Community Discussion: RaineAshford

[magari]

This is an intervention?

lmao [thumbup]

[Stukov]

I'm going to leave the thread up until later tomorrow, if everyone could answer my question regarding the purpose of this form (like a mission statement), I would be grateful.

[RoseRed]

Somel, sometimes you can get through people. Sometimes not. Besides, I thought you were rowing your majestic boat away from the primordial gators.

For a bunch of random people to get together and try to help, that shouldn't be mocked. We tried to help you too but resistance is futile when people are hellbent on something.

It's obvious that this idea isn't going over well but have you noticed it's the neophytes doing all the whining and bitching? Cutting through the bullshit to the core issue isn't rude, it's expedient. The entire truth? Lol. I'd love to meet him or her.

[RoseRed]

Sorry about the order, was stuck in a dead zone.

It's the coffee shop on the corner down in the village.

[hellebore]

I'm new to the site and one of the least experienced people here. Some members have expressed concern about the impact Raine's approach and UPG might have on newbies so I'm responding about that aspect of the debate.

Raine rarely offers direct advice to newbies and when she does it is so cryptic I honestly can't see anyone being able to act on it. Far riskier to the newbie are plausible, articulate posters who suggest with good intent courses of action that are exposed as fraught with danger when those with greater experience step in. But step in they do, which is a great credit to the forum, and at the end of the day 'caveat emptor'.

Do Raine's posts put people off joining the forum? Some of her theories are quite ... startling on first reading, but it would quickly become apparent that Raine's stance is not representative. In fact the length other members go to to try and engage in proper debate with her is impressive in itself. Even a cursory read shows the forum is not only an excellent place to learn through reading and debate but also unusually tolerant of different viewpoints, skill-levels and emotional states.

Leaving aside the debate about whether this should be dealt with publicly, I agree with the observation that there are few forums which would show so much patience and concern for an individual who is causing considerable upset, even if that upset is an unintentional by-product of the poster's state of mind. And that surely is more likely to encourage than discourage potential new members.

[RaineAshford]

This is an intervention?

lmao [thumbup]

Not my first. Lol.

[RaineAshford]

I'm going to leave the thread up until later tomorrow, if everyone could answer my question regarding the purpose of this form (like a mission statement), I would be grateful.

Mission: Hypotheticals on the Occult[Magick/Supernatural] for Research
(New topics and concepts broaden the mind and help me solve more of existences riddles and physics and develop new concepts)

[Hadit]

I've sadly always found this forum lacking, though I never thought we'd reach this. It's because of this I never used to log on. The very atmosphere invites tin foil hat type people to talk about the knowledge of the Greys. Now I don't know what's up with Raine, but some of my greatest inspiration comes from pretty crazy shit, like ONA and stuff like that, so I really appreciate anything to some degree. That said, there are ways to tell if a certain member, after time, is serious or not in adding to the forum. Sure I've linked to my (old and abandoned) WordPress, but not every single thing I post is a rambling, arrogant, hateful, and when sometimes childish assault on the human mind based off of my "order". That being said (again), I can just ignore such a person, and the fact that there's no ignore option here is baffling.

That's my advice, add an ignore feature where you can see NOTHING an ignored member posts or quotes of yours.

[EEHC]

I am a new member here but I have followed the forum for quite some time now, including Raine Ashford' posts. Raine does not make any sense to me. Some of the stuffs she posts doesn't seem coherent at all and as anyone who know a bit about mental illness would acknowledge; incoherent and illogical thoughts, bizarre speech and delusions are usually a strong indicator of schizophrenia. I believe it to be the case for Raine Ashford and that she needs a psychological evaluation ASAP. This is not meant as an insult to her intelligence or anything like that, it's just and honest assessment. Mental illness is a reality and there are treatments for it.

That's just my 2Cents. People can make whatever they want of this message but I felt I had enough information to comment on the issue.

PS: Sorry for my english.

[RaineAshford]

I work with the Grey's and Angels to channel information for a Science Company we're working on together, I'm using occultforum for discussion on the concepts they give me, and to contradict any misinformation from demon interceptors.

Demons are trying to keep us primitive and turn us into animals. While the Grey's and Angels behind their shields are trying the most they can to liberate us and help us develop our own technology.

[RoseRed]

So we should b collecting pay checks then.

[Stukov]

Even though I am admin, I don't have the ability to add a function such as ignore. Those types of things fall under the site owner Vashta. The old theme is still partially broken and I'm still butt hurt over that, but there isn't anything I can do to change that.

