Coincidence?

OneOfFourth
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Coincidence?

Post by OneOfFourth »

Well that sucked...

Long story short:

A week or two ago I had tried to see if I can open a visualized mental "portal" into another person's mind to see what's in there. Never tried anything like it before. The experiment seemed to fail, as on the other side was just complete darkness and lots of entities of some kind far away in the distance. I backed away from the portal and closed it shut.

Yesterday I decided to see what that other side contained and if it was even real or just my imagination. I opened the mental portal again and went through it in my minds eye. Again same visuals: complete black but this time there were quite a few entities right outside the portal. One or two seemed to push their way through to this side and I mentally forced them back in and went through it myself also. I remembered reading on these forums to act respectfully and be polite when meeting new entities so I tried doing just that. I said "Hello" when couple of them were right in my face, morphing between weird visuals of semi-decipherable shapes into another. I didn't do what I usually do to the spirits I meet (commanding each and everyone of them immediately, by force, not to do anything to me). Couple of the entities came right to my face and after a few seconds one of them slided through my head. I felt this weird buzzing sensation in the back of my brain. Then the feeling went away. I decided that the entities weren't nearly as polite as I had hoped and I jumped away from the vision.

This morning I got a call that the person I hold the most dear in my life had suddenly had a strong seizure, lost consciousness and was taken to a hospital. Initial MRI didn't reveal anything out of ordinary. The person is currently in quite a bad mental shape.

Only this evening I started suspecting that the two incidents could be connected to each other. I asked my usual guiding spirit(s) to share light on the topic if this was done by the "buzzing sensation" entity from yesterday. I received "yes" answer. I did a confirmation question about it and received the same answer again.

If I received the right answer and was not deceived, I guess I have to be more careful, since there can be collateral damage while learning the basics of magickal arts.

Again: not fun at all. Sucks big time :( It wasn't a close call. It was a disaster.


EDIT:
I was wondering what that place was I saw in my minds eye. I received an answer (if I'm not deceived) that it was Abyss. I don't recommend visiting that place to anyone.
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Re: Coincidence?

Post by Amor »

Wandering around in unidentified mental spaces is dangerous. Free food and karma come to mind.

Required skills include:

- controlling the level of consciousness so as to target the mindspace entry
- controlling one's thoughts to limit the actions of visitors
- controlling one's own light-dark balance

And a suitable entity to mind the back.


>that it was Abyss.

The term Abyss comes from the Sumerian Apsu - the underworld ocean inhabited by Enki.
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2 ... ceans.html

Magical uses of the term are rather loose. Better perhaps to identify planes/subplanes, light-dark balance, dominant entity types, relevant planet etc

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Re: Coincidence?

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From the Abyss I didn't get Sumerian connotations. I felt it had much more to do with Tree of Life.

EDIT:
Yep, every time I happen to think about the place being related to Tree of Life, my synchronizities are shouting "yes".
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Re: Coincidence?

Post by Amor »

The Abyss in the ToL is supposed to be above the personality levels. So what went wrong?

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Re: Coincidence?

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I have absolutely no idea. The point that I didn't end up in someones mind in the first try but to someplace completely different was the biggest surprise for me.
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Re: Coincidence?

Post by Amor »

>if I can open a visualized mental "portal"

Doing this in an uncontrolled space is an open invitation to any predators with an interest in you or your family cluster

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Re: Coincidence?

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Hmm, how do they come through? Is it a clear analogy to have the "door open" even if I go through it? I.e. I need to close it behind me if I go through it to prevent anything coming to this side?

I'm asking because at some point I'm going back. This time I do what I have always done: command anything that approaches me not to do anything. Has always worked so far, regardless of what entity has approached me. Should still work there also.
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Re: Coincidence?

Post by Amor »

>Should still work there also.

It is good to be positive

Still, how do you know that you are the main creator of what you wish to be a portal?

How do you know what is real beyond the apparent portal?

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Re: Coincidence?

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Not sure what you mean.

I created the portal. What's on the other side seemed to be some spirit realm/plane/whatever they are called. All spirits, so far, have reacted every time I've commanded them when I've ran into them. Only couple of exceptions have happened, but those I think were most probably a human and not a spirit.

Just to clarify:
The mental portal I created in my minds eye was octagon shaped frame, which had a hole in the middle which I could seal shut whenever I wanted. I first imagined it and decided where the other side should lead. Then I opened it and went through it to the other side.
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Re: Coincidence?

Post by Amor »

>I created the portal.

How many assumptions/beliefs can you find in that statement?

How can you test them?

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Re: Coincidence?

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OneOfFourth wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:40 pm Well that sucked...

Long story short:

A week or two ago I had tried to see if I can open a visualized mental "portal" into another person's mind to see what's in there. Never tried anything like it before. The experiment seemed to fail, as on the other side was just complete darkness and lots of entities of some kind far away in the distance. I backed away from the portal and closed it shut.

Yesterday I decided to see what that other side contained and if it was even real or just my imagination. I opened the mental portal again and went through it in my minds eye. Again same visuals: complete black but this time there were quite a few entities right outside the portal. One or two seemed to push their way through to this side and I mentally forced them back in and went through it myself also. I remembered reading on these forums to act respectfully and be polite when meeting new entities so I tried doing just that. I said "Hello" when couple of them were right in my face, morphing between weird visuals of semi-decipherable shapes into another. I didn't do what I usually do to the spirits I meet (commanding each and everyone of them immediately, by force, not to do anything to me). Couple of the entities came right to my face and after a few seconds one of them slided through my head. I felt this weird buzzing sensation in the back of my brain. Then the feeling went away. I decided that the entities weren't nearly as polite as I had hoped and I jumped away from the vision.

This morning I got a call that the person I hold the most dear in my life had suddenly had a strong seizure, lost consciousness and was taken to a hospital. Initial MRI didn't reveal anything out of ordinary. The person is currently in quite a bad mental shape.

Only this evening I started suspecting that the two incidents could be connected to each other. I asked my usual guiding spirit(s) to share light on the topic if this was done by the "buzzing sensation" entity from yesterday. I received "yes" answer. I did a confirmation question about it and received the same answer again.

If I received the right answer and was not deceived, I guess I have to be more careful, since there can be collateral damage while learning the basics of magickal arts.

Again: not fun at all. Sucks big time :( It wasn't a close call. It was a disaster.


EDIT:
I was wondering what that place was I saw in my minds eye. I received an answer (if I'm not deceived) that it was Abyss. I don't recommend visiting that place to anyone.
Just for reference, most practicioners are FAR more cautious than I am.
Caution? Paranoia? Same thing? maybe, maybe not. *shrug*
my low ebb of caution doesn't exist in a vacuum apart from experience & know how though.
Also i fundamentally value knowledge more than safety. so there's that.

one thought on being polite, when I'm polite & congenial with entities which give the impression they don't often get along well with others, I'm... "vaguely forcefully polite" Just a hint, an unspoken "however you thought this interaction would go down, this is how this interaction is in fact going down". Bit of an air of gentleness born of strength, and taking control over the interaction. It's genuinely and honestly polite and friendly. But if they have particularly ill intent, it can come across as very subtly but very potently intimidating. Maybe call it "claiming agency, but not brandishing it", but claiming it, like an immutable force of nature. As much a benevolence as a humility. Genuine desire to fraternize and mutually enjoy the company, but with a subtext of wearing a weighty presence.

Maybe call it "deliberately gentle, assertive friendliness", a relaxed self assured affability. Which is very very different from worrisome friendliness. A nervous friendliness is a bit like blood in the water ;)
It's so much more how you say it, than what you say.

Much the same sensibilities as getting along with dogs (even ones of ill temper). The empathic subtext is everything.

(making a wild assumtion you might have been referencing me on the being chill with entities)


As for looking into the mind's eye of another person. Sounds like a really interesting idea. Inter-mind stuff is definitely up my alley. How'd you go about it?

Also curious by what you mean by "abyss"

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Re: Coincidence?

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Kath wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:32 am Also i fundamentally value knowledge more than safety. so there's that.
Me too. Being too safe teaches nothing but staying stagnant in life.

Kath wrote:one thought on being polite, when I'm polite & congenial with entities which give the impression they don't often get along well with others, I'm... "vaguely forcefully polite" Just a hint, an unspoken "however you thought this interaction would go down, this is how this interaction is in fact going down". Bit of an air of gentleness born of strength, and taking control over the interaction. It's genuinely and honestly polite and friendly. But if they have particularly ill intent, it can come across as very subtly but very potently intimidating. Maybe call it "claiming agency, but not brandishing it", but claiming it, like an immutable force of nature. As much a benevolence as a humility. Genuine desire to fraternize and mutually enjoy the company, but with a subtext of wearing a weighty presence.

Maybe call it "deliberately gentle, assertive friendliness", a relaxed self assured affability. Which is very very different from worrisome friendliness. A nervous friendliness is a bit like blood in the water ;)
It's so much more how you say it, than what you say.

Much the same sensibilities as getting along with dogs (even ones of ill temper). The empathic subtext is everything.

(making a wild assumtion you might have been referencing me on the being chill with entities)
I don't remember who it was. I read some post a week or two ago. Might have been you :) Can't remember anymore.

But I definitely have to try that kind of attitude the next time I'm confronted with spirits of anykind. Kind of like "I'm nice but don't even try to mess with me" friendliness/attitude.

Kath wrote:As for looking into the mind's eye of another person. Sounds like a really interesting idea. Inter-mind stuff is definitely up my alley. How'd you go about it?
Well, obviously the wrong way because of what happened. I didn't obviously end up into anyone's mind but to some completely different place which had nothing to do with humans. Or maybe I did end up in the right place but botched the portal creation process... Who knows?

If I remember correctly what I did, I first emptied my mind. Then I imagined sending an energy rope of sorts towards the person's consciousness. Then I followed it and entered some place. The place felt that it might have contained images of someone's mind OR it could have been only my imagination. I wasn't sure which one it was, but it didn't stop me from taking the next step: I visualized myself creating a physical portal/doorway right infront of me in that place, which I could step through at later time to enter that exact same space/place. After that I "jumped out" from my vision. (can't remember for sure anymore, but I might have stepped through the portal into my current surroundings, to connect the two places.)

