can inhaling smoke of herbs cause divinition

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ark200
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can inhaling smoke of herbs cause divinition

Post by ark200 »

i have seen in many movies like sleepy hollow or 300 that witch or shamans burn some medicinal herbs and inhale its smoke and do divinition. wheather it is possible or not?

can inhaling smoke of medicinal herbs affect the mind? if yes, how?

please answer the questions

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Re: can inhaling smoke of herbs cause divinition

Post by Ramscha »

For example they can intoxicate you or give you a solid brain damage when you get too much CO and faint. Okay, you would need to burn at least a bush in a room to get a smoke poisoning but believe me, you wouldn't be the first one. People do crazy shit to get on a trip.

So yes, herbs and smoke can give you a sort of "vision".Burning incense and other things is quite common to induce trance which is a necessary state of awareness to do some divination. But using them alone to get it most likely has a high risk potential depending on the dose. And whithout knowing your stuff you will get likely too much.I had a very bad experience with night shade, nothing I would recommend.

Smoke and burned herbs are of better use in combination with another methode like certain breathing inductions or flame seeing. Dancing and writing are possible as well, there is a whole load of divination possibilities out there, many with a much lesser risk to hurt yourself. [wink]
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Re: can inhaling smoke of herbs cause divinition

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Most of the herbs that are used to induce trance can be quite deadly. It's best to learn these things from an experienced mentor.
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Re: can inhaling smoke of herbs cause divinition

Post by ark200 »

is that all? is there any other view on that matter?

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Re: can inhaling smoke of herbs cause divinition

Post by alejandrocerv »

There are, of course, many stories to tell. But care should always be exercised. Burning herbs is a way to receive medicine. And you should always ask an experienced individual before sitting with any medicine. Most times, it's useful to have a guide with you the first time you try something new or whenever you feel there may be a safety risk.

In terms of smoke, ALWAYS have ventilation. I can't tell you about many herbs, as I don't know much, but ask an experienced sibling about sage or palo santo.

Also, keep in mind that herbs don't cause divination, per se. Divination is an art of the mind, and medicine is a tool. Pencils don't cause art, and they aren't the only way to make art. But many prefer to work with them.
"To practice magic is to be a quack; to know magic is to be a sage." -Eliphas Lévi

"Paradox and contradiction are mysteries of the soul. The weird, the uncanny are sources of knowledge. To know the self. . . one must open the heart wide and search every part. This requires facing the unacceptable, the perverse, the strange, even the sick. Without this critical embrace of metaphysical complexity the soul cannot be understood." -bell hooks

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Re: can inhaling smoke of herbs cause divinition

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It is ... funny (?) ... ironic (?) that drugs that stimulate 'spiritual experience' cause a 'little death'. Lack of oxygen to the brain. Neurons and other fancy words get disrupted... and we call it spiritual.

We all have our poison of choice. Mine is weed. I don't use it with respect (yet). I may never. I would probably be better off if I didn't use it at all. But I like it and I do. I have an addictive personality. My biggest accomplishment (in will power) in this life has been to stop smoking cigarettes,... just under 3 years ago. I don't concider myself quit. I still feel the urge. Weed is my compromise.

I think drugs are like a magnifying glass. You know how you look thru one and see amazingly magnified things in the center... but everything at the edges is stretched and distorted. That is a compromise too. I have thought many amazing things while high,... wrote them down,.. sobered up,... read it and thought... WTF? It's not saying what I experienced wasn't valid, it just didn't translate down into the physical. I don't think much of it will.

Again. I don't use it with respect. It may help many who do. For me, I know,... my biggest learning experiences will come in sobriety. I may be learning things when I'm high, but not in this mind. I also may be rationalizing. That is a possibility I recognize and accept for the moment.
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Re: can inhaling smoke of herbs cause divinition

Post by manonthepath »

Some shamans believe that the smoke of some herbs cleanses energetic impurities from the things the come in contact with. Foe example when Indians move into their circles. To inhale the smoke can often be seen as driving out the evil or unclean elements in ourselves. The aromas can often help the practitioner center and better focus the mind, spirit and energy on the tasks at hand. As mentioned in other posts, there is the biochemical component as well. Also one might want to bear in mind regarding divination that certain gods/energies/entities have scent preferences and that inhaling certain smoke may be move inviting to the entities.