[RaineAshford]

So we should b collecting pay checks then.

Fffff if they can get one shred of useful knowledge to me I'll hire all of ya. Black Bible is the most I've gotten so far.

http://www.docdroid.net/0C2XWgm/blackbible.pdf.html

And better aerodynamics for Unmanned Fighter Jets.

[Ušušur]

So the question I would like to further ask of everyone here, is what do you feel our mission or purpose is here for this board? I know I have shared my feelings on it a little bit from time to time, but I would like to hear what you guys, including Raine think why this board exists?

Even though this is 'just a forum', purpose should be knowledge. Encouraging, helping, advising, leading, criticizing, discussing etc. As Desecrated mentioned, it's similar to school, and teachers aren't necessarily only mods but some other members as well. I think this board exists to connect people of similar thinking and help - help is a key word here - to everyone in their individual spiritual/occult growth. I see that as the purpose of this board.

Why are the rules that are present are in place?

As with any community, there need to be rules. Without rules, there wouldn't be community. It would be anarchy, chaos. Some rules are ok with me, some are not. The fact someone remains around here means he/she accepted those rules. So rules are necessary.

Is there anything about the application or non-application of rules you feel goes against our purpose here?

In this particular case, no.

You could've just banned Raine and that's it. You've actually went out to have a dialogue with entire forum. Not monologue - dialogue, you're replying and taking into account what everyone wrote. I think you're doing a good job here, even though I don't feel comfortable with the way how all this turned out. I hope I make myself clear.

[Haelos]

All of the important people are here, so I may as well make a comment on this thread as well.


To those complaining about this thread, specifically Desecrated and Magari: You both have your fair share of infractions. I'm sure your opinions stem from the fact that you don't wish for this type of action to be taken against you. This was needed.

As you very clearly seem to have missed several times, WORKING IN PRIVATE DID NOT SOLVE THE ISSUE.
I can't count how many times that's been said here.

To almost everyone else, you did get a little presumptuous, and there was hint of attack going on, but not anything as insulting as even half of what Raine has posted. It's like Raine goes out of their way to post shit that makes serious occultists loose their cool.

This thread was something that was needed, but people take a mile when they're given a centimeter.

And finally, to Raine: You should consider yourself the luckiest person alive to have an entire thread dedicated to whether or not we should keep you as part of the community. You don't respect this, you insult others, and you've even spoken negatively towards the moderators, so it's my opinion that you should be banned from the community and not allowed to return.

Your threads have merit, I can give you that. But that's about all I can give. You're unintelligible, you mistake reality for fiction, and you're obviously not as powerful as you come off. Otherwise, none of these things would be happening against you.

We're the plebeian trash, and yet you're the one who's constantly attacked? Doesn't make sense. I think you require some deep introspection, and if you manage to remain part of this community, you should thank the moderators and the members for being so kind.



As a final side-note: Several people have left the forum because of Raine. Myself included.
I've tried recommending this site to new people from other communities, but when Raine posts on their threads with her/his bullshit spam, they usually come to me complaining and questioning the content.

So, yes, @Stukov, and everyone else. Raine is a problem for new members.

I miss when I could get a reliable answer within the first two posts of my thread, and a hearty discussion from three onward. Now, most threads start with a discredit, follow with an insult, and end on an argument. This might as well be reddit, with how people handle discussions here these days.

To the few of you who know who you are, keep on being the dudes you are.

[RaineAshford]

>serious occultists loosing their cool
Serious occultists have developed zen. If you're loosing your cool I'm revealing the demons possessing you. And you owe me.

[Caerdon]

>serious occultists loosing their cool
Serious occultists have developed zen. If you're loosing your cool I'm revealing the demons possessing you. And you owe me.

Serious occultists have developed control. But they still have emotions and not a small amount of pride, and gains frightening small amount of patients for certain things that are deemed detrimental

[Maya The Generator]

@Stukov:

When I first showed here I meet a lot of kind people. Talked with bunch of them and thought it would be nice place to learn few things. Some of them even made me understand things I tried to resolve myself for a long time. I like it here, I like people around this place. They have many interesting things to say. Thats how I feel about this place, no mission.

