K, info on shaman trips.

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Original post: Vindictus

Okay, I'm looking for general information on what I think are referred to as Shaman trips- when someone goes out into the wild for a time in search for knowledge. Does anyone have information on theese? I think the background was australian, but idrk.

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Original post: alacardkane

its generally referred to as a vision quest. and every shamanic system seems to have had them. more known are those of the native americans.

it can be considered dangerous, but only if you are not ready.

basically you go out without anything but a blanket and maybe, maybe some water until you have a vision.

not much else to it.

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Original post: Vindictus

well I was considering kinda trying one, but I think I'll mod. it a leetle bit... Probably bring some rations and a hatchet with me.

Anyway I just wanted to get my info early... IDK, but I dont think I'll have a chance for this for several years yet. And I should probably at least finish up figuring out meditation first, so I have something to do while sitting in the [wilderness of choice].

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Original post: alacardkane

actualy alot of the premise, and why you take nothing with you, is because you weaken yourself to the point in which you become receptive to the vision.

if you want the quick easy way, go find someone with some peyote and quest that way. since besides the strong hallucinogen, the vomiting induces mental weakness because of dehydration.

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Original post: Vindictus

[QUOTE=alacardkane;362686]actualy alot of the premise, and why you take nothing with you, is because you weaken yourself to the point in which you become receptive to the vision.

if you want the quick easy way, go find someone with some peyote and quest that way. since besides the strong hallucinogen, the vomiting induces mental weakness because of dehydration.[/QUOTE]

Oh, well I guess that makes sense... But couldnt you just argue that makes it a simple hallucination?

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Original post: alacardkane

yes, but what is a hallucination?

its just an altered state like trance or hypnosis. you just got to take it how you take it.

I mean every culture, like say the Tiano i think, hang themselves from hooks in their chest till they basically pass out from the pain and experience the same thing, its just the means to an ends.

Im honestly not going to stand in the way of an ancient method that has quite clearly proven to have at least some kind of result.

whether you want to trust that result or not is up to you. so really that is what it comes down to.

I trust the wisdom of my ancestors, so when i have the need to go on my quest, i will.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Ymir

I came across a great book by the name of
"The Book of the Vision Quest' Personal Transformation in the Wilderness"
:A Sun Bear Book-
by Steven Foster, and Meredith Little

also,
"Black Elk Speaks" is one amazing piece of wisdom, and I highly recommend it.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Vindictus

K, thanks alacardkane and ymir.

Nothing against the ASCs, but I really think that going out into the wilderness with nothing but a blanket and some water is a quick way to get dead, and I'm not really eager to go shaman 'Tripping', if you get my drift. Nothing against drugs, but they have that nasty little adiction thing going on.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Jenfucius

[QUOTE=Vindictus;362635]Okay, I'm looking for general information on what I think are referred to as Shaman trips- when someone goes out into the wild for a time in search for knowledge. Does anyone have information on theese? I think the background was australian, but idrk.[/QUOTE]
Are you refering to Australian Aboriginal practices?

I'm guessing you mean something like "Dream Time"????

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Original post: Jenfucius

[QUOTE=Vindictus;362916]... Nothing against drugs, but they have that nasty little adiction thing going on.[/QUOTE]
Its mainly process and artificial drugs that you have to worry about.
In many animist cultures the plant drugs arnt abused like how we have in the west. If you plan on using the drug route its good to get aided by an authentic shaman who knows what he's doing and using proper dosages etc.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Vindictus

[QUOTE=Jenfucius;362952]Are you refering to Australian Aboriginal practices?

I'm guessing you mean something like "Dream Time"????[/QUOTE]

Yeah, something like that. All I remember is that it was australian in origin.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Jenfucius

[QUOTE=Vindictus;362957]Yeah, something like that. All I remember is that it was australian in origin.[/QUOTE]It should be "Dream Time" then. Unfortunatly I cannot say I know enough about it. I know among North American Indians its quite common for many tribes to use sweat lodges to achieve certain mental and religious states and how to contact the various different astral worlds. The use of high intesity heat with steam and often certain herbs help in acheiving the state needed to visit those worlds.
(note: becareful if you plan to this. Some have actually died from doing sweet lodges by unqualify people. Theres a few news article about it over the net.)

