Community Discussion: RaineAshford

Posting Issues, Announcements and Membership Matters.

User avatar
Ušušur
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 147
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:02 pm

Re: Community Discussion: RaineAshford

Post by Ušušur »

This discussion is basically a polite way to ban a member that hasn't broke any forum rules. I get the logic behind it, but it does feel a bit like witch hunt. This approach, this public 'let's all say what we have on Raine' just feels wrong, regardless of its original intention.

I don't find her posts offensive nor insulting because I don't take them seriously. People come here all the time and mix popular fiction with serious occult work. Does it bother me? Yes. Should all of them be banned? Absolutely not.

If you're counting votes, my vote is that I'm indifferent. Whether she stays or not, it won't affect my personal experience on these boards. Whether she's dangerous for others (for example, new members), I don't know. She might be. But then again, lots of stuff written here can be dangerous if it's practiced without proper understanding or training.

Raine - you believe you're God. That means you couldn't care less if you get banned here, right?

User avatar
Desecrated
Benefactor
Benefactor
Posts: 3223
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:50 pm
Location: The north

Re: Community Discussion: RaineAshford

Post by Desecrated »

RaineAshford wrote: If UFO sightings make me crazy, maybe you shouldn't be on an occultforum. It looked like a Borg Tactical Cube and I'm not lying. It was about 2 blocks away from me and low to the ground.
There is a world of difference between "I've seen the borgs" and "I've seen something that looked like the borgs"

User avatar
Maya The Generator
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 382
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:26 am

Re: Community Discussion: RaineAshford

Post by Maya The Generator »

Desecrated wrote:
Stukov wrote:I've decided to have a public discussion with the OF community about the member RaineAshford. Since this is an open topic RaineAshford is able to see and participate, please remember to not personally attack other members, or put them down.
This is just fucking horrible. You can't drag a member out in front of the forum and just hang them there.
They were trying to do something, it did not work. They had several aproaches, it still did not work. Amount of complaints grows and still nothing changes.

I think that is better moderators stood up and are prepared to take responsibility for this action and actually try to think of some solution than brush it under the carpet and stay away from it, ignoring all this mess.

What would you do?

Because I had no idea what to do.

Ahh, and if you find it so fckn horrible then why you participate in all that the way you did? You roasted her in previous post.
Illusion is the first of the pleasures.
The bomb of entropic chaos.
If some assholes levels a twelve gauge your way, you drain him, skin him and bash in his skull. Self-preservation is vital part of humanity after all. My favorite part, in fact
My mind is telling me NOOO but my BODY, MY BODY is telling me YEAS

User avatar
Rin
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 1198
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:21 pm

Re: Community Discussion: RaineAshford

Post by Rin »

Ušušur wrote:This discussion is basically a polite way to ban a member that hasn't broke any forum rules. I get the logic behind it, but it does feel a bit like witch hunt. This approach, this public 'let's all say what we have on Raine' just feels wrong, regardless of its original intention.

I don't find her posts offensive nor insulting because I don't take them seriously. People come here all the time and mix popular fiction with serious occult work. Does it bother me? Yes. Should all of them be banned? Absolutely not.

If you're counting votes, my vote is that I'm indifferent. Whether she stays or not, it won't affect my personal experience on these boards. Whether she's dangerous for others (for example, new members), I don't know. She might be. But then again, lots of stuff written here can be dangerous if it's practiced without proper understanding or training.
It might be framed within the case of a specific individual, but I think a larger issue here is at hand, and that is whether people who are quite obviously psychotic should be active members of this forum. As this forum exists for the purpose of the people who use it (or will use it in the future), I don't think it's necessarily unfair to pose this issue to the community at large, although it could have been done in more generalized terms instead of focusing on a specific individual.

Personally I originally intended to withhold from replying in public, just as I skim the posts made by members who are obviously writing from a place of deep detachment from reality (which, I have to admit, makes me much less inclined to want to spend time here, and I'm sure it has the same effect on others), but when it seemed that the issue of obvious psychosis was being tiptoed around, I felt it needed to be part of the conversation. Raine's problem isn't his(?) personality, it's a severe mental illness. And that's tragic, because it isn't his fault, but that doesn't mean we should ignore the effect it has on this community.
"The path of the Sage is called
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"

- DDJ, Verse 27

"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett

User avatar
Maya The Generator
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 382
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:26 am

Re: Community Discussion: RaineAshford

Post by Maya The Generator »

Ušušur wrote:This discussion is basically a polite way to ban a member that hasn't broke any forum rules. I get the logic behind it, but it does feel a bit like witch hunt. This approach, this public 'let's all say what we have on Raine' just feels wrong, regardless of its original intention.

