Shamen

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Saric

Greetings,

I have a high interest in Shamanism(if that wording is correct) and wish to either, become a Shaman or integrate it into my own for of way of life/religion. Is there anyone here who can help me to know more about Shamen and/or advise me where to start?

Thanks,
Saric

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Centrix

I can't.

But Mircea Eliade's classical work Shamanism can.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: destructive_metaphysician

i would also recommend the book "the way of the shaman" by michael harner.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Saric

Thanks a lot this really helps

Saric

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Jenfucius

Saric
If your into traditional stuff. You also might want to also stay away from "plastic shamans" types. Those who are pretending to be "shamans" with false credentials.
If you want New Age type of shaman theres plenty of those around.
Wish you luck with your choices.
Research as much as you can.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Saric

[QUOTE=Jenfucius;373452]Saric
If your into traditional stuff. You also might want to also stay away from "plastic shamans" types. Those who are pretending to be "shamans" with false credentials.
If you want New Age type of shaman theres plenty of those around.
Wish you luck with your choices.
Research as much as you can.[/QUOTE]

Thank you Jenfuncius.

I am looking for some sort of Shamanic sect but there seems to be none of the old traditions around.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: ooga_booga

To echo some of the views expressed above, I would be wary of people who describe themselves as shamen. They are almost always not. Additionally a lot of people I meet get the impression that you have to travel to Tibet or Mongolia or somewhere equally exotic to learn about shamanism. This is not the case, it is about inner change rather than travel. I would do some reading, mircea eliade is excellent on this topic. Also Shamanic practices are not exclusively used in shamanism, its a little bit more blurred than you may initially think.
I would also recomend 5 grams of dried cubensis mushrooms in an entirely darkened room to get a flavour of the current.

Hope this is of some help and good luck on your quest.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Uni_Verse

Start dancing.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Venefica

Study, read books, if you can find some practicing shamans speak with them, go out in nature and communicate with it, for nature will be a better teacher on how to be a shaman than any book can.

[Shaam]

Michael Harner's, "The Way of the Shaman" is alright but is really new age. It deals with 'core' shamanism, and a lot of what he says and teaches is kinda ok, but he also tends to go off with his own ideas, and that's where I lose interest.

Shamanism is an earth religion. Some consider it a 'dark' path, which it really isn't. Shamanism is unlike other paths...you don't practice it when you want to. It requires total dedication, commitment and a life change. Basically you live and breathe this path, there is no you without your path and no path without you. I've been walking a shamanic path for over 45 years. It is not always easy, but it is very rewarding. Balance is what counts. You use what you need to restore the balance.

There's much more, and I will try to put more in here.

The first thing to do is connect with the earth mother. Sit, listen and learn.

[Nahemah]

Ask several Shamanic practitioners and you'll get as many different answers as people you ask.Lol.

I dislike 'Harnerism' too.Big profits to be had in selling that stuff.

I do not think it is a religion at all.It is a Spiritual bondage,a gift or curse of the soul.Sometimes both at once.Lol.The Shaman is bound to serve his/her tribe,it's like a job you can't retire from.

If you have no tribe,one will be found for you.Sounds weird,but it means that folk who need your help will come to you anyway,even before you understand why they are drawn to you.We don't live as we used to,so integrating the Shamanic self into the modern world around us can be difficult.Spirit exists even among concrete and electrical wiring,lol,so it 's a matter of staying open to change and exploring the Urban jungle as well as the wilderness beyond.

Carl Jung,'man and his symbols' is a good read.Shamanism integrates mind and magick,rhyme and reason.There is no one 'right way' only the path you carve yourself.

[Venefica]

I guess it depends on how you define the word religion. For me religion is being Spiritual, to allow the Spiritual an important place in one's life, and if one look at it that way then Shamanism is definitely a religion.

[Shaam]

It is more a Spiritual 'way of life' than a religion.

I don't consider it bondage, though, by any means. This path chose me pretty much at birth.....and I freely dedicated myself to walk it. It's my life, my very breath. I have a responsibility to my people. Your people are everywhere, and your 'people family, I guess you could say, just keeps growing.

And, yes, you have to walk in 2 worlds....as well as being a bridge between modern and old worlds too. It all comes into play.

[xcb]

I've never understood why people are so scared of The R Word.

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

How is that any different than what 99% of people mean when they say "spiritual"?

[Shaam]

Well, you can also be 'religious' about brushing your teeth every day, washing your car every Saturday, going to the gym 3 times a week. Religious about going to church...but that doesn't mean you, yourself, have a pinhead of belief in it...it is just something you do.

I think the delineation between religion and spirituality was basically indentified.....as having a reason for why you do something. It rises above the mundane. People have gotten so they assume 'religion' means' ....'sheeple'.......Spirituality means....Individual.

JMO and thots...

[xcb]

I don't deny that people often put meanings onto words that don't have anything to do with what the word means, but I do think it's funny that a orthodox Catholic parishoner is necessarily religious while an orthodox Shaman would be necessarily spiritual, with the subtext being that Catholics are sheep while Shamans are enlightened.

I think a better concept would be something along the lines of whether or not the person is involved in a critical examination of their lives and goals.

