Coincidence?

OneOfFourth
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 231
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:51 am

Re: Coincidence?

Post by OneOfFourth »

Amor wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 11:57 pm Go back in time to the event and watch the process by which the optical imagery is translated into words in the brain.

How many intelligences are involved? What are their attitudes to you?
I don't think I was able to do that. No idea where to start.

I tried looking at the moment when there was baggage/cabbage and traced my vision backwards into my head/mind. My minds eye vision eventually came out from the other side of my head and saw some extra stuff at the back of my head (which i got rid of) :
- lots of "junk" looking stuff that was hard to get rid of.
- some black blob, which came out easily.
- some entity which identified as "Jessica". Don't know anyone by that name so no idea what kind of entity it might have been, if any. Often entities have had much weirder names, even such that they don't resemble any human achievable voice. No idea if it was just my imagination or not. When I asked it mentioned that it was sent there to keep me safe by pointing out things and keeping other stuff hidden from me.

From the side of my head it looked like there was weird yellow energy arch which felt like it somehow meant "care". I moved my vision to my heart and saw that it was completely covered with thin dark grey layer which let no light through. Only very tiny spot was not covered by it and very bright white light shone from that tiny spot. Cleaned some of it up and felt strong euphoria. After cleaning about half of it I decided to stop; the euphoria was building at such a rate that it might not have been healthy if I had cleaned all of it at once, so I left half of it unfinished.
Seeker of truth.
God is the thought of/about something.

OneOfFourth
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 231
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:51 am

Re: Coincidence?

Post by OneOfFourth »

Kath wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 11:44 am So in this sense, if god (or whatever you'd call such a consciousness) were 'everything', 'infinite', then god would have no mind. No "I", where "I" would carry any meaning. "I" compared to what? For such a consciousness there is no "Not I". It's a meaningless concept for such a consciousness. Similarly, no "when". No "why".
One way to look at it could be that you imagine a human being as a tiny biological cell. God would be the creature that the tiny cell is part of. Basically "as above, so below" (if one believes in that) would point out that that humans are part of a larger consciousness, which is owned by something really big, like Universe or something. Again, it's debatable if that's actually true or not.

Kath wrote: If meditation on nothing brings one closer to divinity (I'm just cruising with that term, I think it could be described in less religious terms just as well). I think it's because decentralization of self awareness into just awareness, and ultimately just existence... is basically several steps closer to the intrinsic nature of anything like a universal consciousness.
Hmm, interesting point. As when you try to connect your mind with someone elses mind, you do exactly the same, but instad of emptying your mind, you try to become the other's mind? In the case of Universe there would be no mind; hence empty your own mind to connect with the Universe?

Kath wrote: Which is to say I'm not completely sold on the pros of ego dissolution, in the effort to be infinite and serene.
There are some major drawback if you get rid of ego:

1. You won't care about anything anymore. The less ego you have left, the less things matter to you. I heard a story about one person who eventually stopped eating. Eating was the last thing that kept the guy connected to this reality. When that part of the ego was gone, he starved to death because eating didn't matter to him anymore.

2. According to some study, getting rid of most of your ego can actually make you more suceptible to how other think and act. You won't copy them consciously, but since your ego isn't in the way anymore, you can easily absorb ideas and influences from people around you, eventually becoming like them without realizing.

3. Many gurus who have gotten rid of most of their egos have started seeing people as tools to advance their own agenda. This is because they don't care anymore, it resembles psychopathy; regardless of what they decide to do, their conscience isn't in the way anymore.

Just things to be aware of.

Kath wrote: I dunno, can I just answer with a question? What do you call the beginning of something which has become infinite across space & time, but does have a sort of seemingly paradoxical finite individuality as well, which technically i mean there's an entry point, but it enters into the infinite going both ways in time, making the whole idea of 'origin' a conceptual mess, and that's before we even get into the idea of possible multiple incarnations?
Kinda like a situation, where you had a glass ball which contained an infinite universe inside it. You put the glass ball under a powerful microscope and look what's inside. You see some old lady walking a dog in there and you ask yourself "Where dies the universe end and the old lady begin?" Well, they're kind of the same thing, except the lady is just a small part of the universe. :)

Kath wrote: Embracing all the bits of self, even the most seemingly incompatible bits. Not even as a hierarchy, but rather, all of this, of you, needs to be welcome and a part of the greater awareness of self. To build a more full self awareness, there can't be bits of self outcast from awareness. All of self, together, at one round table, where disagreement is not only allowed, but expected, and it doesn't interfere with an overarching sense of unity. I've sometimes likened it to the idea of MPD (multiple personality disorder) but in a state of hive-mind, not fractured. The horns really hold up the halo, as the joke goes.
Sounds like what I've started doing just recently. More along the lines of Carl Jung's shadow work though. I.e. give voice to the things in yourself which you don't like or hinder you in some way or irritate you etc. Give them from in your mind and have discussions with that thing you gave voice and form in your mind. Never judge, but listen and act like a mentor to it: try to figure out how to help it out. Very powerful stuff actually. You very quickly find out why things grind you the wrong way and what/how to change in yourself to fix that.

Kath wrote: I'd rather say uh... the range of self which I am not aware of is "vastly smaller". And for all intents and purposes, it's not a significant focus anymore. I don't wonder where thoughts came from. I can trace all the little sparks of idea & concept through what's usually preconscious free-associative terrain. And I'm pretty comfortable looking at it all kinda 'from within' and 'from without' (even if the latter invokes a bit of an oxymoron hehe).

vivisect fear, under bright light, with a heavy heart. engage all parts of self as welcome virtues which make up a greater whole, a whole which is vast in 'scope' rather than in 'purity'. I find it helpful to imagine that there is no such thing as a wrong impulse, only rather wrong situations for an impulse. So you kinda find the situation wherein each bit of self is the right fit.
So it's both "know yourself" and "as above, so below"?

Once you learn more what you are and what's inside you, you learn to observe more acutely what's going on in your mind etc. So you know better and better in which ways you are (or can be) connected to "outside world". etc.?

I'll start doing that daily from now on and see what happens. Thanks!

Kath wrote: One way I found to help with that was... well when lunging out, you get a kinda split perspective, like you're partly still 'in', partly 'out'.
I got the following instructions mysteriously from somewhere, some time ago, while waiting to fall asleep:

1. Close eyes.
2. Focus intensly on something for couple of seconds.
3. Relax for couple of seconds.
4. Fly upwards.

Kath wrote: I find that when using it to try to 'remote view' physical things at a distance, there's a bit of a mental block. You know how in dreams, sometimes there are faceless people? I don't mean something terrifying, just like characters in the dream which just aren't flushed out.
I don't remember seeing faceless people in my dreams :-/ They always have easily visible and recognizable faces. I've heard that idea before that people often see faceless people in dreams. To me that's very unusual. Can't think of a time when I wasn't able to see someone's face.

Kath wrote: Same thing if you try to read text in a dream, often it's just filler 'junk', and if by chance you actually stop to try to read text in a dream it's illegible.
Yep, that happens every time I try to look some small details in a dream.

Kath wrote: I find that there's a similar sort of thing that goes on with remote viewing through OBE. Like the brain is on some level saying "no no, I don't know what that is, i can't see it!" and it's actually blocking what you might see with that sort of veil of vagueness.

However, you can kinda trick the brain, if you 'after the fact' try to examine details which you hadn't considered while you were OBE. For example, the color or layout of a room. If you tried to think of looking at those things while OBE, the brain would try to vague them up. BUT if you retroactively think "oh, what color was the room, what was it's shape?" then you can remember those details, from before your brain knew to muck it up.
Hmm, interesting. I have to experiment with that.

Kath wrote: pay close attention to the 'feel' attached to symbolism for context. If people are taught that certain colors or symbols or archetypes mean certain things, then it probably will 'for them'.
This is actually how I sometimes interact with spirits: I get shown visuals without audio. I have to play the "guess what the imagery means" game. Once I get the first "astral video playback" right, the video goes to the next one etc. Until I get (more or less) the message right. Tedious work :-(
Seeker of truth.
God is the thought of/about something.

User avatar
Kath
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 419
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:29 am

Re: Coincidence?

Post by Kath »

OneOfFourth wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:21 pm One way to look at it could be that you imagine a human being as a tiny biological cell. God would be the creature that the tiny cell is part of. Basically "as above, so below" (if one believes in that) would point out that that humans are part of a larger consciousness, which is owned by something really big, like Universe or something. Again, it's debatable if that's actually true or not.
that's kinda my modeling of things.
although I'd point out that it's the finite localized pinpoints of consciousness which have identity, intention, perspective, opinion, etc. So it's kinda the opposite of a top-down hierarchical system.
I guess i model 'potential' and 'intention' as naturally sorted to opposite ends of a continuum, and my approach to magic is trying to bridge that inverse bell curve.

Hmm, interesting point. As when you try to connect your mind with someone elses mind, you do exactly the same, but instad of emptying your mind, you try to become the other's mind? In the case of Universe there would be no mind; hence empty your own mind to connect with the Universe?
um, I find it useful to imagine the self (both consciousness and energy body) as having 'parts', which don't necessarily all engender all of the same qualities at the same time. So there's kinda a mixed-state structure to it. Like you make a very still passive part which very easily resonates with an outside input, but with another part of self you give it directionality, and point it at the subject. This later would be "intentful" though, so by nature not 'still/passive'. To do more interesting things I think you need to be able to subdivide self into disparate tasks & states, so that you can be a bowl of water for example, not 'just water' or 'just a bowl'. One can sort of make 'part' of the self highly mutable and receptive, easily entrained with any outside source, while containing that alongside more willful components of self.

Also energy flows between people a lot.
so increasing that flow effects empathy (and ultimately receptive telepathy i think).
Anything which increases that connection will increase the perception volume. I think it could be as simple as being within someone's "personal space", or having eye contact, or touch, those 3 seem to unavoidably case some energy interaction. But also just mutual focus in any form of real time communication can be fairly potent.

Um, creating a sort of 'current draw' can increase incoming flow which I think emphasizes sensation of the subject's emissions.

On somewhat more morally gray turf, one could set up a kind of push-pull combination which can be very strongly influential on another person's emotional or mental state. Hypnotism is a sort of modern offshoot of the more vague idea of "mesmerism". Mesmerism is somewhat more 'assertive' in approach and has this sort of push-pull.