I don't find her posts offensive nor insulting because I don't take them seriously. People come here all the time and mix popular fiction with serious occult work. Does it bother me? Yes. Should all of them be banned? Absolutely not.
I thought we are trying to show each other our feelings about it to make clear why mess start to pile up.

I think we can end all of that with happy ending, while Reine stays here and continues to post and others are not mad at her. But something must be changed, I do not know what thou.

Sorry :(
Illusion is the first of the pleasures.
The bomb of entropic chaos.
If some assholes levels a twelve gauge your way, you drain him, skin him and bash in his skull. Self-preservation is vital part of humanity after all. My favorite part, in fact
My mind is telling me NOOO but my BODY, MY BODY is telling me YEAS

User avatar
the_spiral
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 577
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:46 pm
Location: svadhisthana chakra
Contact:

Re: Community Discussion: RaineAshford

Post by the_spiral »

Ušušur wrote:This discussion is basically a polite way to ban a member that hasn't broke any forum rules. I get the logic behind it, but it does feel a bit like witch hunt. This approach, this public 'let's all say what we have on Raine' just feels wrong, regardless of its original intention
I'd argue her needlessly inflammatory posts calling people "plebs" and "sheep", trying to start roasts, and declaring everyone else beneath her supreme wisdom does break forum rules by insulting other members. But turning it into a community discussion assessing her worthiness to be here feels like a pile-on. I think she should be treated like any other member: delete her posts that are reported and deemed by admins to be insulting and/or trolling, and give her infractions. If she continues, ban her.

As for discussions of her mental state, I'm not her psychiatrist and don't feel qualified to weigh in on that. I rarely read or respond to her posts since they make little sense and hold no interest for me, but it's not a problem to avoid them.
"Follow the path of the radiant life force as she flashes upward like lightning through your body." - Vijanabhairava Tantra

User avatar
Sypheara
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 518
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 5:44 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Community Discussion: RaineAshford

Post by Sypheara »

For me this is a multifaceted issue.

My own take on this thread is that it was necessary. The only alternative would have been a ban or to moderate / silence a member without them having a say in the matter. The fact they are even given that chance is a testament to the site itself, most places would have simply removed Raine for being disruptive with a simple, single sentence on a ban message.

My personal take on Raine is that she has had experiences, and a connection, clouded by extreme white noise from other entities / her experiences/ and never grounding herself. This has developed her current attitude and approach which is not conducive to the forum boards, despite some of her threads being of interest.

As other members say her threads are a 'drain to read'. As an occultist and practicing witch this rings large alarm bells for me, as there is an obvious reason as to why. This is because her energy to me feels very erratic, even in some cases parasitic. This causes me a lot of concern for her. This on its own however is not enough to ban someone unless it becomes a threat which it has not.

My advice to the forum admins would be to treat her insults and in some cases aggressive posts as breaking of the rules to do with insulting other members, and issue infractions when they happen. If we look at a similar member who posts 'wild' UPG to some people, Powessy, we see an approach which is far healthier and doesn't disrupt the community because of how he approaches things. Different symbols, terminology, do not in themselves cause the issue. Its the sheer aggressiveness that is the main issue here and the unwillingness to explain experiences or talk about them and simply posting endless statements that leave no room for healthy discussion. This is very harmful to the boards and causes her posts to bring no added quality to them.

I think the above approach would give Raine a chance to continue posting in a fair manner. I don't think new members would be put off nor lead 'astray' by Raine because her posting style is not conducive to trying any of her advice..

However the fact we are even having this discussion is quite serious. And the admins need to think very carefully if Raine would actually be able to take a hold of this chance or not but that is for them to decide, not the community, based on the board rules.