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Re: can inhaling smoke of herbs cause divinition

Post by alejandrocerv »

Absolutely. Scent can be a powerful tool (works great for creating recallable memories!) for practitioners and for those who want to enter other realms. Just be careful that, while you're exploring or inviting beings that aren't of this plane, your physical body is not at risk. It is only a vessel, yes, but it is our only vessel.
"To practice magic is to be a quack; to know magic is to be a sage." -Eliphas Lévi

"Paradox and contradiction are mysteries of the soul. The weird, the uncanny are sources of knowledge. To know the self. . . one must open the heart wide and search every part. This requires facing the unacceptable, the perverse, the strange, even the sick. Without this critical embrace of metaphysical complexity the soul cannot be understood." -bell hooks

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Re: can inhaling smoke of herbs cause divinition

Post by Sypheara »

I feel like just posting a link is lazy but think its quite valid to the discussion at hand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythia

It's been done for thousands of years, but comes with many inherent risks. I plan in the future of experimenting with certain plants, and substances, created by myself. It requires a very high level of study.. and I know im as of yet no where near to bringing them to fruition.

For now, I will probably just incorporate some more basic substances that are 'safer' into my own work.
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Re: can inhaling smoke of herbs cause divinition

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"To practice magic is to be a quack; to know magic is to be a sage." -Eliphas Lévi

"Paradox and contradiction are mysteries of the soul. The weird, the uncanny are sources of knowledge. To know the self. . . one must open the heart wide and search every part. This requires facing the unacceptable, the perverse, the strange, even the sick. Without this critical embrace of metaphysical complexity the soul cannot be understood." -bell hooks

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Re: can inhaling smoke of herbs cause divinition

Post by Sypheara »

Salvia was one of the plants i was thinking of due to its current legality in my country.

I also want to try and find / try other substances similar to this, for certain operations. However due to their nature legally in my country I do not wish to discuss that on these boards.

Maybe in pms.
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Re: can inhaling smoke of herbs cause divinition

Post by alejandrocerv »

I have pm'd you, Sypheara.
"To practice magic is to be a quack; to know magic is to be a sage." -Eliphas Lévi

"Paradox and contradiction are mysteries of the soul. The weird, the uncanny are sources of knowledge. To know the self. . . one must open the heart wide and search every part. This requires facing the unacceptable, the perverse, the strange, even the sick. Without this critical embrace of metaphysical complexity the soul cannot be understood." -bell hooks

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Re: can inhaling smoke of herbs cause divinition

Post by manonthepath »

manofsands wrote:It is ... funny (?) ... ironic (?) that drugs that stimulate 'spiritual experience' cause a 'little death'. Lack of oxygen to the brain. Neurons and other fancy words get disrupted... and we call it spiritual.

We all have our poison of choice. Mine is weed. I don't use it with respect (yet). I may never. I would probably be better off if I didn't use it at all. But I like it and I do. I have an addictive personality. My biggest accomplishment (in will power) in this life has been to stop smoking cigarettes,... just under 3 years ago. I don't concider myself quit. I still feel the urge. Weed is my compromise.

I think drugs are like a magnifying glass. You know how you look thru one and see amazingly magnified things in the center... but everything at the edges is stretched and distorted. That is a compromise too. I have thought many amazing things while high,... wrote them down,.. sobered up,... read it and thought... WTF? It's not saying what I experienced wasn't valid, it just didn't translate down into the physical. I don't think much of it will.

Again. I don't use it with respect. It may help many who do. For me, I know,... my biggest learning experiences will come in sobriety. I may be learning things when I'm high, but not in this mind. I also may be rationalizing. That is a possibility I recognize and accept for the moment.
Unfortunately drugs: weed and the rest, calcify the Pineal Gland, which is considered the third eye in many cultures. People have the opinion that these substances enhance their connection with the metaphysical, but there is strong evidence to the contrary. I just felt compelled to say this since some here have indicated that they want to attain higher levels of consciousness. I guess it's about the choices one wants to make and the strength of one's desire and character. Now go smoke some weed.

