Why the Judeo-Christian bias on this forum?

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taijitu2
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Why the Judeo-Christian bias on this forum?

Post by taijitu2 »

Why do people here often default to Judeo-Christian explanations, especially whilst answering questions?

For example, "demons" comes from the word "daemon" which means friendly spirit. During Europe's forced conversion to Christianity, the church declared these to be"evil spirits". What they really were was the old Gods, spirits and ghost of Europe's native faith.

Same with "succubi". Beings such as nymphs seem to act very similar to how supposed "succubi" act. Calling a spirit a "succubus" seems to have been the method the new repressive Christian faith slandered the spirits whom Europeans were accustomed to.

Yet some here oh so rebelliously interact with "demons". What makes you believe they are demons at all, instead of the million better explanations? I'm not declaring that malicious spirits don't exist, but perhaps the wise, benevolent spirit who teaches you isn't actually the agent of evil you think he is.

The worse is people who throw their hands in the air declaring the horrors of Christianity while simultaneously conforming to its beliefs. You all take the existence of "Satan" for granted. Why? No such stupid concept exists for billions of people alive on this planet. Ask a Hindu or Shinto if they think "Satan" is tempting them. If you think Christianity is bullocks, why go the "Satanist" root. Half the planet doesn't believe in "Satan". Talking and interacting with spirits is consider neutral, or even a path to higher spiritual development for many paradigms.

This isn't meant to be disparaging for Jews, Christians, Muslims or Satanist. But for those here this Judaeo-Christian mold just seems so persuasive.
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Re: Why the Judeo-Christian bias on this forum?

Post by Desecrated »

Because Christianity is the biggest religion = most people = most people reefer to Christian world view when they mention demons, angels or devils.

Now if you want to discuss Greek magic and/or Aristotelian ethics and philosophy and how they interacted with spirits or the difference between daemon, agathodaemon, cacodemon, daimonic and eudaimonia you kinda have to specify that when you are starting a thread about demons, otherwise people will just assume that you mean it in a Christian way, because that is what most people mean.

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Re: Why the Judeo-Christian bias on this forum?

Post by Desecrated »

taijitu2 wrote: The worse is people who throw their hands in the air declaring the horrors of Christianity while simultaneously conforming to its beliefs. You all take the existence of "Satan" for granted. Why? No such stupid concept exists for billions of people alive on this planet. Ask a Hindu or Shinto if they think "Satan" is tempting them. If you think Christianity is bullocks, why go the "Satanist" root. Half the planet doesn't believe in "Satan". Talking and interacting with spirits is consider neutral, or even a path to higher spiritual development for many paradigms.
There are surprisingly few hindu or shinto that comes to this forum. If somebody starts talking about satan, I'm just going to assume that they are Christian or satanists.

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Re: Why the Judeo-Christian bias on this forum?

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taijitu2 wrote:The worse is people who throw their hands in the air declaring the horrors of Christianity while simultaneously conforming to its beliefs. You all take the existence of "Satan" for granted. Why? No such stupid concept exists for billions of people alive on this planet. Ask a Hindu or Shinto if they think "Satan" is tempting them. If you think Christianity is bullocks, why go the "Satanist" root. Half the planet doesn't believe in "Satan". Talking and interacting with spirits is consider neutral, or even a path to higher spiritual development for many paradigms.

You make an awful lot of assumptions. Where do you get the idea that ''we all take the existence of Satan'' for granted? I for one do not.

There have been christian occultists who made significant contributions to the Western Mystery Tradition. Eliphas Levi, Dion Fortune, Papus, Stanislas de Guaita ect. I think core christianity is a legetimate path that some people here or elsewhere may Will to follow.

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Re: Why the Judeo-Christian bias on this forum?

Post by cyberdemon »

Well you see, it's because we don't have a bias, but we have a population that's more representative of western philosophies. I come from the eastern regions of the plane myself, and a bunch of the members of Occult Forum work with eastern faiths and paradigms of magick. Just ask around.
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Re: Why the Judeo-Christian bias on this forum?

Post by Nahemah »

Atheist here.

We don't restrict who posts here based on belief systems, all we require is civil behaviour and adherence to posting rules.

'Occult' is a term that merely means hidden or esoteric and that includes all faiths and none, as magick is not dependent on religious beliefs, however, beliefs may be attached according to the individual's own take on life.

Neopaganism tends towards the dualistic, as it's modern and Western hemisphere generated and many people can't escape cartesian duality, as they have no way to conceptualise outside of it. All hail the first world education systems, lol.

The Western Mystery Tradition is Abrahamic also, so no getting away from that, but no reason to exclude it either.

Staff are not biased, we are here to attend to members needs and deal with problems and as you can see from two of us who've posted here, so far, we are a mixed bunch.

If you want other topics here, do feel free to start posting them. [thumbup]
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Re: Why the Judeo-Christian bias on this forum?