If you are readnig this Raine I hope that you are able to integrate more successfully, and can slow down your practice for the good of your own health.
'Flores noctis sumus atque alas pandimus, In profundis tenebrarum.'
Feel free to visit my blog at http://www.theluciferianrevolution.com
(admin approved link)

User avatar
Hadit
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:09 am

Re: Community Discussion: RaineAshford

Post by Hadit »

I agree the member in question is certainly out there, and I think this thread makes the forum look way worse than she ever could. Shit, this barely happens on reddit subs.
Beloved of Set

User avatar
Desecrated
Benefactor
Benefactor
Posts: 3223
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:50 pm
Location: The north

Re: Community Discussion: RaineAshford

Post by Desecrated »

Maya The Generator wrote:

Ahh, and if you find it so fckn horrible then why you participate in all that the way you did? You roasted her in previous post.
Because I'm a member and not a mod. We operate differently. Mods are suppose to do their job behind closed doors as to not cause shitstorms and flamewars.

User avatar
Desecrated
Benefactor
Benefactor
Posts: 3223
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:50 pm
Location: The north

Re: Community Discussion: RaineAshford

Post by Desecrated »

Ušušur wrote:a member that hasn't broke any forum rules.
She has insulted several forum members.
People have been banned for a lot less.

User avatar
RoseRed
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 1658
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:40 pm

Re: Community Discussion: RaineAshford

Post by RoseRed »

2 long posts lost. Last time I'm trying.

D, I'm 180 degrees out from u. This is an intervention not a shitstorm. It's rare to see admins care enough about a young witch in crisis to take it to this level. Thank you, admin 's and mods, for knowing you'd eat shit for this and doing it anyway to try to help someone in desperate need.

And people bitch about us oldtimers when they have no idea what's playing out in front of them.
When my wings get tired I grab my broom.

User avatar
Stukov
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 1093
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:23 pm

Re: Community Discussion: RaineAshford

Post by Stukov »

I thank you all for your thoughts and words. I do very much consider everything you said about Raine and the method in which I am bringing this up. I have to ultimately make a decision that affects Raine and the whole community, and I don't want anything to think the purpose of this discussion was to politely absolve myself of that responsibility and leave it up to a vote among members. Since any decision made affects everyone, I feel it is only fair that everyone have an opportunity to discuss the matter and to do so openly, because this isn't just about Raine, its about how we as a community and administration deal with these types of questions. And I am someone who will take every opportunity afforded to understand other perspectives and ideas before making a decision.

The site staff can start cracking down on every time there is a complaint about what someone feels is insulting regarding what Raine has said, but as I've explained to others often times by the time I have arrived to see the complaint and the thread the insults have gone both ways. I am not sure if giving out infractions to everyone all the time will ultimately solve this issue, to me it seems like a band aide to a larger issue. However, if you feel differently please expound so I can understand you, as I may be wrong.

After reading some of the posts last night and sleeping on it, I am thinking about the work I do in my day to day life. I am someone who, for simplicity sake, does work to accomplish a mission and enforce rules. It is easy to get pedantic over every SOP, apply them without any thought, and "just follow the rules". However, my position has led me to understand that every time you enforce a rule, you have to consider the bigger picture, and ask yourself does application of this rule help accomplish the mission? If the rule doesn't, then there is no point in enforcing them.

So the question I would like to further ask of everyone here, is what do you feel our mission or purpose is here for this board? I know I have shared my feelings on it a little bit from time to time, but I would like to hear what you guys, including Raine think why this board exists? Why are the rules that are present are in place? Is there anything about the application or non-application of rules you feel goes against our purpose here?
I am the Watcher.
I am the Wanderer.
I am the Whisper.
I am the Warden.
I am the Weaver.

User avatar
Stukov
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 1093
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:23 pm

Re: Community Discussion: RaineAshford

Post by Stukov »

Hadit wrote:I agree the member in question is certainly out there, and I think this thread makes the forum look way worse than she ever could. Shit, this barely happens on reddit subs.
Reddit deletes and bans/shadow bans a great deal of people. Mods can do whatever they want, whenever they want, explain nothing, and sweep everything under a rug so no one ever notices. This could easily be done here, but I don't often find it fair.

I do very much consider what you and others have said about me creating this thread and as I said in my other post I will consider the criticism for how I handle things in the future.