Also, I think the border between self and other, in terms of both consciousness and energy, is best regarded as not exactly a concretely separate categorization. There's a blurry middle ground. It can be observed in any interesting behavioral trait in crowds of people.

I think perception of others' emotive and sometimes thought content, can be approached fairly passively, or fairly assertively, or any combination thereof. A very passive approach can work fine. more invasive posturing can possibly yield more vivid results though.

Um, a more assertive approach to inter-mind interactions should be regarded with some caution though. Depending on the sort of structural integrity of the subject's sense of self, it's possible to kinda accidentally "thrall" someone. To some degree, any and all interaction is influential. So a completely passive coexistence isn't really even possible. But if you ramp up your 'stage presence' too high, you can kinda mess people up.

One watermark experience I had, was at a party. A male friend of mine was fairly drunk, and seemed to be entangled in a series of events which would result in him having a physical fight with a sober person, who was also a black belt. I could kinda see things unfolding rather poorly. So I intervened. I 'thought' that since he was drunk, and very agitated, that I would have to push pretty hard to have any impact. So i touched his forearm, and spoke briefly to him with eye contact, and pushed pretty hard. But without my meaning to, I caused him to be fully 'tranced'. Like at that point someone could have told him to quack like a duck, and he would, or tell him that he's on fire, and he needs to jump in the pool, and he would. His sense of self and self originated will, were rather completely disabled. I was surprised by this. And I saw it as possibly dangerous. So without drawing attention to it, i kinda pulled him aside to a more quiet area, and just talked & hung out with him, basically babysat him, until he snapped out of it.

What was a little alarming about the experience, was that I didn't mean to trance him. I just improvised a kinda blend of techniques on the fly, and damn near instantly tranced him, even though he was agitated, drunk, and distracted. At least one facet of self thought "wow cool!", but the larger consensus was that the situation represented a problem. I'm not suggesting that power corrupts, I rather think it just unveils what's there. But I was not happy about the idea of having a really significant paradigm shift in how I regarded other ostensibly free willed people. If you go around collecting sycophants and yes-men, you'll ultimately end up rather completely 'alone'. Like, you kinda need for 'others' to have sovereign free will, in order to have meaningful interactions.

So that was kinda the endpoint for a roughly 15 year multi-disciplinary process of trying to develop social skills. I eventually overshot the target, and decided to scale things back considerably.

But um, I guess I got off topic a bit. An ounce of 'invasiveness' mixed with a pound of receptiveness, fairly solid mutual focus/communication, and/or eye contact, touch, or close proximity, is a pretty potent blend for reading people. Again though, not really looking to read the "abstraction of thought" as it exists in the subject's internal dialog, but rather the more raw-format conceptual impulses which precede internal dialog abstractions. And emotive emissions linger in an ongoing fashion, while thoughts are more "blink and you'll miss it".

As for success, feeling emotions is easy, feeling hidden emotions is still somewhat easy, picking up on 'tidbits' of thought, like clarifications and such, fairly common. Getting really complex abstract ideas intact (which are off topic, and not at all likely to have been 'figured out' deductively)? kinda rare, but i've had it happen often enough that I'm convinced it does happen, and have convinced some other people of it as well.

In one particular example, it was a "hey guess what?" and I said "what?" and they said, "no no guess..." and then it was like I knew exactly what they were thinking, all at once, in a flash, and it was detailed, and I had NOOOOO way of guessing what they were about to tell me, not in a billion years, but I just blurted out "oh my god you...(content clipped for privacy reasons)". And I didn't say it as a question, like, just on a gut level, i knew, and they knew that i knew, they could hear it in my tone. And it kinda freaked out the other person.

But far more common, would be kinda just using emotive and unspoken 'inklings' here & there to build a more complete picture of the subtext of what's really going on in an exchange with someone else. Kind of a mixed approach, a little psychology, a little body language, a little empathic sense, some deductive reasoning, etc. in a blender.

I am naturally surprisingly susceptible to crazy people though. When people 'believe' what they are telling me, I can tell, and I tend to be perhaps slightly overly receptive to what they're saying as a result. It's greatly tempered by a kinda cynical slant though, where i tend to think most people don't know what they're talking about much of the time :P

Kinda like a situation, where you had a glass ball which contained an infinite universe inside it. You put the glass ball under a powerful microscope and look what's inside. You see some old lady walking a dog in there and you ask yourself "Where dies the universe end and the old lady begin?" Well, they're kind of the same thing, except the lady is just a small part of the universe. :)
yeah

I think it's useful to work on sort of concurrent multi-phased frames of mind. Which sounds like an overly nerdy way to put it hehe. But um, so if at one time you meditate to achieve a kind of no-mind state, but at another time you make yourself very focused on something, can you juggle both at once? Obviously not "completely", but can you kinda extend the breadth of your... lets call it 'array of mental states', to include both at once? Be at once both the silent observer, and the involved participant, at the same time, just on different levels of mind.

The tricky bit isn't so much the two states themselves (although that may be tricky), but the juggling them both concurrently.
I think this also relates to the doing of magic (at least the way i do it). To do it effectively it's like you need both the application of force, but also tactile feedback. You can't throw a ball very well if you can't feel the ball in your hand. All force with no feedback is just random flailing about, and all feedback/sensitivity with no force is just observing but not doing anything.

So in a way I guess my model of magic extends to other pursuits, like exploring the idea of ego and egolessness as concurencies rather than opposites, and examining the border between self and universe. I think one of the reasons much of the metaphysical hasn't jived well with the concrete sciences is because it gets onto turf which has this sort of "impossible shapes" nature to it. Where some impossible shapes may be impossible in the commonly intuitive sense of geometric dimensional states, but that doesn't exclude them for existing in the broader reality necessarily.

I dunno, I feel like i'm throwing words at ideas here, and missing mostly :)

Sounds like what I've started doing just recently. More along the lines of Carl Jung's shadow work though. I.e. give voice to the things in yourself which you don't like or hinder you in some way or irritate you etc. Give them from in your mind and have discussions with that thing you gave voice and form in your mind. Never judge, but listen and act like a mentor to it: try to figure out how to help it out. Very powerful stuff actually. You very quickly find out why things grind you the wrong way and what/how to change in yourself to fix that.
Definitely a LOT of Jung in how I look at things & learned things.
And early interactions with my mentor could be viewed as extravagant shadow work.

So it's both "know yourself" and "as above, so below"?

Once you learn more what you are and what's inside you, you learn to observe more acutely what's going on in your mind etc. So you know better and better in which ways you are (or can be) connected to "outside world". etc.?

I'll start doing that daily from now on and see what happens. Thanks!
that's, yeah, pretty much :)
I didn't approach it from the 'as above so below' mindset. It was more a late-stage observation that "oh, that makes more sense than i used to think it did".
know better and better in which ways you are (or can be) connected to "outside world"
just want to quote that bit again for emphasis ;)

I got the following instructions mysteriously from somewhere, some time ago, while waiting to fall asleep:

1. Close eyes.
2. Focus intensly on something for couple of seconds.
3. Relax for couple of seconds.
4. Fly upwards.
hmm, i tried a lot of approaches. eventually i kinda threw up my hands and with 100% "just do it" mentality, just 'lunged forward' with my sense of self. and there was a brief, partial, separation of sorts, and with a little observation & tinkering it took no time at all to refine that into a method. I was a little annoyed that all the approaches I had tried before then didn't bring up the possibility of just "apply 'oomf', shift focus, done".

I don't remember seeing faceless people in my dreams :-/ They always have easily visible and recognizable faces. I've heard that idea before that people often see faceless people in dreams. To me that's very unusual. Can't think of a time when I wasn't able to see someone's face.

Kath wrote: Same thing if you try to read text in a dream, often it's just filler 'junk', and if by chance you actually stop to try to read text in a dream it's illegible.
Yep, that happens every time I try to look some small details in a dream.
really the text or the faces are just examples of the same 'idea' in dreams, just incomplete details.
And the brain seems to dislike filling in details while OBE (and looking at the physical) if said knowledge would constitute a causality violation.

Kath wrote: I find that there's a similar sort of thing that goes on with remote viewing through OBE. Like the brain is on some level saying "no no, I don't know what that is, i can't see it!" and it's actually blocking what you might see with that sort of veil of vagueness.

However, you can kinda trick the brain, if you 'after the fact' try to examine details which you hadn't considered while you were OBE. For example, the color or layout of a room. If you tried to think of looking at those things while OBE, the brain would try to vague them up. BUT if you retroactively think "oh, what color was the room, what was it's shape?" then you can remember those details, from before your brain knew to muck it up.
Hmm, interesting. I have to experiment with that.
It's a little tricky to experiment with, because any pre-planned experimentation tends to tip off the brain :P its more a retro-active looking for details which you weren't consciously looking for while doing it.

I've found you can 'somewhat' erode the brain's vigilance in fogging things up, kinda beat it down with repeated examples of successes, and just reduce the reflexive need for causality logic :P
success breeds confidence, and wears down doubt.

This is actually how I sometimes interact with spirits: I get shown visuals without audio. I have to play the "guess what the imagery means" game. Once I get the first "astral video playback" right, the video goes to the next one etc. Until I get (more or less) the message right. Tedious work :-(
hmmm, that sounds like a very short explanation of something a little bit complex. could you expand it it a little?
I think i have an inkling of what you mean, but i'm a little fuzzy on it :)

OneOfFourth
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 231
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:51 am

Re: Coincidence?

Post by OneOfFourth »

Kath wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:58 pm um, I find it useful to imagine the self (both consciousness and energy body) as having 'parts'

To do more interesting things I think you need to be able to subdivide self into disparate tasks & states, so that you can be a bowl of water for example, not 'just water' or 'just a bowl'.
I have to test how that works for me. Sounds like it makes some sense in my mind. It's somehow similar to one technique (which I'm not 100% sure how well it worked in the end) which I came up and tried:
When asking yes/no type questions from spirits, you guide them to cause sensations in your left/right hand (left/right = yes/no). Basically if sensation becomes so irritating in your hand that you have to move it, that counts as an answer.

Kath wrote: Also energy flows between people a lot.
so increasing that flow effects empathy (and ultimately receptive telepathy i think).
I've understood that empathy is the key to telepathy. Or empathy AND intuition.

