on an excerpt from the book, Coyote Medicine

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on an excerpt from the book, Coyote Medicine

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Original post: Vardøger
We live in a world without fixed points of view. It is Einstein's legacy; there is no longer any absolute reference point from which to veiw anything. Like the postmodern literature critic, who does not believe that any story has a set message, or structure, or even author, we are postmoderns who can see no intrinsic point to life. Like the academic who believes that stories by themselves don't mean anything, that they are written by being read, we postmoderns look at life and see something essentially meaningless, something that we pretend has meaning in order to be comfortable.

This is of course a discouraging and depressing way to go about life. The postmodern view has much in common with the shamanic view. For most people, these views inspire nihilistic despair; for a few, if we agree with Nietzche, they inspire artisitic brilliance and creativity beyond bounds. Few are happy living according to the postmodern stance of a world without absolute references. This position works for a shaman, however, because he is a rarity in the context of a traditional society. The majority of Native people live with a structured set of ideas, within which life is simple and meaning is rather fixed and concrete. The shaman lives in a different world from his people -- this is what gives him a clear vision of what to do for those who are struck somewhere in their lives.

The shaman specializes in finding meaning by venturing outside its borders into chaos and meaninglessnes. Paradoxically, the venture is possible only because of the strong faith the shaman has in what is true, because of the traditions, teachings, and tools that aid in his spiritual journey. In his personal life, the shaman reverts to the premodern stance, finding comfort in the old ways, being surrounded by rituals he finds to be meaning-full.

The depressed person, or the person suffering from psychotic disorders of the self, is suffering from a lack of absolute reference points. Without limits or boundaries, emotion becomes unbearable -- it is out of control. Few are strong enough to survive without reference points. Those of us who try suffer from a loss of meaning, or loss of world, or loss of self. We look at the world and see nothing there. - Lewis Mehl-Madrona, M.D., p. 164, Coyote Medicine.
Rather bleak and separated from nature sounding to me.

There are at least eight things wrong with the above quote, who can find them all?

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on an excerpt from the book, Coyote Medicine

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Original post: katz54

"oh my" they seem to say, "we've lost our reference points, oh the angst of it all, now we have to make new ones"
lament of a late postmodern relic
Hey Nietzche, "seig Heil" you've inspired a generation and didn't even know it. Neo-Pagan shamanic visionaries beware, we have no past that limits our structured way of seeing.

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on an excerpt from the book, Coyote Medicine

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Original post: Coyote7

Thats like crying about kicking down a fence that had no purpose and was just in the way! Fences for fences sake is kinda funny, but only ho-ho funny, not haha funny. But the writer was correct about the shaman living outside of tribal reality, its part of the base of a shamans power, to make mythology instead of living in it.

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on an excerpt from the book, Coyote Medicine

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Original post: Vardøger

there you are you wittle twickster!
Coyote7 wrote:But the writer was correct about the shaman living outside of tribal reality, its part of the base of a shamans power, to make mythology instead of living in it.
this is undeniably true, but I think the author steps into dangerous territory when claiming that a shaman's alienation affords it the ability to see another with better familiarity.
The shaman lives in a different world from his people -- this is what gives him a clear vision of what to do for those who are struck somewhere in their lives. - Mehl-Madrona

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on an excerpt from the book, Coyote Medicine

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Original post: Trapezoid

[QUOTE=Vardøger]Rather bleak and separated from nature sounding to me.

There are at least eight things wrong with the above quote, who can find them all?[/QUOTE]

If I'm not mistaken it was written by Andrew Weil, so there's number one and anything else is icing on the cake. :)

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on an excerpt from the book, Coyote Medicine

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Original post: lunukaos

Hmm. Shamanism has a very fluid view of reality, so this makes sense from a certain point of view. After all; the population, maps, and structure of the Otherworld can change with each voyage. Still, this sounds more like Chaos Magick than Shamanism.

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on an excerpt from the book, Coyote Medicine

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Original post: Coyote7
this is undeniably true, but I think the author steps into dangerous territory when claiming that a shaman's alienation affords it the ability to see another with better familiarity.
Unless he's trying to be a shaman himself, and such is the great medicine you have, to not live in his mythology.

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on an excerpt from the book, Coyote Medicine

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Original post: Vardøger

[QUOTE=Trapezoid]If I'm not mistaken it was written by Andrew Weil, so there's number one and anything else is icing on the cake. :)[/QUOTE]Weil is responsible for the book's foreword.

honestly, I was doing the conjecture thingy by proposing eight things were incorrect with the author's perception (it seemed like a cool number)... I should probably drop all conterfeit contentions and write up my disagreements as best as possible, that way I can be corrected and perhaps guided if I am in fact incorrect by assuming the author was 'out-to-lunch'.

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on an excerpt from the book, Coyote Medicine

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Original post: Vardøger

[QUOTE=lunukaos] Still, this sounds more like Chaos Magick than Shamanism.[/QUOTE]
this sounds intriguing. I wonder, what are the differences between the two?

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on an excerpt from the book, Coyote Medicine

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Original post: Coyote7

I still wonder about that...

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on an excerpt from the book, Coyote Medicine

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Original post: lunukaos

[QUOTE=Vardøger]this sounds intriguing. I wonder, what are the differences between the two?[/QUOTE]Window dressing and social role mainly.

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on an excerpt from the book, Coyote Medicine

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Original post: Kanislatrans

I agree,Lunakaos. I personaly see very little difference between eclectic shamanism and Chaos magick. I haven't read the book yet but have added it to my list of things to look at..

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on an excerpt from the book, Coyote Medicine

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Original post: Vindictus

actually, a '*true' shaman has to go through some kind of childhood trauma or disease, be chosen by another shaman, and go through a long period of intense training.

Chaos magick, on the other hand, is much more loose about who gets in... Anyone with the self control to get past the early exercises is allowed in.

Now, if you were speaking about practice, I'll admit that there are some superficial similarities... But if you want to look at it that way, there are similarities between shamanic, chaos, and Traditional magick... But if you assume that they're the same, you have another thing coming.

*Not my opinion, this are actual qualifiers.

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