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Re: can inhaling smoke of herbs cause divinition

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Unfortunately drugs: weed and the rest, calcify the Pineal Gland, which is considered the third eye in many cultures. People have the opinion that these substances enhance their connection with the metaphysical, but there is strong evidence to the contrary.
Fascinating,but please do bring some of that evidence here,otherwise this is a baseless assertion.
I just felt compelled to say this since some here have indicated that they want to attain higher levels of consciousness. I guess it's about the choices one wants to make and the strength of one's desire and character. Now go smoke some weed.
Strength of character?

Are you implying something with this?

Clarification is needed here,because it seems otherwise that you are assuming a causation/correlation between weakness of character and entheogen use and this statement may also be perceived as to be insinuating weakness of will,re the desire reference.
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Re: can inhaling smoke of herbs cause divinition

Post by alejandrocerv »

Thanks, Nahemah.

Below is a useful and multi-perspective video on psychedelic medicine. Not all of it is about divination, per se, but what the video shows us is that psychedelics are largely misunderstood and stigmatized. It wouldn't surprise me that people interested in the Pineal gland would write off psychedelics, at least partially I think for their intense mind-altering effects, but keep in mind that these substances (of varying legalities) can free you from the industrial mindtrap of the 21st Century. I would thus not be surprised to hear others say that these medicines are powerful decalcifiers. I'll do some research, but know that, on all sides, the verdict on psychedelics seems to be out. Let's leave it to everyone and their individual paths, shall we?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BF0nPegMZg

(Of course: Know the law, your limits, and how to stay safe. I'm not a doctor, a certified herbalist, or an experienced psychotropics user, but merely a student. I learn what I can, pass it on, and keep what I like around. I'm neither recommending nor warning against these substances.)
"To practice magic is to be a quack; to know magic is to be a sage." -Eliphas Lévi

"Paradox and contradiction are mysteries of the soul. The weird, the uncanny are sources of knowledge. To know the self. . . one must open the heart wide and search every part. This requires facing the unacceptable, the perverse, the strange, even the sick. Without this critical embrace of metaphysical complexity the soul cannot be understood." -bell hooks

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Re: can inhaling smoke of herbs cause divinition

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It wouldn't surprise me that people interested in the Pineal gland would write off psychedelics, at least partially I think for their intense mind-altering effects but keep in mind that these substances (of varying legalities) can free you from the industrial mindtrap of the 21st Century.
I am interested in and indeed,reasonably knowledgeable about the Pineal gland and the important role it plays in the endocrine system and I don't write off psychedelics. It should also be noted that here is a lot of scientific interest currently ongoing in the medicinal field regarding the potential beneficial uses of psychedelic drugs in therapy for such issues as PTSD and depression especially.

The thousands of years humanity has under it's belt in regard to Shamanic medicine is finally being acknowledged,it would seem and by people who understand physiology/neurology to a much greater degree,at least in regard to modern scientific and empirical rationales.

We live in interesting times,it seems. [thumbup]

For some that freedom from the mindtrap causes a great deal of cognitive dissonance and they scurry back to their modern lives with open arms as the leap is too great to contemplate,so they close down as best they can and refuse to further allow their minds to even consider any possibility that different experiences to their own can carry any validity.

For others it's the lack of direct experience or understanding that closes their minds to everything outside their own preference set and narrow reality tunnels:
Some people who take drugs are addicts: therefore any drug utiliser is also a brain addled delusional and nothing they have to say on the subject is therefore right,valid or worth any kind of consideration.

To each their own,indeed,but the rub lies in that denial dosen't it?

I'm afraid there will always be people who set themselves up as moral arbiters for the rest of us and who will continue unregardless to do so blindly, denying all and any experiential, empirical and/or anecdotal evidence that contradicts or counteracts their own mindset.

Isn't it a shame that we must always qualify the glaringly obvious because of this,that drugs can be harmful and caution must be used,when this is a no brainer for most of us,but it always has to be trotted out,nonetheless,mostly to pacify those who will react with visceral outrage to any suggestion of benefice or insight derived from chemical or hormonal stimulants?

More later.

Probably quite a lot more,lol.
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Re: can inhaling smoke of herbs cause divinition

Post by alejandrocerv »

Nahemah wrote:
I am interested in and indeed,reasonably knowledgeable about the Pineal gland and the important role it plays in the endocrine system and I don't write off psychedelics.

...

For some... it's the lack of direct experience or understanding that closes their minds to everything outside their own preference set and narrow reality tunnels:
Some people who take drugs are addicts: therefore any drug utiliser is also a brain addled delusional and nothing they have to say on the subject is therefore right,valid or worth any kind of consideration.