Kath wrote: Anything which increases that connection will increase the perception volume. I think it could be as simple as being within someone's "personal space", or having eye contact, or touch, those 3 seem to unavoidably case some energy interaction. But also just mutual focus in any form of real time communication can be fairly potent.
There must be some truth to what you're saying here. About 20 years ago when someone started a sentence, I could very often tell what content rest of the sentence had before they said it. I.e. I hear less than half the sentence and I know exactly what the rest is going to be (not word for word but what the topic of the sentence is/etc. without them revealing it yet). Then that "talent" went away when I had a burnout. What had changed was my attentiveness during conversations. Before burnout I was very in the moment during discussions. Afterwards I was a bit more distant. Now I tried some days ago being equally attentive and started noticing similar effects again as 20 years ago. I should probably start changing my habits to be more in the present moment during discussions AND to do all kinds of activities which pump up my mental and physical energy level (eat more healthily, sleep better, do more sports, etc.).

I have also noticed that caffeine diminishes my mental energy levels so I won't be equally at present/attentive during conversations. I should drop everything which contains caffeine.

Kath wrote: Um, creating a sort of 'current draw' can increase incoming flow which I think emphasizes sensation of the subject's emissions.
How to create such a "current draw"?

Kath wrote: Also, I think the border between self and other, in terms of both consciousness and energy, is best regarded as not exactly a concretely separate categorization. There's a blurry middle ground. It can be observed in any interesting behavioral trait in crowds of people.
The more I think of it, the more it starts making sense. If I understand you correctly, you mean that when people are close together, their energies/minds/etc. more or less melt together, atleast at the "borders". I.e. let's say every person's consciousness is 4 meters wide. When two people are fairly close together and have a discussion, their overlapping mind areas can be sensed by other people, if they are tuned in to perceive it?

BTW. Have you noticed that it's easier to sense other people's thoughts and emotions from close distance than further away?

Kath wrote: Um, a more assertive approach to inter-mind interactions should be regarded with some caution though. Depending on the sort of structural integrity of the subject's sense of self, it's possible to kinda accidentally "thrall" someone. To some degree, any and all interaction is influential. So a completely passive coexistence isn't really even possible. But if you ramp up your 'stage presence' too high, you can kinda mess people up.
Ah ha! This is good to know. So basically if someone tries to send you a message, you might feel like someone is trying to persuade you into doing something? Kind of like a low powered hypnotic suggestion?

Kath wrote: What was a little alarming about the experience, was that I didn't mean to trance him. I just improvised a kinda blend of techniques on the fly, and damn near instantly tranced him
That's interesting to me. I'm very interested in the mind and what can be done with it / to it.

I have couple of short stories that happened to me earlier this year. I'm not sure if they're 100% related, but some minds were definitely affected somehow.

Story #1:
I was going to a local grocery store and was thinking that it would be nice to have a romantic day for once. Or maybe just a nice friendly smile from a clerk; any positive human encounter would be really welcome that day. I entered the store, collected what I needed and went to the counter. The clerk woman looked really puzzled and gave me a candy bar, which name in english translates something very close to "kiss kiss". I was equally puzzled, not sure if they gave these to all customers who bought enough food or what was the reason for me receiving this candy. After leaving the store I realized that part of my wish came true in a twisted weird way. "No romance related things for you today, but will some Kiss Kiss candy from a complete stranger do the job?"

Story #2:
Same grocery store, a few weeks later. I'm under a lot of financial stress and think that I really need to get some money quickly to pay the bills. After couple of minutes I go to the counter. Another clerk behind the counter is handling the previous customer. The clerk doesn't look at me, but tries to hand me the change (cash) from the previous customer. The customer also doesn't see this happening, since she is packing the food into bags. Obviously I just made a joke out of it so that the clerk noticed what was happening and didn't give the money to a wrong person. But I'm 90% sure if I had not said anything and just took the money, neither of them would have realized money went missing. Thankfully I have very strong sense of morals and I'd never steal.

I have absolutely no idea what the mechanic was behind those two incidents. Was it me doing mind tricks unknowingly? Was it a spell I did unknowingly? Was it manifestation which universe made happen? Was it some spirit/entity which heard what I needed and decided to do something about it? Most of this stuff happens to me by complete accident at random times, in random occasions. I don't usually feel I have any control over it.

Kath wrote: But um, I guess I got off topic a bit. An ounce of 'invasiveness' mixed with a pound of receptiveness, fairly solid mutual focus/communication, and/or eye contact, touch, or close proximity, is a pretty potent blend for reading people.
I have to experiment with those and see if they make it more easy to sense where discussions with people are going. After learning that etheric world is real, I've become really interested in learning all kinds of mind related things.

Can you sense over the phone or through e-mails? What are the limits to sensing other people?

Kath wrote: But far more common, would be kinda just using emotive and unspoken 'inklings' here & there to build a more complete picture of the subtext of what's really going on in an exchange with someone else. Kind of a mixed approach, a little psychology, a little body language, a little empathic sense, some deductive reasoning, etc. in a blender.
Yep, why use only one tool when using all of them at once gives way better results? :)

Kath wrote:
This is actually how I sometimes interact with spirits: I get shown visuals without audio. I have to play the "guess what the imagery means" game. Once I get the first "astral video playback" right, the video goes to the next one etc. Until I get (more or less) the message right. Tedious work :-(
hmmm, that sounds like a very short explanation of something a little bit complex. could you expand it it a little?
I think i have an inkling of what you mean, but i'm a little fuzzy on it :)
Basically I see clearly in my minds eye something visual. Just like watching a video. The sad thing is that the visuals almost never have any audio attached to them. I've seen these visuals in my minds eye my whole life. They are most easily visible when lying in bed, while waiting to fall asleep. I still see them fairly often during the day or while in conversation with someone.

Only last year I started suspecting that they might actually be something more than just random imagery (atleast some of them). To me it seems that my mind is most potent at transforming incoming messages to visuals, instead of to thoughts/audio in my mind. So some of my communication with a random spirit is sometimes "guess what this video means" game. I see a "video" and I have to understand what it means. Then I'm shown the next "video" and I have to understand what's the meaning of that. Then the next one and the next. Kinda like someone doing pantomime and you have to guess the name of the movie etc. But the messages are much more complex than a name of a movie would be.
Last edited by OneOfFourth on Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Seeker of truth.
God is the thought of/about something.

User avatar
Amor
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:57 pm

Re: Coincidence?

Post by Amor »

>no idea what the mechanic was behind those two incidents.

I knew a fellow running an occult book store. One day he asked about an entity that he had become aware of while meditating. So I had a look at the entity and after a little said: It is one of those entities used in the Middle Ages to find treasure.

He said that all his life he had won raffles and lottery prizes.

So his treasure-seeking spirit was still with him.

Do you have such a familiar spirit?

As long as you only obtain what you are entitled to, I do not think there is much problem with such entities.

OneOfFourth
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 231
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:51 am

Re: Coincidence?

Post by OneOfFourth »

Funny that you mentioned: my sister has said many times that I have had ludicrous luck. Maybe there's something to it.

Also a short while ago I hoped that karma finally bounces back and balances some of the evil things Person-X (which I mentioned in another thread) has done to me. I specifically hoped that the next incoming esoteric attack just bounces back instead of hitting me. Now Person-X has a broken leg.
Seeker of truth.
God is the thought of/about something.

User avatar
Amor
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:57 pm

Re: Coincidence?

Post by Amor »

>Now Person-X has a broken leg

There are more subtle ways of dealing with such matters.

Here is a note from a record I sometimes keep:

Recently I have been going to a social bridge (card game) group. I have been maybe 6 times and every time including the first, one or other of the women suggested that I would be happier elsewhere. When I was there playing I always felt a bit nervous and tended to fumble the shuffles. I was surprised at my nervousness but thought no more about it at the time.

Last time one of the women was a bit pointed and the women abandoned the table where they were playing with me and my preferred partner - a man with the same name as me. So it was a boycott but fortunately two new learner males turned up and we had an all male table.

After that I was under ongoing astral attack from two of the women. It was quite uncomfortable so after 2 days I set up a dummy light body and attached the incoming energy flows to that and all was well.

A day later they were still at it, so I put an ankh on each flow to direct it back to them. One of the women weakened quite quickly and her energy line sagged but the other was made of sterner stuff and continued to pour in the energy - presumably not knowing it was coming straight back into her, having gone nowhere near me.

After another day both flows weakened and a day later the flows had largely collapsed.

I was back there this morning and one woman made a point of leaving our table as soon as she had an option, but the other women seemed friendly enough. I had no sense of nervousness. After an hour of play one of the women asked me to join their table where we had a cheerful and friendly game.

I think the 2 women recognise me from monastery lives. I have been the abbot on occasions and perhaps the primary role was to control the thought patterns of the inmates to prevent heresy - and avoid visits from the Holy Inquisition.

In this life, after a complaint, I have learned to turn off that thought control function.

OneOfFourth
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 231
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:51 am

Re: Coincidence?

Post by OneOfFourth »

Both you and Kath have now suggested using a "dummy" target which the incoming attacks can be redirected to. I need to learn to do just that. Where to begin?

EDIT:
The thing doing the tricks/luck/things to me (grocery store stories) is not Entity-A. So there must be more than one benevolent entity with me.

EDIT2:
My synchronizities just sent me simultaneously the same message, from two different sources, which meant that I should learn/use non violent methods for defending myself when dealing with nasty people, even when they themselves are using violence to attack me. I guess this also means bouncing back their own attacks is not the way to go. Since the attacker can end up hurting him/herself.

Yep, would be nice to be able to just deflect/absorb/decoy the incoming attacks and then after awhile send the attacker a message along the lines of: "Thank you for putting in all the work and effort! I appreciate you feel that I'm such an important person in your life. Love you too! XXX --- OneOfFourth"
Seeker of truth.
God is the thought of/about something.

User avatar
Amor
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:57 pm

Re: Coincidence?

Post by Amor »

>using a "dummy" target

Use your energy to build/visualize a light body looking rather like you. Take any adverse flow that is incoming to you and move it to the new light body.

That works for me.