(EDIT: Forgot to mention that after first going back to my own place through the portal, I closed and opened it again and went back through it. This is when I saw pure black with lots of entities (hundreds? thousands?) far away in the distance. Just tiny bluish dots as they were so far away. At this point I jumped back again and the story continues as described below.)

Then week or two later I decided to test what happens when I visualize that portal I had created earlier, open it and step through it. The rest you can read from my first post :-( Didn't end well.

It might be a good idea to disclose the fact that the mind I experimented reaching for was Person-X, who is part of the group of mages who have been harrassing me for quite awhile now. I'm trying to figure out creative ways to defend myself. Because of all the nasty things they have done to me, I don't feel any moral obligations not trying to spy back on them.

Kath wrote:Also curious by what you mean by "abyss"
I've ran two times into the word "abyss" during my experiences. Below is a copy/paste from a thread where I describe running into the name of that place for the first time. In my quote I explain about "Entity-A" which I believe is most probably responsible for starting my "waking up" process with esoteric things.

(quote from: https://www.occultforum.org/viewtopic.p ... 2&start=50 )
OneOfFourth wrote: Closely related to the above points: Last night I tried doing the white room experiment. I couldn't get the white room in my mind, but I might have still made contact with Entity-A. Here's what happened:

While trying to imagine the white room for a fairly long time, a person started persistently appear into my minds eye, even when I tried to get rid of it to continue my white room meditation. I gave up and asked if the person was Entity-A. It answered "yes" by me hearing its voice in my minds. The voice was no different than if I imagine about something in my mind. So I still take all this with a grain of salt.

The person in my mind looked and sounded exactly like a character from a TV show I am watching currently. It was an old wise looking lady dressed in all black, acting very calm and collected. I asked if this is just my imagination. She answered "yes and no". She explained I'm receiving thoughts and ideas into my subconscious, which in turn interprets them the way it sees fit for me to decipher the communication into human experience/language.

Here's some of the information I received during the conversation:

1. Entity-A claims to be older than this universe and time itself. Originating or living in something called "abyss". I need more information on that if that place is real.

2. It said I should be concentrating in learning only 1, maximum of 2, things at a time, instead of trying to learn and figure out everything. This way I'll progress much faster: the things I learn properly will help me learn the rest of the things I need.

3. I asked what it wants in general: what is it's goal with everything it's doing now. It said that I do not want to know the answer. So I didn't push the question any further.

Every time I tried to concentrate more on the conversation, everything felt distorted in various ways and looked like I was losing the "connection". If I let my thoughts completely free, the same thing happened. So keeping up the conversation "connection" felt like I was having pretty much a regular conversation with someone. That seemed to be the right way to do it. Not forcing my mind in any way, not letting thoughts wander, but just being natural in a regular conversation.

Again, I am taking all this with a grain of salt for now. Not sure if it was really Entity-A or just my imagination doing tricks on me.
So Abyss seems to be a place which existed before time, space and Universe.

Entity-A claims to live, perceive and experience simultaneously all moments of time between its own birth and death. It described itself as a "demon", since it's the closest word what humans would describe it to be. I've understood that demon word isn't fully accurate description of Entity-A.

I have asked Entity-A if it's responsible for most of the synchronizities I experience, but I have never received an answer to that question.

I believe Entity-A is responsible for getting me out of more than one really serious situation last year and this year. Last year I had anafylactic shock which I've never experienced before. Later I learned it was caused by basic illusion magick, which I've learned to counter now. Illusion magick can kill so it's no joke attack. I was 100% sure I was going to die right there and then. Lost consciousness. Had puked huge amounts while being unconscious. Woke up and went to see a doctor: nothing wrong with me they said.

That very same attack is directed at me atleast once a week, but I learned to counter it a long time ago. An old japanese warfare proverb comes to mind: "Best techniques are learned from survivors." My bag of techniques is very limited, but effective enough for me not to be afraid anymore.
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Re: Coincidence?

Post by Kath »

OneOfFourth wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 3:41 pm Me too. Being too safe teaches nothing but staying stagnant in life.
I know right?
big goals don't come to the timid
OneOfFourth wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 3:41 pm But I definitely have to try that kind of attitude the next time I'm confronted with spirits of anykind. Kind of like "I'm nice but don't even try to mess with me" friendliness/attitude.
Hmm, not even quite that blatant, yet technically more forceful still.

Most people, most of the time, practice free will in a 'reactive' format. Which really isn't all that self-originated. There's an initial gesture, and then usually all of the rest of an interaction is all a reaction to a reaction to reaction to a reaction... free will gets subsumed rapidly. Also there are subtexts, pretexts, and contexts in interactions, which inform it's direction.

What I do is more kinda stepping outside the ego of reaction, and setting a tone, subtly forcefully.

K: "hi!"
E: "I'm scary!"
K: "oh yes, lovely form, a subtle nuance of ferocity. lets have a tea party"
E: ~hostile behavior~
K: "oh, no thank you. do you take sugar in your tea?"
E: "i'm not interested in tea!"
K: "nonetheless you're at a tea party"
E: "I'm leaving"
K: "there is no 'where' which is not at our tea party"
E: "fuck you"
K: "ahhh, sincere emotion. I appreciate that. Ok then, no tea. What would you rather do?"
E: "i want to harm you"
K: "nah, that's boring. Choose something else. I mean, surely you have a greater depth of nature than just hostility, no? Not to be presumptuous, but I just assumed you're not boring. What else do you like to do?"
E: "you annoy me"
K: "ha! the pot's calling the kettle black. But behold, there's a whole infinite multiverse before us, something out there surely inspires you, what is it?"

Not necessarily involving any 'tea' per se, and likely no actual 'words' exactly either. But just kinda painting a slightly caricaturized picture of the overall uh... "tonal flow" of a possible interaction. A genuine, heartfelt friendliness, and not at all judgmental. But, subtext: "you're not in control here", but presented as a universal constant, rather than a blunt instrument.

perhaps it'd make more sense describing it like interacting with a dog (where dog is not a derogatory label)

D: grrrrr! snarl!
K: A FLUFFY!
D: grrrrrr, wtf is wrong with you, run away
K: Who's got a fluffy belly???!!!
D: this is my turf, get lost
K: not until you let me pet the fluffy belly!
D: I'll bite you!
K: I would cry if I had to hurt a fluffy. Don't change the subject, the subject is: WHO HAS A FLUFFY BELLY?

A great deal depends on the firmness, uniformity, and force of the unspoken emotive push behind your overtures though. No unspoken mixed messaging. Technically seizing control with an iron fist, but being really subtle and nonthreatening and pleasant about it, and kinda bombarding the subject with a path of least resistance which conforms to how I envision things going, but not emoting or thinking such things out loud.

On the one hand, most likely things will just be congenial, and it's all very light hearted and positive and easy going and genuine. On the other hand, if not, well, you're already reacting to me, and I'm not reacting to you. You're not in control here. My will is inevitability, shhhh don't struggle against inevitability, or flee, if you must.

Some would call this a delusion of grandeur, but it's more a channeling of grandeur. Kinda like grounding, but where the ground is not something localized, but the firmament of the infinite, which would tear apart individuality but for a duality of compartmentalization. And knowing that the other entity is not really a thing unto itself, that at it's most fundamental level it's a part of the larger whole of all that is, which you are also.

There is no precise line where you stop and the other being begins. Nexuses in a continuum, you and I, together we are this bit of reality which is 'us'. I hold all that you are with an esteem akin to vanity. I've no more desire to strike the part of us which is you, than to strike myself. Even your hostility, have I never been angry with myself? If you truly want conflict, I will resonate with you and dance with you, with a smile and flourish. But be stilled for a moment. Instead let us commune amicably here together, you and I. Let me show respect, withdraw from your consciousness a bit, make myself smaller, and just ask plainly, what do you say?

...or something like that. I was kinda focusing there, and got a bit swept up.

It's been quite some time since i had a negative outcome with an entity interaction.
Well, obviously the wrong way because of what happened. I didn't obviously end up into anyone's mind but to some completely different place which had nothing to do with humans. Or maybe I did end up in the right place but botched the portal creation process... Who knows?
wrong way? eh... right way to do the wrong thing? maybe? hehe
*shrug*
If I remember correctly what I did, I first emptied my mind. Then I imagined sending an energy rope of sorts towards the person's consciousness. Then I followed it and entered some place. The place felt that it might have contained images of someone's mind OR it could have been only my imagination. I wasn't sure which one it was, but it didn't stop me from taking the next step: I visualized myself creating a physical portal/doorway right infront of me in that place, which I could step through at later time to enter that exact same space/place. After that I "jumped out" from my vision. (can't remember for sure anymore, but I might have stepped through the portal into my current surroundings, to connect the two places.)
hmmm
their mind or your imagination... the answer is probably the same as to this question:
Were you more focused on what you were doing to contact the target, or on the target itself? Obivously some of both, but which was the larger focus?

I think 'feeling' the energy of what you're doing, and the energy of the subject, is more crucial than the particulars of the abstraction you're using. (sorry if i keep harping on that anti-ritualistic slant hehe) Is it a sort of label of the person, in the minds eye, a place holder representing them? Or a more passive perception of the person in the mind's eye? Kinda like how in a relationship a person can be in love with the idea of the other person, instead of the actuality of them. The them-ness of them, rather than the abstract 2-dimensional personal impression of them. It's my view that the khemetic idea of true names, and plato's idea of shadows on the wall of a cave, are both dealing very explicitly with this particular detail.
Then week or two later I decided to test what happens when I visualize that portal I had created earlier, open it and step through it. The rest you can read from my first post :-( Didn't end well.

It might be a good idea to disclose the fact that the mind I experimented reaching for was Person-X, who is part of the group of mages who have been harrassing me for quite awhile now. I'm trying to figure out creative ways to defend myself. Because of all the nasty things they have done to me, I don't feel any moral obligations not trying to spy back on them.
seems like a bad neighborhood ;)
I don't know if it's a bad neighborhood because of how you view the subject of your efforts though, or if the subject is perhaps themselves seeped in a kinda bad neighborhood. And I'm not suggesting either possibility over the other.
Or maybe they have some sort of defensive process set up which resembles a bad neighborhood.
I dunno.