To each their own,indeed,but the rub lies in that denial dosen't it?

I'm afraid there will always be people who set themselves up as moral arbiters for the rest of us and who will continue unregardless to do so blindly, denying all and any experiential, empirical and/or anecdotal evidence that contradicts or counteracts their own mindset.

Isn't it a shame that we must always qualify the glaringly obvious because of this,that drugs can be harmful and caution must be used,when this is a no brainer for most of us,but it always has to be trotted out,nonetheless,mostly to pacify those who will react with visceral outrage to any suggestion of benefice or insight derived from chemical or hormonal stimulants?
Again, illuminating words, and a fantastic perspective. Sorry for generalizing about the group of people who have an interest in the pineal gland; I've not met enough to make such a claim. That closed-off energy rubs off on all of us, doesn't it? [grr] Regardless, it may be part of the rational for our interlocuter denying psychotropics straight off -- along with all you said.

Here's another good resource, again tangentially related but applicable in broad strokes -- this time an article about the phenomenon called "magusitis."
Many believe themselves to have all the power in the world once they've discovered some "secret," and put it to use only to serve their ideals or inhibit the goals of others. How sad.

http://deoxy.org/meme/Magusitus

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"Paradox and contradiction are mysteries of the soul. The weird, the uncanny are sources of knowledge. To know the self. . . one must open the heart wide and search every part. This requires facing the unacceptable, the perverse, the strange, even the sick. Without this critical embrace of metaphysical complexity the soul cannot be understood." -bell hooks

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Re: can inhaling smoke of herbs cause divinition

Post by alejandrocerv »

I should, of course, highlight a positive aspect, from the article, to get those good vibes flowing again: "by the end of the story you discover she just wants to be loved."

We all want to be loved, and there are different paths and medicines that can lead us to wisdom and love. Find yours, OP and various commenters. And always, always, exercise caution and keep those blinders OFF! So mote it be. :)
"To practice magic is to be a quack; to know magic is to be a sage." -Eliphas Lévi

"Paradox and contradiction are mysteries of the soul. The weird, the uncanny are sources of knowledge. To know the self. . . one must open the heart wide and search every part. This requires facing the unacceptable, the perverse, the strange, even the sick. Without this critical embrace of metaphysical complexity the soul cannot be understood." -bell hooks

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Re: can inhaling smoke of herbs cause divinition

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manonthepath wrote:
manofsands wrote:It is ... funny (?) ... ironic (?) that drugs that stimulate 'spiritual experience' cause a 'little death'. Lack of oxygen to the brain. Neurons and other fancy words get disrupted... and we call it spiritual.

We all have our poison of choice. Mine is weed. I don't use it with respect (yet). I may never. I would probably be better off if I didn't use it at all. But I like it and I do. I have an addictive personality. My biggest accomplishment (in will power) in this life has been to stop smoking cigarettes,... just under 3 years ago. I don't concider myself quit. I still feel the urge. Weed is my compromise.

I think drugs are like a magnifying glass. You know how you look thru one and see amazingly magnified things in the center... but everything at the edges is stretched and distorted. That is a compromise too. I have thought many amazing things while high,... wrote them down,.. sobered up,... read it and thought... WTF? It's not saying what I experienced wasn't valid, it just didn't translate down into the physical. I don't think much of it will.

Again. I don't use it with respect. It may help many who do. For me, I know,... my biggest learning experiences will come in sobriety. I may be learning things when I'm high, but not in this mind. I also may be rationalizing. That is a possibility I recognize and accept for the moment.
Unfortunately drugs: weed and the rest, calcify the Pineal Gland, which is considered the third eye in many cultures. People have the opinion that these substances enhance their connection with the metaphysical, but there is strong evidence to the contrary. I just felt compelled to say this since some here have indicated that they want to attain higher levels of consciousness. I guess it's about the choices one wants to make and the strength of one's desire and character. Now go smoke some weed.