> bouncing back their own attacks is not the way to go

That rather depends on the nature of the attacker. Some attackers are quite unconscious of what they do and it is better to be gentle - e.g. give light from the heart

Some are consciously adverse and I have no trouble returning their energy to them. I do not add any intent to the energy. It is just their own energy coming home.

If an attacker is very nasty I usually deal with its supervisor.

OneOfFourth
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 231
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:51 am

Re: Coincidence?

Post by OneOfFourth »

Amor wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:47 pm >using a "dummy" target

Use your energy to build/visualize a light body looking rather like you. Take any adverse flow that is incoming to you and move it to the new light body.

That works for me.
I noticed two weird energy streams coming out of me. I tried building such a lightbody replica of myself, detached the energy streams from me and put them to the replica. Instantly the replica started fading really fast. If I hadn't removed the streams, the replica would most likely have disappeared completely after few second. Obviously i didn't reattached those energy streams back to myself.
Seeker of truth.
God is the thought of/about something.

User avatar
Amor
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:57 pm

Re: Coincidence?

Post by Amor »

Have you followed those streams back to their sources? Be careful!

OneOfFourth
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 231
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:51 am

Re: Coincidence?

Post by OneOfFourth »

Amor wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 8:25 pm Have you followed those streams back to their sources? Be careful!
No, but I bet good money it's Person-X yet once again, busy at work.
Seeker of truth.
God is the thought of/about something.

User avatar
Amor
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:57 pm

Re: Coincidence?

Post by Amor »

Have I mentioned the technique of demanding "show me your light"?

Most natural entities will respond to that demand and thereby become less dark - unless they are more afraid of their supervisor than of you.

So perhaps with Person-X: give light/love from your heart and require them to show their light.

Be careful of supervisors. They may operate beyond the level of human souls

OneOfFourth
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 231
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:51 am

Re: Coincidence?

Post by OneOfFourth »

Amor wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:55 pm Have I mentioned the technique of demanding "show me your light"?
Yes, but I'm still not sure what to make of it / what it means / how to do it / what to decipher from it.

Amor wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:55 pm Most natural entities will respond to that demand and thereby become less dark - unless they are more afraid of their supervisor than of you.
So when I command an entity to do pretty much anything like "don't attack me!" and it complies, I do exactly the same but instead say "show me your light!" ?

Amor wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:55 pm So perhaps with Person-X: give light/love from your heart and require them to show their light.
What about if it's a human with bad intentions? I assume "show me your light" relies on the good will of the entity to comply?

Amor wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:55 pm Be careful of supervisors. They may operate beyond the level of human souls
What are these supervisors? Are they entities that thrall humans in exchange for humans gaining knowledge and power from the entity? (sounds tragic and sad to me)

What does it mean to be operating beyoned the level of human soul?
Seeker of truth.
God is the thought of/about something.

User avatar
Amor
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:57 pm

Re: Coincidence?

Post by Amor »

>I assume "show me your light" relies on the good will of the entity to comply?

Not in my experience. Put your attention in the light in your own heart - thereby activating your authority.

All natural entities cycle between evolutionary and involutionary energies e.g, breathing.

>Are they entities that thrall humans in exchange for humans gaining knowledge and power from the entity?

Just as there are hierarchies of light there are hierarchies of darkness - to manage the processes of involution. Mostly the dark entities that seek to control humans are looking to feed off them. If the human is valuable to the unfoldment of the planet, then often there will be oppression by dark entities.

Some foolish humans seeking power will assist the dark entities

>What does it mean to be operating beyoned the level of human soul?

The human soul body operates at the top of the 5th plane (mental). There are 4 planes above. Those planes are actually subplanes of the Cosmic Physical plane.

And the Cosmic Phyical plane is a subplane of the Universal Physical plane.

Humans do not seem to have required names for even higher planes.

http://sevensuns.org/Sevensuns/7planes.html

OneOfFourth
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 231
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:51 am

Re: Coincidence?

Post by OneOfFourth »

This just happened:

I was (once again) in the same grocery store I mentioned in my previous post in this thread. I was paying at the counter and was thinking two different things:

1. One thing holding me back is me not being able to decide if spirits/demons are external entities or internal part of our own psyche, acting like they were external entities.

2. I wondered if I had made a test in advance of wanting/hoping/expecting the clerk to say or ask anything extra (except only the standard "That'll be 10.45 euros thank you!"), would the clerk now mention something to me or ask me something.

I paid the groceries and left the thoughts at that and enjoyed the sunny but slightly chilly weather while walking back home. Inside one minute, just before arriving home, an old man drove past me on a bike and said loudly to me "Well, you look like an american soldier walking like that!" He didn't say it in condescending manner. It was just a friendly observation. Less than minute later a woman drove past me on a bike and said "Hello!" in a cheerful voice.

Stuff like this doesn't happen very often here. 95% of the time I can walk around here and no-one says anything to me. But now two people, one after the other, right after me pondering on if something could affect when people talk to me.

Could it be something about my mental state on those short trips to local grocery store that makes it probable for things to take effect much more easily?
Seeker of truth.
God is the thought of/about something.

User avatar
Amor
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:57 pm

Re: Coincidence?

Post by Amor »

> if spirits/demons are external entities or internal part of our own psyche,

The standard human system has some trillions of intelligences ranging from cells to elementals to nature spirits to higher devas.

Some of those intelligences may be unhappy or controlled by adverse intelligences.

In addition there may be possessing intelligences - not to mention various grades of karma.

So the answer to your query is both plus a lot more.

>if something could affect when people talk to me.

For example the nature spirit operating your emotional system may connect with passersby - and they, feeling the connection, say something.

>Could it be something about my mental state

Most humans are not very active mentally. In the examples you gave it looks like an emotional connection

OneOfFourth
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 231
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:51 am

Re: Coincidence?

Post by OneOfFourth »

Hmm, could be. If/when stuff like this happens again, I'll report back here so we'll have more evidence what might be going on.
Seeker of truth.
God is the thought of/about something.

User avatar
Kath
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 419
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:29 am

Re: Coincidence?

Post by Kath »

OneOfFourth wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 10:26 pm I have to test how that works for me. Sounds like it makes some sense in my mind. It's somehow similar to one technique (which I'm not 100% sure how well it worked in the end) which I came up and tried:
When asking yes/no type questions from spirits, you guide them to cause sensations in your left/right hand (left/right = yes/no). Basically if sensation becomes so irritating in your hand that you have to move it, that counts as an answer.
hmmm, I was more thinking of different states of consciousness. Which in and of themselves are not necessarily easy to hone, but somewhat more tricky is inhabiting more than one state of consciousness at the same time.

I guess I'm imagining a sort of situation where one part of your energy body and consciousness are in one state, while another part is in another state, even taking that to a more complex level where there are multiple states going on at once.

As it relates to empathy, I think the most empathic people are very easily influenced by what they perceive. Acting like a big receiving antenna, easily affected by the emotive output of others. I think such people tend to be shy, and tend to have some social anxiety. Often don't want to be touched, or avoid eye contact, because they are easily overwhelmed by the sensations. I think people like this tend towards kinda mirroring the emotive state & frame of mind of the people they're with. I come from a background of being like that myself.

But lets say I took that 'self' and sort of channel that nature of consciousness, very receptive, but... as part of a larger system of states of consciousness. Some part of self being immovable and centered. Some part being grounded. Some part asserting into the space of another. And some part being in that very affected state. Like, making the easily affected self into something of an appendage, and extending that out to someone. Even exaggerating the egoless sensitivity of that part of self.

I dunno if I'm making much sense with how I'm describing things. But basically reaching out with a hand which conforms to the object you're reaching for. But with an arm which bears intent, and a footing which is not really swayed. Feeling what there is to feel, but having a kind of membrane between that and the center of self, so that it is 'felt', but not influential on the broader scale. And as a result, this malleable part of self might be pressed more firmly against another, because it's natural reaction would be to feel overhwelmed, but that's not really happening due to the support of the rest of the structure of self.
I've understood that empathy is the key to telepathy. Or empathy AND intuition.
I think that often, empathy, or telepathy, can "feel" like intuition.
Although for the sake of scientific understanding and growth of knowledge, I try to keep a sharp focus on differentiating between what is deductive, inductive, or 'perceived'.
There must be some truth to what you're saying here. About 20 years ago when someone started a sentence, I could very often tell what content rest of the sentence had before they said it. I.e. I hear less than half the sentence and I know exactly what the rest is going to be (not word for word but what the topic of the sentence is/etc. without them revealing it yet). Then that "talent" went away when I had a burnout. What had changed was my attentiveness during conversations. Before burnout I was very in the moment during discussions. Afterwards I was a bit more distant. Now I tried some days ago being equally attentive and started noticing similar effects again as 20 years ago. I should probably start changing my habits to be more in the present moment during discussions AND to do all kinds of activities which pump up my mental and physical energy level (eat more healthily, sleep better, do more sports, etc.).

I have also noticed that caffeine diminishes my mental energy levels so I won't be equally at present/attentive during conversations. I should drop everything which contains caffeine.

...

The more I think of it, the more it starts making sense. If I understand you correctly, you mean that when people are close together, their energies/minds/etc. more or less melt together, atleast at the "borders". I.e. let's say every person's consciousness is 4 meters wide. When two people are fairly close together and have a discussion, their overlapping mind areas can be sensed by other people, if they are tuned in to perceive it?
Personally I don't notice any decrease in perceptiveness, attentiveness, etc. with caffeine (nor with alcohol for that matter). It could be due to individual differences. I dunno.

The only chemical I've encountered where I noticed which really strongly messes with my sense of others, and of energy in general, is weed. I find the stuff makes me intensely nauseous. And if anything I'd say that it feels like the nausea is more caused by the changes to empathic and energy perception than any physical cause.

Technically anything which acts as a sedative also has a dampening effect, allergy meds, etc., even the blood sugar swings after a big meal. But that seems to dampen every mental capacity equally. While weed seems to really muck up my energy sensitivity severely. Like, if i were a supervillain with mental powers, then my jailers should keep me on a THC iv drip to weaken me hehe. It makes me feel very ill though.