[Shinichi]

The mission statement of OF should be to serve as a place of gathering. This is the French Cafe of the Online Occult Community, the place where people come to sit down, have a chat, have a drink, share some thoughts and sometimes get into some serious debate. There will be regulars, there will be folks who come and go. There will be some loud and rude folk, and there will be those who are always really nice and relaxed. But the place itself, the Cafe, the forum, that does not change itself as much as the people who pass through it change its ambiance.

Stukov, you as Administrator are the Manager of this Cafe. You are responsible for what overall ambiance is created, for making sure the place stays tidy, for ensuring that your patrons have a nice place to gather and do their thing.

How exactly you do this is something that your patrons cannot decide for you, because there is too much variety among them. The Administration, including both you and everyone else, has to decide what kind of Cafe you want this to be and how you are going to both create and maintain that. Much as I wish I could make this easier for you, I cannot, nor can anyone else posting in this thread. This is the burden of leadership, and truly, you have my empathy.



~:Shin:~

[Caerdon]

The mission statement of OF should be to serve as a place of gathering. This is the French Cafe of the Online Occult Community, the place where people come to sit down, have a chat, have a drink, share some thoughts and sometimes get into some serious debate. There will be regulars, there will be folks who come and go. There will be some loud and rude folk, and there will be those who are always really nice and relaxed. But the place itself, the Cafe, the forum, that does not change itself as much as the people who pass through it change its ambiance.

Stukov, you as Administrator are the Manager of this Cafe. You are responsible for what overall ambiance is created, for making sure the place stays tidy, for ensuring that your patrons have a nice place to gather and do their thing.

How exactly you do this is something that your patrons cannot decide for you, because there is too much variety among them. The Administration, including both you and everyone else, has to decide what kind of Cafe you want this to be and how you are going to both create and maintain that. Much as I wish I could make this easier for you, I cannot, nor can anyone else posting in this thread. This is the burden of leadership, and truly, you have my empathy.



~:Shin:~

Well... Damn. I don't think anyone could sum up the situation for this better than that for the direction of the forum overall than that. [pray]

[RoseRed]

The coffee Shoppe down in the village. He does paint a beautiful image of it. I see comfy deep chairs and books to the ceiling with sliding ladders.

[Nahemah]

We don't ban people for 'reality disengagement' issues.

I don't like this topic being public at all, but in the spirit of honesty: several attempts have been made to deal with the matter behind closed doors and in as much confidence as possible.

Personally, I would have banned Raine some time ago and not given it another moments thought afterwards. Then there's this Gem:

http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 47&t=38418

Yeh, prolly banworthy, but we're not that uptight about her yet.

I do call shenanigans, though and I think she's a troll but the line of doubt for the trolling is ambigious here, in others eyes, so she's had grace according to due diligence, so far.

Raine has been infracted previously, she has broken rules. Just pointing out.

Ahem, I don't tend to ban over personal insults in the pm system though, so meh...and the name calling and posturing in this thread is just plain silly, so that too.

I am weirded out by this discussion. It feels bad, like a public spectacle.

However, I do understand why Stukov has raised the matter here and I have his back on that.

We'd like honest engagement, so here it is. Still feels strange though.



I

[RaineAshford]

A spell I want everyone to know. From a witch to occultforum.


When white only trusts itself cast the abyss to contradict the blocks[evil]. Use white to absorb knowledge and ability that is worthy[valuable to your magick]. Then green omnipresently to apply your pure ideals.

[Cybernetic_Jazz]

I'd agree with everyone who's said this is a multifaceted issue.

First there's the pragmatic understanding of occult development - that if it spits out a long hall of mirrors it can be quite convincing to certain people and if that weren't a statistic there'd be no public service announcement in the occult community about illusions in the astral light. If such illusions weren't incredibly convincing there probably wouldn't be enough hypochondriacs and circular thinkers alone to make it an issue.

I hope it would not be uncouth to bring up another member as an example of something like this happening but I think it's important to have this in perspective and it's a good analogue. There is (or was) a certain gentleman here who spoke quite authentically on something like angelic beings burdened down by billions of smaller parasitic entities, gave them a name coined by him and only him (to look up the term online yields his screen name at every turn), and in his life it's a bit like each of his own braincells is it's own entity and... if I understand this right... those cells and their craving for incarnation and matter are what bring him here, that he experiences his own neurological activity at an exquisite intensity and feels like his central nervous system is something like a Jacob's ladder for these parasitic entities running up and down it. I can very easily see what kinds of channels of subconscious data a person could tune into in order to make such a reality incredibly compelling. In truth I think that mirrors a particular reality - we are made of trillions of cells and their well being does pin us to matter! Making a cosmology of is something however that no one else that I'm aware of has done because that experience wasn't experienced quite as narrowly or exclusively by other people as he seemed to have experienced it.

