On the Nature of Will and Determinism

Exploring the Philosophical side of the Occult.

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insomni4c
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On the Nature of Will and Determinism

Post by insomni4c »

I've been taking a break from all of the ritualism for a period of contemplation, and thought I might share some recent thoughts that I've had.

Some of you here may know, I'm a hard determinist (pretty sure I've mentioned it anyways), if not, I'll share the reasoning behind the belief before I get to the next bit haha. It is my belief that free will is an illusion based on our subjective experience of reality. We feel as if we are making decisions, but if you rewound time back to right before you made that decision, keeping every variable the same, I do not believe that it would be possible to make the decision in a different way than you did the first time.

the positions of the stars and planets were decided at the moment that the universe began to expand (or was created if you're a creationist :P), the position and potential energy of every particle would have predicted the exact positions that they would wind up in. Hydrogen collected to form stars in accordance with these initial variables. Within these stars, the heavier elements were born. As these different elements are ejected from dying stars, the same factors that affected the movement of the first particles, dictate the movement of these new elements. These heavier elements collect to form planets, and other heavenly bodies. The Earth's exact chemical composition and position in the universe created the condition necessary for RNA etc. to form, leading to the eventual birth of single cellular life.

According to the theory of evolution, life changes and adapts over time to adapt to its environment. Because of the nature of our planet, this chain of evolution eventually reached Homo Sapiens. Evolution gave us our instincts and complex neurotransmitters, and a variety of other things that not only help us survive, but also affect our every action. Those neurotransmitters like dopamine, serotonin, epinephrine, endorphins, that affect our moods and actions, are often triggered by external stimuli, determining how we react to these stimuli.

Sure, you could have stayed in bed this morning instead of going to work, but would you have? I would say no. Think about a decision that you wish you had made differently, if you were to take into account every external and internal factor influencing your decision, there is no way you could have made any decision other than the one that you made. We like to feel as if we deliberately get up in the morning and make that cup of coffee, but we are really slaves to a chain of cause and effect going back to the beginning of the universe.

Now that that is over with, here's the point in my argument for determinism.

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" proclaims Aiwass. The book of the law states that a person's True Will is always in accordance with the Will of Nuit. Nuit being the egyptian sky goddess, the all, infinite space; it's not a stretch to associate Nuit with the physical universe, which would mean that the Will of Nuit is the Will of the universe itself. In my own deterministic worldview, the will of the universe dictates every action we make. This would mean that we do nothing but our True Will, meaning that the law of liberty is not necessarily a law in the sense that it's something to be obeyed, but rather a law in the scientific usage of the word. So we do nothing but our Will.

In this light, finding one's True Will is not done in order to physically do anything differently in an attempt to fulfill it, but to understand it and see how it guides our actions and the movement of everything in the universe, similar to the Tao (if my understanding of the concept is correct anyways haha). There is no way to fight against the current of Will, as every act of rebellion is only possible in accordance with that very same current. Understanding this, the restrictions and regrets that rise from our subjective experience of the illusion of free will fall away; the ego can move aside and let True will move freely.

Falling into this illusion of "free will" leads to suffering and anger as we face the failures and shortcomings of ourselves and others (although, believing in the illusion is just as determined as freeing yourself of it, so you can hardly blame someone for it haha). In reality, there is no failure, no missteps, no wrongdoings; no one has a choice where Will takes them. This is not to say that you should not be a good person, or that violent crime should go unpunished, since these factors may help suppress those types of actions (the justice system, and systems of morality are just as much variables in the chain of causality as the position of the sun). It means that wrongdoings must be forgiven, that you must forgive yourself for your missteps, since there are no wrongdoings or missteps, all things are perfect and in accordance with the Will of Nuit.

Causality (or the will of God if you prefer) is not something to be held in contempt for robbing us of freedoms, but something to be understood. You cannot help but "love thy neighbor" when you realize that he is in the exact situation that you are. Determinism is freeing, we become free from blame and the fears of failure. When everything happens in a way that is both perfect and in accordance with the universe, what is there to worry about? Your Will will be done whether you fret about it or not, so why fret? We live, love, and feel in accordance to the movement of all things. The universe unfolds before us, revealing it's mysteries that we may marvel at. Every experience is a holy interaction with the All, and is therefore beautiful.