BUT, on the topic of how energy interacts between people in proximity to each other. I think it's useful to carefully study how crowds function, and how sensitive people react to various things. And even little the details of 'social expectations' in human behavior. For example, really looking at the idea of "personal space" as an energy driven idea, rather than as a purely psychological one. Or the etiquette people use in close spaces, like in an elevator. Or how crowds interact at sports venues, movie theaters, concerts, or church. What are people comfortable with? why? or why not? What is the significance of touch or eye contact, examined as something possibly driven by energetic principals rather than psychological ones. How do social hierarchies form? What types of things 'overload' autists? What are expected social behaviors? why? Why would a wolf attack a deer, but give a badger a wide birth? What are the known details of body language? Like prolonged eye contact, or leaning back... what are the implications if such reactions were driven not by 'human nature' exactly, but instead by energy interactions?

Could I "prove" that much of these things are driven by energy interactions? no. However, I could show that viewing them through that lens has very palpable utility, and can be used to predict outcomes, or cause influence. So it's at the bear minimum, a very robust "working model". I tend to view it as 'fairly apparent' even if not easily provable.

I was once a psych major, so I initially came to study and understand such things through a purely psychological modeling. But it amazes me how many details fall into place if you look at them through the lens of a possible energy interaction model.
How to create such a "current draw"?
That I don't know how to explain. For me, it's extraordinarily intuitive, to such an extent that it's tricky to think about the mechanics of 'how'. A bit like asking the centipede how it walks, hehe. I have a background in the psi vamp area. Um, to be clear, I don't define that like many new age books do, there's a tendency for new agers to simply label anyone annoying as a "psychic vampire" just because it's tiring to be around annoying people. On the contrary, I tend to think that a psi vamp is more likely to be somewhat captivating, and is often the person you find yourself opening up to, and sharing things you normally wouldn't. Which can be very helpful to one's peace of mind really.

I've kinda moved on from that model. These days I feel like I could access infinitely more energy than I could know what to do with. So the concept of predation on others' personal energy is a little silly. But, I am naturally wired in a sort of current-drawing, or channeling manner. And I suppose my stint in the psychic vampire model was at least helpful with initially learning energy manipulation and learning to control what was once uncontrolled empathy (resulting in social anxiety).

hmmm,
I guess one way to look at it is this. If you manipulate energy, are you manipulating your own energy, or are you grasping energy around you and manipulating that? Arguably, if you only ever manipulate your own energy, then your peak potential is limited by your personal energy reserves. Meanwhile, if you manipulate energy external to the self, there is at least a potential for considerably more energy to be in play. And when you handle energy, if you move it, or change it's nature in any way, then to a degree you're somewhat taking ownership. It might be more often thought as holding a tool, but in a sense it's also an extension of self. And it can get a bit blurry to see exactly where your hand ends, and the tool begins. Also, if you apply the basic idea in a kinda omni-directional manner, not focused on a particular point, then you can kinda 'grow into the terrain', so to speak. Like roots extending out, holding everything around you. In a sense, grounding is kinda like this, grasping at something large and immovable as a sort of anchor. (although technically i'd argue that it only seems immovable due to relative scale, and that is not an immutable constant).

In a lucid dream, you have control over the dreamscape, like it's an extension of yourself, because it is. In the waking world, there is the consensual reality, your sense of control over your environment is greatly diminished. But, where will, focus, and intent become strong, that sense of control can flare up, in the waking world.

I think empathy (or telepathy) is fundamentally receptive. the energy body, anyone's really not just mine, is always inhaling and exhaling energy. So grasping energy outside the self is just taking something which naturally occurs, and honing it in a more deliberate way. Energy which is not 'of you' becomes part of you, and energy which was 'of you' drifts off. It's a flowing system. You're influenced from without, and you influence that which you're in contact with. And energy is very responsive to the input of any consciousness. Usually as an unintended side effect.. but also potentially as an intended effect.

I'm a part of a larger system, a being next to me is also a part of the same larger system. Where do I end, and the other being begin exactly? The other being may say "no i'm completely sovereign", but where is that sovereign individual self in a crowd when panic flows through it for example? The potential, in really fully feeling and knowing these things on a visceral level ...at the same time contains both terrifying potential for sinister intent, but also immense potential for selflessness, and a great and deep empathy.


BTW. Have you noticed that it's easier to sense other people's thoughts and emotions from close distance than further away?
easier? yeah. I don't think distance is a fundamental barrier though. It just requires more uh, 'technique' to overcome distance. the energy interactions themselves are I think only habitually localized, but not limited to localized interaction. I don't think there's any drop-off in potency over distance, just an increased need for methodological finesse once the distance is greater than your immediate surroundings. You can't be lazy and just lean on the natural interactions of eye contact & such at a distance hehe.

Ah ha! This is good to know. So basically if someone tries to send you a message, you might feel like someone is trying to persuade you into doing something? Kind of like a low powered hypnotic suggestion?
um, it 'can' work like that ya. But I was more speaking of... ethical and existential pitfalls of exercising overt influence.

That's interesting to me. I'm very interested in the mind and what can be done with it / to it.

I have couple of short stories that happened to me earlier this year. I'm not sure if they're 100% related, but some minds were definitely affected somehow.

Story #1:
I was going to a local grocery store and was thinking that it would be nice to have a romantic day for once. Or maybe just a nice friendly smile from a clerk; any positive human encounter would be really welcome that day. I entered the store, collected what I needed and went to the counter. The clerk woman looked really puzzled and gave me a candy bar, which name in english translates something very close to "kiss kiss". I was equally puzzled, not sure if they gave these to all customers who bought enough food or what was the reason for me receiving this candy. After leaving the store I realized that part of my wish came true in a twisted weird way. "No romance related things for you today, but will some Kiss Kiss candy from a complete stranger do the job?"

Story #2:
Same grocery store, a few weeks later. I'm under a lot of financial stress and think that I really need to get some money quickly to pay the bills. After couple of minutes I go to the counter. Another clerk behind the counter is handling the previous customer. The clerk doesn't look at me, but tries to hand me the change (cash) from the previous customer. The customer also doesn't see this happening, since she is packing the food into bags. Obviously I just made a joke out of it so that the clerk noticed what was happening and didn't give the money to a wrong person. But I'm 90% sure if I had not said anything and just took the money, neither of them would have realized money went missing. Thankfully I have very strong sense of morals and I'd never steal.

I have absolutely no idea what the mechanic was behind those two incidents. Was it me doing mind tricks unknowingly? Was it a spell I did unknowingly? Was it manifestation which universe made happen? Was it some spirit/entity which heard what I needed and decided to do something about it? Most of this stuff happens to me by complete accident at random times, in random occasions. I don't usually feel I have any control over it.
all the possibilities seem 'possible', hard to say without seeing it first hand hehe.

It might be useful to read some on the topic of 'mesmerism' as it was written about before 'hypnotism' replaced it in the modern cultural understanding. To no small extent, hypnotism is a sort of "scientific appologetics", making it all fit comfortably within the current scientific model. In hypnotism "it's the subconscious mind!", which I think is true, but only a half-truth. As originally conceived, mesmerism was somewhat more involved with the interaction of consciousnesses and something akin to an energy interplay between them.

I have to experiment with those and see if they make it more easy to sense where discussions with people are going. After learning that etheric world is real, I've become really interested in learning all kinds of mind related things.

Can you sense over the phone or through e-mails? What are the limits to sensing other people?
yeah. much more so over the phone though. but it's not dependent on hearing the tone of their voice, it's more to do with it being real-time communication (mutual focus at the same moment in time). text based chat is also pretty good, as it's real-time. email (or forum posts hehe) are... harder. like trying to use just footprints to recreate what you might have seen if you were there when it was written. its a lot more distant.

Yep, why use only one tool when using all of them at once gives way better results? :)
ya.
I mean i like to differentiate between these things when trying to figure out the validity of assumptions or models I'm using for 'metaphysical' interactions. But, in practice, when seeking results, a holistic approach definitely.

Basically I see clearly in my minds eye something visual. Just like watching a video. The sad thing is that the visuals almost never have any audio attached to them. I've seen these visuals in my minds eye my whole life. They are most easily visible when lying in bed, while waiting to fall asleep. I still see them fairly often during the day or while in conversation with someone.

Only last year I started suspecting that they might actually be something more than just random imagery (atleast some of them). To me it seems that my mind is most potent at transforming incoming messages to visuals, instead of to thoughts/audio in my mind. So some of my communication with a random spirit is sometimes "guess what this video means" game. I see a "video" and I have to understand what it means. Then I'm shown the next "video" and I have to understand what's the meaning of that. Then the next one and the next. Kinda like someone doing pantomime and you have to guess the name of the movie etc. But the messages are much more complex than a name of a movie would be.
hmmm, partly i want to think that you're more open to your own subconscious at such times so they could be just imagery from there. On the other hand, you're more open to 'everything' when in such mental states, so it could come from outside your own consciousness as well. And on top of that is the 3rd possibility, where your subconscious is more open to external input, and you're more open to your subconscious when in such a mental state, so it could be a 3-way party between conscious, subconscious, and stuff external to your consciousness.

Perhaps of interest, Edgar Cayce (a psychic from the first half of the 20th century) used a technique where he claimed to access his 'higher self' at the moment when he was in a hypnagogic trance as he was falling asleep. He would have an intermediary ask him questions just as he was dozing off.

User avatar
Kath
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 419
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:29 am

Re: Coincidence?

Post by Kath »

OneOfFourth wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 2:04 pm
Amor wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:47 pm >using a "dummy" target

Use your energy to build/visualize a light body looking rather like you. Take any adverse flow that is incoming to you and move it to the new light body.

That works for me.
I noticed two weird energy streams coming out of me. I tried building such a lightbody replica of myself, detached the energy streams from me and put them to the replica. Instantly the replica started fading really fast. If I hadn't removed the streams, the replica would most likely have disappeared completely after few second. Obviously i didn't reattached those energy streams back to myself.
I don't find that it needs to look like you. It just needs to "feel like you".
basically a duplicate of your energy signature.

it depends on the nature of the problem though. some things might be just as happy with any energy signature, so long as they get what they want. While other connections might be more explicitly targeted to you personally. it's the later situation where an energy signature decoy would be helpful.

User avatar
Kath
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 419
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:29 am

Re: Coincidence?

Post by Kath »

OneOfFourth wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:48 am 1. One thing holding me back is me not being able to decide if spirits/demons are external entities or internal part of our own psyche, acting like they were external entities.
...

