Shamanism/Magick.

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Micr0cosM
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Shamanism/Magick.

Post by Micr0cosM »

Hi,

I have been into the practice of magick for a while now and have a bit of experience of most aspects of it. I have good success with my work in this regard and it has significantly improved my life and my relationship to the universe, and I have plans to progress in each of the different magickal fields in some way at some time.

Recently however synchronicity has been pointing me at the techniques of shamanism. I have been using repetitive drum beats and flashing lights to enter trance states as part of the process of gnosis employed by chaos magick, so it is a natural step for me to use this technique for shamanic journeying also. So I got a few books on shamanism and I have been reading about the techniques and worldview.

Now, I am not completely new to this as, back in the 90's, when I was in my late teens/early 20's my fiends and I would take a load of psychedelics and go into the wilderness and like talk to trees and stuff, and I did have several revelatory experiences including shape shifting and shared dreams and the like, but we didn't do it in a systematic way and we didn't follow a path of initiation or a tradition, obviously.

I would now like to do this work a little more seriously and with the aim of gathering protective entities to help me in my work and to help heal my loved ones. I would also, for now, like to do it without the use of psychedelics. I would like to be able to use these techniques using drums, as getting drugs is difficult for me at present and would put to risk a major life decision I am in the middle of making.

I am noticing that the techniques and worldview is a bit different than that of magick. Magick seems to me to be like a form of communication, between other entities, your unconscious, your HGA, Gods, God, whatever. Whereas Shamanism seems more about stepping into the otherworld and meeting entities and gaining helpers and learning secrets.

Does anyone have experience of these worlds crossing. Such as do you meet your patron/matron Gods while journeying? Can you employ the help of servitors on these journeys? Can you use an otherworld journey to launch a sigil?

I did my first journey a couple of days ago, where I put on a recording of drum beats that was about half an hour long and did an underworld visualisation. It just felt like I was kind of making it up as I went and didn't feel like it was significant at the time, but when I wrote it down and read it the next day it was dense with symbolism and contained a load of themes that i subsequently read are common to shamanic journeys, so at least I feel like I am on the right track in pursuing this.

Any advice or information would be appreciated.

Thanks.
“Science is a way of talking about the universe in words that bind it to a common reality.
Magic is a method of talking to the universe in words that it cannot ignore.
The two are rarely compatible.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Books of Magic

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Re: Shamanism/Magick.

Post by Desecrated »

There isn't really that much difference between the techniques used in witchcraft, shamanism or magic. An altered state is an altered state.

However, getting there without the drugs is hard. Very hard. And you need to practice a lot before something actually happens. And because our brain is individual some might never be able to get results without the drugs, and some don't even get results on the drugs. And some bastards just get results with almost no training.

So what you need to do is to strengthen your imagination.
You need to meditate, you need to do visualization exercises and you need to do "fake/pretend" traveling a lot before you finally get a results that feels different than just daydreaming or fantasizing.
Some also find it very helpful to do relaxation exercises to be able to get into a trance state in the first place.

Fasting, staying awake for long period of times and other methods to achieve an altered state is of course possible, but just like the drugs. It isn't exactly safe.

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Re: Shamanism/Magick.

Post by Micr0cosM »

I have been considering lucid dreaming also, as I used to have them all the time and am able to exert a decent amount of control over them, but at the time it didn't occur to me to use them for a purpose.
“Science is a way of talking about the universe in words that bind it to a common reality.
Magic is a method of talking to the universe in words that it cannot ignore.
The two are rarely compatible.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Books of Magic

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Re: Shamanism/Magick.

Post by Desecrated »

Micr0cosM wrote:I have been considering lucid dreaming also, as I used to have them all the time and am able to exert a decent amount of control over them, but at the time it didn't occur to me to use them for a purpose.
Lucid dreaming and astral projections can be useful. Not really the same thing, but worth a try.

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Re: Shamanism/Magick.

Post by Micr0cosM »

So while I was researching lucid dreaming someone recommended an herb called Calea zacatechichi, which gives vivid dreams and increases the chance of lucidity. Might give that a look see. :)
“Science is a way of talking about the universe in words that bind it to a common reality.
Magic is a method of talking to the universe in words that it cannot ignore.
The two are rarely compatible.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Books of Magic

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Re: Shamanism/Magick.

Post by DivineFairy »

@Micr0cosm I have had several sessions with two different Shamans this past year and it was pretty intense... and expensive! Journeying is considered a sacred act performed only by experienced Shamans who have been "chosen" and then initiated for lack of a better term.