Post by Haelos »

I use a lot of Christian words in my manner of speech, but I wasn't even raised in the church a little bit. My father raised me Atheist and I discovered God and Satan on my own in my teenage years.

I use the word Satan to describe the embodiment of evil and all evil things, and I use the word God as it's defined in my status.

Words are just words. Especially English words, they're convoluted as fuck. Don't stress on how others' use their dictionary, just focus on using yours in a way that helps you.

All those people around here who have been looking for magick languages just entirely skipped over English as an option.
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taijitu2
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Re: Why the Judeo-Christian bias on this forum?

Post by taijitu2 »

I wrote this while I was upset at Christianity and it shows. Apologizes for sounding aggressive.

EEHC wrote:You make an awful lot of assumptions. Where do you get the idea that ''we all take the existence of Satan'' for granted? I for one do not.
This wasn't meant to imply all forum members believe in Satan, just pointing out the absurdity that some people discover faults with the Abrahamic world view, but instead of adopting a new paradigm all together they merely practice a subversion or inversion of those same beliefs, thus inadvertently perpetuating them.
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Re: Why the Judeo-Christian bias on this forum?

Post by Calicifer »

I think you are mistaking simple dislike for Judeo-Christian faith with an effort to explain phenomenon in commentators own world view. Demons are dangerous beings in practically any world view, some of them treats them better of course, but in all traditional world views, they warn about dangers of dealing with these entities and dangers are very real indeed. So, it's no surprise then basic information is being retold just in different form. This is so, because it's truth.

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Re: Why the Judeo-Christian bias on this forum?

Post by Neters »

Here's something to consider:

Christianity is not, nor has it ever been this great distressing problem that some of those removed like to make it out to be. To be honest, it's a petty thought and quite lowly at that. The issue stems from something much greater, humans. People are the problem, people are always the problem. It doesn't matter if it's Judeo-Xianity or not, people are going to taint it and claim ownership of their bastardized system. There is a purpose to their belief system though, xtians "believe" in something, they believe in a lot of interesting things. Belief is a concept in it of itself that deserves merit, in my opinion. One of these being God in Heaven with his white beard and human form and the flipside being Satan and his horns and pitchfork. We can all relate to these images on some level, right? Satan has always been the badass, you can't say that you never wanted Darth to punch Luke straight in the mouth, right? This being said, a term such as "satan" means so many things to so many people, Satan is a representation on such levels and the terminology is only set forth to help draw those connections.

I wasn't raised a xtian, I would fit more into the Hindu and Eastern side of the school, but still I can relate to the adversarial nature of this "figure". Like it has been mentioned in some other response, it just resonates with a larger crowd and for the sake of education, that makes perfect sense. It would be arrogant to explain a concept on an occult forum using terminology only known to a select audience, hence using Judeo-Xtian terminology serves a purpose.

Get over being mad at Christianity, leave that to the lesser crowds. There is nothing you can do about it. You gotta save yourself before you can save anyone else.

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taijitu2
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Re: Why the Judeo-Christian bias on this forum?

Post by taijitu2 »

Neters wrote:Here's something to consider:

One of these being God in Heaven with his white beard and human form and the flipside being Satan and his horns and pitchfork. We can all relate to these images on some level, right? Satan has always been the badass, you can't say that you never wanted Darth to punch Luke straight in the mouth, right? This being said, a term such as "satan" means so many things to so many people, Satan is a representation on such levels and the terminology is only set forth to help draw those connections.
This misses the point. The "God in a white beard" is very much stolen from the pre-christian EUROPEAN views of their chief Gods such as Zuez. Likewise the "devil" adopted aspects from nature Gods such as Pan.

The point is for people to relies this, and look beyond it.

The real "devil" is the being managed to trick over 3 billion people with its violent, bigoted beliefs.
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Re: Why the Judeo-Christian bias on this forum?

Post by Desecrated »

taijitu2 wrote:
Neters wrote:Here's something to consider:

One of these being God in Heaven with his white beard and human form and the flipside being Satan and his horns and pitchfork. We can all relate to these images on some level, right? Satan has always been the badass, you can't say that you never wanted Darth to punch Luke straight in the mouth, right? This being said, a term such as "satan" means so many things to so many people, Satan is a representation on such levels and the terminology is only set forth to help draw those connections.
This misses the point. The "God in a white beard" is very much stolen from the pre-christian EUROPEAN views of their chief Gods such as Zuez. Likewise the "devil" adopted aspects from nature Gods such as Pan.

The point is for people to relies this, and look beyond it.

The real "devil" is the being managed to trick over 3 billion people with its violent, bigoted beliefs.
And you are missing his point.
You can just erase thousands of years of history just because you've stumbled upon the roots of the religion. We have been brainwashed with the bearded guy in the sky being GOD for at least 1600 years, and if somebody says the word "god", that it was I assume that they mean.
It's just that simple. judeo-christianity is the Lowest common denominator.