Could it be something about my mental state on those short trips to local grocery store that makes it probable for things to take effect much more easily?
I think its actually pretty common for things people imagine to be 'demons' and such are actually a part of themselves.
On the other hand, some things seem quite external in origin.


Your mental state can significantly effect the behavior of others. Actually I think it's unavoidable. Although usually it's normally unintentional. You can do it deliberately though too. At the extreme, you could push out a sort of radiance, while also 'grasping the terrain' around you, and creating a sort of 'larger than life' personal presence or 'glamoury'. seduction can work along similar lines as well hehe. But even just projecting a positive and outgoing 'vibe' can make people much more likely to just say "hello" when passing by. or projecting a relaxed state can make people warm to you because most people are not very relaxed, and they're drawn to the sensation and enjoy basking in it. There's many directions it could take.

OneOfFourth
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 231
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:51 am

Re: Coincidence?

Post by OneOfFourth »

Kath wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:08 pm But lets say I took that 'self' and sort of channel that nature of consciousness, very receptive, but... as part of a larger system of states of consciousness. Some part of self being immovable and centered. Some part being grounded. Some part asserting into the space of another. And some part being in that very affected state. Like, making the easily affected self into something of an appendage, and extending that out to someone. Even exaggerating the egoless sensitivity of that part of self.
Side note:
A-ha! Now we're getting to the center of things. I've mentioned elsewhere on this forum about an entity or something which I call "The Chameleon" for various reasons (might be an entity or implanted suggestion or both, not 100% sure which). What it's been doing to me is trying to steer my attention and thoughts off certain things. For example if I notice some subject about esoteric things and start thinking about that subject, very quickly I feel how my thought and memory of it fades away unnaturally and is gone in seconds. There's now way of remembering what I just figured out. This happened all the time when I read your above quote; I forgot it's content as I was reading it several times. So what you're writing there is probably close to the center of what The Chameleon doesn't want me to know/figure out/understand. :) Thank you! Now I must know more!

Questions:
- How do you choose the parts of consciousness / lightbody for the job?
- Do you visualize in your minds eye how you modify/extend the "physical form" of the consciousness / lightbody / energy / something when originally creating that appendage?

I guess the answer to the first question is that if you learn to know yourself well enough, you just know which part to choose for the job?

EDIT:
Wait... Can you modify other person's mind/lightbody/something so that it extends and combines with yours for as long as you want? (years even) Just trying to figure out what The Chameleon could really be.

Kath wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:08 pm I dunno if I'm making much sense with how I'm describing things. But basically reaching out with a hand which conforms to the object you're reaching for.
Makes sense to me.

Kath wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:08 pm I think that often, empathy, or telepathy, can "feel" like intuition.
Although for the sake of scientific understanding and growth of knowledge, I try to keep a sharp focus on differentiating between what is deductive, inductive, or 'perceived'.
That's my current problem: I don't seem to be able to easily tell the difference between intuition and telepathically received information. But probably as I progress with knowing myself better, I should be able to notice the difference more and more easily.

Kath wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:08 pm Personally I don't notice any decrease in perceptiveness, attentiveness, etc. with caffeine (nor with alcohol for that matter). It could be due to individual differences. I dunno.
I have caffeine hypersensitivity. If I drink coffee, I either get really tired or I first get panic attack and then get really tired. The effects last multiple times longer than for a regular person.

Kath wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:08 pm BUT, on the topic of how energy interacts between people in proximity to each other. I think it's useful to carefully study how crowds function, and how sensitive people react to various things. And even little the details of 'social expectations' in human behavior. For example, really looking at the idea of "personal space" as an energy driven idea, rather than as a purely psychological one. Or the etiquette people use in close spaces, like in an elevator. Or how crowds interact at sports venues, movie theaters, concerts, or church. What are people comfortable with? why? or why not? What is the significance of touch or eye contact, examined as something possibly driven by energetic principals rather than psychological ones. How do social hierarchies form? What types of things 'overload' autists? What are expected social behaviors? why? Why would a wolf attack a deer, but give a badger a wide birth? What are the known details of body language? Like prolonged eye contact, or leaning back... what are the implications if such reactions were driven not by 'human nature' exactly, but instead by energy interactions?

I was once a psych major, so I initially came to study and understand such things through a purely psychological modeling. But it amazes me how many details fall into place if you look at them through the lens of a possible energy interaction model.
I can look at those things from purely psychological perspective, but I have absolutely no idea where to start with thinking them from the energy driven perspective. Never thought of it that way. Any pointers? Can you give a short example of some situation from the energy point of view so I get an idea what you're after here?

Kath wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:08 pm It might be more often thought as holding a tool, but in a sense it's also an extension of self. And it can get a bit blurry to see exactly where your hand ends, and the tool begins.
Hmm, I think I know what you mean.

Kath wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:08 pm I think empathy (or telepathy) is fundamentally receptive. the energy body, anyone's really not just mine, is always inhaling and exhaling energy. So grasping energy outside the self is just taking something which naturally occurs, and honing it in a more deliberate way. Energy which is not 'of you' becomes part of you, and energy which was 'of you' drifts off. It's a flowing system. You're influenced from without, and you influence that which you're in contact with. And energy is very responsive to the input of any consciousness. Usually as an unintended side effect.. but also potentially as an intended effect.
Nice explanation. Sounds like a good model for where to start my experimentations with consciously affecting energy and doing something with it. I have to figure out some simple experiments which would show me if I get this working reliably or not.

Kath wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:08 pm It might be useful to read some on the topic of 'mesmerism' as it was written about before 'hypnotism' replaced it in the modern cultural understanding.
Will do.

Kath wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:08 pm And on top of that is the 3rd possibility, where your subconscious is more open to external input, and you're more open to your subconscious when in such a mental state, so it could be a 3-way party between conscious, subconscious, and stuff external to your consciousness.
I've been under the impression for a long time now that it's the combination of those things, as you describe above. When it's just a flow from subconscious, the imagery just morphs from one thing to the next. When I receive a message, the imagery either stays put as is for a very long time or repeats identically in a short loop until I understand it.

Kath wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:08 pm Perhaps of interest, Edgar Cayce (a psychic from the first half of the 20th century) used a technique where he claimed to access his 'higher self' at the moment when he was in a hypnagogic trance as he was falling asleep. He would have an intermediary ask him questions just as he was dozing off.
I do almost an identical thing:
I ask a question in my mind and concentrate on it. Then I suddenly start falling asleep so that I basically lose my sense of identity/ego/self. Then I quickly seem to snap back up with a clear answer in my mind. Sometimes it's just a clear knowing / context of information. Othertimes it's a memory of a sentence I heard just a few seconds ago, even though I didn't experience hearing that sentence, as I was basically 100% unconscious at the time.
Seeker of truth.
God is the thought of/about something.

User avatar
Amor
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:57 pm

Re: Coincidence?

Post by Amor »

>very quickly I feel how my thought and memory of it fades away

I saw a large wedding group in the front of a local "church" and all the older males had their own black "octopus" sitting on their head, managing their thought processes. The younger members all had a larva-cockroach sitting on the front of the heart - feeding off their life force. Urrk!

Do you have an octopus?

>Can you modify other person's mind/lightbody/something so that it extends and combines with yours for as long as you want?

Usually that requires some implicit permission from the victim. Even then, the rising tide of human consciousness, after a few millennia will free the victim.

Note however, that the human perpetrator is usually the victim of an inner planes entity doing exactly the same.

Karma can be nasty too!

>tell the difference between intuition and telepathically received information.

Intuition is heart-knowledge. It arrives as a clear awareness with no mental unpacking required. If I had to think to understand what I received, it was not intuition.

Most of what passes for intuition is actually emotional instinct.

Men, tending to be mental, take longer than women in developing intuition.

>falling asleep so that I basically lose my sense of identity/ego/self.

Sleep is often used for data transfer between parallel lives.

I recall being half awake in an afternoon nap. I was aware of being on my bed, and at the same time I was in a group of maybe 6 people and I was explaining some technical matter to them. So I was lying on the bed, watching and listening to myself, and I did not understand or even recognise any of the technical terms I was using in the other timeline.

User avatar
Kath
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 419
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:29 am

Re: Coincidence?

Post by Kath »

Amor wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:24 pm >Can you modify other person's mind/lightbody/something so that it extends and combines with yours for as long as you want?

Usually that requires some implicit permission from the victim. Even then, the rising tide of human consciousness, after a few millennia will free the victim.
I'm not really a fan of the emphasis on there being a need for 'permission'. You see the same thing in hypnotism.
I mean ethically, sure, yes.
But as a belief that self determination & thought is inviolable? I think there's a naivety in that.

Now, that's not to say that I think it's a bad belief. I think it's an extremely useful belief. I'm just saying I don't think it's technically true. I think that a person can 'assert' non-permission, and that when they do, it can act like a ward or spell, bringing intent, focus, will, etc. to the issue of outside influence, pushing it away. And that's extremely valid. I just don't think permission is actually innately required. Even if asserting non-permission can be a very effective way to deflect influence. Like the issue of permission or non-permission aren't statically present, but you can assert either, and then it's present (assuming you assert it effectively).

I'm not sure if i worded that very clearly. But I also don't want to be overly repetitive in trying to describe it hehe.

Anyway, if asserting non-permission, "Will" in particular becomes a key focus I think. And I think there's an element of 'contested wills' to it.

I think it's important to regard asserting non-permission as an act of will though, rather than taking it for granted as a statically true idea.

Also, "reaction" is in itself a form of influenced behavior/thought. If there is outside input, and it stimulates a reaction, then at least to some degree, influence has occurred. I think people under-appreciate how this seemingly superficial influence can have somewhat far reaching effects.

Interestingly, the far end of this topic kinda circles back to a conversation in another thread, where i mentioned the idea of being able to laugh at anything.

I think this also kinda touches on the idea of grounding, and the frequently perceived need for it. A less-trained mind (most people, most of the time) can feel a lot like a small rubber raft in a stormy sea of influences. And grounding is kinda like anchoring it to a rock which juts up from the waters, so that it's not so tossed-about. I think it's quite helpful really. Although personally, I would argue that it's equally valid (though somewhat more difficult and time consuming) to just upgrade the rubber raft to a battleship, and then the only difference between still waters and rough seas is that one is slightly more noisy. Or perhaps maybe a different metaphor, to make one's raft "stable" by virtue of the fact that you have your feet planted on it. Which (depending on many factors) could be every bit as stable, possibly even more so, than a rock.
I guess that's just a really long winded way of saying 'centering' can be as potent as 'grounding', potentially even more so (depending on the refinement of self awareness with which you're centering).