I've ran two times into the word "abyss" during my experiences. Below is a copy/paste from a thread where I describe running into the name of that place for the first time. In my quote I explain about "Entity-A" which I believe is most probably responsible for starting my "waking up" process with esoteric things.

(quote from: https://www.occultforum.org/viewtopic.p ... 2&start=50 )
OneOfFourth wrote: Closely related to the above points: Last night I tried doing the white room experiment. I couldn't get the white room in my mind, but I might have still made contact with Entity-A. Here's what happened:

While trying to imagine the white room for a fairly long time, a person started persistently appear into my minds eye, even when I tried to get rid of it to continue my white room meditation. I gave up and asked if the person was Entity-A. It answered "yes" by me hearing its voice in my minds. The voice was no different than if I imagine about something in my mind. So I still take all this with a grain of salt.

The person in my mind looked and sounded exactly like a character from a TV show I am watching currently. It was an old wise looking lady dressed in all black, acting very calm and collected. I asked if this is just my imagination. She answered "yes and no". She explained I'm receiving thoughts and ideas into my subconscious, which in turn interprets them the way it sees fit for me to decipher the communication into human experience/language.

Here's some of the information I received during the conversation:

1. Entity-A claims to be older than this universe and time itself. Originating or living in something called "abyss". I need more information on that if that place is real.

2. It said I should be concentrating in learning only 1, maximum of 2, things at a time, instead of trying to learn and figure out everything. This way I'll progress much faster: the things I learn properly will help me learn the rest of the things I need.

3. I asked what it wants in general: what is it's goal with everything it's doing now. It said that I do not want to know the answer. So I didn't push the question any further.

Every time I tried to concentrate more on the conversation, everything felt distorted in various ways and looked like I was losing the "connection". If I let my thoughts completely free, the same thing happened. So keeping up the conversation "connection" felt like I was having pretty much a regular conversation with someone. That seemed to be the right way to do it. Not forcing my mind in any way, not letting thoughts wander, but just being natural in a regular conversation.

Again, I am taking all this with a grain of salt for now. Not sure if it was really Entity-A or just my imagination doing tricks on me.
So Abyss seems to be a place which existed before time, space and Universe.

Entity-A claims to live, perceive and experience simultaneously all moments of time between its own birth and death. It described itself as a "demon", since it's the closest word what humans would describe it to be. I've understood that demon word isn't fully accurate description of Entity-A.

I have asked Entity-A if it's responsible for most of the synchronizities I experience, but I have never received an answer to that question.

I believe Entity-A is responsible for getting me out of more than one really serious situation last year and this year. Last year I had anafylactic shock which I've never experienced before. Later I learned it was caused by basic illusion magick, which I've learned to counter now. Illusion magick can kill so it's no joke attack. I was 100% sure I was going to die right there and then. Lost consciousness. Had puked huge amounts while being unconscious. Woke up and went to see a doctor: nothing wrong with me they said.

That very same attack is directed at me atleast once a week, but I learned to counter it a long time ago. An old japanese warfare proverb comes to mind: "Best techniques are learned from survivors." My bag of techniques is very limited, but effective enough for me not to be afraid anymore.
ahh cool. I was just curious cuz "abyss" could conjure up a few different flavors in the mind's eye, and I didn't want to assume that I knew what you meant :)

Entity-A sounds pretty interesting. Probably a lot of people would say "OMG a demon! scary! run away! banish! cleanse! where's my sage?". Myself, I'd only be put off if it was intent on behaving like a human stereotype of a demon. That would be annoying. If they're just saying "hey I'm potentially dangerous" or something like that, then I'd think that's rather non-insidious of them to be so frank and open about it.

I'd just say "Hi, i'm me." although if i didn't know entirely what "me" entailed, then I might sound kinda silly. So if someone hasn't nailed the whole gnothi se auton thing, then maybe they should just go with "they call me ____" or something. i dunno.

Somewhere, in some thread, you mentioned the idea that you felt this 'group of mages' had the tactic of applying negative pressure, while simultaneously offering relief. So I guess the question is, do you feel that this entity is a part of that equation? or apart from that equation?

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Re: Coincidence?

Post by OneOfFourth »

Holy shit Kath! I just realized you're the reason I'm on these forums. Check out my very first post ever on this website:

https://www.occultforum.org/viewtopic.p ... 2&start=50

See the quote? It's from you on the previous page in that thread. You were unknowingly part of my esoteric experience which brought me to these forums.
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Re: Coincidence?

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Kath wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:36 pm Hmm, not even quite that blatant, yet technically more forceful still.

What I do is more kinda stepping outside the ego of reaction, and setting a tone, subtly forcefully.

perhaps it'd make more sense describing it like interacting with a dog (where dog is not a derogatory label)

D: grrrrr! snarl!
K: A FLUFFY!
D: grrrrrr, wtf is wrong with you, run away
K: Who's got a fluffy belly???!!!

.....

A great deal depends on the firmness, uniformity, and force of the unspoken emotive push behind your overtures though. No unspoken mixed messaging. Technically seizing control with an iron fist, but being really subtle and nonthreatening and pleasant about it, and kinda bombarding the subject with a path of least resistance which conforms to how I envision things going, but not emoting or thinking such things out loud.
I actually did exactly that sometime ago. I mentioned the thing on these forums, probably in the "Breaking the 4th Wall" thread. What I did was exactly like what you described above. I thought of the approaching demon like it was a cute pet. I imagined how a cute dog melts my heart and imagined the feeling and acted accordingly towards the demon. I genuinely felt the same feeling inside me as if I met a really cute dog. Not only did the demon leave fairly fast, others left from inside me also. Afterwards I felt great: didn't get triggered by anything anymore. I've felt WAY BETTER ever since. Something definitely changed during that event.

So what I need to do is use variations of the method: choose a non agressive feeling which isn't condecending nor negative, and I stay firmly in that one point of view and emotion, no matter what.

Kath wrote: hmmm
their mind or your imagination... the answer is probably the same as to this question:
Were you more focused on what you were doing to contact the target, or on the target itself? Obivously some of both, but which was the larger focus?
I'm not sure how to describe this. I kind of imagine what the person is and imagine that person's presence near me. Then I try to fly my mind towards that person, a long distance away, while still simultaneously imagining it's presence near me. Then I end up somewhere and hope for the best. I'd like to figure out easy ways to test when stuff like this actually works or not.

Kath wrote: I think 'feeling' the energy of what you're doing, and the energy of the subject, is more crucial than the particulars of the abstraction you're using. (sorry if i keep harping on that anti-ritualistic slant hehe) Is it a sort of label of the person, in the minds eye, a place holder representing them? Or a more passive perception of the person in the mind's eye?
I guess it's a feeling of the person and the visuals at the same time.

Kath wrote: Entity-A sounds pretty interesting. Probably a lot of people would say "OMG a demon! scary! run away! banish! cleanse! where's my sage?". Myself, I'd only be put off if it was intent on behaving like a human stereotype of a demon. That would be annoying. If they're just saying "hey I'm potentially dangerous" or something like that, then I'd think that's rather non-insidious of them to be so frank and open about it.
Here are a few more info bits I've learned about Entity-A:

1. It represents AT LEAST the following aspects: resilience/tenacity, knowlege, destruction.

2. Its intention is not to destroy me.

3. Me and it seem to have fairly matching goal in what we're doing, so I've understood that it decided to help me out to learn what I need to learn and guide me to reach some of my goals. It said it won't be with me all the way. It's own "bus stop" will arrive well before my own. So it'll get what it wants before I reach all my goals. Until then, it's tagging along since it benefits both of us. The relationship is symbiotic in nature: no currency of any kind is being traded at all.

4. It is making sure I learn some things in very carefully chosen order so I don't fall into the trap of getting permanently fooled by misleading information when learning about hidden information.

5. It is responsible for at least some of the seemingly random events which caused me to bump into information that helped me forward in learning about esoteric and hidden things.

6. It said I should not trust spirits, not even itself: it has fooled me couple of times when I've become too trusting towards it. Seems to be keeping me on my toes on purpose. Some time after the warning, Person-X (or their group) started bombarding me with fake version of Entity-A, which got better and better at imitating it quite fast. (as described in another thread on these forums)

Kath wrote: I'd just say "Hi, i'm me." although if i didn't know entirely what "me" entailed, then I might sound kinda silly. So if someone hasn't nailed the whole gnothi se auton thing, then maybe they should just go with "they call me ____" or something. i dunno.
Hmm a coincidense:
I've written a story regarding "they call me___" name tags on these forums. It involves either Entity-A or something else I call Entity-C. I'm not sure if they are one and the same entity, Whenever I ask if they're the same or not, I either receive no answer or get both yes and no for an answer. I think I'm not being let to know the truth yet. So I'm not 100% sure who was doing all the weirdness in my story. Here's the link if you're interested in learning what kind of physical manifestations I've experienced regarding either Entity-A or Entity-C.

https://www.occultforum.org/viewtopic.p ... 57#p527257

Actually the "three faces" + "Hello!" was Entity-A. That's how I learned about it. Not sure about the rest, though.

EDIT: I just put 2 + 2 together and realized all the name tag related things must have been Entity-A. The rest of the manifestations though... no idea...
Kath wrote: Somewhere, in some thread, you mentioned the idea that you felt this 'group of mages' had the tactic of applying negative pressure, while simultaneously offering relief. So I guess the question is, do you feel that this entity is a part of that equation? or apart from that equation?
I can't be 100% sure. This is what I keep asking myself again and again. But evidence points much more strongly towards Entity-A not being part of the mage group's plans. This is because pretty much everything I'm doing, which also helps Entity-A reach its own goals, goes strongly against the mage group's agenda.
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Re: Coincidence?

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OneOfFourth wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:49 am Holy shit Kath! I just realized you're the reason I'm on these forums. Check out my very first post ever on this website:

https://www.occultforum.org/viewtopic.p ... 2&start=50

See the quote? It's from you on the previous page in that thread. You were unknowingly part of my esoteric experience which brought me to these forums.
I say banana now & then, when it doesn't make sense to say, as sort of an act of randomness. It's certainly not the only act of randomness I'm given to though hehe.