Recently I got a book written by a Shaman named Alberto Villoldo that explains in laymans terms how to do a Shamanic Journey as well as a Soul Retrieval and a few other techniques. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to to post the name of the book because I'm new to the forum and don't want to break any rules. But a simple google search of the authors name should suffice. He does not seem to hold the same perspective I've seen as other Shamans who literally warn people never to attempt a journey without an experienced Shaman. He does however explain in detail what needs to be done in order to protect yourself whilst traveling into other realms. Which I think is a necessity the same way you'd want to do a protection ritual or banishing when practicing some styles or rituals of Magick.

I've tried a few journeys and recently met my Spirit Animal which was the coolest thing ever. I've had similar experiences like you while meditating and then feeling like I had made stuff up in my head but this was very different. And truly enlightening. Hope that helps! :)

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Re: Shamanism/Magick.

Post by Cerber »

DivineFairy wrote: I've tried a few journeys and recently met my Spirit Animal which was the coolest thing ever.
May I ask what was it?
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Re: Shamanism/Magick.

Post by DivineFairy »

Oh and forgot to add... in regards to your specific questions on Servitors or Sigils in the underworld...

I really don't know. But your guides do. So if it were me I'd do a Shamanic Journey (after learning the dos and donts so you don't accidently bring something back with you!) and once in the underworld ask to speak to one of your guides or helpers and if they show themselves ask them those same questions. And trust what you see or hear. Keep in mind sometimes the answer comes in a symbolic rather than literal way. Or it may not come in that moment at all but rather as a coincidence or message in real life. I have my own opinion of whether bringing along a Servitor or launching a Sigil would be beneficial... but my opinion doesn't really matter when it's all said and done. Xoxo

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Re: Shamanism/Magick.

Post by DivineFairy »

@Cerber

It was a bear! A Grizzly Bear. I'd always thought it'd be a hummingbird or butterfly or something delicate and etheric.. but no. He was badass. Enormous and fierce but I never felt scared. He charged me and then got up close and licked my nose. Wrapped his paws around me and I started to cry. Felt so loved and protected. I asked him one by one about issues and problems I need guidance on and he addressed each... without words

Sounds crazy but the emotions that surfaced along with a deep feeling of safety was palpatble. :)

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Re: Shamanism/Magick.

Post by Cerber »

DivineFairy wrote:@Cerber

It was a bear! A Grizzly Bear. I'd always thought it'd be a hummingbird or butterfly or something delicate and etheric.. but no. He was badass. Enormous and fierce but I never felt scared. He charged me and then got up close and licked my nose. Wrapped his paws around me and I started to cry. Felt so loved and protected. I asked him one by one about issues and problems I need guidance on and he addressed each... without words

Sounds crazy but the emotions that surfaced along with a deep feeling of safety was palpatble. :)
Sounds like amazing experience. Thank you for sharing [wink]
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Re: Shamanism/Magick.

Post by Micr0cosM »

Thanks for the replies DivineFairy, I am looking into Alberto Villoldo's stuff now. I am eager to learn the techniques necessary for journeying safely. I have a wee bit of experience with magick and I have been starting any attempts at journeying with the same meditation and banishing/invoking as I would use for any other ritual. I understand that this is a different system and that the rules are different though so I am still mostly in the research stage with this.

I did another journey, almost by accident. I decided to use a dream machine along with the drums to induce a suitable trance then I visualised the tree that I used in my first journey, just to see if I could visualise accurately along with the flashing lights. Visualising was just as easy but when I approached the tree I was kind of sucked into it and had another lower world experience where I felt like I became a marine animal and was swimming under the ocean. It was very interesting. There was more to it that I don't feel like I should share.

I feel like I want to just jump into this and see what happens like I did with Magick, but I know I need to learn how to not mess it up first. ;)
“Science is a way of talking about the universe in words that bind it to a common reality.
Magic is a method of talking to the universe in words that it cannot ignore.
The two are rarely compatible.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Books of Magic

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Re: Shamanism/Magick.

Post by Micr0cosM »

Oh and I have been thinking a bit in regard to servitors and patron gods and stuff. I don't think I should use either in my shamanic journeys as my servitors take the form of animals and so do some of my patron gods. I think using animal shaped servitors and gods associated with animals in the context of shamanic journeys where you are likely to meet power animals, helper spirits and other entities in the form of animals would just confuse things.

Thanks again for sharing your experiences.
“Science is a way of talking about the universe in words that bind it to a common reality.
Magic is a method of talking to the universe in words that it cannot ignore.
The two are rarely compatible.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Books of Magic

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Re: Shamanism/Magick.