The only response I would say as I and the rest of the staff have tried handling this behind closed doors and it has not solved the issue. I have not yet banned anyone since I have become a mod or admin on this site (except bots, which I don't believe anyone would count) and if I am going to do so, I will do whatever due diligence I can. I have to judge everyone's words here all the time and make a judgement on how to handle it, but my decisions are beholden to the community and I am judged on my judgements. I do want to know and consider what that is.
I am the Watcher.
I am the Wanderer.
I am the Whisper.
I am the Warden.
I am the Weaver.

User avatar
RaineAshford
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 330
Joined: Fri May 29, 2015 5:01 pm

Re: Community Discussion: RaineAshford

Post by RaineAshford »

The other Gods were giving me a spiritual experience and a bunch of demons started misleading me is what I gather.
_______________________________________________

Image

User avatar
Hadit
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:09 am

Re: Community Discussion: RaineAshford

Post by Hadit »

The member insulted a mod publicly, in a sarcastic manner and with no respect, in a thread made by said mod about said member's behaviors. What's the question?
Beloved of Set

User avatar
RoseRed
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 1658
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:40 pm

Re: Community Discussion: RaineAshford

Post by RoseRed »

That's a hell of a point.

She publicly declared her answer in her last post. I'm washing my hands of.This stupidity.

Rain, I hope u don't fuck up too bad before you come back to.reality.
When my wings get tired I grab my broom.

User avatar
Desecrated
Benefactor
Benefactor
Posts: 3223
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:50 pm
Location: The north

Re: Community Discussion: RaineAshford

Post by Desecrated »

Stukov wrote: So the question I would like to further ask of everyone here, is what do you feel our mission or purpose is here for this board? I know I have shared my feelings on it a little bit from time to time, but I would like to hear what you guys, including Raine think why this board exists? Why are the rules that are present are in place? Is there anything about the application or non-application of rules you feel goes against our purpose here?
The mods exists to keep spam, trolls and other crap away from the forum so that the members can discuss in an orderly fashion.

Members who disturb that orderly fashion gets temporarily banned.

The rules exists so that this place don't turn into 4 chan.

User avatar
Desecrated
Benefactor
Benefactor
Posts: 3223
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:50 pm
Location: The north

Re: Community Discussion: RaineAshford

Post by Desecrated »

Look, what we have here is this.

We are a classsroom. The mods are teachers, we are student.
One student has been making a lot of noise and the other students have gone to the teacher and said, we can't study because of this person, she is disturbing us.
Instead of the teacher talking to the student in question privately and resolving this privately, you've put the student in front of the class and asked all the students to say what they think a bout her.
It's now turned into a bullying session.

Either, remove the individual posts when members complain about them but let the poster stay, or remove the person from the classroom for a period of time to see if that solves the problem.

User avatar
magari
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 824
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:43 am
Location: Colorado

Re: Community Discussion: RaineAshford

Post by magari »

This whole forum has turned into a joke.

User avatar
Stukov
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 1093
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:23 pm

Re: Community Discussion: RaineAshford

Post by Stukov »

magari wrote:This whole forum has turned into a joke.
Would you care to be more specific? So I understand what you think needs to be addressed.
I am the Watcher.
I am the Wanderer.
I am the Whisper.
I am the Warden.
I am the Weaver.

User avatar
Caerdon
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:07 pm
Location: St. Catharines, ON

Re: Community Discussion: RaineAshford

Post by Caerdon »

The thing is, I agree with RedRose's assessment of what this thread is intended to be, more of an intervention than anything. That's how I viewed it and how my response to it was.

People should have been saying, in a non aggressive manner, what the source of their complaints have been so that Raine (or the admins) can address them and work on them.

It should never get to the point of a flame war against the person in question. It should be constructive, addressed for improvement, to show concern.

There shouldn't be a question as to whether or not to ban someone, but how to help them and improve upon the community.

It is the reactions of people that set the tone of this and the future of the forum and how things are handled. If people choose care and compassion and genuinely take the opportunity to help, then it can become a boon for everyone for handling issues this way. If people decide to be argumentative and go the flame war route, then it's a failure on everyone here.
Time is but an illusion in perception and is only perceived to pass by at the same moments together for us all... which is, quite frankly, me saying to not expect from me in a timely manner!
-I am but a simple wanderer... Though I may be gone for immeasurable time, always do I return.