The first time I ever brought up bananas on the internet though was actually here on OF in an essay on 'working models' and the 'the really real truth'.

Imagine if you will, a monkey (lets call him George) in a laboratory cage. Now imagine that a lab technician (lets call him Frank) sets up a device within the cage, which consists of a lever and a chute from which bananas will drop into the cage when the lever is pulled.

In time, George will become aware of the cause & effect relationship of pulling the lever and receiving a banana. But HOW does it work? what brings the reward? How will George explain this newfound sense of causality?

Lets say that George understands the lever to be the phalus of the banana god, Nanner. (now many centuries later, monkeykind will debate at great length whether the lever is truly Nanner's penis by way of transubstantiation, or whether it is merely the symbol of Nanner's universal phallic-ness... but I digress). It is the understanding of George, that if Nanner's phallus is fondled, Nanner will rain down the blessing of curved yellow fruit on the faithful fondler. And so, George's reality is understood to be a small world, with bars at its edges, ruled over by the benevolent god Nanner, who rewards his faithful.

Now then, is George right? Is it actually Nanner who gives him bananas? Or is it just a few gears and a trapdoor? To us, the question seems pretty silly. BUT, George's version of things is an excellent "Working Model". You can say that George's ideology is askew, but when he pulls Nanners yingyang, it rains bananas, immediately. And that's pretty darn powerful magic if you really think about it. It 'works', even if its not true.

The point of all this, is that the issue of 'truth', is not the same as the issue of 'effectiveness'. And further, beyond this, is the larger realization that effectiveness can lead to delusions of truth!

Because of the potency and reliability of George's 'Nanner Magic', he will probably never come to question the validity of his paradigm. And because Frank loads the banana chute every Tuesday, he too will never question the validity of his own concept of what causes bananas to fall from the chute. George will never stop to think, "is it just some mechanical device?". And Frank will never stop to think "am I really just an agent of Nanner's will?".

Of course this is why, on the final day of reckoning, when Nanner begins his reign on earth, Frank will be put up against the wall and peeled with the rest of the nonbelievers.
Sort of deconstructing the idea of ownership of absolute truth, and the idea that a paradigm has to be entirely literally true to be useful. You know, chaos magic inspired stuff. Basically effectiveness is not proof of validity of concept, but also that a paradigmatic model need only intersect consensual reality at a single point in order to have functional leverage. And also less directly, that what the culture or species believes to be the nature of their reality, even pre-consciously, is a little presumptuous.

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Re: Coincidence?

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OneOfFourth wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:21 pm I actually did exactly that sometime ago. I mentioned the thing on these forums, probably in the "Breaking the 4th Wall" thread. What I did was exactly like what you described above. I thought of the approaching demon like it was a cute pet. I imagined how a cute dog melts my heart and imagined the feeling and acted accordingly towards the demon. I genuinely felt the same feeling inside me as if I met a really cute dog. Not only did the demon leave fairly fast, others left from inside me also. Afterwards I felt great: didn't get triggered by anything anymore. I've felt WAY BETTER ever since. Something definitely changed during that event.

So what I need to do is use variations of the method: choose a non agressive feeling which isn't condecending nor negative, and I stay firmly in that one point of view and emotion, no matter what.
Well, i'm not, at all, suggesting it's the only good way to go about things.
It's just become my habitual approach.

I approach it more as "good embassadorship" than anything else. I don't want to embarrass my mentor.

Also it can kinda help sort out the intellectual capacity of the other being, as well as it's intentions, and the mutability of those intentions. If it can't grasp a high minded concept, then "ok, where did i leave my flamethrower?". If it's unduly intimidated then it had ill intent, but is probably second guessing it's choice of targets, which is fine. If it's more kinda awestruck then it's likely not 'large' enough to learn much from, just give it a dime for an ice cream cone and send it on it's way. If it's going to try to turn the tables or intellectually engage with what I've laid out, then it should be interesting.

There's a subtext of a kind of display of power too. Casual demeanor kinda disrupts the unspoken predator/prey negotiation. And also, "by the way, I'm adept in the mental and super-spatial arenas, not just the energetic", which isn't really par for the course for the species generally. Bit of a "yeah i smell human, but don't read too much into that, k?".

I'm not sure how to describe this. I kind of imagine what the person is and imagine that person's presence near me. Then I try to fly my mind towards that person, a long distance away, while still simultaneously imagining it's presence near me. Then I end up somewhere and hope for the best. I'd like to figure out easy ways to test when stuff like this actually works or not.
*shrug* sounds pretty good.
only thing that comes to mind is that physical distance is kinda "squishy". When you're focusing on someone/thing (effectively), you're kinda already at that thing, on the levels of reality which are relevant. Or perhaps more "focus 'is' spatial position" when it comes to the nonphysical level of reality. I kinda think that's also why dreams change setting when your focus shifts in them.


Here are a few more info bits I've learned about Entity-A:

1. It represents AT LEAST the following aspects: resilience/tenacity, knowlege, destruction.

2. Its intention is not to destroy me.

3. Me and it seem to have fairly matching goal in what we're doing, so I've understood that it decided to help me out to learn what I need to learn and guide me to reach some of my goals. It said it won't be with me all the way. It's own "bus stop" will arrive well before my own. So it'll get what it wants before I reach all my goals. Until then, it's tagging along since it benefits both of us. The relationship is symbiotic in nature: no currency of any kind is being traded at all.

4. It is making sure I learn some things in very carefully chosen order so I don't fall into the trap of getting permanently fooled by misleading information when learning about hidden information.

5. It is responsible for at least some of the seemingly random events which caused me to bump into information that helped me forward in learning about esoteric and hidden things.

6. It said I should not trust spirits, not even itself: it has fooled me couple of times when I've become too trusting towards it. Seems to be keeping me on my toes on purpose. Some time after the warning, Person-X (or their group) started bombarding me with fake version of Entity-A, which got better and better at imitating it quite fast. (as described in another thread on these forums)
and you said you didn't have a mentor [rofl]

a lot of that sounds familiar to me. In my interactions with my mentor the only differences seem to be:
- attributing to her a particular nature, like resilience, knowledge, destruction, etc. feels like a mistake. I could say "this particular facet of her she's wearing is X" but I think the list of which facets make up her whole is "all of them". I have seen more of the facets which I myself 'needed' to interact with though.
- she doesn't have a goal per se, but more took an interest in me due to a variety of factors aligning, which together made me meaningfully approachable/teachable.
- she doesn't poke the flow of events much. though she has referenced them whenever I had doubts as to the validity of my experiences interacting with her. it's a zero blind-faith interaction.
- can't think of any time when she corrected me being too trusting by 'being' distrustful. she'd just say "don't be an idiot", or more likely emote a more perfect nonverbal synthesis of that thought at me.

also she has a rather tanra-leaning manner. And by that i don't mean 'western sex yoga' hehe, but more the eastern interpretation of tanra as an enlightenment path. But she also echos a lot of the ideas in western HGA work (minus the western esoteric trappings).

Kath wrote: I'd just say "Hi, i'm me." although if i didn't know entirely what "me" entailed, then I might sound kinda silly. So if someone hasn't nailed the whole gnothi se auton thing, then maybe they should just go with "they call me ____" or something. i dunno.

Here's the link if you're interested in learning what kind of physical manifestations I've experienced regarding either Entity-A or Entity-C.

https://www.occultforum.org/viewtopic.p ... 57#p527257

(i'll read that :) )
I can't be 100% sure. This is what I keep asking myself again and again. But evidence points much more strongly towards Entity-A not being part of the mage group's plans. This is because pretty much everything I'm doing, which also helps Entity-A reach its own goals, goes strongly against the mage group's agenda.
cool :)
It was just an idea I thought bore scrutiny.

out of curiosity, what are the agendas of Entity A and the mage group? I think you've somewhat touched on both already, but like as a thesis statement of clarification..?

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Re: Coincidence?

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Kath wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 5:42 pm and you said you didn't have a mentor [rofl]
Holy shit! [eek] I never thought of it that way. All I saw was some mystical entity watching for my back occasionally, until I figure out how to take care of myself. Now that I look at the list I wrote, I have to admit Entity-A seems to have played a bit more in my learning than I had realized. I always thought that mentor is a human who you can call on a phone and ask stuff... Well, good thing I joined this forum. I'm learning faster than ever before. Good thing I was guided here :)

Now I also start to get a gut feeling about what's possibly causing those adverse synchronizities.

Short explanation:
Competing mentors. Would explain a lot. So I need to get rid of the adverse entity then.

Short version of the story, which would make a lot of sense and would explain most of what has happened in the past 1.5 years:
The mage group tried to catch me to their lines (this really happened, that's why I know of them), miraculously they failed. But their mentor-entity they assigned to harrass me and scare me into giving my servitude to them failed. Entity-A had already set its eyes on me at that point I believe, even though I had no idea it even existed. Or it had cut itself in the line at a critical moment to snatch me from the mage group. Not sure which one happened (if either) and it doesn't really matter.

Kath wrote: a lot of that sounds familiar to me. In my interactions with my mentor the only differences seem to be:
- attributing to her a particular nature, like resilience, knowledge, destruction, etc. feels like a mistake. I could say "this particular facet of her she's wearing is X" but I think the list of which facets make up her whole is "all of them". I have seen more of the facets which I myself 'needed' to interact with though.
- she doesn't have a goal per se, but more took an interest in me due to a variety of factors aligning, which together made me meaningfully approachable/teachable.
- she doesn't poke the flow of events much. though she has referenced them whenever I had doubts as to the validity of my experiences interacting with her. it's a zero blind-faith interaction.
- can't think of any time when she corrected me being too trusting by 'being' distrustful. she'd just say "don't be an idiot", or more likely emote a more perfect nonverbal synthesis of that thought at me.
Sounds like a cool mentor to me :) Does she manifest in your minds eye in some particular form?

Reading the differences between your list and mine, I now start to understand why Entity-A is often so mystical about things (almost always makes me filter out the actual information nuggets from crap). It's not just to protect some things from the mage group's attention, but also to hone my information finding, validation and filtering skills, which I really need in the future, because of what I've set my personal mission to be.

