The dreaded word "warlock"
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The dreaded word "warlock"
Original post: Hans2
Some years ago I began using the word "warlock" instead of "witch" to describe myself. As I am not Wiccan, I have not had too many negative responses to this. I embraced the term for the following reasons:
1. The word "witch" CAN be used by men and women, but "warlock" has definite "male" connotations which I like. I did not adopt it to look "bad" or because I'm into video games.
2. Despite modern witch or neo-Pagan offense taken by some at the word, "warlock" has for centuries simply meant "male witch" in common English usage. Claims that the word originates solely from an old word for "oath breaker" are erroneus.
3. In extant Medieval records, male witches are often called "warlock" by Christian persecutors and judges. If its' meaning is indeed "oathbreaker", then it is reasonable to assume that oaths broken were Christian oaths, and that "warlocks" were perceived as being "traitors" to Christian values and society.
4. Some modern day male witches are reclaiming "warlock" as a positive word of power and ancient imagery, even as the word "witch" was reclaimed in years past and recast in a rightfully positive light.
5. Those who make sweeping statements about the word speak only for their particular coven or tradition, or are expressing a personal belief that they have siezed upon.
6. Several ancient words from Scandinavia and the British Isles are very plausible as being origins for the word "warlock". The Norse "Vargrliker" (one who takes on or assumes a wolf's body) and "vardlokker" (an enchanter, singer of spells or caller of spirits) are two such examples. The Old English word "waerloga" did mean "oath-breaker", but ironically, the Scottish version of the word (which some like to tout as their reason for disliking the word in the first place) did NOT. It meant "cunning man" or male witch.
7. Modern witches have embraced OTHER words from the Medieval witchcraft lexicon like "witch", "sabbat", etc., which for centuries had negative, dark or even Satanic connotations for many. Yet "warlock" is a bad word, to be avoided and disavowed?
I've spoken with some people over the years who expressed great indignantion at the thought of being called "warlock", despite its various possible meanings and origins. Odd that they would probably NOT mind being called "heretic" by the same folks who accused people of being witches and warlocks centuries ago. I suspect that many CHOOSE to abhor the word, not because of some intrinsic negative meaning that is culturally relevant in a living way, but because a book or friend or teacher gave them one definition of the word only. Embracing that definition signifies that one is part of a group or shares in a system of belief perhaps.
We are free to call ourselves what we like of course, but is it not silly to dismiss "warlock" outright, especially if we do so as a result of adopting a group mindset which frees us from the task of investigating, thinking, and weighing the evidence for ourselves?
Hans
As a humorous aside: if I told you that the Latin word "nova" , meaning "new", and related words like "novelty" had bad meanings, would you not use them? Some time ago a car maker came out with a vehicle that they called the "Nova". It didn't sell well in Spain, as "no va" in Spanish means "doesn't go". Which definition is correct? The Latin one? The Spanish one? ( Or the Anglo Saxon one? The Norse one? The Gaelic one....?)
Some years ago I began using the word "warlock" instead of "witch" to describe myself. As I am not Wiccan, I have not had too many negative responses to this. I embraced the term for the following reasons:
1. The word "witch" CAN be used by men and women, but "warlock" has definite "male" connotations which I like. I did not adopt it to look "bad" or because I'm into video games.
2. Despite modern witch or neo-Pagan offense taken by some at the word, "warlock" has for centuries simply meant "male witch" in common English usage. Claims that the word originates solely from an old word for "oath breaker" are erroneus.
3. In extant Medieval records, male witches are often called "warlock" by Christian persecutors and judges. If its' meaning is indeed "oathbreaker", then it is reasonable to assume that oaths broken were Christian oaths, and that "warlocks" were perceived as being "traitors" to Christian values and society.
4. Some modern day male witches are reclaiming "warlock" as a positive word of power and ancient imagery, even as the word "witch" was reclaimed in years past and recast in a rightfully positive light.
5. Those who make sweeping statements about the word speak only for their particular coven or tradition, or are expressing a personal belief that they have siezed upon.
6. Several ancient words from Scandinavia and the British Isles are very plausible as being origins for the word "warlock". The Norse "Vargrliker" (one who takes on or assumes a wolf's body) and "vardlokker" (an enchanter, singer of spells or caller of spirits) are two such examples. The Old English word "waerloga" did mean "oath-breaker", but ironically, the Scottish version of the word (which some like to tout as their reason for disliking the word in the first place) did NOT. It meant "cunning man" or male witch.
7. Modern witches have embraced OTHER words from the Medieval witchcraft lexicon like "witch", "sabbat", etc., which for centuries had negative, dark or even Satanic connotations for many. Yet "warlock" is a bad word, to be avoided and disavowed?
I've spoken with some people over the years who expressed great indignantion at the thought of being called "warlock", despite its various possible meanings and origins. Odd that they would probably NOT mind being called "heretic" by the same folks who accused people of being witches and warlocks centuries ago. I suspect that many CHOOSE to abhor the word, not because of some intrinsic negative meaning that is culturally relevant in a living way, but because a book or friend or teacher gave them one definition of the word only. Embracing that definition signifies that one is part of a group or shares in a system of belief perhaps.