User avatar
magari
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 824
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:43 am
Location: Colorado

Re: Community Discussion: RaineAshford

Post by magari »

Stukov wrote:
magari wrote:This whole forum has turned into a joke.
Would you care to be more specific? So I understand what you think needs to be addressed.
Id rather not. I dont think you have the will or the way to do anything about it.

I dont know whats worse. RA 's posts, or this one.

User avatar
Sypheara
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 518
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 5:44 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Community Discussion: RaineAshford

Post by Sypheara »

@Magari

You know where the door is..

@Desecrated

This thread was started with the best of intentions and i dont think anyone here is bullying Raine at all. Everyone here is attempting to be constructive? I cant see what you are reading into peoples posts at all.

There is genuine concern here about someone in the community, and was something that could not be addressed in private as Stukov has already mentioned..

@Stukov

I see this forum as nothing but that. A forum, for debate and discussion, of many different practitioners to come together and discuss their beliefs, and their approaches, and share anything else occult related. That is its sole purpose. Its not here to teach or inform necessarily. Those are side effects, of people sharing their knowledge and the school being set up and are highly valuable, but at the end of the day the forum is nothing more than a community of occult practioners sharing their views, their research and their experiences.

If someone becomes excessively disruptive to the point debate and discussion cannot be had effectively then I do think that some action needs to be taken, but it should give that person as many chances / a clear way to respond and debate their point first. I feel that this thread accomplishes that. My only advice would be regardless of decision this thread is made private and archived into its own section after a decision has been made.

I am personally quite taken aback by the tone of some of those above considering the mods and admins run this forum for free with no reward at all other than pure enjoyment. I personally would not respect someone who has 0 respect for me in turn.
Last edited by Sypheara on Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:52 pm, edited 5 times in total.
'Flores noctis sumus atque alas pandimus, In profundis tenebrarum.'
Feel free to visit my blog at http://www.theluciferianrevolution.com
(admin approved link)

User avatar
Stukov
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 1093
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:23 pm

Re: Community Discussion: RaineAshford

Post by Stukov »

magari wrote:Id rather not. I dont think you have the will or the way to do anything about it.

I dont know whats worse. RA 's posts, or this one.
Alright, well I respect your opinion and should you choose to share it I will consider it.
I am the Watcher.
I am the Wanderer.
I am the Whisper.
I am the Warden.
I am the Weaver.

ulvfdfgtmk
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:18 am

Re: Community Discussion: RaineAshford

Post by ulvfdfgtmk »

Desecrated wrote:Instead of the teacher talking to the student in question privately and resolving this privately, you've put the student in front of the class and asked all the students to say what they think a bout her.
magari wrote:I dont know whats worse. RA 's posts, or this one.
My thoughts exactly.

I´ve read on this thread that some people claim Raine is "psychotic". Has any psychotic person every been cured by the information that he/she is not welcome in his/her current state? If I was the person in question I would probably feel really bad about this thread, despite the fact that it may be here to help the community (me included). I believe that we as a community should hold together and support every individual on here, regardless of what their health state may be. Some people come here and ask for help specifically and some do not. It is my firmest believe however that those who don´t ask for help also do want help; on an unconcious level that is to say. They may not be ready for advice yet but the time will come. If we exclude these members, or even just give them the impression that they are not welcomed, they will turn away and may fall even deeper into the abyss.

Rin argues that newcomers could get a bad first impression if they read one of Raine´s posts, however in my opinion this thread conveys an even worse first impression. Therefor I would say that to not solve the issue at all might even be better then solving it this way. Stukov I understand that you want to create transparency with this thread and this is a good idea, but I believe the negative aspects outweight the positive ones here.

During my, yet pretty short, journey into the occult I already learnt that there are true and false information. Having to read through a few false claims here on this board is no bad thing in my opinion. On the contrary, it promotes critical thinking.

On a sidenode, I personally feel that there are active members who are at least as arrogant as Raine and, on a more subtle level, also act like they too got the whole truth.

Locked

Return to “Site Discussion”