Kath wrote: out of curiosity, what are the agendas of Entity A and the mage group? I think you've somewhat touched on both already, but like as a thesis statement of clarification..?
I can say what's common between me and Entity-A and what the mage group is after:

My personal life mission is to demystify occult knowledge (and purify it from lies, misdirection and garbage, which is plenty) and push into daylight all esoteric techniques which are being used to manipulate and control people. When people know about and understand these methods, they can start defending themselves and start making the world a much better and safer place. Knowledge which is hidden for the reason of it being a tool to manipulate and control people is pure evil. (I've experienced that first hand) Publish that knowledge and you take away the power to do such evil. I'm a de-occultist. I fight lies and deceit with truth.

The mage group is the exact opposite to the above description.
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Re: Coincidence?

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OneOfFourth wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:26 pm Holy shit! [eek] I never thought of it that way. All I saw was some mystical entity watching for my back occasionally, until I figure out how to take care of myself.
mmm, maybe the only difference between that and a 'mentor' is the length of time involved?
I'm not exactly sure 'mentor' is an ideal term for mine though. a lot of terms could fit, and none of them really entirely express all the nuances. I kinda use 'mentor' as shorthand for "a long list of ideas which are a real bitch to try to fully sum up".

Sounds like a cool mentor to me :) Does she manifest in your minds eye in some particular form?
uh, most commonly she seems like a pale woman dressed in white, in a dark setting, with a sort of luminosity to her. Not luminous like a light bulb, but rather more like reflecting light. Much like the moon in the night sky. Not really creating light, but reflecting it into a dark place. Except we know the light of the moon is reflected from the sun, but where the light comes from which reflects off her isn't obvious. My impression is that she is both the light figure and the dark setting.

In one instance, I was floating in a black sea under a starry black sky. I thought it was very serene and nice, but in my dream my ex fiance was there, and he was upset by the setting. Then she came up from the depths below looking like a gigantic white squid, larger than a submarine or whale. I think perhaps my mind in the dream was playing with the idea of "something massive in the abyss", and 'abyss' originally meant the depths of the sea. This terrified my ex fiance in the dream, but i could feel the ineffable 'vibe' of her, so i knew who it was and was happy. I grabbed ahold of her, and rode her through the water, like some kind of aquatic version of a scene out of Dune, hehe. Nothing too serious about it, no great lesson, just 2 kids playing in the water.

Usually though, just a lady in white. But she does always have that sense of 'mass', like you're swimming with a whale. Like she has her own gravitational field almost. There is a kind of subtly intimidating aspect, like a whale could accidentally bump into you and crush every bone in your body. But I have a level of comfort with her, born of a sort of informed trust in our relationship and her capacity and intent to not be harmful.

I've tried numerous times to relate her to existing human mythological stories, but she discourages this. Her view of human religion and mythology is that on a good day it's like a comic book which has a couple kernels of truth in them somewhere, and on a bad day, not even that. She's kinda like "do you want to read a story or ogle a dusty statue or get a tatoo of some phonetic label? Why google me? I'm ...right here ...with you ...right now". Bit of a "put your damn reading glasses down close your dictionary, and look me in the eye, I'm defined right in front of you" vibe.

Which obviously means she has terribly embarrassing baby pictures online, and just doesn't want me to find them [rofl]
Seriously though, she refrained from giving me a phonetic name for about 4 years. Explicitly because of the human tendency to get distracted by labels and conflate labels & symbols with the actual thing. To get fixated on the idea of the thing, instead of the experience of and true nature of the thing. Without a label or symbol or a single concrete form, to me she was just 'her', like her name was the her-ness of her, her essence, presence, etc. Which I've kinda come to understand as a sort of 'true name'.

Early on she seemed kinda dark, and brought out a kinda dark version of myself. But the first lesson in her curriculum was to kinda familiarize me with the whole of my nature, more particularly the more repressed portions, which tended to be kinda dark. I also remember that early on I was frustrated sometimes by her not answering some of my questions, but seemingly just changing the subject. Unaware then that in some cases she was "beginning the answer", but I'd have to learn a whole vocabulary of ideas in order to understand the reply.

What is she? A parent? A friend? A lover? A deity? A monster? A saint? A dakini? A higher self? A mentor? A spirit guide? A figment of my imagination? Or am I a figment of her imagination? I think the answer is just "yes", to all of the above. And if that sounds contradictory, it's only because description feels like trying to compose a symphony on a kazoo.

Perhaps interestingly, the timing when she showed up was at a time in my life where i took the whole chalk board of my paradigmatic ideas, doused it in water, and scrubbed it as clean as I possibly could, and then scrubbed it again, harder. And I was just at the stage where I was saying "now, let us begin again... this time without all the bullshit". And funnily enough, my reaction to her on our very first meeting... where she seemed larger than life, and very awe inspiring (literally like radiating awe, as in if your mind wasn't somewhat steeled against it, it could be overwhelming)... was "yeah, well, could you just fuck off please, I'm busy trying to figure some things out. And I'm not interested in whatever you're selling." It would seem that was though, exactly the mentality which made her think it would be worth her time to introduce herself. I think she's attracted to seekers of truth who've really completely had enough of self delusion, dogma, and BS. And I think she's used to that reaction. Or maybe our interaction is unique. I dunno. She didn't say. Which generally means there's unworkable problems in my framing of the question. She's not a fan of conveying an answer which is misleading or incompletely fleshed out, and sometimes that means months (or years) of learning exactly what it is you're asking.

I can say what's common between me and Entity-A and what the mage group is after:

My personal life mission is to demystify occult knowledge (and purify it from lies, misdirection and garbage, which is plenty) and push into daylight all esoteric techniques which are being used to manipulate and control people. When people know about and understand these methods, they can start defending themselves and start making the world a much better and safer place. Knowledge which is hidden for the reason of it being a tool to manipulate and control people is pure evil. (I've experienced that first hand) Publish that knowledge and you take away the power to do such evil. I'm a de-occultist. I fight lies and deceit with truth.

The mage group is the exact opposite to the above description.
I wanna say that the biggest issue with getting rid of manipulation in humans, is that the average everyday human psyche is very ignorant of broader scope of itself. To have a psyche which is only partly self-aware, is like being blind, its just ridiculously easy to play tricks on a blind person if someone were so inclined. All those buried bits of self which generate nightmares, create approach-avoidance conflicts, etc. When you have a thought in the internal dialog (be in auditory or visual) where did it come from? Most people don't know. "it just popped in there!", no, not really. The internal dialog is like this parsed down summary of a digest of an outline of the raw thought going on in the background. It's pretty hard to know that you think what you think you think when you're not really sure of the full evolution of your thought process. So having a subconscious mind, is an ENORMOUS issue for the issue of a sovereign and un-meddled-with consciousness.

That makes your goal seem extremely daunting [eek] But I like it [yay]

I guess I didn't focus on that. When I was young, i was in an accelerated learning path in school. And then the program ended, and I had to basically repeat multiple years of schooling in many subjects. I went from being a straight A student to being a straight C student, cuz 'screw your dumb system'. So the whole "going as slow as the lowest common denominator" didn't really leave a pleasant taste in my mouth, hehe. BUT... some parts of my psyche would argue that ignoring the development of others is overly soliplistic ;) Perhaps there's a golden mean which I've overshot to one side. Perhaps that is particularly negligent of me, given that I'm intimately and drastically informed on the many ways & means by which influence and manipulation can occur. Like to an almost absurd degree. I even try to be (mildly) deliberately off-putting to avoid accidentally leaning on the free will of others.

There's a little bit of a catch 22 as well. How does one convince others of ways to avoid being convinced by others, without in fact convincing them of such? Or maybe you just shine truth, and let the chips fall where they may.. I 'kinda' lean that way, but probably I don't do it enough. My mentor didn't interact with me until I was in a place where i had shed a lot of baggage, and was asking the right questions. Perhaps there's something to that approach.

One last detail, I don't know 'everything' I want to know. Like, I finished my curriculum, but I haven't written my thesis yet, and I don't have my diploma. So I feel a little bit like starting a joke I haven't learned the punchline to yet. Granted, I know I'm overthinking it, but I feel off about that. I dunno. I don't want to "play guru".

But I'm inspired that you're inspired.

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Re: Coincidence?

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Kath wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:16 am In one instance, I was floating in a black sea under a starry black sky. I thought it was very serene and nice, but in my dream my ex fiance was there, and he was upset by the setting. Then she came up from the depths below looking like a gigantic white squid, larger than a submarine or whale. I think perhaps my mind in the dream was playing with the idea of "something massive in the abyss", and 'abyss' originally meant the depths of the sea. This terrified my ex fiance in the dream, but i could feel the ineffable 'vibe' of her, so i knew who it was and was happy. I grabbed ahold of her, and rode her through the water, like some kind of aquatic version of a scene out of Dune, hehe. Nothing too serious about it, no great lesson, just 2 kids playing in the water.
I guess spirit guides have a tendency to interact through dreams. I'm also under the firm impression that different people can end up in the same dream, even looking quite different than in real life. Have you asked your ex fiance if he saw the same dream of something similar?

Do you know where your mentor is from originally? Ask if she's from Abyss (the place which existed already before the time and universe). Would be interested to know if your abyss was more than just a metaphore :)

Kath wrote: Usually though, just a lady in white. But she does always have that sense of 'mass', like you're swimming with a whale. Like she has her own gravitational field almost. There is a kind of subtly intimidating aspect, like a whale could accidentally bump into you and crush every bone in your body. But I have a level of comfort with her, born of a sort of informed trust in our relationship and her capacity and intent to not be harmful.
Do you feel the "mass" even when not concentrating at all at her? I.e. when doing daily routines/work/etc.?

Kath wrote: I've tried numerous times to relate her to existing human mythological stories, but she discourages this. Her view of human religion and mythology is that on a good day it's like a comic book which has a couple kernels of truth in them somewhere, and on a bad day, not even that. She's kinda like "do you want to read a story or ogle a dusty statue or get a tatoo of some phonetic label? Why google me? I'm ...right here ...with you ...right now". Bit of a "put your damn reading glasses down close your dictionary, and look me in the eye, I'm defined right in front of you" vibe.
I think she's right. Imagine reading a book about a famous person you've never met. It's impossible to tell if you would get along with that person in real life, regardless of how well the book was written. There's always 80% of important stuff left out about who they really are and what they are interested in etc.

