Meditation while under the influence of DMT?

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Haelos
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Meditation while under the influence of DMT?

Post by Haelos »

I couldn't find any other reliable information on people who might have tried this.
I actually had to log back in just to post this.

Has anyone (who's experienced DMT) tried meditating to clear your mind while under the influence of the substance?
Usually, you have to just sit back and let the substance take you where it wants, show you what it wants.

I'm curious to know if there'd be a way to lead your trip into something mildly productive with a bit of mantra meditation.

I've blasted off several times and have still not done enough for a breakthrough (by choice), and I'm feeling like I'm finally ready to have my ego ripped to shreds for no reason. I would use the mantra "So Hum" (I am that I am) as I meditated, along with the associated visualizations, (if it's even possible).

What are your thoughts on this idea?
Please, if you have never experienced DMT, don't come in to tell me about your hearsay. I need facts before I go to outer space.

Thank you for reading and replying.
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Re: Meditation while under the influence of DMT?

Post by Maya The Generator »

I think DMT is too intense for me to meditate in that state. I would love to trance on DMT with some Guide. There are some Ayahuasca churches and Tribes but I am actually scared in times like this(monopolization of spirituality) to try this sources. Other than that I think I have too few experiences with this substance to silence my mind.

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Re: Meditation while under the influence of DMT?

Post by Desecrated »

I don't think we can technically comment on an illegal drug on this forum.
But I heard about a dog who theoretically accidentally swallowed some and he said that there was no need to meditate during the high since the drugs effects are close to a intense meditation anyway.
It would be like diving under the water when you are already swimming on the surface.
Theoretically.

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Re: Meditation while under the influence of DMT?

Post by magari »

Doesn't last long enough to do any real work.

Stick to other entheogens.

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Re: Meditation while under the influence of DMT?

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From the perception of the user, the drug lasts plenty long.
My mate spent about six lifetimes in a blast off experience. I think I have plenty of time to do some work.

I can't really say that DMT is like meditation. Similar, yes, but there is still a lot of stuff going on through your mind while under the influence.
Rarely are you there with a blank mind, and you have to surrender yourself to it quite quickly or you won't have a very good time.
Sure, you may lose your ego, but your thought train and other menial things stick. One time I spent an entire 8 hours (8 minutes by regular perception) wondering why I was even allowed to do the substance in the first place. It was a very unpleasant time.

And yeah, it's true you shouldn't self-implicate with things like this, I just don't really care.


Really, the practicality of the work isn't what I'm going for. Moreover, I'm just curious if it would be *possible* to even try to meditate UtI.
It's an intense experience that very few things can compete with. I'm more interested in learning about myself on the drug than trying to accomplish any other means or ends.
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Re: Meditation while under the influence of DMT?

Post by magari »

Just because it seems like forever, doesn't mean it is.

If you take one step down from something like DMT and ask the right questions you'll get what you're asking for.

You're being lazy. Do the work.

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Re: Meditation while under the influence of DMT?

Post by Haelos »

I don't have access to unlimited drugs.
Realize that not every human is apparently God like you are.
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Re: Meditation while under the influence of DMT?

Post by Desecrated »

Haelos wrote: I can't really say that DMT is like meditation. Similar, yes, but there is still a lot of stuff going on through your mind while under the influence.
Remember that this is from a perspective of a theoretical dog.
Experience might different from fictitious character to reality.

Lets say we are talking about something completely legal.
Adding fish to pizza.

Now, Some might say that this is a bad idea. But nobody can tell except you. Why don't you try it for yourself and see how t turns out.
Personally I think pizza and fish would make a bad combination, but then again. I don't even eat fish anymore, so what the heck do I know.

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Re: Meditation while under the influence of DMT?

Post by magari »

Your hostility shines a light on your ignorance.

The answers are right in front of you.

We can only show you the door.

Do the work.

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Re: Meditation while under the influence of DMT?

Post by magari »

When God speaks, I listen.

What about you?

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Re: Meditation while under the influence of DMT?

