Non- Wiccan Witchcraft

[raze111]

I've been flipping through " mastering witchcraft guide to witches, warlocks and covens" by paul hudson.

I'm finding a lot useful some stuff seems similar to Wicca although as it was recommended the book is about traditional non-Wicca witchcraft which is somewhat clear. I can be hard to sift through and read sometimes.

More so are there any other book recommendations that deal with traditional non-Wicca witchcraft any of you can recommend?. Perhaps a more concise book or ancient or different kinds of witchcraft for example southern/central American or African witchcraft perhaps? I can't seem to find a lot outside of Wiccan witchcraft


What gets me about all kinds of witchcraft is that why is there so much emphasis on constantly having to stock up and spend on many times costly materials (herbs, candles, spices etc..) This can seem hard for many new practitioner to truly get excited about beyond and basic and practical use of regular candle , herb, and crystal magick.Why are these presented as almost more important than other more immediate tools for projecting ones energy for various purposes? I have nothing against these things I'm open to doing them.. but just wondering since sometimes it feels as if one can take anything that does not have a label and make it seem to work. This underestimates many things recommended in witchcraft/wicca. However I understand the general purpose of them in for ritual and magick and how they have been traditionally accepted for this purpose for good reason but its just confusing at times.




.

[RoseRed]

You won't find a whole lot on Trad Craft. They're a secretive lot. And it doesn't require ceremonial tools except maybe a cauldron (or a cooking pot- something you can light a fire inside of) and a broom.

There are a lot of Trad Blogs out there but if you decide to read them - do not forget that they don't share all.

A very popular one to with is Sarah Lawless. http://sarahannelawless.com/blog/

She links to a lot of her friends blogs and has a lot of info. If you're looking for Trad info - this is a decent place to start.

[raze111]

I see. However there seems to be a small number of books like the one I mentioned. Thanks for the link.

Would anyone happen to know if a book in Rosemary's Baby called Witchcraft by Shella ...something (the one with the read cover) supposedly from the film actually exists? I know its a movie and what not but I'm just curious to know because I haven't been able to find the answer online.

[manonthepath]

Go to a few used book stores. You're sure to find a few things. There are many rewarding non Wiccan paths. You're path will be revealed as you go along. On the subject of expenses involved. You need to remember that if you want to dance, you have to pay the band. If you want to do magick, you have to equip yourself. As a martial arts teacher, I'm often approached by would be students, who tell me: "I want to learn martial arts, but don't have much money." My response is to tell them that when the desire is strong enough one finds the money. when the desire becomes pure, spending the money becomes a pleasure. Perhaps you need to consider how badly you want to get into this?

[Lord Ferocia]

Although the system I use, the Agnaw uses very little tools, I understand why other systems do so. The idea behind many of the tools and paraphernalia, is two fold.

Firstly, by going through a process to create, or procure these items, it enhances their importance to you, it empowers them within your mind. The key here to remember is that no object is powerful in and of itself, it is the mysterious hidden aspects of the mind that hold the power. As it is said "by names and images are all powers awakened, and reawakened."

Second, it is when we are using these tools, that the powers represented are brought to mind, and we are then constantly reminded of what forces we are using, and the subtle meanings and intents behind them. The whole system is a sort of hypnotic induction, in which these items are suggestive of that which we seek to evoke. There are however other ways of accomplishing this without all the various trappings.

Lord Ferocia

[RoseRed]

Firstly, by going through a process to create, or procure these items, it enhances their importance to you, it empowers them within your mind.

The key here to remember is that no object is powerful in and of itself, it is the mysterious hidden aspects of the mind that hold the power.

I agree with this except for the underlined part. While it's true that most objects do not have power within themselves - there are objects that do.

[Lord Ferocia]

Firstly, by going through a process to create, or procure these items, it enhances their importance to you, it empowers them within your mind.

The key here to remember is that no object is powerful in and of itself, it is the mysterious hidden aspects of the mind that hold the power.

I agree with this except for the underlined part. While it's true that most objects do not have power within themselves - there are objects that do.

Hello RoseRed,

The point I was making was that ALL things exist within the mind. Ultimately everything is a sense experience reconstructed within our mind, and in the end, what evokes a power is within the mind. It is true that "things" in and of themselves hold no power (magically) until it is perceived and the intent is there. Although I realize many see how magic works differently than myself, it is my opinion that there are no actual "forces" in some objective sense at play. The "charging" of an item etc., is not the use of some literal force that throbs within a stick, but the image and inner contacts of the higher aspects of the mind, that bring about the desired changes. In other words, the forces are of a higher order, and the tools are simply the symbol of the ideas we are using. Objects MAY however seem to hold power, and even transfer over to a new holder, and yet this is not because of some power actually within the item, but rather something that is connected in a higher manner.

Lord Ferocia

[manonthepath]

There are no "Forces," huh? It must be nice to know all there is to know.

[Lord Ferocia]

There are no "Forces," huh? It must be nice to know all there is to know.

Manonthepath,

Of course your taking what I said out of context.

...there are no actual "forces" in some objective sense at play.

In other words, there is not some "magical force" at work within a charged object, the "magic" as it were is completed at a higher point beyond the level of mundane "forces".