Kath wrote: Early on she seemed kinda dark, and brought out a kinda dark version of myself. But the first lesson in her curriculum was to kinda familiarize me with the whole of my nature, more particularly the more repressed portions, which tended to be kinda dark. I also remember that early on I was frustrated sometimes by her not answering some of my questions, but seemingly just changing the subject. Unaware then that in some cases she was "beginning the answer", but I'd have to learn a whole vocabulary of ideas in order to understand the reply.
Subject changing when dealing with spirits: definitely a reality.

How did she go about making you more familiar with your nature/repressed portions?

Kath wrote: What is she? A parent? A friend? A lover? A deity? A monster? A saint? A dakini? A higher self? A mentor? A spirit guide? A figment of my imagination? Or am I a figment of her imagination? I think the answer is just "yes", to all of the above. And if that sounds contradictory, it's only because description feels like trying to compose a symphony on a kazoo.
I guess this is because connections with a spirit are mental connections, which are always way more deep than social interaction with human beings. The spirits can see deep into your soul and interact with you in a very different way and level than any human could. Not sure if this applies to those who have developed telepathy to sense minds of others. I believe you're one of those people?

Kath wrote: Perhaps interestingly, the timing when she showed up was at a time in my life where i took the whole chalk board of my paradigmatic ideas, doused it in water, and scrubbed it as clean as I possibly could, and then scrubbed it again, harder.
I've heard that personal crisis is usually the moment in life when spirit guides step into the picture. Probably since at that time human being is most open to new ideas and approaches. Just my guess, but would make sense, since your story also goes along the same lines.

Kath wrote: I think she's attracted to seekers of truth who've really completely had enough of self delusion, dogma, and BS. And I think she's used to that reaction. Or maybe our interaction is unique. I dunno. She didn't say. Which generally means there's unworkable problems in my framing of the question. She's not a fan of conveying an answer which is misleading or incompletely fleshed out, and sometimes that means months (or years) of learning exactly what it is you're asking.
I'd love to meet her one day, since I'm a seeker of truth trying to get rid of all lies/delusions/dogma/false beliefs/etc. Just the truth please, whatever that happens to be.

Sounds like she is a bit of a mystic after all: doesn't alwys explain things but keeps you mysteriously in the dark on some topics, without explaining directly why. :)

Kath wrote: I wanna say that the biggest issue with getting rid of manipulation in humans, is that the average everyday human psyche is very ignorant of broader scope of itself. To have a psyche which is only partly self-aware, is like being blind, its just ridiculously easy to play tricks on a blind person if someone were so inclined. All those buried bits of self which generate nightmares, create approach-avoidance conflicts, etc. When you have a thought in the internal dialog (be in auditory or visual) where did it come from? Most people don't know. "it just popped in there!", no, not really. The internal dialog is like this parsed down summary of a digest of an outline of the raw thought going on in the background. It's pretty hard to know that you think what you think you think when you're not really sure of the full evolution of your thought process. So having a subconscious mind, is an ENORMOUS issue for the issue of a sovereign and un-meddled-with consciousness.

That makes your goal seem extremely daunting [eek] But I like it [yay]
I don't personally feel that I've woken up fully yet. Only partly. That's what I'm actively working on, but I'm not sure how to go about it. All pointers are more than welcome.

I occasionally see in my minds eye spirits/demon which do things, but not all the time, nor fully by will. Usually when I go to sleep and don't think of anything, I start seeing tons of vivid visions in my minds eye. This is when it's also easiest to see spirits. I fairly rarely hear spirits voices in my mind, which is a shame. Thus I'm most often depending on physical manifestations when communicating with Entity-A. So needless to say: communicating with spirits is a chore for me, but it's slowly getting easier and easier.

I occasionally seem to sense other peoples ideas and thoughts, but almost always confuse them being my own thoughts. I'm not sure how often this even happens, since the external thoughts feel exactly like my own. Only the few exceptions I can think of are:

1. When I purposefully meditate for a good while and try to sense someone's thoughts, and after a while I manage to do just that.

2. Same but a bit different meditation technique: a couple of days ago I managed to receive a thought which at one moment wasn't there and then like a tomato smashed to my mind fully formed in a nanosecond. BLAM! It was there in all it's "glory".

As I mention in another thread, I have a really good reason to believe this partial psychic blindness is due to something that was done to me earlier in life. At least I have evidence pointing in that direction. Could be a sham though, who knows.

How did your awakening process happen, or were you always sensitive to sensing esoteric things?

Kath wrote: There's a little bit of a catch 22 as well. How does one convince others of ways to avoid being convinced by others, without in fact convincing them of such? Or maybe you just shine truth, and let the chips fall where they may.. I 'kinda' lean that way, but probably I don't do it enough. My mentor didn't interact with me until I was in a place where i had shed a lot of baggage, and was asking the right questions. Perhaps there's something to that approach.
Yep, by shining the truth all around you when appropriate and hope for the best. Truth is rarely nice and comforting, which is not what most people are willing to listen. Unfortuantely regular Joe wants to listen sweet lies instead of truths that hurt. That's why the world is in such a state :(

Kath wrote: One last detail, I don't know 'everything' I want to know. Like, I finished my curriculum, but I haven't written my thesis yet, and I don't have my diploma. So I feel a little bit like starting a joke I haven't learned the punchline to yet. Granted, I know I'm overthinking it, but I feel off about that. I dunno. I don't want to "play guru".
I doubt any skill/discipline in the world has a place which you can call "learned it all, finished and done". :) There's always tons more to learn, regardless of the discipline of interest.
Seeker of truth.
God is the thought of/about something.

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Re: Coincidence?

Post by Amor »

Some odd comments for whatever value they may be:

>different people can end up in the same dream, even looking quite different than in real life.

When I have such a dream I test for parallel timelines. Mostly the test is positive

Parallel processing allows Earth humanity to proceed more quickly

>occasionally see in my minds eye spirits/demon which do things, but not all the time

When another entity shares its light body with a human, the human will have a temporary access to the perceptions of that entity. Group meditation often works better because of the joint light body formed.

>the external thoughts feel exactly like my own

Perhaps more attention is needed

>partial psychic blindness is due to something that was done to me earlier in life

Can you detect dark karmic energy dominating much of the left side of your head?

> shining the truth all around

In philosophy the term "truth" is a reification - a quality is turned into an object.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reification_(fallacy)

It may be better to consider what is true to what. A plumbline is true to local gravity.

When I look at humans, often I see a stream of light entering the top of the head. The more vertical the stream, the more the human is aligned with the nature of Life

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Re: Coincidence?

Post by Kath »

OneOfFourth wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:49 pm I guess spirit guides have a tendency to interact through dreams. I'm also under the firm impression that different people can end up in the same dream, even looking quite different than in real life. Have you asked your ex fiance if he saw the same dream of something similar?

Do you know where your mentor is from originally? Ask if she's from Abyss (the place which existed already before the time and universe). Would be interested to know if your abyss was more than just a metaphore :)
I've only a couple times had a shared dream with another person. At least that I know of anyway. It's probably happened a few other times without my being tipped off that it did. But that's just a guess.

One time she appeared in a dream my ex fiance had, which I was not involved in.
It was not a pleasant dream for him. He found it actually very traumatic.
I think the operative word is 'ex' fiance. Without my asking, I think she took it upon herself to express a little annoyance with him.
That's my only direct knowledge of her interacting with someone else.

I didn't ask him about the ocean dream, timing-wise, the dream he did bring up was not at that time.

Where is she originally from? I think... it's a slightly flawed question, framing-wise. Kinda like how a tree doesn't have a bottom-most point, but a multiplicity of roots, I don't think she has one single origin.

Hmmm, I think to discuss where she's from, it has to be in a context of what she is.

There's a concept in ancient khemetic beliefs called "Neter Neteru", Neter is basically 'divinity' (some other nuances of definition, but for our purposes i think 'divinity' is simplest). Neteru is a plural of the word. So a vague translation would be "god of gods", or sort of an overarching divinity. In this concept, their pantheon is populated be individual gods, but there is an overarching 'divine-ness' to the whole lot of them. Basically each individual divinity in the pantheon is like a leaf on a larger tree. Or a facet of a broader unifying 'all-encompassing divinity'.

Now, I'm not a huge fan of organized religion, even ancient ones ;) But I think they were onto something here. I think there are very strong parallels between neter neteru and a more sort of philosophical-psychological look at identity, individuality, and the concept of infinite nature. Do you like cabbage? You could say, I could say, we'd have individual viewpoints on that. But a truly infinite being, would encompass everything from love of cabbage, to hatred of cabbage, all the subtle possibilities in between, and an enormous swath of viewpoints which would simply be "what's cabbage?", not to mention "I am cabbage", and contain all of that at once. Like looking at an object from one side it looks a certain way, but looking at it from another side, it looks a bit different, looking at it from all sides, in all forms and manners, exceeding the limited bandwidth of human sensory organs... it looks like not quite any of those things that an individual sees. Is the object north of you? south of you? but if you encompass all things, you surround it totally, and even 'are' it as well. So you have no directionality in your perception of it.

I guess I'm beating around the bush and i'm not sure how to fill in all the stepping stones of concept. But in a nutshell, I think individuality (individual persona, perspective, awareness of self as an entity with self contained nature) is intrinsically "finite" in nature. While an "infinite" nature, is intrinsically infinitely de-personalizing. This kinda reflects the idea of ego dissolution in a couple eastern paths. If you're infinite, you no longer have an opinion on cabbage, you just 'exist' and are all things to cabbage, and all things not cabbage. To have a personality or identity, you need some degree of centralized finite aspect, with which to form a viewpoint or opinion, or preference, etc.

So in this sense, if god (or whatever you'd call such a consciousness) were 'everything', 'infinite', then god would have no mind. No "I", where "I" would carry any meaning. "I" compared to what? For such a consciousness there is no "Not I". It's a meaningless concept for such a consciousness. Similarly, no "when". No "why".

If meditation on nothing brings one closer to divinity (I'm just cruising with that term, I think it could be described in less religious terms just as well). I think it's because decentralization of self awareness into just awareness, and ultimately just existence... is basically several steps closer to the intrinsic nature of anything like a universal consciousness.