Post by Haelos »

Magari, my hostility comes from your constant act of speaking condescendingly to everyone you write to. You might be subtle about it, but nonetheless you are one of the most arrogant people I have ever had the privilege of communicating with. I am not this hostile to just anybody.
You've had a lot of time to build repertoire with me, so my attitude towards what you say is a result of your own action (or my interpretation of them, whatever.)

A lot of what you say is retardedly unrelevant to the topic questions. Your elitist manner of speaking to other occultists does nothing for your own image. There is a time and place for the subtle vagueness of the things you say, and I am not one of the people to be spoken to like that. I realize a lot more of what you say than you even attempt to convey.

Honestly, I asked a pretty damn simple question that relied on other people's first hand experience. No shit I can do the work myself. I don't have the proper materials or knowledge to do so, so I am building my theory as much as I can. Sure, I could blindly run into an experiment I have no faith in, but where would that get me?


It really bugs me that you keep causing me to come back here and post replies like this. You're right, I've been out of balance for a little while now.
You've done nothing for me but add noise to my life which I must now spend effort in quieting again.
Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy some of the things you write, and a lot of the ideas you decide to share, but you're a dick about it 90% of the time, and you have literally *never* offered anything constructive to one of my threads. Just the same bullshit metaphors and insinuations as always.
I'm really sorry it's come to this post, but if I don't send this now I either won't, or it will get much worse.

Goodbye Magari. I truly hope this is the last time a direct conversation is held between us. Good luck on your own path, and kindly dick off.
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Re: Meditation while under the influence of DMT?

Post by Sypheara »

Haelos, there is nothing wrong with your approach.

Like Descrated said, just try it. Also record everything about the experience as soon as possible.

I havnt come across many good first hand accounts of modern mages/witches incorporating the use of drugs as sacrament innregards to DMT.You might have to be a pathfinder in this regard.

Someone I know was the first to penentrate some ridiculously antimonian planes in soul travel.. There was no map. He just had to trust his instincts and let them guide him. DMT is a safe enough substance. So you should be fine to try the jump in and see method.

It would be great for you to share your experiences - ive only ever made use of alkaloid containing plants externally applied so im afraid I cant give any pointers personally. But I think,you are on the right path.

As for Magari, dont listen to him. [thumbup]

Nobody else does. It's supposedly quite easy to do magick sat in an armchair.
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Re: Meditation while under the influence of DMT?

Post by Haelos »

Sypheara wrote:Haelos, there is nothing wrong with your approach.

Like Descrated said, just try it. Also record everything about the experience as soon as possible.

I havnt come across many good first hand accounts of modern mages/witches incorporating the use of drugs as sacrament innregards to DMT.You might have to be a pathfinder in this regard.

Someone I know was the first to penentrate some ridiculously antimonian planes in soul travel.. There was no map. He just had to trust his instincts and let them guide him. DMT is a safe enough substance. So you should be fine to try the jump in and see method.

It would be great for you to share your experiences - ive only ever made use of alkaloid containing plants externally applied so im afraid I cant give any pointers personally. But I think,you are on the right path.

As for Magari, dont listen to him. [thumbup]

Nobody else does. It's supposedly quite easy to do magick sat in an armchair.

Thank you for this post. I can see that I probably will need to make a few scientific discoveries for this particular substance.
Most of those who practice the Art and use this substance often ingest it as Ayahuasca, so I cannot be sure of what to expect.
It's been a decent amount of time since my last blast off, and I've only had about 4 total. I'm curious as to what I can learn, but I'm rarely in an environment when doing the substance that I can take my time as needed. I *always* need a sitter to take the pipe from me (especially considering it's a 100 dollar vapor genie) or I will drop it. I'm often with my mate and my "shaman" when doing so. I call this man my shaman because he's lead me on every blast off that I've experienced, but he is not in any way familiar with the Arts (to my knowledge, at least. Obviously he has drug induced ideas and theories, but..)