LF

[Urscumug]

Hello, you might have a look at the Encyclopedia of Natural Magic by John M. Greer.
It is basically plain sorcery with natural and often common paraphernalia, use of correspondences and basic recipes, all of this without any kind of religious or mythological dogma. I found it very interesting even though I never personally practised this kind of magic.

[Lord Ferocia]

Hello, you might have a look at the Encyclopedia of Natural Magic by John M. Greer.
It is basically plain sorcery with natural and often common paraphernalia, use of correspondences and basic recipes, all of this without any kind of religious or mythological dogma. I found it very interesting even though I never personally practised this kind of magic.

Hello Urscumug,

Well, of course there are many theories regarding magic, and how it works. it isn't a proven science by any stretch of the imagination. This is of course what I believe. So take what I say how you will. However, I feel it is pretty obvious that it is our minds that are connected to the higher aspects of reality, and it is this subtle connection that gives anything its "power". Does this little fact change the result etc? Not really. One can imagine gnomes inside a car making it run, and it will still run of course as long as you operate the car properly.

I am here to provide the viewpoint from the Agnaw, which is the system and it's own theories. It is not a law one has to follow, but I feel it has great value. Natural magic, has some aspects that are more grounded in reality. For example the affects of crystal upon specific fields. Metals for example, and how they may disrupt various electromagnetic fields. All these are perfectly acceptable, and yet what I mean is these are quite different than say "the force of Mars" being held within piece of parchment.

LF

[RoseRed]

I've had this discussion multiple times before and I have no desire to regurgitate it at the moment.

Nothing exists until your mind recognizes it. I 'get' the concept behind it I just don't agree. The computer that you're typing on exists whether I know about it or not.

[autodydact]

If, as is asserted, there is no inherent power in ones magickal tools, it raises certain questions. Why, if they have no power can other people perceive their energy? Several people who have come into contact with my athame who have no magickal inclinations and generally don't know about mine, have commented on it standing out. Inside of my room I have lots of curious objects, so the fact that I have an ornamental dagger should come as no surprise... But people still seem to take an odd amount of notice of it, including a girl who walked over to my desk, picked it up and immediately replaced it saying: I shouldn't have touched that should I?

I of course reassured her that it was just an ornament and we laughed it off. But I found it very curious...

[RoseRed]

Dude, you should seriously consider some hiding or invisibility spells.

[Lord Ferocia]

If, as is asserted, there is no inherent power in ones magickal tools, it raises certain questions. Why, if they have no power can other people perceive their energy? Several people who have come into contact with my athame who have no magickal inclinations and generally don't know about mine, have commented on it standing out. Inside of my room I have lots of curious objects, so the fact that I have an ornamental dagger should come as no surprise... But people still seem to take an odd amount of notice of it, including a girl who walked over to my desk, picked it up and immediately replaced it saying: I shouldn't have touched that should I?

I of course reassured her that it was just an ornament and we laughed it off. But I found it very curious...

There is the idea, and I am careful here to not step on any toes, that all is connected at a higher point. In other words, there is belief in "one mind", or higher consciousness that unites us all. It is there, that these experiences link up, and perceptions are shared. They are "illusions" painted by the mind, wither through visuals or intuitive impressions, but not in the actual "out there" world. In either case, it is actually a minute point, and the results are the same. I am simply pointing it out, because I feel if one understands the mechanics behind this, one can also understand many other things inherent in magic, and how it operates. This improves ones ability.

LF

[autodydact]

Dude, you should seriously consider some hiding or invisibility spells.

Hmmm you're probably right.

[RoseRed]

I simply cannot agree that there is no inherent power in objects - at least in a lot of them. I'm an animist. I believe that damn near everything has a soul or spirit.

For example - take a blasting rod. It's a wand from a tree. The spirit of the tree still resides within it if it's properly created.

Take a dagger or a knife. They're made from metal. Metal ore is an earth element. I happen to have an affinity with certain types of metals and can say, from my own experience, that they do have their own spirit. They're also made from glass or bone - earth or animal spirits.

Hell, even plastic comes from either oil or plants. They both have their own spirits. The problem with plastic is that it's sooooooo different from it's base materials that the spirits of the material can become lost in the manufacturing process. I believe that a person would need to be very 'in tune' with those specific spirits to be able to pick up on them.

I am in no way denying that used objects can contain the signatures and even memories of the places they have been and their previous owners. That just adds to what's already there to begin with.

[Lord Ferocia]

I simply cannot agree that there is no inherent power in objects - at least in a lot of them. I'm an animist. I believe that damn near everything has a soul or spirit.

Of course you're free to think what you wish. However, you none the less will lose the argument that everything you experience is in fact subjective. You are trapped within your subjective world, as everything you experience is received via your five senses.

For example - take a blasting rod. It's a wand from a tree. The spirit of the tree still resides within it if it's properly created.