Post by DivineFairy »

That's awesome Micr0cosm! Yes agreed that Servitors patrons etc should not be included in a Journey.

The book I got is titled, "Mending the past and healing the future wth soul retrieval." It is a book on soul retrieval but it has step by step instructions on how to prepare for a journey and a specific prayer/invocation you say to call on the Four Directions. It also has a very simple breathing exercise ( deep breathe counting to 7... hold for 7 seconds.. slow breathe out for 7 seconds... hold for 7 seconds and repeat 7 times) that gets you into a trance state quick. If you jump on Amazon and find his book there are a ton of reviews from folks who've used his techniques.

To my knowledge Shamanic Journeys are more about healing an issue rather than performing Magick. There may be actual Shamanic Magick but that does not seem to be the purpose when one goes on a journey. However if you address and mend an issue whilst traveling the results in real life could be magical. Shamanism is the oldest form of medicine and healing there is and every ancient culture had some form of it only under different names.

The Underworld is simply your subconscious. The Middle World is your Conscience. And the Upper World is the Super Conscience. And Soul Retrieval is a way to go into your subconscious to heal "parts" of you that have left. You Journey to the underworld to "retrieve" that part of you and bring it back into your soul. In psychology today those parts would be referred to what's called "splitting" I believe. That's when you have had a trauma and a part of your personality splits off. The extreme form of this is multiple personalities. But it's completely normal for everyone to have soul parts that left because of trauma. It doesn't have to be a big trauma either, because the 2 year old you got traumatized over some pretty trivial things from an adults perspective. But to the 2 year old it was life or death.

Spirit animals and guides are also in the Underworld. So you can use a Journey to go and meet one and ask for help. You may see your marine animals experience in a different light now knowing that.

My assumption is you wanted to bring along Servitors or Patrons because you have something specific you're trying to manifest with Magick. So instead of journeying to perform Magick, see if you can get guidance on how to heal whatever's blocking you from getting what you want or ask if you can come in contact with your future self where what you wanted has already happened. That's kinda a reverse visualization technique if that makes sense.

I'm curious about your marine Journey but only if you feel comfortable sharing :)

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Re: Shamanism/Magick.

Post by Micr0cosM »

My original interest in this post was to see how magick and shamanism would interact, but from what I have been reading I think I should treat them as two completely different things. Although I will still start all my magick and journeying with a banishing ritual and centring meditation, but that is just to get into correct frame of mind.

I just got that book you recommended. It was fairly cheap on kindle. I will start it tonight. Thanks for the recommendation.

The book I am reading at the moment, "The way of the shaman" by Michael Harner, he says its not necessarily a good idea to tell people your power animal at first, so I am going to let that info sit in my mind for a while until I feel comfortable talking about it.

However I will tell you about the first journey I tried.

I used a drum track that I got along with the Harner book, and put it loud on headphones. I find getting into a trance state quite easy now as I have a lot of practice using drums and mind machines for a couple of years now so this felt natural.
My entrance to the underworld is a huge oak tree in middle of a field. Its night and slightly cool, but its bright as the stars are clear and abundant and the full moon is visible through the branches. There is a large dark hole in the ancient trunk, more like an opening that the tree itself formed. I carefully climb in and begin my descent down a musty smelling but slightly warm dirt tunnel. The dirt tunnel opens a bit and becomes more clay like, but still with roots projecting from the damp walls. I can see quite clearly now as there are old wooden torches in ornate brass holders at intervals along one side.

As I walk I notice an old wooden door with a black iron handle, I open it shedding light into a small room. There is a large rabbit in it, who looks me in the eye but says nothing. I ask it "What can you teach me?" as this is what the book suggests you do when you encounter an animal. The rabbit replies in an English accent, "build a strong burrow" then it turns away and gets on with its business. (Its not until afterwards that I realise that going down a tunnel and meeting a rabbit is just like Alice in wonderland and it makes me think that a shamanic journey might be the origin of the book.)

I close the door return to the tunnel which is now more like a stone corridor. The corridor ends as the opening to a large cave. The cave is lit by shafts of silvery moonlight streaming through holes on the ceiling. A small bubbling stream meanders through the cave going underground at the far side. There is grass on the ground and the floor rises steeply in the centre to make a sort of grassy hill but with a steep drop on the distant side. At the top of this hill is a small tree sparkling in a shaft of moonlight. The air is cool and clear and there is a magical feeling to the scene.

