OccultForum.org

Atzmuth wrote:Do you think there is a God or What makes you think there is?

I believe in myself.
Sometimes.

Nope...not this

a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.

But who knows, there might be some force out there. I however, do not believe it is sentient in that it cares for us. It's just there.

ErebusNamtar wrote:a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.

But who knows, there might be some force out there. I however, do not believe it is sentient in that it cares for us. It's just there.

When I look at the complexity of nature, it's hard not to see the Universe as the work of a Designer who is aware of It's creation.

But you have a point, the arguments presented by monotheistic religion are collapsing under the weight of dogma and supersitions.

"We are the substance of the Universe."

Whatever is in the stars is in us, sparked us, fashioned us by design. I like to think we are the essence of God. Whether this is by some obscure osmosis or some all inclusive incarnation, who knows.

I believe in the energy of God and that we can tap into that energy and manipulate it for our good. We can do this subconsciously. For example, wishing that a new lover will enter our lives is a way of using this energy.

What makes me believe this way?
I think it has to do with my true belief in magick as a system. For it to work, it needs some form of energy and that energy must be limitless and powerful, hence the presence of a God-like energy.

this is our lowest half of the equation

so (1?9 => eyes, hear, touch, I am)
((((1?9 = 3.14.. . (need eyes, need ears, need touch, I am, I need, I see, I believe, I saw, need taste, need smells, need dictionary,ill)i will)i think)i just)
this is to fight the harlet in babalon the government tricked me into doing this for years and couldnt back it off.

here is your fruit

Perception creates our version of reality.

If we perceive from a basis of fear we will see a frightening reality.

If we perceive from a basis of love reality is seen in its true state.

I do belive in higher powers that could be called gods.

Although if it was possible to prove the existence of god/gods from within this reality it seems to me some kind of important spell would be broken.
A spell that was not meant to be broken until one leaves this reality for good.

Just an uneducated thought.

Spida wrote: There is a Dominance Hierarchy here on Earth. I would extrapolate from, extension to a Universal Hierarchy that can be traced back to the God Source.

Whatever is the source of Creation is God, whatever that may be! Anyways, the work speaks for itself. If you take the time to look, and meditate on it(mostly informally in my case).

Ciao!
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Dominance Heirarchy? What do you mean by this? I get the whole demonic heirarchy with lucifer/ devil/ whatever you want to call him at the top, but what about the other side? I get Arch angels are high up, but is there anything above arch angels? Also are you referring to arch angels here? I can't tell.

My understanding of God aligns with the Kabbalistic model and I think hard materialist atheists are dull.

Spida wrote:

chowderpope wrote:My understanding of God aligns with the Kabbalistic model and I think hard materialist atheists are dull.

IMO, if anyone spends a marginal amount of time meditating on Creation. Then the question should no longer be whether or not there is a God, but instead, what is the nature of this Thing.

It need not be anthropomorphic, but merely a Creator God, e.g. an Eternal Catalyst. Which would be more suitable for an Atheist I suppose.

Agreed. I consider myself a hardcore atheist for this. Even if I work with deities, I won't be exactly religious. On top of that we all are gods in potential.

I find heavily ironic that people who are ought to know best still refuse existence of God. Well, first we must make distinction between a God and the God. There are many gods, take your pick and your afterlife. The God is creator. It is not conscious and does not sit in the clouds as fatherly figure. Of course, white fatherly figure, why he would ever wish to be black or appear as a women? Don't be ridiculous!

But please tell me this, if you work with Gods or dieties, how can you still deny a presence of this primal force? Evidence to it can be found everywhere you look. You can even experience God which should not complete unheard in the occult community. You should not be as blind as atheists and see deeper connections which tie together entirety of existence with unexplainable grace. I found especially fascinating all those atheistic satanists who practice their feeble magick, who accept parts of spiritual truths as real, despite on scientific level they are pseudoscience at best and yet, they deny any form of further spirituality.

Old thread, I know, but I'll answer anyway.

