Mainstream occult ideas that you consider really pernicious?

Exploring the Philosophical side of the Occult.

User avatar
Kath
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:29 am

Re: Mainstream occult ideas that you consider really pernicious?

Post by Kath »

Amor wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:43 pm > physicality of symbols not having causal power

Think of a symbol as a TV antenna. It has to be the right shape, right materials and right orientation to work.

If a symbol does not literally resonate with (allow ampified access to) some aspect of Reality then it is not a symbol but rather an emblem.
not sure if that was to me, but it may as well have been.
that is an interesting point. definitely something to think about.

it is my own view, that the substance of what is handled in magical practice is fairly (but not entirely) dissociated with physical reality as we currently understand it. "fairly" being the operative word though. its uh... hmmm, honestly I'd feel more comfortable pontificating on this concept if I could actually do intentional telekinesis. When talking about the direct interaction of magical forces and physical objects, we're kinda in territory where I feel a lack of expertise. That's not to say an absence of experience, but I know enough to understand there's plenty I don't know on the subject.

But for the most part, I kinda lean towards the idea that if someone thought they needed a quartz crystal to focus energy... and you gave them a glass fake, as long as they didn't know it would probably work fine, or at least work as well as a quartz crystal would have for them. Similar mindset for herbs. If it doesn't have mind altering properties, i'm not super-convinced it's all that relevant except for the theatrics of belief paradigm. I lean a little more towards the indonesian notion of the manner in which magic infuses objects. The word "taboo" originally comes from that, a system of things not to touch yourself, or not to allow to touch each other, because you may affect or change the magical potential stored within. I don't take it that far, but that is somewhat closer to my sensibilities than the idea that sage would have a different effect than oregano anywhere other than on my taste buds ;-)

User avatar
Amor
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 88
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:57 pm

Re: Mainstream occult ideas that you consider really pernicious?

Post by Amor »

>at least work as well as a quartz crystal would have

Early on in my experience of such matters I was looking at a crystal in a hill and was surprised to find that its etheric nervous system extended through the galaxy - but not beyond.

Quartz is particularly useful with its very strong communication web.

Just now, testing a drinking glass made of lead crystal, its connections are very largely restricted to the minerals immediately below it, extending quite a few meters. So I suspect that for most energy purposes glass is not interchangeable with quartz crystal.

User avatar
Kath
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:29 am

Re: Mainstream occult ideas that you consider really pernicious?

Post by Kath »

But that's not a blind test which would rule out placebo effect, OR the capacity for belief to affect magical result.

I'd be more convinced if you had a partner who could fool you on what you're working with, materially, and then draw conclusions from that.

Does quartz function as you say? or is it working more like a sigil, and any facsimile would work equally well so long as you regarded it as that material?

It's not so much that it strikes me as impossible that such a thing could work... but that I've never met ANYONE who approached the topic with even an ounce of clinical reason & scientific curiosity with an equally eager willingness to prove or disprove the idea with rational testing methods. The whole "I want to believe" vibe. Which is really a turn off for me. Similar the astrology thing, I mean, personal validation fallacy is a really potent effect. You'd assume someone who put a lot of time & energy into astrology would at some point cut the dates & signs off of predictions, and let people pick through them to see what gels best with their experiences, without them knowing which thing is intended to be 'for them'. Just to see if there's substance to it. It's not a hard thing to test. But I sense a strong lack of willingness to examine it that closely (not necessarily from you personally, but in general).

Personally, I understand the utility of devoting absolute belief in magical practice to the working. But I always deconstruct my results and analyze them with an open mind, with care to weed out self-taught misconceptions or dogma.

User avatar
Amor
Forum Member
Forum Member
Posts: 88
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:57 pm

Re: Mainstream occult ideas that you consider really pernicious?

Post by Amor »

>that's not a blind test which would rule out placebo effect

Quite so. I like to look at what I am doing. Then I can invent more experiments to observe.

At one stage I was part of quite a good meditation group and would ask them to observe my/our inner experiments. Often their viewing was slightly different from mine, but usually adding more information that I could then also detect.

So the process started with an observation/belief leading to a theory, to an experiment, to observations and more deductions. Thus the claimed process of material science can be applied to non-material (spiritual) science. (With material science experimental results the first question often is: who paid for it?)

> Similar the astrology thing

Certainly astrologists are better at explaining than predicting.

Nevertheless it is possible for a suitable meditation group to project out into the solar system and beyond and do experiments with interconnections between planets and stars.

>devoting absolute belief in magical practice to the working

That is important in the use of intent to move energy and intelligence. Still, it is good to be able to follow the flows of light to see where they have trouble flowing.

Perhaps I should add that it is important to control the level of consciousness when using inner sight. It is rarely useful to look in the wrong part of the spectrum of Existence.

Post Reply

Return to “Reason and Unreason”