Alkaloids are honestly something I've always stayed away from. I've heard too many death stories, and too many of them *will* kill you, given the chance.
I've been very interested in trying them, but it just isn't worth the risk to me. If I had an experienced witch make me a flying ointment, I would consider it, but I'd need to trust them heavily, which I do not often do for other practitioners.
Not to even mention scopolamine. That shit is terrifying.

As a final note/report, during (I believe) my last experience with DMT, I, for a short time, witnessed Brahma/Vishnu/Shiva as a massive entity towering over my center of perception, whom I floated past and into a tube of some sort. In this tunnel/tube thing, another entity appeared from within a doorway, and I saw Ultimate Truth for a split second. The entity attempted pulling me into the door using it's will and directing its finger, but I felt that I was unable to handle what was beyond the door, and I asked it to leave, which it promptly followed. It left me to my crazy trip induced state, and there were no more spiritual visions for the other 5 or so minutes of the experience. Just flashy colors and shapes, with a little bit of ecstasy.
I'm ready to see what is beyond that door, but I need to have faith in myself more than anything. This is why I posted this thread.
It's becoming increasingly difficult to find the answers to the questions I seek, as no human thus far has been able to answer my deepest few questions.


@Desecrated, if you do not wish to self-implicate yourself, then don't, because I will continue my discussion on DMT as I see fit. If you think it's unwise for you to post speaking on such matters, simply don't post. Posting questioning the legality of the matter only draws more attention to the subject when it is not needed. I'm aware of the implications of my actions, and everyone else should be of theirs as well. I, personally, don't care if someone unsavory should come across this, because regardless of who they are, they can not do a thing about what I've already learned, and I find doubt that any would prevent me from continuing to learn. I have ingested DMT, and I am proud of this fact. There was a time I foresaw dying without ever having experienced it, and that is a regret I would not have wanted for myself.
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Re: Meditation while under the influence of DMT?

Post by Yex »

It's been a good while since I've smoked DMT. When I had a source and was smoking it a fair amount, I did practice some meditation (and magick) on it, but at the time I was smoking it in a very ineffective method, and thus consuming only very small doses, so I really don't know if what you ask would be possible at a higher dose, even a sub-breakthrough one.

I would like to draw your attention, though, to the fact that there is another forum on the internet devoted primarily to the discussion of DMT. The calibre of conversation there is actually incredibly high for a drug forum. It would probably be worthwhile to bring up this question there. I'm not sure if it's kosher to post a link here, so if you can't find it, you can PM me.
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Re: Meditation while under the influence of DMT?

Post by magari »

I apologize that I shined a light on the problems you'd rather suppress than actually deal with.

And if I'm an armchair magician......

Nevermind.

Not a lot of tough love in this world. The majority obviously would rather plug their ears.

Your frustration is probably coming from your lack of discipline, or more importantly, integrity. We're you really going to leave the forum? Honestly? Or were you just looking for attention?

Back to the topic... you said you were looking to have your ego shredded. What do you think I'm doing to you?

You don't deserve my respect or my advice.

Try Morning Glory. It's like 5 dollars for a handful of seeds at home depot.

Again, the answers are right in front of you.

I'll post where I please until the powers that be (not you ) say otherwise.

Do the work.

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Re: Meditation while under the influence of DMT?

Post by Maya The Generator »

magari wrote:I apologize that I shined a light on the problems you'd rather suppress than actually deal with.
Correct me if I am wrong but I seen no light in your words, only more Shades.(for Haelos of course, I can safely assume your advice in my Dream tread helped me big)
magari wrote:And if I'm an armchair magician......

Nevermind.
I think you are not armchair magician, you spent some time in military service. I do not believe after time there person can come back easly to just being lazy.
magari wrote:Not a lot of tough love in this world. The majority obviously would rather plug their ears.

Your frustration is probably coming from your lack of discipline, or more importantly, integrity. We're you really going to leave the forum? Honestly? Or were you just looking for attention?

Back to the topic... you said you were looking to have your ego shredded. What do you think I'm doing to you?

You don't deserve my respect or my advice.
My experience says that when somebody needs to point out who deserve their respect often are not worth respect themselves.(WICKED!, Haelos respect your knowledge and you are being pain in his ass for that, very polite aproach from Haelos, not so much from you).