I walk slowly up the hill towards the little tree, taking time to feel the grass between my toes and listen to the sound of the stream. As I approach the tree I can see there is a small brightly coloured snake wrapped around it about halfway up and level with my face so I ask it "What can you teach me?" The snake immediately strikes me in the face embedding its venomous fangs into my cheek. Naturally I am shocked and I stare dumbly at the snake which is now looking me right in the eyes. It says in a matter of fact tone "Transmute the poison." Then goes back to coiling around the tree. I stand there for a moment not sure if I had just been attacked or informed. I then leave to explore the rest of the cave. I sit on the bank of the stream and dangle my feet in the cool water but I have the feeling that I have learned all I need at this point so I return to the tunnel and make my way out through the tree again.

I have been interested in shamanism as a means for me to help heal a loved one that is dealing with both physical and mental illness. So I choose to interpret this experience within that context.

The rabbits comment was obvious to me that I need to make a safe physical environment for my loved one.

When I researched the "Transmute the poison" comment in the context of shamanism I found that there is a type of Shaman that literally ingest snake venom as part of their initiation which makes them able to then heal illness. Obviously this isn't something I would do but it is interesting.

My loved one has a panic disorder and I recently got control of my anxiety disorder, so I choose to interpret this comment as my ability to be able to listen to my loved ones panicked thoughts and help her to calm down by maintaining my own state of equanimity while I am dealing with these incidents.

I remain open to other interpretations also.

The experience was an eye opener, like finding out there is a whole world with its own rules and inhabitants right there all the time. It was like waking from a really important vivid dream but being completely aware the whole time. Its something I intend spend some time on.
“Science is a way of talking about the universe in words that bind it to a common reality.
Magic is a method of talking to the universe in words that it cannot ignore.
The two are rarely compatible.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Books of Magic

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Re: Shamanism/Magick.

Post by DivineFairy »

Wow I m speechless! For someone who was feeling like they were making things up in their head initially I'm hoping you see how powerful your journey was. And your recap and writing of it all was so vivid.

I did not know that about spirit animals. And here I just voiced mine to an online forum. Oops.. did the author explain why it's best to keep your animal secret?

I have so many thoughts about your journey that my head is swimming. But I will say that the first thing that popped into my head when you spoke of the ancients ingesting snake venom was a Homeopathic remedy made from the actual venom. Homeopathy is one of my main loves and I've studied and read a ton of info on it last few years.

If you're open to it, google "Homeopathic snake remedy" and make a list of the names of each remedy. Then go to any Materia Medica online and look at the symptoms and see if any match you or your loved one. Here's a Materia Medica from one of the main doctors that influenced this set of healing

https://www.vithoulkas.com/learning-too ... y-Boericke


Keep in mind... Homeopathy is over 200 years old and the original case studies (the Materia Medicas) are written in somewhat of an archaic language. They are also examples of extreme cases of each remedy so realize that some symptoms are in advanced stages and will not pertain to everyone. If you'd like I can guide you to different remedies and sites but I'll wait to hear back from you before I fill a Magick forum with information on curing ailments homeopathically. It's kinda off topic... but not really

What I will say is I have personally experienced and helped others with profound changes in mental emotional and physical ailments through the use of Homeopathy. And I find it very interesting that I just started dabbling and learning about Shamanic Journeying and stumble into an online forum where you mention the use of Snake venom... as I'm reading online about Homeopathy.

Bottom line is... you can achieve same results by taking a homeopathic remedy of the venom without ingesting the poison itself. Whether this guidance is for you or for your loved one I don't know

As far as the Viddolo book... the first few chapters are really cool as he goes over his own journey of becoming a Shaman and learning the art from actual Shamans in the rainforest. He has many references to mythological parables that tie into the collective unconscious that are really fascinating. It's a very easy read because it's so interesting. I'm not even finished yet as I got sidetracked with other books but I've made it to the part where he breaks down step by step how to travel. Sounds like the book you already have had given you a great foundation as well. I'm gonna check it out too. Thanks for sharing! Xoxo

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Re: Shamanism/Magick.

Post by Cerber »

DivineFairy wrote:
I did not know that about spirit animals. And here I just voiced mine to an online forum. Oops.. did the author explain why it's best to keep your animal secret?
That's why I made sure I'll ask before any more cautious ppl will start giving warnings [crazy]
But for a compensation here is a token for you of Fair Trade: valid for 7 years, can be exchanged any time withing that time to either 1 truthful and honest public answer or 3 private answers to any question to the best of this one's abilities. To use it you have to state you are invoking this token before submitting your query. Cheers [gz]
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Re: Shamanism/Magick.