Again, the tree, along with this so called "spirit" is experienced within your mind. In addition, everything is of the same substance, and the part of a greater whole. It is all connected. This is classic magical thought and philosophy. What you perceive as a things "spirit" or vital force, is an impression or reconstructed illusion within the mind, as most phenomena are. No one truly knows what is "out there" beyond the senses. For example, according to science, an apple is not "truly" red. It appears red to us, because the red spectrum of light is reflected off the apple, and we see this color. Basically by realizing this, we can say the apple is every color BUT red.

Take a dagger or a knife. They're made from metal. Metal ore is an earth element. I happen to have an affinity with certain types of metals and can say, from my own experience, that they do have their own spirit. They're also made from glass or bone - earth or animal spirits.

Exactly, from your own "experience" which is highly personal and based upon one's belief and expectations (especially in subtle matters such as magic and forces etc). All these materials are still subject to the impressions of your mind. It is subjective impressions that you project upon the conditions and items, and this is how in effect evocation works. The beings evoked are not truly "there" (physically) as they are manifested into "physical appearance". Donald Kraig wrote a great explanation about this in his famous book.

Hell, even plastic comes from either oil or plants. They both have their own spirits. The problem with plastic is that it's sooooooo different from it's base materials that the spirits of the material can become lost in the manufacturing process. I believe that a person would need to be very 'in tune' with those specific spirits to be able to pick up on them.

We can STILL use these impressions, and understand how magic works by seeing things the way you are. One can imagine all sorts of things, and it still works, it doesn't mean this is what is actually occurring however.

I am in no way denying that used objects can contain the signatures and even memories of the places they have been and their previous owners. That just adds to what's already there to begin with.

True, and what I am saying does not invalidate the idea of objects "possessing power" etc., of course, once again, these are impressions and images within the mind, and we "see" them as "real" and "out there", when in fact this is created by the mind, and it's higher connection to that All. Imagine if you will that everything you see is an aspect of yourself (take for example the idea of a dream world), one can easily see there are no real divisions, and all is influenced by the observer itself. It would be silly for a dreamer to point to any "object" within their dream and try to argue it had objective reality. Magic postulates the idea of duality being an illusion.

LF

[RoseRed]

So, it's all in my head, huh?

I wasn't aware I was arguing with you. I was having a conversation. And yes, this has been my experience and that of many others. You're free to believe whatever you like. Who knows? We could both be wrong - or right as the case may be.

[Lord Ferocia]

So, it's all in my head, huh?

I wasn't aware I was arguing with you. I was having a conversation. And yes, this has been my experience and that of many others. You're free to believe whatever you like. Who knows? We could both be wrong - or right as the case may be.

I wasn't arguing either. I was explaining my points, as were you. I am not suggesting "everything is in your head" (by definition), my point is the "external phenomena" is influenced by our minds. In other words, the mind can give us the impression that objective forces are present within an item, that we are staring at a demon, or witnessing all sorts of paranormal events. Not ALL of these are manifested physically. Most of the phenomena relating to "charged" items, and discarnate entities, (at least a great deal of them) are formulated within the mind. There are physical phenomena, and this is "real" in regards to things flying off walls, or otherwise resulting in physical effects, but this is different than the stated magical phenomena we are discussing.


LF

[RoseRed]

Fair enough...

... and you do have a good point. I think this is where experience comes in. It's very easy for someone new to these Paths to misinterpret what they're sensing. I'm not saying it doesn't happen with those that have been doing this for a while - because it does at times.

[manonthepath]

People believe what they want generally. My experience has taught me that places and items can become "charged" with energy that may come from a variety of sources, experiences, correspondences or whatever. I have a combat knife and tomahawk with which I've harvested more people than I care to tell (all done nice and legally in the service of one country or another). These tools oscillate at a frequency correspondent to mine and others. These energetic oscillations can be interpreted through passive attention and intuition and then understood through meditation. With experience and time meditation is no longer needed to interpret the oscillations. I've had the same experiences with a large number of other items, places, animals and people. Just because you've not yet encountered or felt this experience does not mean that such is not possible. It only means that it is outside of your experience.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
- Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio

[Lord Ferocia]

People believe what they want generally. My experience has taught me that places and items can become "charged" with energy that may come from a variety of sources, experiences, correspondences or whatever. I have a combat knife and tomahawk with which I've harvested more people than I care to tell (all done nice and legally in the service of one country or another). These tools oscillate at a frequency correspondent to mine and others. These energetic oscillations can be interpreted through passive attention and intuition and then understood through meditation. With experience and time meditation is no longer needed to interpret the oscillations. I've had the same experiences with a large number of other items, places, animals and people. Just because you've not yet encountered or felt this experience does not mean that such is not possible. It only means that it is outside of your experience.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
- Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio

People most certainly do believe what they want.

LF

[araj]

Black Magic healing and curing evil spell. We heal and create protections shields against dark curse, voodoo and all kind of witchcraft and dark forces also the conjuring of spirits. Making the universal balance and natural alignment back in life.

[Asurendra]

This is a work that, while not a systematic treatise in itself, will at least give you an idea of some of these practices. The author traveled through northern Italy in the late 1890's talking to all the super-cool old school witches and healers he could find. It is amazing how the Classical paganism survived as a living tradition (if not as grandly) for so long.

http://www.amazon.com/Etruscan-Occult-R ... t+remedies