And If he do not deserve them why you serve them in his eyes? It only brings more tension.
magari wrote:Again, the answers are right in front of you.

I'll post where I please until the powers that be (not you ) say otherwise.

Do the work.
Then learn from that powers basics of not being a dick. It will help discuss with people and earn respect.
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If some assholes levels a twelve gauge your way, you drain him, skin him and bash in his skull. Self-preservation is vital part of humanity after all. My favorite part, in fact
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Re: Meditation while under the influence of DMT?

Post by Sypheara »

I say you are a armchair magician Magari as I feel you present us with an ego that far outstrips your ability.

The way you talk as if Haelos cares, or even wants, your respect is honestly quite comical.

I also see no fruit in your veiled and frankly useless contributions. When you see someone like Shin who posts detailed, well thought out posts, you instead offer cryptic posts along the lines of what id expect to see from snake oil salesmen.

You speak of integrity and discipline, except every one of your posts ive seen has seemingly lacked both of these traits.

Its not my job to have to call you out.. Frankly its a waste of my time. But i think you should takema step back from the keyboard and think about how much ego exudes from your posts.

I have a lot of experience. Im frank with people and dont take the softy soft approach. But there is something in your posts, a certain venom towards another individual, which does not sit well with me and seemingly others.
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Re: Meditation while under the influence of DMT?

Post by magari »

I'm a dick.

Fair enough.

The world is not nice.

Nor is it black and white.

My words are not for you guys.

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Re: Meditation while under the influence of DMT?

Post by Yex »

Magari, aside from anything else that's being said (which I can't really comment on, as I don't post much here), I'd like to bring up the point that the thing your arguing - that DMT is a worthless entheogen - seems a little questionable to me.

DMT of course has been used as an admixture is ayahuasca - a psychedelic whose trained shamanic specialists almost always practice ritual magick on the drug, have developed a specific system of ritual to properly utilize its effects, and regularly use it to heal others - but then, this thread addresses smoked DMT, which is sort of a different animal altogether. While it's true that the ayahuasqueros (ayahuasca shaman) I've talked to discourage people from smoking DMT, their perspective seems to be rooted in the concern of consuming such a powerful psychedelic without the necessary precautions (shamanic ritual, spiritual purification through dietary restrictions, et al), and outside of context of the other ayahuasca plants (while ayahuasca is often referred to as "oral DMT", the traditional perspective is a little different. The ayahuasca vine - the MAOI that allows you to consume DMT orally in the first place - is actually seen as the primary teacher, and it is said that the ayahuasca brings "the force" to the experience, while the DMT-containing plants merely provide "the vision". Additionally, there are usually other plants in the mix serving as spiritual guides).

As far as smoked DMT goes, I did recently read that when interest in psychedelics manifested in the west in the 50s, some of the people in the intellectual cliques that were exploring these realms (people like Aldous Huxley and Humphry Osmond, whose interest was in part spiritual), they found DMT unusable; the book I was reading didn't really provide insight into their rationale though (and I think they probably would have been injecting it, as opposed to smoking it).

However, the overwhelming majority of the reports of smoked DMT, published and anecdotal, point to a strong potential for intense spiritual experiences, both visionary and mystical. I could point to sources, but they're really too omnipresent to enumerate. There's also a good body of anecdotal evidence (a lot of it from the 60s) linking the act of smoking DMT to synchronicity, such that it affects those that aren't even smoking it. Smoked DMT has an almost mythical quality to it, and is often regarded as something of a Holy Grail to psychonauts.

Now, I'm certainly not saying that this negates your opinion - as evidence of this I've offered examples of those that shared your opinion - but as the majority of those that smoke DMT would seem to disagree with you, I'd like to hear about your experiences and what brought you to this point of view.
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Re: Meditation while under the influence of DMT?

Post by magari »

I never said DMT is worthless as an entheogen.

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Re: Meditation while under the influence of DMT?

Post by Sypheara »

magari wrote:Doesn't last long enough to do any real work.

