Necromancy Danger

[Magician2685]

I was shopping for some incense and libations at a witchcraft shop. I then started speaking with a witch about necromancy. She looked and seemed like she had a lifetime of experience. She told me that every necromantic magician she has known has died of a brain tumor. I asked her why certain people who practice necromancy start to look old and she told me that they don't get a chance to grow old but there are a lot of 'old' authors who write necromantic grimoires. Is there any truth to this?

[RoseRed]

True necromancy harnesses so much power that it can burn a person out from the inside.

[Ramscha]

Most practitioners reduce necromancy to a bunch of bones and the forces of dekay and haunting soules. It is true that those are part of the landscape of "death", but there is more to it then just flies on a corpse. What about the other parts of the underworld? The river of oblivion, the river of rebirth, Helas dishes of endless hunger, etc.

True, the forces you are working with will form the practitioner himself as well as he forms his reality. Calling upon dekay will result in dekay.
But as I said, death is not just reduced to dekay.

Strictly spoken any practice involving the dead could be named necromancy, that includes every ritus of honoring the dead, any celebration and ritus regarding that topic.

every necromantic magician she has known has died of a brain tumor

How many would that be?

Ramscha

[manofsands]

Necromancy is 'Death Magick'. It is an archetype focus. Death focus. Its bound to have a residual effect. The only way to alter this is to alter your view of Death.
...hmmm,... and maybe of ageing.

[RoseRed]

It's really not an archetype 'focus'. It's a specific type of magic that very few are capable of doing.

[Urscumug]

RoseRed, are you kind to suggest some relevant resources on necromancy?

[RoseRed]

If I had any - I would.

Whatever limited knowledge I have about the deeper or more dangerous aspects of Necromancy (and I'm not talking about chatting with the spirits of dead people) has come from conversations with experienced practitioners, someone that was present at the time that workings were done or with those that have helped to clean up the mess afterwards.

It's not something that I choose to work with for myself. I've already spent much time in the Land of the Dead. I'd rather spend my time here living. I've been told that I would be a 'natural' at it but it's not something I want to explore. I've seen what happens to those that walk this Path.

Recently, I had a wonderfully in-depth conversation with another witch. We were discussing the things that don't get written down and the values and drawbacks of oral traditions. There are a lot of things in the occult world that really aren't for the masses.

[shaded_shadow]

I've seen what happens to those that walk this Path.

Could you please go a little more in depth?

[Urscumug]

If I had any - I would.

Thanks! I did some research and I understand why. According to wikipedia and my occult encyclopedia, Necromancy relates to at least two major areas: communication with the spirit of the dead and kind of goetia/black arts. The specific field of necromancy, I mean working with the dead out of divination/communication or working with death, seems pretty narrow. I could find a sample in The Necromantic Ritual Book by Leilah Wendell.

[Asurendra]

I haven't really commented on this but I do want to say one thing: I don't know why someone would work with the dead for divination. I don't think the vast majority of them know anything more dead than they did alive. But, maybe there is some aspect to this I don't understand or am missing.

From what I have understood, the majority of those who are undertaking these practices are using the dead or astral shells as slaves to attempt to attack people to cause sickness, for example.

Perhaps someone can clarify these points. I confess I know less here than other areas.

[Urscumug]

I don't know why someone would work with the dead for divination.

Some are using tarot cards or birds flight, so why not the dead?
You could get knowledge of the dead's past life, or the dead's colleagues, it largely depends on your own conception of the afterlife.

[Ušušur]

I don't think the vast majority of them know anything more dead than they did alive.

This reminds me of a doubt I had for a long time.

Can dead learn and/or increase their knowledge? Can they attain new information, new memories and then use them accordingly? Or the learning process itself is reserved for the living ones only.

[Urscumug]

Can dead learn and/or increase their knowledge? Can they attain new information, new memories and then use them accordingly? Or the learning process itself is reserved for the living ones only.

Depends on your paradigm
I don't think there is a definitive answer on the questions of the afterlife, its reality and its nature.
For instance, AFAIK in the Bible the dead are kind of sleeping until resurrection on judgement day, so if you are in this paradigm, you cannot talk with them and they are completely unaware of what is going on here (this is funny because lots of Catholics I know think the dead care on them).

I tend to see necromancy, in the information model perspective, as a way to tap into some information left behind by the deceased, but this would be a "readonly" information, the psychology and memory of the deceased wouldn't be altered events occurring after his/her death.