Calicifer wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:48 am I find heavily ironic that people who are ought to know best still refuse existence of God. Well, first we must make distinction between a God and the God. There are many gods, take your pick and your afterlife. The God is creator. It is not conscious and does not sit in the clouds as fatherly figure. Of course, white fatherly figure, why he would ever wish to be black or appear as a women? Don't be ridiculous!

But please tell me this, if you work with Gods or dieties, how can you still deny a presence of this primal force? Evidence to it can be found everywhere you look. You can even experience God which should not complete unheard in the occult community. You should not be as blind as atheists and see deeper connections which tie together entirety of existence with unexplainable grace. I found especially fascinating all those atheistic satanists who practice their feeble magick, who accept parts of spiritual truths as real, despite on scientific level they are pseudoscience at best and yet, they deny any form of further spirituality.

I used to be very close to what you described here. Atheist, but not satanist. I never bowed to any deity/god/whatever in any way. The only things I've ever valued are: truth, knowledge and good morale. And I intend to stay on that path.

Then a bit over a year ago quite a few radical things happened and my scientific mind couldn't rule out the magick/etereal/occult anymore. I don't call my self believer in the traditional sense, but more of an explorer of truth. I believe most occultists belong to this group, since they search for knowledge.

What really hit home in your description above was that for the first couple of decades of my life I had seen quite a few dreams which came true. And I don't mean that I had to interpret those dreams and afterwards came to the conclusion that "the dream must have meant this moment." No. The dreams happened 100% as I saw them. Like there had been a video camera in my eyes and the video was sent back in time to my dreams without any modifications. All people, items, lighting, places, thing people say and in which order happened 100% like in those dreams. The last ones of these kind of dreams I remember happened about 20 years ago. After that I've noticed I've had a canny way of predicting if something negative happens in a few seconds and what that thing is. I've managed to predict these kinds of things frequently in real life, while watching youtube videos where something very really unexpected happens, while watching TV shows, etc. Doesn't matter where it happens. I think the dream foresight transformed into "realtime" version of it.

I never could explain how and why I saw those dreams and didn't really think much about what it seemed to have transformed into. My scientific mind cling more to the logical explanation of the world and ignored the rest. When last year I eventually was forced to accept that traditional scientific logic can't explain everything, I felt both confused and relieved at the same time. Finally I had an "answer" to the things I couldn't explain. I still couldn't explain them properly, but it was much better to know that there's magick, spirits and who-knows-what which caused the things that fought against my scientific world picture.

Now I don't know what to believe. All I know is that spirits of several sorts seem to be real. I don't know if they are external to human mind or partly/fully stem from psyche of a person. Both views could make sense, but I don't really KNOW yet. I don't know if there are gods or The God and I'm not sure how to verify it either. All I know is that something (spirits? gods? The God? Mages playing tricks on me? Something else entirely?) seems to answer my requests very fast whenever I request something selfless in my life. The request seems to be granted usually latest by the next day or so, or at least a significant step is suddenly taken towards it, regardless of what I do after making the request. It only seems to work for selfless wishes which affect my own life (like requesting peaceful resolution to something I'm in the middle of, etc.). It doesn't seem to work at all for selfish/evil requests or requests for other people, except there seems to be some kind of karma factor going on. Got my self out of quite a few sticky situations that way, when I was completely innocent and I couldn't figure out how to save myself. Some people call it prayer, I call it "wishful thinking" which seems to work way too often to be just a coincidence. These days I know that at least some of those situations were aided by an entity which was most probably responsible for starting the "waking up process" in me, for a purpose I'm starting to understand now (if I'm not mistaken).

But as I mentioned: I don't bow to any entities/gods/demons/etc. I will always stay free without submitting myself to any entity's rule (no worshipping of anykind) and do my best to follow the truth and good morale. If that is not enough for everybody (even for the possible The God), then it's their problem, not mine.

>I don't know what to believe.

A good position, but it needs to be supported by experiment.

After an experience, develop several explanations.