Or at least that's my own kinda zen/stoic/bushido perspective.

Intuition is heart-knowledge. It arrives as a clear awareness with no mental unpacking required. If I had to think to understand what I received, it was not intuition.

Most of what passes for intuition is actually emotional instinct.
hmmm, I want to say there's a bit of self-fulfilling logic to those 2 statements when looked at together. hehe

But I get what you mean. I'd draw a much sharper distinction between what you're calling 'heart knowledge' and 'emotional instinct' though. I think I'd rather label 'heart knowledge' as 'higher-self awareness', so that it's a little more clearly differentiated.
Men, tending to be mental, take longer than women in developing intuition.
There's definitely a trend that way.
I am equally happy juggling left or right brain, art or math, logic or emotion, perception or abstraction, thought/feeling, etc.
which could be deemed a kinda androgynous mindset. My own take is that I probably just have a THICCC corpus callosum [cool]

Not to stray off topic too far, but I did notice that a birth control pill I once took seemed to have something of a "psychically activating" side effect. So perhaps there's even a molecular biology angle to consider.
>falling asleep so that I basically lose my sense of identity/ego/self.

Sleep is often used for data transfer between parallel lives.

I recall being half awake in an afternoon nap. I was aware of being on my bed, and at the same time I was in a group of maybe 6 people and I was explaining some technical matter to them. So I was lying on the bed, watching and listening to myself, and I did not understand or even recognise any of the technical terms I was using in the other timeline.
That reminds me of the dream I had which was all in german (I don't speak german). It was set in a different time period.

Do you have broader or more detailed ideas on sleep being used as a conduit for information between lives? I'd be curious :)

User avatar
Kath
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 419
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:29 am

Re: Coincidence?

Post by Kath »

OneOfFourth wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:36 pm Side note:
A-ha! Now we're getting to the center of things. I've mentioned elsewhere on this forum about an entity or something which I call "The Chameleon" for various reasons (might be an entity or implanted suggestion or both, not 100% sure which). What it's been doing to me is trying to steer my attention and thoughts off certain things. For example if I notice some subject about esoteric things and start thinking about that subject, very quickly I feel how my thought and memory of it fades away unnaturally and is gone in seconds. There's now way of remembering what I just figured out. This happened all the time when I read your above quote; I forgot it's content as I was reading it several times. So what you're writing there is probably close to the center of what The Chameleon doesn't want me to know/figure out/understand. :) Thank you! Now I must know more!
When I had what I'd call 'uncontrolled empathy' (or an excess of it perhaps), I would say that I was very chameleon-like. To a degree, we all wear different hats for different parts of our lives, but I kinda had a different hat for every individual person I interacted with. It would go so far as picking up their accent and mannerisms and such, and not as a conscious decision.

I experienced it as a weird blend of both being able to get along with just about anyone, but at the same time having a lot of social anxiety and feeling a need for periodic time alone.

Being like that kinda represents my whole childhood and adolescence, and some bits of adult life. Now I'm kinda at the opposite end of the spectrum hehe. It's no longer my modus operandi, but I find the ability to kinda 'perceive & reciprocate' a very similar 'vibe' to be easily intuitive.

On the topic of certain things evading the mind's focus... I noticed something in trying to perceive entities which did not want to be perceived. I noticed that while kinda scanning for a suspected entity presence. Basically, I noticed that I'd tend to lose focus when scanning (I'm using 'scanning' as a term for kinda 'feeling things out'). So I started making my scanning efforts more regimented and systematic. Kinda like looking closely at every item in a list, rather than skimming around. That seemed to help. But when doing things that way, I noticed a weird thing... sometimes while scanning in this more disciplined way, there still would be spots where I'd just kinda gloss over and skim, even though I was trying very purposefully not to do that. This raised a slight suspicion for me, so I tried looking/feeling very intently on any such spots. In every case, I found that doing so would like 'break through a haze', and find something.

If you've ever read Douglas Adams' Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe, there's an idea he has in one of the later books called an "SEP field". I'll quote him here:

"An S.E.P. can run almost indefinitely on a torch or a 9 volt battery, and is able to do so because it utilises a person's natural tendency to ignore things they don't easily accept, like, for example, aliens at a cricket match. Any object around which an S.E.P. is applied will cease to be noticed, because any problems one may have understanding it (and therefore accepting its existence) become Somebody Else's Problem. An object becomes not so much invisible as unnoticed.

A perfect example of this would be a ship covered in an SEP field at a cricket match. A starship taking the appearance of a large pink elephant is ideal because you can see it, yet it is so inconceivable, your mind can't accept it. Therefore it can't exist, thus ignoring it comes naturally.

An S.E.P. can work in much the same way in dangerous or uninhabitable environments. Any problem which may present itself to a person inside an S.E.P. (such as not being able to breathe, due to a lack of atmosphere) will become Somebody Else's Problem.

An S.E.P. can be seen if caught by surprise, or out of the corner of one's eye."


Now he was writing comedic science fiction. But the basic idea seems to be fairly close to what I'm describing. Sort of looking for something which the mind seems to want to gloss over, and then focusing right there, intently. Kinda drilling through the protective layer of "these aren't the droids you're looking for", and then "pop" you break through that, and voila! You can see it actually IS the droids you're looking for. [lol]

It's not a leap at all, I think, for something similar to apply to thoughts and ideas. Although 'usually' I think such an avoidance of thoughts or ideas would describe an internal issue, which makes you want to avoid it ...I think the idea that such an effect could be implanted from something external is something which also happens. Such a block can also be crafted with hypnosis.

(or maybe I just wrote in a very dry manner and was extra boring to read there :P haha)
Questions:
- How do you choose the parts of consciousness / lightbody for the job?
I dunno, reflex. "That looks like a square hole, so i need a square peg probably"
Also, I craft all new parts of consciousness / lightbody, for case specific purposes.
- Do you visualize in your minds eye how you modify/extend the "physical form" of the consciousness / lightbody / energy / something when originally creating that appendage?
Sometimes. More often early on in my practices.
Mostly these days I don't even go so far as to be explicit with visualization like that. Just kinda regard the lightbody almost like a liquid which can harden or apply force in any form or direction, in any manner. And further, that the boundary between individual self as a lightbody, and my 'setting' or surroundings is not completely distinct, so instead of needing to fashion a wrench to loosen a nut, perhaps just extend self/will into the nut and spin.
I guess the answer to the first question is that if you learn to know yourself well enough, you just know which part to choose for the job?
probably some truth to that.
I never did the "trained in XYZ" route though. Always took a 'tinkering' kind of approach.
EDIT:
Wait... Can you modify other person's mind/lightbody/something so that it extends and combines with yours for as long as you want? (years even) Just trying to figure out what The Chameleon could really be.
potentially.
I wouldn't want to continuously focus on something like that for years though [eek]
but you could kinda leave behind a lasting effect. Call it a construct, call it a spell, call it programing, whatever.

I think "post-hypnotic suggestion" is a very similar idea to what you're talking about.
Interestingly, with post-hypnotic suggestion, it works better if there's some form of "automated reinforcement". So that the effect doesn't fade with time. In post hypnotic suggestion, it might be as simple as:
"every time you encounter (insert some common day to day stimulus) you are reminded of XYZ"
It can get much more intricate than that though.
There's a type of hypnotic suggestion which is sometimes referred to as a "curse" (in the hypnosis scene lingo, unrelated to the occult use of the term 'curse'), since it's intended to have a snowballing effect over time, rather than fading. Arguably there are plenty of 'positive change' hypnosis ideas which use exactly the same principals, but don't use the term 'curse' hehe. Like when trying to use hypnosis to quit smoking or something.

In a kinda similar vein, a particularly effective form of occult curse, is to set up something which emphasizes a negative trait in the target which is already present in them. Kinda using a Judo-like sensibility of using an opponents' momentum against them.
Um, it goes without saying that this is a pretty nasty thing to do to another conscious being though. I'm just trying to be thorough on the subject matter, not inspire terrible ideas [thumbup]

Makes sense to me.
oh good. the part of my brain which encodes ideas into words is not very robust :P I kinda try to work around it by having a broad vocabulary, and leaning on any cultural references I can think of hehe. Sometimes people think i'm trying to sound snooty with big words, but really I'm struggling with transcribing my ideas into words which actually work (sorta) ;)

It gets really noticeable if I'm sleep deprived or a bit drunk. I may still be able to play a game or do math or rotate a tesseract in the mind's eye, but my syntax starts to (unintentionally) sound like Yoda. Definitely my weak area hehe.

That's my current problem: I don't seem to be able to easily tell the difference between intuition and telepathically received information. But probably as I progress with knowing myself better, I should be able to notice the difference more and more easily.
yeah, it's definitely a learning curve. I'm certainly not perfect at it.

hmmm, I think an attitude I call the "just do it!" mental state, helps though (if I may steal Nike's slogan).
Kind of a "I'm going to do this. I am doing this. This is going to happen. There are no 'if', 'and', or 'buts' about it. This is just the way shit is going to go down. There is no negotiation, no doubt, no second guessing. It's just going to be this way."
Which is definitely an exercise in honing 'Will'. And arguably I think Will is the most important of the facets in working magic (a quick wink at any thelemites out there).

Sometimes I've had things where I didn't know how to approach doing something, and I just said "fuck it, I'm doing it anyway" and it just works. Like some part of you knows what to do, it's just in a huge crowd of other parts of you which don't. And you're commanding that part of you to walk up on center stage and get it done.

Interestingly, I have noticed that this basic 'just do it' principal applies in non magical pursuits just as much. Like, you come to a difficult task and you don't know where to begin, or how to go about it, and you just make up your mind that you're going to get it done regardless. In a workplace, often under-trained new employees will kinda stumble in exactly the same way. And it takes exactly the same kind of self-motivated initiative to overcome.