The challenge with this is the same challenge of the person who's come to firmly believe that the Rothschilds, Illuminati, Priory of Psion rule everything - ie. it's incredibly compelling when you look at the data in isolation, just like there's quite a few people who've gotten as occult as we have - with very candid experiences, who have every reason to believe that it's Jesus in their life, that they're fighting the powers of the Beast and Whore of Babylon, and some of them are incredibly good researchers; a certain gentleman in Detroit comes to mind as one of the more recent people I listened to on Youtube who made me think twice (washing that down with some Robert Bruce helped settle the matter).

I think this is why historically those who've really sought esoteric knowledge have been few, far between, of a particular quality and type of maturity level, and it's the Freemasonic kind of mentality that I'm thinking of. You see the right kind of discipline and poise in the writings of someone like Dione Fortune, you see it also in her predecessors W.E. Butler and Delores Ashcroft-Nowicki. In Peregrin Wildoak's type of presentation I see it as well. Even in modern times it's people who by and large may have worked through some very strict exoteric religious contexts of thought, or who simply just knew from enough life experience that this world takes an incredible amount of ciritical thinking to be successful and that they'd need to be as analytical and strict with themselves in occult development as they would if they were pursuing an engineering degree, becoming a medical doctor or surgeon, or similar self-discipline to what they'd need if they were pursuing salvation by a very strict exoteric framework or a Rene Guenon type of occultism. That strictness and attention to detail that they'd put on in any of those situations they focus on their occult development. That's something that I think people who start younger may have had the twists and turns necessary to see, others not so much.

MP Hall in one or two of his lectures, particularly I think in his Secret Powers and Why We Should Not Use Them, talks about the scenario of a certain mania that many people had when they opened the gated of the astral. They'd be met by highly important beings, be walked on toward initiation after initiation, their egoes would run higher and higher, somewhere it could get so incongruous with their own lives that they'd get the impression that it was a deception and about that moment it would lurch over the top of the hill, be a downward spiral from there, and they'd believe that they were under demonic attack.

I think we need to keep in mind at all times that we're playing with our own melons/gullivers here and that the kaleidoscopes that result can have us very well slicing and dicing very true layers of reality which, without balancing contexts, can destroy a person's sanity. It's rich and rewarding work but like mountain-climbing it can be very dangerous. I think this also might sell me on why Kabbalists typically kept the 'Secret Doctrine of Israel' for men over 40 who were parents (for women I'm sure this would apply just as well). In youth brain structure is still settling, still growing, and any divergence in one direction or another has highly significant impact. Also dealing with the world in it's raw, boring, tedious, mundane, and often times concrete and heartless materialistic form breeds in the kinds of objective and pragmatic habits in thinking tha help act as a bulwark against this kind of thing.


I hope I didn't theorize on way too much about that. To finally try and deliver some advice out of everything I just said - I'd really recommend that Raine try on some of the literature by people like Dione Fortune or W.E. Butler, listen to some MP Hall, ie. really try to balance herself out by reaching out and touching the writings and speeches/lectures of some of the more pragmatic and philosophically rigorous/disciplined occultists and mystics. I don't know if I'd recommend Martinist work because it might get TOO dry (albeit Meditations on the Tarot is still a baddass read hands down). I think she needs to see the ultimate issues angle of what she's dealing with, the practical nuts and bolts of it in terms of what it's leading toward - ie. human evolution through regenerating the personality, developing virtues and integrities, learning and living the cosmic laws the way physicists and chemistry follow the known chemical reactions, mathematics, and the of their professions at their work. I got introduced to Joseph J Weed's writings and she'd likely benefit from reading him for similar reasons.

I'm sorry if that might have sounded like a bit of a partisan Hermetic sales-pitch but I think taking in the old-school disciplined side of this and developing an understanding and appreciation for that could help her balance this back out just by checking some of her current processes with a few better habits in analysis. Libertinism has its time and place I think and it's best application are people in the opposite extreme whose ToL's are being eaten by a tyranny in Hod or people who hide from life behind discipline to where they use it as a crutch thus needing challenges in the opposite direction to head back toward balanced development.

[magari]

Stukov,

Are you saying the individual really in charge of this whole thing isn't engaged enough to fix a theme?