[RoseRed]

I believe that the spirits of the dead are able to learn. How else would they be able to get past whatever is holding them here?

Actually, the Witch of Endor in the OT called upon one of those 'sleeping' spirits and pissed it off by bothering it. The spirit gave unpleasant news and left.
Witch of Endor story http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_of_Endor

While communicating with the dead is technically a small part of necromancy there are many ways to communicate with them that don't involve necromantic practices.

Ramscha nailed it. When you work with the Dead, Death and the energies of Decay - it changes and ages you from the inside out. Those that work with the deeper and more hidden aspects may know how to keep some of that at bay. I do not.

[Urscumug]

I believe that the spirits of the dead are able to learn. How else would they be able to get past whatever is holding them here?

Did they actually get past? According to the link you provided "Medieval glosses to the Bible suggested that what the witch actually summoned was not the ghost of Samuel, but a demon taking his shape or an illusion crafted by the witch.[9] Martin Luther, who believed that the dead were unconscious, read that it was "the Devil's ghost", whereas John Calvin, who did believe in the immortal soul, read that "it was not the real Samuel, but a spectre."
Once again, it's a question of paradigm, it should only be coherent.

[Ramscha]

I guess the topic necromancy was discussed quite often.
The book I can recommend the most on this topic is:
http://www.amazon.com/Greek-Roman-Necro ... necromancy

Daniel Odgens "Greek and Roman Necromancy"

[RoseRed]

I don't really agree with Calvin or Luther. Meh.

I only provided the link for those that are unfamiliar with the story.

As far as ghosts being able to move on and get past their past and whatever keeps them here - I think they do.

[Sypheara]

Sorry if this doesnt make too much sense, I am currently quite drunk.

I practice necromancy, and can honestly say that as someone who works with both the Chthonic and Stellar realms, that as long as its done in a balanced manner and you understand the processes behind it there is much reduced risk. It can be done in a balanced way, which is the most important part.

In the west we have a view that working with the dead and death is highly toxic, something that is not seen in other cultures at all, so this must be remembered when approaching the topic. Working malefica, travelling the plane upon which the dark dead seem to travel, and interacting with those particular toxic and dangerous spirits will as describe cause the degeneration of the practioner if he does not balance this out and take adequate methods to protect himself. This energy feels like dark, freezing water, and is the one to watch out for. This is often encountered in dream for me, and something i have to watch as its a fabric i unconciously choose to move through at times. The fire is missing from them, only the space remains, a vacuum, that like a black hole just wants to negate.

Conversely, work with the empowering chthonic flame, for me of Lucifer is opposite, it is not a sleepful, quietening, claustrophobic energy but one of ever expanding spiritual fire that can at times be too intense and needs a respite from to instead of being suffocated like the other energy, being consumed by too much energy. This is where the hallowed dead, the empowered dead, seem to emanate from, and they dance like fireflies through the sea of black, red, green and white to interact when called upon.

These are the ones that I have my fetish box for, the ones i feed on a regular weekly basis alongside the Gods and other attending spirits. They are easiest to work with, especially ones of the same spiritual bloodline (i dont practice ancestor worship per se).

Outside of spirit work these energies can be absorbed or channeled etc. The use of this should be obvious for those who are aware of the above implications. It is very, very broad, topic, because of what RoseRed has already described as Necromancy has come to mean any work with the sphere of death rather than just divination by use of the dead. Its important to remember that those of the elevated dead are not simply ghosts. They are more like the concept of saints, and are able to have divinatory powers. Even the dark dead, the ghosts also can.. it seems to be a property of the dark dead that they like to give bad news which can indeed be true.. this ability when it comes to them seems to be more present in those that had such abilities in life, enhanced by their detachment from the body, ability to observe easier in some cases, and being somewhat detached from the 4th dimension of time in a way that is difficult to understand neverless explain.

Hopefully that has helped a bit and wasnt too rambling.

Until tomorrow, time to actual sleep for once.

[RoseRed]

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In the west we have a view that working with the dead and death is highly toxic, something that is not seen in other cultures at all, so this must be remembered when approaching the topic. Working malefica, travelling the plane upon which the dark dead seem to travel, and interacting with those particular toxic and dangerous spirits will as describe cause the degeneration of the practioner if he does not balance this out and take adequate methods to protect himself. 

Your post made perfect sense to me.

And you just nailed the type of practitioners that I've come across. They've worked from a western point of view and instead of maintaining balance - they threw themselves into the currents of Death and Decay. It's no wonder that they've come to show Death and Decay physically as well.