We are free to call ourselves what we like of course, but is it not silly to dismiss "warlock" outright, especially if we do so as a result of adopting a group mindset which frees us from the task of investigating, thinking, and weighing the evidence for ourselves?
Hans
As a humorous aside: if I told you that the Latin word "nova" , meaning "new", and related words like "novelty" had bad meanings, would you not use them? Some time ago a car maker came out with a vehicle that they called the "Nova". It didn't sell well in Spain, as "no va" in Spanish means "doesn't go". Which definition is correct? The Latin one? The Spanish one? ( Or the Anglo Saxon one? The Norse one? The Gaelic one....?)
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The dreaded word "warlock"
Original post: Azakel
I'll I can say is that is some one wants to use the word Warlock for themselves let them. Others use the word Witch and when that word was first used it was a nice word and meant things that people today don't use it for. So not time some Witch tell you you can use the word because it meant something tell them that they can't use the word Witch because it use to mean some other then what there using it for.
I'll I can say is that is some one wants to use the word Warlock for themselves let them. Others use the word Witch and when that word was first used it was a nice word and meant things that people today don't use it for. So not time some Witch tell you you can use the word because it meant something tell them that they can't use the word Witch because it use to mean some other then what there using it for.
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The dreaded word "warlock"
Original post: Master 27
Hans, I totally agree with you!
While I prefer witch over warlock, it still pisses me off when someone asks what it means and the answer is: "Ohmigoddess!! That means 'oath-breaker'... you shouldn't use that word to describe yourself!! BAD BAD BAD!!"
In my opinion, "witch" and "warlock" are pretty much on the same level of having negative (Christian) definitions attached to them, if you ask somebody who's not into the occult.
-Ater
PS: "Nova" means "new" in my language (Serbo-Croatian) too.
Hans, I totally agree with you!
While I prefer witch over warlock, it still pisses me off when someone asks what it means and the answer is: "Ohmigoddess!! That means 'oath-breaker'... you shouldn't use that word to describe yourself!! BAD BAD BAD!!"
In my opinion, "witch" and "warlock" are pretty much on the same level of having negative (Christian) definitions attached to them, if you ask somebody who's not into the occult.
-Ater
PS: "Nova" means "new" in my language (Serbo-Croatian) too.
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Re: The dreaded word
Totally agree with you guys. You would of thought people would of at least watched the covent and the craft. Its pretty much the same premise in movies but one is a group of warlocks(men) the other witches(women). Its just interesting that simple labels create a stereotype.
Re: The dreaded word
But we're not talking stereotypes - we're talking about definitions.
When my wings get tired I grab my broom.
Re: The dreaded word
Which automatically means the stereotype is a correct construct?Blackwrath1984 wrote:Totally agree with you guys. You would of thought people would of at least watched the covent and the craft. Its pretty much the same premise in movies but one is a group of warlocks(men) the other witches(women). Its just interesting that simple labels create a stereotype.
bye bye
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Re: The dreaded word
Are these films particularly instructive? why would you consider them to be so important?Blackwrath1984 wrote:Totally agree with you guys. You would of thought people would of at least watched the covent and the craft. Its pretty much the same premise in movies but one is a group of warlocks(men) the other witches(women). Its just interesting that simple labels create a stereotype.
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Re: The dreaded word
I would have thought you to be above the use of sophistry. Consider reading Plato's "Gorgias."Ramscha wrote:Which automatically means the stereotype is a correct construct?Blackwrath1984 wrote:Totally agree with you guys. You would of thought people would of at least watched the covent and the craft. Its pretty much the same premise in movies but one is a group of warlocks(men) the other witches(women). Its just interesting that simple labels create a stereotype.
Re: The dreaded word
It was meant as a developing question.manonthepath wrote:I would have thought you to be above the use of sophistry. Consider reading Plato's "Gorgias."Ramscha wrote:Which automatically means the stereotype is a correct construct?Blackwrath1984 wrote:Totally agree with you guys. You would of thought people would of at least watched the covent and the craft. Its pretty much the same premise in movies but one is a group of warlocks(men) the other witches(women). Its just interesting that simple labels create a stereotype.
bye bye
Re: The dreaded word
Whether we like the connotations or not - in modern language usage the word Warlock has become synonymous with Oathbreaker.
I asked a male witch one if he was a Warlock and he was ready to spit venom. He was not an Oathbreaker.
People can try to reclaim words all they want. If you don't like the connotations you're still going to be stuck with other people thinking them.
I asked a male witch one if he was a Warlock and he was ready to spit venom. He was not an Oathbreaker.
People can try to reclaim words all they want. If you don't like the connotations you're still going to be stuck with other people thinking them.
When my wings get tired I grab my broom.
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Re: The dreaded word
Which automatically means the stereotype is a correct construct?[/quote]
I would have thought you to be above the use of sophistry. Consider reading Plato's "Gorgias."[/quote]
It was meant as a developing question.[/quote]
Just playing around bro.
I would have thought you to be above the use of sophistry. Consider reading Plato's "Gorgias."[/quote]
It was meant as a developing question.[/quote]
Just playing around bro.
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Re: The dreaded word
I'm game for that. Are oath breakers welcome to play?
Re: The dreaded word
Of course. You do realize, though, that the line would be around the corner, tho, right?
When my wings get tired I grab my broom.