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Re: Why the Judeo-Christian bias on this forum?

Post by Sweetgum »

Hello taijitu2

I understand your posting in the Theology section of the forum is as follows ...
That you identify (all) demons as gods
That you connect succubi with the same origin
That you indicate that Satan does not exist because 'half the planet doesn't believe in Satan' and because Satan is a Christian belief

The fact is that one can't put two theologians in a room without there being an argument, so theological issues can only be addressed in general terms
Broadly speaking, Western Occult thought was created by English Victorians whose research came from the Vedas and other early books that had been brought back from what was then British India
Occultism has the same source as Hinduism

One of the messages of the Vedas is that everything created has life in some form
The combined lives of any one sort, produce a 'personification' - a god, small or large
So there are as many 'earth spirits' as there are earth things, and these 'spirits' coalesce into personalities in various forms
These gods are in a hierarchy of power, like a pyramid, with the least powerful at the bottom and the most powerful at the top

Thus occultism is founded on the idea that there are more 'gods' than humans can count or even imagine, and each needs to be approached with caution
whereas the Christianity church holds that only a small number of gods, actually exist - Father, Son, Holy Ghost, Saints and 'The Devil', and their natures are known

The overall thrust of your argument is that you are able to codify spirits, demons and gods, predict their behaviour and identify their natures
This ability has allowed you to identify that one of them, Satan, has no existence
You indicate that you are able to do this because you have no need to rely on 'Judeo-Christian explanations'

So occultists say that gods are unlimited in number and their natures cannot be predicted
the Christian church says that gods are limited in number and their natures are known
you say that gods are limited in number and their natures are known
and you hold that you can say this because you are free of 'Judeo-Christian' indoctrination

What you have created here is a theological joke
These are rare and greatly treasured
I have written yours down to tell my friends
Thank you for giving us a laugh

Best wishes

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taijitu2
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Re: Why the Judeo-Christian bias on this forum?

Post by taijitu2 »

Sweetgum wrote:Hello taijitu2

I understand your posting in the Theology section of the forum is as follows ...
That you identify (all) demons as gods
That you connect succubi with the same origin
That you indicate that Satan does not exist because 'half the planet doesn't believe in Satan' and because Satan is a Christian belief
No... You missed ALL my points. Poorly.

I claimed original, far older term "daemons" is a neutral term, and doesn't imply maliciousness.
Sweetgum wrote:The fact is that one can't put two theologians in a room without there being an argument, so theological issues can only be addressed in general terms. Broadly speaking, Western Occult thought was created by English Victorians whose research came from the Vedas and other early books that had been brought back from what was then British India Occultism has the same source as Hinduism
I disagree that's the GENERALLY accepted "origin of the occult" but feel free to convince me using reputable sources.
Sweetgum wrote:One of the messages of the Vedas is that everything created has life in some form
The combined lives of any one sort, produce a 'personification' - a god, small or large
So there are as many 'earth spirits' as there are earth things, and these 'spirits' coalesce into personalities in various forms
These gods are in a hierarchy of power, like a pyramid, with the least powerful at the bottom and the most powerful at the top
I talk of the GENERAL Abrahamic faiths and THEIR beliefs/influence here and you talk about the Vedas.
Sweetgum wrote:Thus occultism is founded on the idea that there are more 'gods' than humans can count or even imagine, and each needs to be approached with caution
whereas the Christianity church holds that only a small number of gods, actually exist - Father, Son, Holy Ghost, Saints and 'The Devil', and their natures are known
Which was my point genius.
Sweetgum wrote:The overall thrust of your argument is that you are able to codify spirits, demons and gods, predict their behaviour and identify their natures
This ability has allowed you to identify that one of them, Satan, has no existence
You indicate that you are able to do this because you have no need to rely on 'Judeo-Christian explanations'
No, I challenged that a hyper intelligent "fallen angel of Yaweh" exist solely to tempt humans into what the Abrahamics refer to as sin.

I didn't state I could "identity the nature of all spirits".
Sweetgum wrote:So occultists say that gods are unlimited in number and their natures cannot be predicted
the Christian church says that gods are limited in number and their natures are known
you say that gods are limited in number and their natures are known
and you hold that you can say this because you are free of 'Judeo-Christian' indoctrination
I spoke of the MAINSTREAM view of Satan. You know, the GENERAL term you wrote about earlier. Not your obscure, syncretic view of Satan using the works of 19th century English Victorians based on the Vedas.
Sweetgum wrote:What you have created here is a theological joke
These are rare and greatly treasured
I have written yours down to tell my friends
Thank you for giving us a laugh

Best wishes
On the off chance you wanted a serious discussion, ending your post like this only makes you look like a troll.
M'aiq knows much, tells some. M'aiq knows many things others do not.

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