Um, although that's trickier with something like perception. Cuz you don't want to blast the subject matter with Will, then you're asserting, not perceiving. But you can kinda blast your perceptiveness with Will.

In 2008 I was in a hospital for about 6 weeks. And I didn't see the outside world that whole time (my window only looked out on 'sky'). Anyway, when i got out, I noticed that my ability to focus my eyes on distant objects had actually atrophied significantly. I had to exercise my eyes by looking at close objects, then distant objects (with as sharp a focus as I could), back & forth. And I tried to watch cars travel away from me, and deliberately struggle to keep them in very sharp focus as they got further away. Both of which caused eye strain headaches. But over time, it improved. I can't help thinking there's something a bit similar at play when focusing extra-sensory perception as well. That whole 'exercising an atrophied muscle' kind of idea.

I dunno, just throwing ideas at the wall, seeing what sticks here :) I think it's a multifaceted problem. So there's more than one thing to work on to get the hang of it.
I have caffeine hypersensitivity. If I drink coffee, I either get really tired or I first get panic attack and then get really tired. The effects last multiple times longer than for a regular person.
ahhhh, that makes sense. a lot of sense.
I mean, if you're emoting heavily, perceiving others is like trying to listen to someone else while you're talking :P

I can look at those things from purely psychological perspective, but I have absolutely no idea where to start with thinking them from the energy driven perspective. Never thought of it that way. Any pointers? Can you give a short example of some situation from the energy point of view so I get an idea what you're after here?
ummm, well like, in a crowd... if people have kind of 'zones of self' which extend beyond their physical boundary, then it makes sense that a bunch of people standing close together kinda overlap each other and dilute each others' individuality in a way.
Or if you make eye contact with someone, you feel obliged to say hello, or smile, or look away... I can think of psychological reasons for this, but what if there was something more concrete to that impulse?
Why do people get stage fright?
Why do people feel self conscious?
Why do people get social anxiety?
Why do people notice even a tiny touch, like someone brushing against them in a crowded place, or even a cashier's fingertips touching their hand when they make change?
What if all those things were to do with the movement and interaction of energy bodies, rather than due to poorly-defined and largely evidence-free theories of human behavioral psychology?

Does picturing the audience as naked make you just feel less silly in public speaking because of psychology? Or is that kind of a spell where you're creating a frame of reference, where you feel much more isolated and protected (than the audience) by way of clothing? I mean, one could use imagery like that to craft something like a psychic shield.

Or in predator/prey negotiation. 2 creatures meet, and very rapidly it's argued out (nonverbally) which one is going to run away. Sure a lot of that comes down to biology. But... is a 20 pound badger REALLY more dangerous than a 250 pound deer with feet made of clubs and a head covered in daggers? But deers are timid, so they run away. I think that makes them prey animals far more than any physical trait. In beings with more complex consciousness, such a negotiation becomes much more complex. Since individuals may not display a species-wide reaction to situations. If a person stands up to a bully, that may often deter them. But what if someone just 'intends' to stand up to a bully? Can a bully sense that? Is it just a read on body language? perhaps. But what if there's a louder signal in play? A communication medium which isn't broadly recognized in textbooks, but is universally recognized in practice (often at a pre-conscious level)

What if ALL THE TIME your energy body is interacting with the energy body of every other sentient being around you? What if that's the medium in which "horse whispering" and other such ideas are really functioning?

What if empathy, telepathy, extra sensory perception, human social etiquette, social anxiety, predator-prey dynamics, animal handling, crowd psychology, stage fright, touching, eye contact, human attraction, stage presence, charisma, etc. are all related, or all working on the same radio frequency? A radio frequency as yet un-replicated in the lab. A whole strata of communication, on which mostly humans have no (conscious) idea what they're saying. And what if the substance of that medium is affected by Will, Intent, Focus, etc.? What if the substance of that medium extended even into effects on health, physical ability, etc.? Why do birds flee an earthquake the day before it happens? Sure... they smell the moon reflecting off of swamp gas under a weather balloon (poking a bit of fun at "explain away" styled science). But I mean, we're more clever than birds. Why are we being so dense? Do we actually have to be so dense? Are we so deeply trapped in abstract paradigmatic limitation that we can't perceive & work with that medium?

i'd argue that while people are largely blind to that medium due to their abstract paradigm. If a person actually applies abstract reasoning IN that medium, then we have greater advantage within it than any other creature living on earth.

Granted I'm into self awareness, inter-consciousness effects, energy manipulation, OBE, and entity interaction. Some people are into different things and may have a different perspective. I see all of my areas of interest as having a lot (like, a TON) of overlapping concepts and means.

I have to figure out some simple experiments which would show me if I get this working reliably or not.
best one for easy receptive telepathy or mind reading practice, or i should say the 'easiest', is in real-time text based chat on the internet.
text lacks 'tone' (to a large degree anyway), and it lacks facial expressions or body language, so it kinda forces you to tune in to the other person's intent. There's mutual focus, at the same time. (it waynes very noticeably if the other person is distracted though).

I think it's helpful to have a chat program which notifies you that the other person is typing. In the course of normal conversation. Sometimes someone will say something ambiguous. It could be as simple as them over-using pronouns, so what they said wasn't clear, for example. So if you ask "did you mean this or that?". And you're focused on them, and just waiting on knowing that particular information. Often I find that right before, or right as, they begin typing an answer, before they have sent it, you can perceive which way they meant it. Example:

A: "I have 2 dogs, Spot and Rover. Anyway, he keeps picking on the other one, and I don't know what to do about them"

B: "wait, is Spot picking on Rover? or is Rover picking on Spot?"

> 'A is typing a message' <----right there, at that moment.

Before what they're typing pops up as a sent message, answer your own question! don't think "I don't know", just answer it. pretend you figured it out or something, whatever. Just think "the answer is ____". Like if someone says "when I snap my fingers just blurt out the first word which pops into your head", except the word has to be either Spot or Rover, and the finger snap is > 'A is typing a message'

Quickly I think you'll find that it makes a big difference how long you've been chatting with the person, and how distracted either of you are. Also you'll likely find that "the sensation of the answer" slightly precedes > 'A is typing a message'.

In some cases, if the other person was briefly distracted by going to grab a glass of water or something, maybe they were afk for 60 seconds or something, you can even tell when they get back to the computer, right before they begin typing, because of the sensation of the answer, which will immediately precede their typing a response.

You won't always guess right. But over time you'll start to notice that when you are right, you're right 'a lot' in the same conversation. The distribution of your right/wrong guesses is not random. There's information in the data field of 'when' you are right. What variables pair with being right more often? What variables reduce your ratio of guessing right? And probably most importantly: what subtle sensations accompany your answers when you have a streak of right answers?

I mean you'll want to be on guard against personal validation fallacy (you'll be right half the time just by chance). And you want to avoid overestimating a lucky streak (which is statistically likely now & then). It's best if the other person does not know you're trying to perceive their thoughts. When people know they try to 'think at you' which really is just abstract noise and not genuine impulses of raw thought.

I am reminded of a phone call with my ex fiance. About two years prior to this phone call, I had mentioned his legs were 'scratchy', and he jokingly said he could shave them and just tell everyone he was gonna be a pro swimmer or a body builder. It never came up again, it was a billion miles away from any ongoing frame of reference. Anyway, fast forward about 2 years... on a phone call, he said "guess what?" and I said "i dunno, what?" and he said "no no, guess!", so I said "ok fine" and after a moment's pause I blurted out "oh my god you shaved your legs!" and I didn't say it like a question, I didn't have any uncertainty, I knew I was right, and I was kinda shocked. He didn't say anything at all, so i pressed on "was it like a razor? or did you use that chemical stuff? you gotta be careful with the chemical stuff, it can really do a nasty chemical burn on sensitive areas... what made you decide to do it anyway?" eventually he started talking again. His first words were "Jesus, I thought you were making it all up". And then he kinda had an existential crisis for a while.

When it's just a flow from subconscious, the imagery just morphs from one thing to the next.
that sounds exactly right to me.
When I receive a message, the imagery either stays put as is for a very long time or repeats identically in a short loop until I understand it.
cool :)

I do almost an identical thing:
I ask a question in my mind and concentrate on it. Then I suddenly start falling asleep so that I basically lose my sense of identity/ego/self. Then I quickly seem to snap back up with a clear answer in my mind. Sometimes it's just a clear knowing / context of information. Othertimes it's a memory of a sentence I heard just a few seconds ago, even though I didn't experience hearing that sentence, as I was basically 100% unconscious at the time.
I did some exploring of sleep and near-sleep states for a while. I don't have any data I could write about meaningfully in any depth, but an interesting topic. I'm not a huge fan of new-age authors really, but Edgar Cayce was fairly interesting. Then again my criteria for a great author on esoteric topics is "someone I only disagree with half the time" hehe ;)

I had one interesting experience where I was dreaming, but not technically asleep. Like, when you dream you're in a certain part of the sleep cycle, associated with REM. And normally that's late in the sleep cycle. But through sleep deprivation (not on purpose, in this case), I was effectively dreaming whenever I closed my eyes. Close my eyes, penguins. Open my eyes, hotel room. Close again, penguins. etc. I was awake enough during it to comment on it some.

I've had more success with (what do we call this anyway? getting information from the universe?) anyway, I've had more success with it by kinda just doing somewhat altered states of mind while fully conscious. I'm not particularly good at it though. Although the "just do it!" idea, and the "SNAP! the answer is ____!" ideas maybe touch on this topic somewhat.

Often in conversations if someone says "I can't find my keys" or something, I'll just say "oh you left them on... quick! tell me where you left them!". And almost always people get annoyed with me for being unhelpful. But I'm like "noooo turn off the part of your brain which knows you can't find them, and just answer the question anyway!", which makes them more annoyed usually. hehe. But I'm convinced it would work if they weren't pre-filtering their thoughts so heavily. Even if they said the wrong answer, it would probably trigger the part of their brain which does know where the keys are, to say "no that's wrong, they're on the other thing" which still solves the problem ;)

One could argue that the mind reading thing is really just accessing psychic knowledge rather than reading the other person. Since I've done both. But I think the mind reading thing has a palpable feel to it which is quite different.

Sorry if this is too long! :) I dunno about phpBB, but on the original forum, this would be pushing the character limit of a single post.

Post Reply

Return to “Shamanism”