Controversy: Are the native americans the ten lost tribes of Israel?

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Hades

Hello,

I am new to this forum. I am Israeli in origin, but I like all kinds of 'foreign' things to jewish culture, like blues music, taoist philosophy and lifestyle, and I am fascinated by the native americans and their ways.

To me, it is quite obvious that they (the native americans) are the descendents of Jacob, their customs are very similar to jewish customs. I believe the native americans are the ten lost tribes of Israel. The other two tribes, Israel and Judeah, were mixed in with the races who ousted them from their homeland. I don't believe that all those jews who went through the diaspora just vanished. They must have went somewhere.

Who here agrees with me? Could the native americans be the lost tribes? And why where they scattered across the ocean in the new world? (my theory is, because of their use of blood sacrifices may have been why God punished them with the diaspora to begin with)

But the basic premise is, native americans and jews are very similar. Both believe in praying to the lord for success and venery IN LIFE, and that everyone goes to the same place after death. Revenge, or justice if you will, must be extracted while alive, not some divine retribution after you are dead and gone. God gives man volition, or free will, and he can choose to obey the lord, or do things his way.

Anyway, please respond if interested.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: I.N.R.I.

[QUOTE=Hades;340063]But the basic premise is, native americans and jews are very similar. Both believe in praying to the lord for success and venery IN LIFE, and that everyone goes to the same place after death. Revenge, or justice if you will, must be extracted while alive, not some divine retribution after you are dead and gone. God gives man volition, or free will, and he can choose to obey the lord, or do things his way.

Anyway, please respond if interested.[/QUOTE]

I think your own interest in Native Americans has prompted you to forge a bond between yourself and them.

Which native american religion are you talking about anyways? There were many nations and religions on the continent before the slow, crushing erasure of colonization.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Anathema_Oracle

Rastafarians claim to be descended from the lost tribes, so do the Lemba in Uganda and probably others.

Thing is, once something becomes 'lost' it seems to pop up in the weirdest places. I think that your idea is interesting, but without merit.

Sorry.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Dedecor_Vir

This kind of reminds me of the Mormon religion for some reason. It seems possible if the idea of their being an ice-mass in the area of the Berling Sea hasn't been disproven as being a way for how people immigrated to the Americas before the whole 'colonization' thing. I don't have enough personal interest to research for facts to support/disprove my speculation. That's just me trying to add to the arguement.

I think other people can raise any questions or points to lend weight to this idea being unlikely to be true, but I'm sure other people can add to the idea being possibly the truth. Their was something on the Colbert report about how someones geneology can be traced back to when everyone apparently lived in Africa...they needed DNA though. And said Colbert had like, a three in four chance of being of Jewish background, or something like that.

dnaheritage.com top right
Edit-Typo

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Skeptismo118

They are not. Also, you're over-generalizing the complexities of the hundreds of different Native American cultural groups and their beliefs.

If you feel like running with your poetic interpretation find a nice Mormon and talk to them about the issue.

Also, if you are on Long Island, head down to Stony Brook and talk with some of the folks in the Anthropology Department about Native American cultures. You might have some fun and learn a few things.

Edited to Add: Also, if you're on an "Embracing my Jewish Heeritage" kick pick up a copy of Douglas Rushkoff's Nothing Sacred.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Hades

hey it doesnt hurt to dream?

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Skeptismo118

If your dream tricks you into mistaking Poetry for History it might.

Learning to differentiate between Science, Magic, Religion and Art is a great helper in all things occultural. Ramsey Dukes S.S.O.T.B.M.E. will give you an excellent compass for doing just that.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: the spirit!

[QUOTE=Skeptismo118;340394]
Learning to differentiate between Science, Magic, Religion and Art is a great helper in all things occultural. Ramsey Dukes S.S.O.T.B.M.E. will give you an excellent compass for doing just that.[/QUOTE]

i dunno...

those 4 are all connected on a bunch of levels....distinctions can be hazy(i.e. science is really just a form of rationalizing, and doesn't necessarily need empirical evidence)

OP:
there is 1 thing that is odd about the native americans and could connect them to the jews though, and that's the existence of the swastika in a couple of tribes. although i think that it's a bit presumptuous to take the big leap to the jews because (1)it was a common symbol in other parts of the world (2) it's a pretty basic symbol.

it is possible, but that's all....and you know..alot of things are possible. probable is a different story.