There must be some shamans in your area that can help you. If not I recomend Michael Harner's book "The Way of the Shaman". Even though I have some criticism of him, I do think the book is a good intro to the various shamanic systems found around the world.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Vindictus

[QUOTE=Jenfucius;363067]It should be "Dream Time" then. Unfortunatly I cannot say I know enough about it. I know among North American Indians its quite common for many tribes to use sweat lodges to achieve certain mental and religious states and how to contact the various different astral worlds. The use of high intesity heat with steam and often certain herbs help in acheiving the state needed to visit those worlds.
(note: becareful if you plan to this. Some have actually died from doing sweet lodges by unqualify people. Theres a few news article about it over the net.)

There must be some shamans in your area that can help you. If not I recomend Michael Harner's book "The Way of the Shaman". Even though I have some criticism of him, I do think the book is a good intro to the various shamanic systems found around the world.[/QUOTE]

Well, thanks for the info.

The main problem with finding a shaman in my area is that I'm afraid if I post on the net that I'm looking for a shaman in the houston area, then I'll only find a bunch of fakes and the real ones will ignore it. Not sure if this veiw is biased or not, but there seem to be loads of fake mages of all types everywhere.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Jenfucius

[QUOTE=Vindictus;363177]Well, thanks for the info.

The main problem with finding a shaman in my area is that I'm afraid if I post on the net that I'm looking for a shaman in the houston area, then I'll only find a bunch of fakes and the real ones will ignore it. Not sure if this veiw is biased or not, but there seem to be loads of fake mages of all types everywhere.[/QUOTE]

You are right there will be alot of fake new age shamans and the like around.

I'm not sure if the "The Native American Church" is in your neck of the woods. I know they are mostly in California and parts of western Canada. I would go to them. They do hold peyote ceremonies. I had a friend that was invited to go to one a few years ago (he's not Native). He had said quite positive things about the experience.
I'm not sure If I could be of much help here.

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Original post: Vindictus

Native american church? probably not. Texas is part of the 'Bible Belt', so there probably isnt as much non-christian occult activity as other places. Not that I have a problem with christians, but after hearing how much the bible got altered in translation [hebrew to latin to greek to english I think] I decided that that religion was not for me. And this post is mostly pointless...

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Original post: nechesh

[QUOTE=Vindictus;362916]K, thanks alacardkane and ymir.

Nothing against the ASCs, but I really think that going out into the wilderness with nothing but a blanket and some water is a quick way to get dead, and I'm not really eager to go shaman 'Tripping', if you get my drift. Nothing against drugs, but they have that nasty little adiction thing going on.[/QUOTE]
I'm with Jenfucius here. The ethnogenic substances used by indigenous cultures can hardly be considered addictive. When's the last time you met a strung out shaman in an alley jonesing for a button of peyote?
So what are you looking for, a shaman tourist vacation? You won't get much insight using "shaman light" techniques. :rolleyes:

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Original post: nechesh

BTW, there is a whole lotta Native American Church activity in Texas. You guys should try using google a little bit more.
http://maps.google.com/maps?client=safa ... 7178060987
http://peyote.com/peyote/peyotegardens.html

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Jenfucius

[QUOTE=nechesh;363606]I'm with Jenfucius here. The ethnogenic substances used by indigenous cultures can hardly be considered addictive. When's the last time you met a strung out shaman in an alley jonesing for a button of peyote?
[/QUOTE]
How true Nechesh! :p

[mattyoclock]

it's important to note that there are two versions of quests to undertake by going into the wilderness, the first is a vision quest, but there is also one that is more akin to the australian "walkabout" where it is a journey into the wilderness outside of your borders, and it's hard to imagine being a shaman without spending time among other people from your tribe, to get a broader perspective on life. the second trip is at least as important as the first, as it is the accumulation of wisdom that gives you the ability to interpret any visions.

It's also worth noting that native shamans did not enter the wilderness with nothing but a waterskin, or a blanket. they did it armed with the skills of growing up in the enviroment they where questing in, and a lifetime of survival skills within it. like the ability to make fire from sticks, it was an additional hardship (even the best firemakers i know need at least a half hour of strenuous activity with good materials), but a possibility. similarly they could make tools and shelter using natural cordage, and where possibly masters of stone knapping. They also could set snares and deadfalls to gain food, and knew what plants where edible.

My point is that with this knowledge, they where far more prepared than a newcomer to the woods with a backpack full of supplies. respect the forest, the desert, the mountains and oceans, learn what you can well enough that your life could depend on it, but take tools if you can't. I used to teach wilderness survival, and I take a sharp knife because I am terrible at knapping stones, appropriate clothing for the time of year, and a flint and steel because fire can be the difference between life and death, and i would rather have a safety net in case i can't get one going