[Shaam]

I don't deny that people often put meanings onto words that don't have anything to do with what the word means, but I do think it's funny that a orthodox Catholic parishoner is necessarily religious while an orthodox Shaman would be necessarily spiritual, with the subtext being that Catholics are sheep while Shamans are enlightened.

I think a better concept would be something along the lines of whether or not the person is involved in a critical examination of their lives and goals.

I believe we'd better leave the word 'orthodox' out of it....lol. I gather you are using it in terms of 'absolute' doctrine....which doesn't apply in spirituality or in the shamanic paths.

I've never heard of Orthodox Catholic either. Have heard of Russian Orthodox.

I never implicated in my previous post any mention of 'catholic'. I was using the 'words' religious and spiritual. How you came by your interpretation of that....I'm not really sure...lol.

I do agree with the premise of.......if "the person is involved in a critical examination of their lives and goals", then they would personally be more spiritual....meaning they would see a reason, beyond the mundane, to reach beyond themselves and allow themselves to explore those things that spoke to their hearts.

[xcb]

I was simply using the word orthodox to mean following certain established traditions and/or beliefs as regards an individual's understanding of ultimate reality.

I don't believe for a moment that shamanic paths don't have some sort of generalized orthodoxy behind them. I would find it very hard to believe, for example, that any shamans wouldn't value nature as some deeply important part of their understanding of ultimate reality. If we can take it for granted, then, that shamans have some sort of underlying belief structure - the Earth/nature is meant to be venerated - then we've established some sort of orthodoxy. One, I might add, that is fairly absolutist in its intents and aims. It's possible that I'm speaking out of pig ignorance, of course, and that there are a large number of shamans out there who find the Earth/nature to be completely irrelevant when it comes to religious matters. If this is the case, I'd be very interested in hearing more about them.

[Shaam]

Generalized orthodoxy, then yes....certainly.

Earth/Nature in venerated.....the earth mother is adept at teaching you everything you could ever want to know...and much more. This is the root of the spirituality. (Just to clarify,...when I speak of the earth mother and nature..I am also referring to all surrounding her as well..not just in the etheric sense)

Those practitioners...who do not base their beliefs on the earthmother/nature (known as the roots to me), are practicing something, but nothing to do with a shamanic path. I get a little frustrated too with how the word(s) shamanic/shaman/shamanism are bandied around by those trying to use it as a buzz word as a means of making a quick buck. (don't get me started on that...lol)

[xcb]

Well that's all I'm saying, then. Just as Christians can share some underlying belief (God, Jesus, etc.) and still manage to be critical of their own tradition, so too does it seem possible that shamans could hold onto their underlying belief (the Earth Mother is awesome), without giving it a second thought.

In that sense, shamanism has the possibility to be "religious" in the same way that Catholicism has the possibility to be "spiritual".

All I'd add is that it seems kinda silly to avoid The R Word when it's a perfectly good word that only starts to be awful when putting your own preconditioned notions of awfulness onto it. As a word, it describes Shamanism as much as it does Catholicism.

[Shaam]

Well, any faith/religion/path/belief system...can have the 'underlying belief' of the original/base/root aspect, but that doesn't mean they incorporate it into their daily lives either.

It takes stepping out of our personal comfort zones and exploring what we really believe that raises our spirituality.

[xcb]

That's about the fifth time I've seen you talking about Outside The Comfort Zone being a necessary component of spirituality.

I don't see any necessary reason why this should be the case. Perhaps you could explain it.

EDIT: This post sounds kinda rude and snide, and I didn't mean it to sound that way. Sorry.

[Shaam]

comfort zone means...what you are used to.

When you step outside your comfort zone....you are looking for other experiences...new knowledge that might not be what you are used to.

Analogy would be...you were always used to eating fried potatoes with just salt and pepper. One day you decided to eat a baked potato with all the fixins...took a little getting used to, but you discovered you liked the flavor, so you looked around for more ways to use things.

Discovering your personal spirituality is basically not accepting what people/church...etc..., say as the whole truth or the way it has to be or else. Be willing to allow yourself to learn more about a lot of things, look at the broad perspective, how they speak to your heart, how they work with your beliefs. Explore.

Ya know, you and I have done a pretty good job keeping the site active this afternoon...lol

[xcb]

I think we should get some cut of the advertising revenue.

I do think that you're absolutely right about exploration being a darned good road, but don't you think that after a while most people find a niche that works and settle down a bit? Maybe it's because of the rather strange last decade that I've had, but I'm really just sick and tired of exploring everything. Some things, for example, I've just ruled out. Peas, for example. I don't like peas. I don't want to like peas. I see no particularly good reason to learn to like peas.

So while exploration is a very good way of finding new and interesting and better things, doesn't it make sense to stop exploring quite so much once one has found things that work?

And the more I think about it, the more I don't see any advertising. Damn.

[Shaam]

Damn....no advertising...now that sucks...lol.

I agree....after awhile, you do find your niche, and put work into that niche...but that doesn't mean that something can't peak your interest once in awhile you might want to investigate...but you don't consider putting on your backpack and hiking around the world to find it either.

My son hates peas...always has. I used to make him try them when he was young, and he would sneakily spit them in his iced tea glass (colored glasses)...Both my son and daughter used to use that trick for broccoli as well....lol.