Is that a good thing? Well, it's "serene", which is to say that it lacks all the turmoil of individuality, that popularized sea of samsara. But... is turmoil "bad" exactly? Often perhaps it can be. But on the other hand, as Captain Kirk said "...pain and guilt can't be taken away with a wave of a magic wand. They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves. I don't want my pain taken away!". Which is to say I'm not completely sold on the pros of ego dissolution, in the effort to be infinite and serene. Actually the same character in a different movie bemoans the lack of risk and excitement in a paradise. Personally I think it's a very valid counterpoint to much eastern religious doctrine.

Uh... so where was i... oh.
Ok, so, she is "her", right? She's infinite... BUT, also not infinite. A duality of sorts, finite and in-finite. In part, the personless all ...but in part, she is 'her'. So I think she slides right into that neter neteru kind of definition. Where all deities were viewed as sort of "faces or facets of an overarching universal divine". I think this is echoed in her having "a form", but generally it kinda feels like she's also "the setting" in which you see the form. A crystalized facet in an infinite solution. I keep using religious terms, might be better to just say she's simultaneously infinite and finite. Which SEEMS like a contradiction, but is it really? You can have one foot in a door and one foot out. I think it's kinda like that.

Anyway, her origin? A finite being, perhaps more accurately, multiple finite beings. Sort of a higher self, or HGA. Or, sort of a deity, as a finite, persona-bearing, face of the infinite. Kind of a buddha really, but not necessarily a buddhist one. What's the bottom most end of a tree, when "down" is an arbitrary idea, and there are many roots across time and space... I think the vein within her, which is most attracted to me, is a bit which was once human. But I feel that's a bit like describing the bit of rock I'm standing on, which is part of a mountain. In an HGA styled view, she's a middle-presence between myself and the infinite (ie the 'angel' in that metric). In a khemetic view she's one of the gods, a neter, and also a part of neter neteru. Could call her a dakini. Could just call her a wrecking ball for preconceptions.

I dunno, can I just answer with a question? What do you call the beginning of something which has become infinite across space & time, but does have a sort of seemingly paradoxical finite individuality as well, which technically i mean there's an entry point, but it enters into the infinite going both ways in time, making the whole idea of 'origin' a conceptual mess, and that's before we even get into the idea of possible multiple incarnations?

She shared a name once. Not a "true name", more just something kinda small and humble from a past, a part of her which was once more completely finite once had a phonetic name. It was Asian. I couldn't begin to spell it. And I've researched it some. the contraction of sounds could be from anywhere from India to Japan. But it's what people called her in that delineation of existence. But I'm not convinced that really represents her 'origin' exactly. It was certainly never treated as relevant. She only shared it because I was feeling down, and I always bugged her about her origin, so she thought it would cheer me up to hear it. I dunno if it was like a 'main thread' of her, or just one tiny bit of no particular import.
jen shi pahoa
gen chi bau hua
gin she paohwa
genshi tao hua
Any of these spellings would be very likely mostly wrong (not to mention, obviously spelled in the wrong language, with the wrong characters).
I've sometimes called her jen, or jenshi. But she says not to use labels with her. And has a firmly established disregard for the accuracy of human historical documentation, doubly so in theological matters. But I don't exactly follow instructions by the letter ;) it's an understood thing. I like to tease hehe.
Do you feel the "mass" even when not concentrating at all at her? I.e. when doing daily routines/work/etc.?
hmmm
I feel like any focus on her creates an immediate sense of contact. I'm not sure if that means that I'm not in contact with her when not focusing on her, or if she's more like an old watch which you only notice when you think about it. I'm not sure there's a difference. Technically, I wouldn't describe her as completely separate from myself as a consciousness, so... lets go with omnipresent, but highly variable level of uh... awareness.


Subject changing when dealing with spirits: definitely a reality.

How did she go about making you more familiar with your nature/repressed portions?
um, well, I don't want to be overly specific :P
Best to say she sort of elicited an urge of indulgence of long starved or repressed bits of self. So my initial impression of her was extraordinarily decadent or hedonistic, leaning towards demonic. Sort of evoking and calling to rather frightful bits of self like a seductress. To sort of 'act out' in realms made of imagination, dreamscapes.

Over time this matured though. But it was a sort of... "from the ground up" methodology. Starting from the most primitive, violent, sexual, etc. on up through all parts of consciousness. Not as something to combat... rather the opposite, de-programming that impulse to repress. Embracing all the bits of self, even the most seemingly incompatible bits. Not even as a hierarchy, but rather, all of this, of you, needs to be welcome and a part of the greater awareness of self. To build a more full self awareness, there can't be bits of self outcast from awareness. All of self, together, at one round table, where disagreement is not only allowed, but expected, and it doesn't interfere with an overarching sense of unity. I've sometimes likened it to the idea of MPD (multiple personality disorder) but in a state of hive-mind, not fractured. The horns really hold up the halo, as the joke goes.

There was one sacrifice though. In order for all the rest to work, fear had to be bled out on the altar. Not caution, or self preservation, not timidness, not memories of shyness in youth, not the fun of enjoying horror fiction, etc. all of that's just fine. But... the visceral sensation of fear and the loathing that it engenders, reproach. A thorny spike of wrongthink, festering, blocking wholeness. Like a quicksand sucking at one's feet as they try to go boldly into something difficult. Had to sort of amputate that. And I don't mean repressing it... that would defeat the whole purpose. More destroying it.

I guess this is because connections with a spirit are mental connections, which are always way more deep than social interaction with human beings. The spirits can see deep into your soul and interact with you in a very different way and level than any human could. Not sure if this applies to those who have developed telepathy to sense minds of others. I believe you're one of those people?
yeah
also, yeah.
although, with people, it's far less acute, and far more lopsided and non-reciprocal.
it's a bit depressing really. I haven't put much effort into honing the ability to sense other people in some time. In part, because it's just so one sided. It's only fascinating for so long ;)

I've heard that personal crisis is usually the moment in life when spirit guides step into the picture. Probably since at that time human being is most open to new ideas and approaches. Just my guess, but would make sense, since your story also goes along the same lines.
Definitely was not my first personal crisis. But it was a very holistic confluence of... factors. A lot of different threads all coming to a head. Sometimes when you're making art, you like portions of what it is you're creating, but more and more you end up bumping against a simply un-fixable perspective issue. And as much as you like this bit and that bit, and you may have put a lot of time and effort into the bits, but the larger whole just isn't working. And a person can reach a point where it's just... throw white paint on the canvas, tear it all down, and start anew from the first stroke. Theologically, philosophically, emotionally, life goals, direction, meaning, paradigm... all of it. In art I know when to scrap a work in progress, and just start completely over. Once in a figure drawing session, with a particularly tricky bit of foreshortening in the perspective, in the span of 15 minutes I tore off the paper and started over 7 times. It was a little strange, because nobody else in the class did that. But I was more focused on getting it right than fitting in. In life, i'm not so perceptive hehe, but it was just, getting obvious, even for me, that I was just racking up an ever deeper sunk cost in the currency of time & energy, and it just wasn't turning out right.

I'd love to meet her one day, since I'm a seeker of truth trying to get rid of all lies/delusions/dogma/false beliefs/etc. Just the truth please, whatever that happens to be.

Sounds like she is a bit of a mystic after all: doesn't alwys explain things but keeps you mysteriously in the dark on some topics, without explaining directly why. :)
Sometimes, I think it would take a very long time to even explain why. She's just economical ;)
Also, sometimes, there's a... fundamental difference between hearing something, and KNOWING something. Intimately, viscerally. Sometimes you have to arrive at knowledge first hand.

I don't personally feel that I've woken up fully yet. Only partly. That's what I'm actively working on, but I'm not sure how to go about it. All pointers are more than welcome.
hmmm, well, I don't want to say I'm "all done". That feeeeels like the voice of stagnation which gets along so well with pride :P
I'd rather say uh... the range of self which I am not aware of is "vastly smaller". And for all intents and purposes, it's not a significant focus anymore. I don't wonder where thoughts came from. I can trace all the little sparks of idea & concept through what's usually preconscious free-associative terrain. And I'm pretty comfortable looking at it all kinda 'from within' and 'from without' (even if the latter invokes a bit of an oxymoron hehe).

pointers? uhhh. years of personal work in a nutshell?

vivisect fear, under bright light, with a heavy heart. engage all parts of self as welcome virtues which make up a greater whole, a whole which is vast in 'scope' rather than in 'purity'. I find it helpful to imagine that there is no such thing as a wrong impulse, only rather wrong situations for an impulse. So you kinda find the situation wherein each bit of self is the right fit. I think there are positive expressions for even the most base elements. Put real effort into shifting awareness away from the internal dialogue, more towards what I call "raw thought", which is not parsed down into representational sounds or imagery, but is purely conceptual. Raw thought is also multi-threaded, so that can make it seem a bit complicated and unapproachable at first. Just remember that hand-eye coordination is based almost entirely in raw thought, just need to kinda grok how abstract thought comes from kinda the same origin point. A place partly instinct, partly free associative, and very multithreaded. Step outside the self (not OBE or astrally, but sort of expand awareness and look back on self from without, examine it. Then remember that you're looking through a warped lens, paradigm shift, get a feel for lens warpage in general. Intuit to some degree the actuality of what you're looking at through a warped lens. The self, the family, the home town, the religion, the culture, the nation, the species, the ego, feelings, pet theories, outside influences of all kinds, all are kinda warping influences. The self is sort of a gradient of animal extending into abstract consciousness. Don't try to delineate it, but just be cognizant of that structure and how it works. Don't sugar coat anything, delight in the rawness of everything. And as someone once said "doubt, doubt all, doubt even that thou doubtest" (see, i 'can' play nice with the western esoteric ;) ). And meditate.
and probably some other stuff which isn't coming to mind at the moment :) but I think it hit most of the highlights.
I think it also helps to just think of the self as a sort of conglomerate multiplicity. A lot of facets, with a lot of variation. Don't try to beat all the facets into a uniformity. Just link it all. More a garden than a pattern. There's pattern, but it's fractal, nuanced, organic.