Post by Micr0cosM »

I did not know that about spirit animals. And here I just voiced mine to an online forum. Oops.. did the author explain why it's best to keep your animal secret?
I consider it to be the same about any magickal work. I don't tell anyone about any magick I am actively working on. After it is done and I have seen results I might talk about it if it seems like it will help someone or is particularly relevant. I think that telling someone about an act of magick can draw criticism or disbelief or disapproval and even the slightest hint of either of those can weaken your belief in yourself or the act in question, and magick is powered by belief.

So if I found that my power animal was a squirrel and to me that revelation makes perfect sense and I can see the squirrels best attributes in my own personality and am happy to explore it more then I tell someone and they react by making fun of squirrels because they don't like them or think they are silly or such then it lessens the power of that experience for me, especially if that person is someone I look up to.

However, clearly you are at peace with your power animal and I doubt that anyone would try to criticise something as awesome as Grizzly Bear. Besides, you have a power animal, and its a freakin Grizzly Bear so I don't think someone commenting on a forum is likely to bother you much. So don't worry about it. ;)

I will definitely look into the connection with snake venom homeopathy, thanks.
“Science is a way of talking about the universe in words that bind it to a common reality.
Magic is a method of talking to the universe in words that it cannot ignore.
The two are rarely compatible.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Books of Magic

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Re: Shamanism/Magick.

Post by Cerber »

That sounds like you have got a weakness. My current spiritual guide is a fictional cartoon character, not even a horde of million trolls can make me doubt it, because I believe what I see, not what anybody else thinks I should believe or what books tell me to believe. Some people believe what they read in books, now that's what I call crazy [oh]
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Re: Shamanism/Magick.

Post by Shawn Blackwolf »

The Shaman / Witches / Masons / Druid / Faery Tree , from long ago...

With the video of Alice you might like to see...
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Re: Shamanism/Magick.

Post by Shawn Blackwolf »

In my tradition , which is a Faery Tradition , we use

an eleven dimensional tree , in an arrangement of

seven central realms , surrounded by four realms...

The seven , from the bottom up :

Realm Of The Ancestors

Underworld

Gate To Below Realms

Portal

Gate To Above Realms

Astral World

Upper World

( by one way of saying them )...

The four surrounding the Portal , are the realms of

Water , Air , Fire , and Earth...

Black Water in North

Yellow Air in East

White Fire in South

Red Earth in West

There are pairs of symbols for each realm , with levels

of meaning , including numerical values...

By numerical value , the central seven pairs equal 1151...

Which , in gematria , equal :

Blue = 850

Fire = 301

The four pairs of elements , by numerical value , equal 344...

Which happens to equal :

Wood = 344

Door = 344

Dreaming Body = 344

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Re: Shamanism/Magick.

Post by Shawn Blackwolf »

Can anyone tell me how to post a You Tube video here on this site ?

I clicked you tube button , but doesn't seem to want to embed video... [lookleft]

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Re: Shamanism/Magick.

Post by Micr0cosM »

I wish I had that much conviction. Yes, it is definitely a weakness. Fixing my weaknesses is what attracted me to magick and shamanism in the first place. The majority of my magick these days is about making myself better.

My experience of working magick has led to undeniable results. At first it was almost scary how well some things worked. So I don't have a problem believing in magick and my use of it.

However, I don't yet have complete control of my mind and I worry how other peoples opinions of say, my power animal, might filter through to my mind when I am in a journey, so I choose not to share it until I have more experiences of it myself.
“Science is a way of talking about the universe in words that bind it to a common reality.
Magic is a method of talking to the universe in words that it cannot ignore.
The two are rarely compatible.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Books of Magic

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Re: Shamanism/Magick.

Post by Micr0cosM »

Shawn, where does this system come from? How would you use it?
“Science is a way of talking about the universe in words that bind it to a common reality.
Magic is a method of talking to the universe in words that it cannot ignore.
The two are rarely compatible.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Books of Magic

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Re: Shamanism/Magick.

Post by Shawn Blackwolf »

It has been called many names , in many cultures through time...

You may travel the tree...there are different arrangements of symbols...

There are songs that go with them...

You may weave the symbols together , as bind runes , petroglyphic figures ,
designs for baskets or blankets , the human skeleton...

You can use it for magic and healing...defense or attack...

You can use it to open portals , raise cones of power...

The question is...what do you want to do , to accomplish ?

I shall post some other sheets frrom the Tradition...

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Re: Shamanism/Magick.

Post by Shawn Blackwolf »

Here are some other sheets...

I have been teaching this for 23 + years...
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