1 thing to especially consider is that there are hardly any parallels to jewish mythology in native mythology. this is a blow to your "lost tribes" theory because the jews were well known to have a big oral tradition with loads of long, complex stories.

another thing is that the natives look a bit more....you know...ASIAN!

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Marquise De Sade

Sorry man but I think you came to the wrong forum...

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Jenfucius

I think mainly the Mormons are perptuating this notion.
But like what others have said Native people is a broad term. There are many diffirent Native ethnic groups, religions etc.

[sekhem_nefer]

Me being of Native American descent, I don't recall any Native American claiming or wanting to claim Jewish heritage of any lost tribe.

[Venefica]

If Native Americans are descended from Jews a simple DNA test should solve that controversy. Though it is a controversy I have never before heard about. I mean nothing in native American religion suggest kinship to Jews, nor are the two peoples similar in appearance. And from what I know of the two cultures, though I am no experts I do not think they seam to similar. Native American culture is similar to Norwegian Sames than they are Jews. Where do this idea come from? It do not seam very likely to me.

[Shaam]

I'll just say NO...nothing in the history or even the DNA suggests any relationship to that part of the world at all. I have that article somewhere...

[Venefica]

It seam to me that some occultists often go crazy over some theory or another without ever checking the facts. Now often the facts are difficult to check, but in this case science can and have as far as I know busted this theory rather thoroughly. There are no genetic link between Indians of America and Jews. Though I guess that for some it might be romantic to think up a theory around this.

[sekhem_nefer]

I'll just say NO...nothing in the history or even the DNA suggests any relationship to that part of the world at all. I have that article somewhere...

According to DNA, many Jews are not Jewish. You have a bunch of mixed raced people with Jewish ancestory, but they are really more of the other ethnic group than really Jewish only claiming Jewishness because through tradition of if your momma is a Jew, then you are two, regardless if you daddy was Chinese.

Based on DNA of all the people claiming to be Jewish, on really a small number is actually purely so. For example, the Jews of India. They are as Jewish in regards to DNA as the rest of the Indian Hindu population. But you can't tell them that.

And that goes for Ethiopians as well. Jewish by religion, definately not by DNA.

[sekhem_nefer]

If Native Americans are descended from Jews a simple DNA test should solve that controversy. Though it is a controversy I have never before heard about. I mean nothing in native American religion suggest kinship to Jews, nor are the two peoples similar in appearance. And from what I know of the two cultures, though I am no experts I do not think they seam to similar. Native American culture is similar to Norwegian Sames than they are Jews. Where do this idea come from? It do not seam very likely to me.

I don't know of Norwegian Sames are eskimos, but Native American culture is really evident in eastern Mongolian culture. I mean, they dress the same, look the same as many Native Americans in North America. The whole leather fringes clothing with feathers in the hair.

It is purely evident that Native Americans were Asians who came from the Near North Pole areas.

[Venefica]

I did not say they where the same, but that they is more similar to Sames and to Jews. As for any kinship with Asians, I do not know. I am not a geneticist. My comment was on the assumption someone had made that Jews and American Indians was related, and I think that is quite unlikely as they have nothing similar in their culture.

[Brendan831]

Sekhem -

You're right that Judaism, as a culture, consists of many different genotypes. However, I have to take a little issue with how you framed the issue. There is no such thing as a "pure" Jewish lineage. There are certain genetic markers that TEND to be shared by Jews from a certain area (Ashkenazi, Sephardic, Mitzrahim, etc); and recent evidence suggests that these groups may share a somewhat higher percentage of markers with each other than with their surrounding respective cultures. Even in the Bible you will find that the early Jewish "tribes" were not genetically unified. The idea of an essential and universal Jewish "type", which existed at ANY time in history, is a theory that has been largely discredited.

Hades -

Native Americans do not seem to be related to any group of Jews. Sorry.

[Venefica]

Brendan you seam knowledgeable about this. Do you know if 12 district tribes can be found genetically among Jews, are there any way to prove that there ever was 12 tribes?

[Shaam]

interesting site
http://www.real-dream-catchers.com/Nati ... srael2.htm