Stick to other entheogens.
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Re: Meditation while under the influence of DMT?

Post by magari »

You realize your perspective is a choice right?

I maintain I never said DMT was "worthless".

Instead you might want to ask what I mean by "real work".

------------------------------------------------------
DMT comes on very quickly and can be extremely intense compared to other entheogens. This leaves most magickally immature individuals in a state of delirium and distracted by the "pretty lights". By the time they get a handle on things its over because the whole experience lasts minutes.

While its entirely possible to induce the effects without "blasting off", its still only a matter of minutes you're working with.

The intensity can be duplicated in other entheogens like LSD or Morning Glory if you "do the work". In other words don't waste your time and ask the right questions, and maintain focus, you can "blast off" just as easily. Its a matter of discipline.

I've lead these experiences for other people many times and these experiences can be induced completely sober if your mind and environment are right.

I have to use two hands to count the number of people who have told me that I've provided them with experiences they were only able to achieve alone with double and triple the dosage I provided them. Even then they had nowhere near the control.
------------------------------

I have used DMT as an entheogen before and will probably do so in the future, but again, if you're incapable of doing the work it won't get you very far. Its a very easy way to stimulate the third eye, but it takes discipline and energy to keep it running long enough to do "real work".

Haelos commits to leaving the forums, then returns. He says he wants to do this, but then asks about that.

My observation.... He lacks the discipline. He would get a lot more out of an entheogen that could sustain him long enough to ask the right questions.

He mentioned that my words brought up feelings and emotions from the past that he worked hard to suppress. That was the light I was talking about.

He says the world of full of "bad" people and that he spends most of his time with a single mate.

An experienced magician would know this to only be true to those individuals who are incapable of choosing otherwise.

He begs for ego death, but when its attacked he gives into it, lashing out with hostility.

Pretty easy read in my opinion.

You guys obviously feel attacked as well.

Check yourselves.

The snakeoil salesman comment was interesting. Its probably because I don't attach to any single paradigm and prefer to lean on the principals. They are the real teachers anyways. A lot of people learn the principals, but then cast them aside because they came to magick seeking to replace their reality with a fantasy. Its why most people turn to religion as it is. Same goes for the occult.

---------------

If all is one and one is all; As above, so below; As without, so within; why do we bother painting the landscape with angels, demons, pantheons, and the like. Why do we submit ourselves to spending fortunes on books, archaic ingredients, and fancy tools? A mystery I gave up solving. Its Another reason I avoid most of the posts on this forum.

I would never call anyone an armchair occultist, but instead I might refer to someone as a geardo. Its a term we used in the military for those individuals who were incapable of being a soldier, but had all the "cool-guy" equipment anyways.

You don't need an altar, a pack of tarot cards, or even a single book on the occult to be spiritually mature and a powerful magician. In my experience some of the most powerful magicians have a natural talent or belong to a tradition that instills these abilities in them as they grow up in this world. Even the ones who use the tools are plenty capable without them and do most of their work out in the open because the masses have no idea whats going on, and most of the occult community is so wrapped up in the details to realize that magickal ceremonies are being performed right in front of their eyes. A lot of these magicians don't even realize they are magicians or what they're doing works based on the principals of magick. They just feel lucky.

One of the biggest lies in modern magick is that a sigil must be forgotten in order to have power. The most powerful sigils out there are put on blast to the public eye's and ears. The public attaches their own emotions and feelings to these sigils which give the creator even more momentum towards achieving their goals.

Consider Grant Morrison's The Invisibles. A series of comic books where the author began living the life he wrote about while he was writing it.

Consider this....
Now I don't know these people personally, but its obvious whats going on if you open your eyes.

Magick, spiritual development, and the secrets of the occult are found in doing the work. There is no easy solution, but entheogens are invaluable tools. Its probably why most of them are found very easily in nature.

http://iamshaman.com/eshop/10Expand.asp ... de=MGB-1OZ

3000 seeds for 20 bucks! Why bother with DMT?