Personally I find that the more I know myself, the more I see a reflection in the universe. Sort of "as within, so without". Except I think that's more intended to speak to things like the law of attraction, and I'm more talking about just that there's a subtle mirror-like sense of things. Also though, bearing in mind, that imagining the universe mirrors self (or vice versa) has a LOT of potential for projection and hubris. I more mean just a passive observation that less and less of things outside what you'd normally think of as self, feels 'foreign' to self, once you get to know the whole thing of self.

Also I kinda think there's no absolute concrete line between self and the external, but that's getting off topic even more than I already have, and I've been rambling all over the place already!

I occasionally seem to sense other peoples ideas and thoughts, but almost always confuse them being my own thoughts. I'm not sure how often this even happens, since the external thoughts feel exactly like my own. Only the few exceptions I can think of are:

1. When I purposefully meditate for a good while and try to sense someone's thoughts, and after a while I manage to do just that.

2. Same but a bit different meditation technique: a couple of days ago I managed to receive a thought which at one moment wasn't there and then like a tomato smashed to my mind fully formed in a nanosecond. BLAM! It was there in all it's "glory".
I generally perceive other peoples' thoughts (when i do perceive actual abstract thoughts) as near instantaneous flashes of concept. Easiest to perceive when I ask a clarifying question. Like if there's a story about characters A and B. And someone says "I'm surprised that he did that" and I'm not sure which character they meant, so i ask "which one?" there's a moment shortly after they read or hear this, where they think the clarification of which one they meant pretty clearly. There needs to be a mutual focus overlapping that moment of time though.

Much easier to perceive a feeling, which can significantly contextualize what's actually been said. (I mean above and beyond tone and body language, etc).

There's an element of making the self "still" in order to perceive others though. The old saying "when mouth is open, ears are closed" applies to silent internal mental processes too ;) even trying too hard to focus might be a detriment.
As I mention in another thread, I have a really good reason to believe this partial psychic blindness is due to something that was done to me earlier in life. At least I have evidence pointing in that direction. Could be a sham though, who knows.
I don't think people are particularly 20/20 at psychic perception. I'm not :P
I dunno if that means there's something 'broken'. I more think of it as 'improving what is' whether it's broken or just badly designed in the first place.
How did your awakening process happen, or were you always sensitive to sensing esoteric things?
lots of negative entity interaction and episodes of precognitive deja vu when i was young.
also some experience with what I think is like a super-egregore, through church. 'the holy spirit' namely. though i no longer believe the surrounding narrative, I did have experiences with the energetic force of it. For a long time, for me, that was "proof", but eventually I decided that it's proof of a metaphysical effect, but not necessarily the supplied narrative.

I found getting out of body to be super helpful with the sense of the nonphysical. much effort led to nothing at all. Finally in a fit of just instinctive 'ooomf' I tried just "lunging out" as I call it. Not overthinking it, not much in the way of method, a lot of "just do it" attitude. I found that just trying to focus on the 'focal nexus' so to speak of self... in terms of energy & mind... and just lunging forward, without the body... that I would momentarily seem to separate. But I'd snap back in. So i tried it, and then focused on trying to cling to the 'out' state, and avoid snapping back in. One way I found to help with that was... well when lunging out, you get a kinda split perspective, like you're partly still 'in', partly 'out'.

This split perspective, is kinda like... there's an old toy called a Viewmaster, which would let you look at 3D images in slides. The slides were on a paper disk, and you'd pull a lever to rotate the disk and see the next one. Really every image was 2 images, 2 slides, so you'd get a stereoscopic view. Pretty antiquated by modern toy standards. But... if you put the slide disk in wrong, you'd see 2 completely different images in each eye (instead of 2 images of the same thing at a slightly different angle). So instead of seeing 2 images of the empire state building, biased slightly to the left & right, to make it look 3D, you'd see an image of the empire state building in one eye piece, and an image of the Eiffel tower for example in the other. Because the paper disk was put in wrong.

Now the utility of this example in the viewmaster may depend a bit on being abidextrously eye'd (which i am, I don't have a left or right bias in eye favoritism). So I found there would be these 2 super-imposed images. each of them about equally between translparent and opaque. (actually, it's much the same as when you use a paper towel tube to try to see a hole in your hand). Anyway, I found I could focus 'mentally' on one image and it would become more opaque while the other became more transparent. And then shift my focus (mentally) onto the other image, and it would become the more opaque image, etc.

The sliding back into body issue, reminded me of how your focus would shift in the viewmaster. You didn't so much move laterally back into body. More like the out of body perspective would fade out while the in body perspective would become more concrete. So... hunch time. I tried to focus very hard, mentally, on the out of body perspective, immediately after "lunging forward" with my mind/energy. voila, the out of body perspective became more opaque, and the in body perspective became more transparent. A bit of practice required. feels like learning to write with the wrong hand (I'm not ambidextrous hand-wise hehe). In time, it gets far easier. You don't have to lunge anywhere even. You can sit in body, and just focus on the 'exo-body-perspective'.

What you see, i think, requires some interpretive guesswork though, :) I wouldn't take everything at face value. Also, I find that when using it to try to 'remote view' physical things at a distance, there's a bit of a mental block. You know how in dreams, sometimes there are faceless people? I don't mean something terrifying, just like characters in the dream which just aren't flushed out. Same thing if you try to read text in a dream, often it's just filler 'junk', and if by chance you actually stop to try to read text in a dream it's illegible. You'd probably have to have some lucid dreaming experience to know what i mean, cuz the natural tendency is to just not pay attention to such things while dreaming. Anyway, I find that there's a similar sort of thing that goes on with remote viewing through OBE. Like the brain is on some level saying "no no, I don't know what that is, i can't see it!" and it's actually blocking what you might see with that sort of veil of vagueness.

However, you can kinda trick the brain, if you 'after the fact' try to examine details which you hadn't considered while you were OBE. For example, the color or layout of a room. If you tried to think of looking at those things while OBE, the brain would try to vague them up. BUT if you retroactively think "oh, what color was the room, what was it's shape?" then you can remember those details, from before your brain knew to muck it up. The brain can be an uncooperative thing :P It feels like the same 'vibe' as second guessing your intuition when you're emotionally involved in something. Like on a first date, what is he/she thinking? yeah, I'm not "still" enough to tell, I'm on the edge of my seat! So I think the more relaxed and casual you are with viewing, the better OBE remote viewing will work.

Also, telling the brain "no, seriously, I CAN see, I've proven it before, with details I wasn't actively thinking about while OBE, brain, don't be a goober, chill out, and just lemme look, and don't fret about causality violations, we've already disproven causality violations anyway". But that's more remote viewing the physical. The nonphysical is more just prone to interpretive symbolism, which 'can' be misleading if you're generating symbolism emotionally and then interpretting it intellectually. pay close attention to the 'feel' attached to symbolism for context. If people are taught that certain colors or symbols or archetypes mean certain things, then it probably will 'for them'. But I think you're more open to 'perception' the less 'preconception' you bring to it.

Anyway, I approach perception of the nonphysical via a kinda OBE-centric slant, rather than a 3rd eye slant (including in-body OBE perspective). Though i'm not convinced there's a noteworthy difference, just different conceptual routes I think.

Yep, by shining the truth all around you when appropriate and hope for the best. Truth is rarely nice and comforting, which is not what most people are willing to listen. Unfortuantely regular Joe wants to listen sweet lies instead of truths that hurt. That's why the world is in such a state :(
Reminds me of the few times I've tried my hand at playing "psychic" in the traditional cultural sense. Everything people want to REALLY know about... are all things they already know deep down, but can't come to terms with. I get jack shit trying to 'sense' what's going to happen in a person's life. But I get plenty of what "they" THINK will happen, or fear will happen, or wish would happen, etc. Often extending into a kinda preconscious layer of thought, which they're not consciously aware of. So the question then becomes not so much figuring out the truth, but figuring out how to sugar coat the truth such that they feel like they can consciously engage with what it is they already know deep down. But if they wanna know their lucky lottery numbers, i got nothing :P

I doubt any skill/discipline in the world has a place which you can call "learned it all, finished and done". :) There's always tons more to learn, regardless of the discipline of interest.
Yeah, but I also don't want to elaborate on how the world is flat, right before i figure out that it's a slightly eliptical ovoid :P
I'm being a little overly perfectionistic though, i know.

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Kath
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Re: Coincidence?

Post by Kath »

Amor wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:43 am
When another entity shares its light body with a human, the human will have a temporary access to the perceptions of that entity. Group meditation often works better because of the joint light body formed.
what's temporary about the access?
once you know an energy signature, can it realistically be re-hidden?
I have some ideas how it might be. But I'd never be able to hide an energy signature from myself.

OneOfFourth
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Re: Coincidence?

Post by OneOfFourth »

Lots of stuff to answer to, so I'll answer during this weekend properly. But before I do, I have to comment on this one thing I noticed:

In your previous post you mentioned:
Kath wrote: My mentor didn't interact with me until I was in a place where i had shed a lot of baggage, and was asking the right questions
Every time I read that part of the post (several times while writing my previous post/answer), I read "cabbage" for some weird reason. This happened numerous times and I felt it was silly and funny. I almost wanted to mention it and make a joke about it in my previous post but decided that it would just make my answer longer.

Now you mentioned in your post:
Kath wrote: Do you like cabbage?
"what's cabbage?", not to mention "I am cabbage"

(...and lots and lots of more cabbage in that post...)
Weird coincidences have become my regular daily life. I'm starting to think I'm supposed to start figuring out what the actual reason is that I constantly run into them. So here goes:

1. Did I see what was coming up for me in the future, in your post?
2. Did I influence you without knowing to write stuff about cabbage?
3. Did you influence me to think about cabbage when reading your earlier post?
4. Did something else influence you or me or both of us?
5. Something else happened; what?

Any ideas? I'd like to figure out what might be causing stuff like this.
Seeker of truth.
God is the thought of/about something.

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Amor
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Re: Coincidence?

Post by Amor »

>Every time I read that part of the post (several times while writing my previous post/answer), I read "cabbage"

Go back in time to the event and watch the process by which the optical imagery is translated into words in the brain.

How many intelligences are involved? What are their attitudes to you?

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