Then develop experiments to test each of the explanations. E.g. if this is true, what are the testable implications?

Perform each experiment several times (when mentally clear) preferably with a suitable friend as observer.

Most of the experiments will be inner plane work

Keep a diary of such experiments

Excellent suggestion.

My current knowledge is a limiting factor, though:
I currently know so little about these things, that it's not easy/possible to make tests. I usually come up with several potential explanations what is going on or what happened. But coming up with way to test it: that's a level above my know-how. That's why I'm on these forums, to slowly but surely build as steady/reliable base knowledge as I can, from which it will be safe and easy to start climbing up later on.

I have already started keeping a journal of sorts, which contains things I've learned so far.

Even if at present you struggle to develop experimental techniques, the process of developing (and recording) alternative explanations will sharpen your observation skills in future experiences.

The key skill in my approach to spiritual science is rising on the planes. Did I mention that to you before?

One of the benefits is being able to measure inner plane energies.

I'll do that.

I need to start learning/experimenting with rising on the planes. You mentioned it in another thread. I have to study it in the near future. Put some proper time to it.

I prefer to attend to humans that are desperate. The rest do not work hard enough.

>Seeker of truth.

Truth is a reification - a quality turned into a thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reification_(fallacy)

Thus a plumbline is true to local gravity. I may be true to a principle. Every trueness is relative to a reference.


Thus, Seeker of Truth, to what do you wish to be true?

> Thus, Seeker of Truth, to what do you wish to be true?

There are many more things I wish not to be true, than true. So basically my intention is to find out what is not true. Then what is left after that is more likely to be true than not.

But one thing which seems to be true is that evil begets evil. Evil is being done to the world with deceit, lies and half-truths. You can't fight that with more deceit and lies. So that's why I'm going to the fundamentals and try to construct some kind of truths from there.


> I prefer to attend to humans that are desperate. The rest do not work hard enough.

This is OK. I'm not desperate anymore as I feel I'm finally making progress on my path. I was couraged some time ago (by the entity I've mentioned before) to not be desperate, since it usually makes one proceed hastily without thinking clearly and can easily lead to dangerous unrepairable situations one regrets later. I was told to work smarter, not harder, which in a long run takes you further than simply forcing your way through to a goal. There is a time and place for desperation, but one should get out of the desperate zone as fast as possible.

I suspect it is possible to look backwards, into an infinity of change, and answer the question, "But if random, how all this sophisticated life?" (A) because infinite opportunity amounts to pretty good odds even when something seems implausible.

If the God classically depicted existed, the Grand Creator, He could have made sentient beings so good and wise their free will chooses only the right, just, merciful and correct path. They have free will even if they choose the morally appropriate.

I think that love is unconditional by itself, apart from the ego complex. All love, if this is true, provides a symbolic consciousness to the universes. Unconditional love embraces all sentient life from the center of infinite space. Omniscience, all information has a conscience. Omnipresent, the heart is at the center of all places, and makes of them the body of God. Omnipotent, for all energy has a symbolic will.

Some advantages to this symbolic God

-Worshiping an acknowledged symbol that constitutes everything isn't very likely to inspire projection of the same magnitude as a God of a Book/Books written by delusional humans.
-Fair motivation results from being in love with a fair totem, especially one as big as God. Hopefully, this unifies peoples.
-Such a symbol could fill the hole in the heart of a born again Christian, or devout Muslim, that has lately been feeling like the Book is Bull.

The human that has achieved the first inner initiation (based on control of physical desires) knows that s/he is more than physical and therefore that Life is more than physical.

The aspect of Life that is more than physical attracts many religious labels - mostly not very useful

I am a Christian, and therefore I believe in a God. The Christian God.
I like tarot card, however, so I am not a very faithful Christian.
Before I became a Christian, I was a theistic Satanist for a period of time. I did not conduct rituals or anything like that but I believe in Satan and I prayed to him. I no longer pray to Satan since I become a Christian, though it is still my desire to see Satan reconciled with his father God.