But you all know this already. [clown]

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Re: Meditation while under the influence of DMT?

Post by Sypheara »

'Perspective is a choice' is basically word salad that means nothing.

In the context of your post, it was impossible to take it in any other way. To maintain you actually meant it in any other way is entirely disingenuous.

You could have instead offered your experience on DMT as a matter of course rather than patronising him in broad daylight, and then trying to worm your way out of admitting it.

If you have the experience to offer to someone to help them, then do it. To laud over people you are supposedly imparting teaching to is a sign of a man with poor character.

He says the world is full of 'bad' people. I would agree, given the state of the world, that he isn't particularly incorrect. Just on sheer numbers, there is more suffering now than there has ever been. How he chooses to deal with that reality is his personal choice.

You say that a experienced magickian would know those to only be true to those incapable of choosing otherwise. This is clearly nonsense - you can shift your perspective as much as you like, it doesn't change reality. Directed will, utilizing method to change that reality yes, but purely shifting your perspective is simply engaging in self delusion.

It is human nature to defend oneself - regardless of whether one wishes for ego death or otherwise, unless its been attained. Taking the high road is also fine when one isnt part of a community.

No I don't feel attacked Magari - I am just sick of your posts that offer nothing. Or when they do, you wrap it up with bullshit that is condescending to the reader rather than simply stating your point. The fact that few have the balls to seemingly challenge you on it surprises me.

You apparently also seem to know everything about this man, believing he is a simple and easy read, despite saying 'not everything is black and white' which i find rather interesting.

All is not one, and one is not all. This is a new age / mystical fallacy when applied to the real world. Whilst everything came from ALL, it is almost a self evident fact that everything has self individuated as creation has BECOME. Therefore currently, things are separate. That is how individual egos are able to strive in conflict, and oppose the other, and for various contradicting forces to exist. Whilst they all depend on the other, have the same source, they are not one. Or they would not be at all.

I get that you believe that Chaos Magick can explain everything.

I happen to also think that such a position is complete horseshit.

Whilst there are many Chaos Magicians and their techniques I respect, it also ers very dangerously to a spiritual solipsism I personally have no time or day for. I incorporate what I find useful from it, admit it has merit, then get on with things as no 'paradigm' alone is sufficient.

The fact that you pretty much write off herb lore, spirit lore, and many other staples of Magick as having no value shows how naive you are. For someone who is always going on about strength of will, leave the disabled to die in ditches etc mentality, I find it amusing that you gave up on it without putting in the Work to come to understand its purpose and value.

Surely the best soldier is the soldier who is physically and mentally the most prepared, as well as the best equipped. It doesnt take one to be a former soldier to work that out.

No you are right. You dont need an altar, a pack of tarot cards, or a single book on the occult to be spiritually mature. But especially with books, why hamstring yourself intellectually and not explore differing avenues, differing viewpoints, incorporate into your own work? To not explore other avenues constantly, and constantly strive for improvement by doing both practical Work and Research, is to rest on ones laurels and grow a false sense of superiority in ones own way which breeds arrogance.

What work is is that you do Magari that reveals Occult secrets or brings any advancement? Especially outside of yourself? Sigil working isnt secret. They havnt been since spare waved his sigillised cock around in the early 20th century.

Advertising isnt magic. Its what it is - advertising, psychology. Calling this magic is quite laughable - its base, its easy, there is no effort to it. Psychology class 101 on how to manipulate people into buying products is not doing 'work'. Work is advancing something, the field, soul transmutation, improving the world. Ie the Great Work. The rest is literally just pointless ape noise.

I'll need more than a few Drake videos to be convinced to say the least.
'Flores noctis sumus atque alas pandimus, In profundis tenebrarum.'
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magari
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Re: Meditation while under the influence of DMT?

Post by magari »

[rofl]

You're an easy read too.

I maintain that your perspective is your choice.

Sorry I trampled your fairy circle.

Been there, done that.

Don't have time for it.

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Re: Meditation while under the influence of DMT?

Post by magari »

This thread derailed.

I apologize for stepping on toes.

I have big feet.

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