So where does this information come from that drugs and other stuff calcify the pineal gland? Calcification is the crusting of a thing, in this case an organ, with chalk. I found it quite astonishing that weed should cause the accumulation of calciumphosphate in any part of the body, so I would like to ask if you would be so kind as to provide a source for your statement, Manonpath.
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Re: can inhaling smoke of herbs cause divinition

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Not to mention that psychoactive drugs have been used for thousands of years in shamanism. Would also be great to see a good reliable source on that.
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Re: can inhaling smoke of herbs cause divinition

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I have studied the pharmacology of cannabis for more than twenty years. I have never seen any evidence that cannabis calcifies the pineal. After several hours of research, I found claims that it isn't good for the pineal, and claims that it decalcifies the pineal, but no claims or evidence that it calcifies the pineal. There is good evidence, however, that cannabis does promote growth of brain cells.
Please cite your source for your claim that cannabis calcifies the pineal.
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Re: can inhaling smoke of herbs cause divinition

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Yeah, I don't think smoking weed (or using any other drug) is a good idea for anyone on a spiritual/magical path, especially on a regular basis, but I'm not sure I buy into the pineal gland/"third eye" hypothesis, and I'm definitely not sure I buy that weed contributes to the calcification of the gland.
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Re: can inhaling smoke of herbs cause divinition

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Again it would be great to see some sources that back up this assertion:
'Yeah, I don't think smoking weed (or using any other drug) is a good idea for anyone on a spiritual/magical path,'
The reason being that these substances are used in cultures worldwide specifically for this purpose. It only seems to have died out in the western world, with its twisted law/moral structure and denial of these substances as tools and spirits that can be communed with in themselves.

Our own knowledge of our own psychoactive plants and fungii in the west for entheogenic purposes is much, much worse ill admit, but that doesn't mean they should be written off as useless or simply harmful without bringing any beneficial effects. The history and evidence i've seen doesn't really support that.
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Re: can inhaling smoke of herbs cause divinition

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Because at the end of the day, there are safer, more reliable and more consistent ways of achieving the same effects without the use of drugs - they just happen to require more effort.

There are also systems of shamanic ritual and training surrounding the entheogenic use of these plants in traditional cultures designed to optimize their spiritual effect and counteract the negative side effects they frequently induce, a system which is almost always ignored or mangled in modern, western attempts to recreate such experiences.

In short, I think if you aren't capable of reaching a certain state without using drugs as a shortcut, then you probably aren't mature enough to be experiencing such states in the first place.

And I'm not some ''just say no'' Reaganite, I've been there and done that, and I still think that overall, using drugs as a spiritual shortcut does more harm than good.
"The path of the Sage is called
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he who gives himself to this path
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Re: can inhaling smoke of herbs cause divinition

Post by Sypheara »

Isn't that denying a sacred communion with the plant spirit though and another tool in a witches/magickians arsenal? Out of anyone, we should be the ones most invested in working with these plants and understand how and when they are to utilised alongside other methods of magick. This should be an area we are supremely knowledgeable about - not ignorant of. We should have extremely good knowledge of the plant, its spirit, and its effects, both on a material and spiritual level.

I do not believe that the same effects can necessarily be achieved through meditative states alone. To commune with these spirits in particular and to fully understand, to cross into their world, will also require ingestion and getting to know them on an extremely personal level. This will also allow them to teach us their use on an intrinsic level. This obviously carries a certain level of risk - all actually potent work does.

You are right in that other cultures have systems of shamanic ritual and training surrounding the use of plants and fungii. Our own traditions are gone, destroyed, or obscured in older texts. Therefore isn't it our duty to reclaim that part of our own tradition and reconnect with it? Western esoteric ism and paganism has alot of examples where such plants were used to equal effect as ones described in other parts of the world in such things as flying ointments. Some hedge witches are researching how this mixture can again be used, and some are now producing potent mixtures with the nightshade family that are correctly mixed for entheogenic and magical usage. Western needs to lose its usage as lesser, and we need to stop importing everything from the east.

It has served us well up to this point combining it with our own sources, but further work of our own needs to be done that lies outside of its particular focus and cultural mindset that comes along with it ie matter denial. This isn't a shortcut - its an entirely valid branch of animism and spirit work that is almost entirely extinct within our esoteric circle.

If this is not explored I think we are in danger of rejecting our own magical traditions in favour of importing and appropriating from other cultures rather than turning to our own heritage, and I think that plant work is extremely important part to achieve that renewal and create new, western traditions. Just as working with the dead is also going to need reincorporating.
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