Whether or not you currently agree with me, it's something to think about. I would definitely like to hear any thoughts anyone has on this.

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Re: On the Nature of Will and Determinism

Post by RoseRed »

There is no way to fight against the current of Will,
Sure there is. It's called Discipline.
When my wings get tired I grab my broom.

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insomni4c
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Re: On the Nature of Will and Determinism

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There is no way to fight against the current of Will,

Sure there is. It's called Discipline.
Not if everything is the Will of the universe haha, which is what I was kind of getting at. In which case, that discipline would be just as much that Will as any other action, so it wouldn't really be fighting against it. I could of course be wrong haha since this is more of a philosophical thing rather than a proven fact, which would mean that your assertion would be true. What is your reasoning behind believing that discipline is not just as determined as anything else? I was hoping that this thread could spark a philosophical discussion lol.
Last edited by insomni4c on Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RoseRed
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Re: On the Nature of Will and Determinism

Post by RoseRed »

Oh, I know what you were getting at. I just don't agree.

Yes, I think some things are predetermined but not everything.

To each their own.
When my wings get tired I grab my broom.

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Shinichi
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Re: On the Nature of Will and Determinism

Post by Shinichi »

I think you're mixing up a few concepts. Fate is not the same thing as True Will, nor is the Will of the Self the same thing as the Will of God (Nuit, Macrocosm), technically speaking, even though the two are closely aligned.

"Do what thou Wilt shall be the whole of The Law. Love is The Law, Love under Will." -- The Book of The Law.

There's a few things that should be clearly understood when studying Crowley, or any old school magician.

1) The True Will is not your ordinary desire of the ego-personality. It is the Will of the Higher Self, that part of the Human that is named Spirit. The Spirit has its own Will, which is the True Will since the Spirit is the only part of the human being that is fully immortal from the start. This true Will is what helps decide your fate, before you are even born, in order to experience the things it needs to experience to in order to evolve and grow -- like a student of mathematics who understands, "okay, I need to learn Algebra before I'll be ready for Calculus." Naturally, since this True Will is so Wise, it will not go against the Will of Nuit (the Macrocosmic Flow), but will instead always do things naturally.

2) Since the ego-will is not the True Will, saying that "we do nothing but our Will" is very incorrect. The average person does not even know what their Will really is, let alone how to act on it and remain true to it all the time.

3) There is more than one aspect to the Web of Fate (The Moirai and the Norns are three, after all). One is the Principle of Cause and Effect, where everything that happens is a consequence of something that was done before. There is no morality attached to this concept, in the occult sense. If you throw a rock in the pond, there will be ripples. If you murder someone in a fit of rage, you'll go to jail. Do something, and something else will happen. This is the Flow of Nature, the "influence of the stars," and most people are ruled by this. Another side of this coin is the Chosen Fate, which is the sequence of events chosen by the True Will and, in certain cosmologies, certain other spirits like the Guardian Angel.

Most people do not live their Chosen Fate fully, and thus they are not living their True Will to the fullest extent. Likewise, in the case of someone who has reached the state of consciousness where they are always living according to Will, that person will not be ruled by the stars, and will be able to adjust their Will as they need to. So it is possible to use discipline (and magic) to alter Fate and it is possible to defy True Will by intentionally or unintentionally ignoring the Chosen Fate (though, from experience: it is not pleasant).

When studying classical ideas or occult concepts, remember one thing: context. What you think about a concept that someone taught is not as important as what they thought about it, at least initially. Once you really learn the heart of the concept, then you can start altering it or exploring how it applies to other things. But if you do this with an incomplete understanding of the concept, you start mixing things up and it all gets confusing very quickly. Especially for others.



~:Shin:~

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Re: On the Nature of Will and Determinism

Post by insomni4c »

1) The True Will is not your ordinary desire of the ego-personality. It is the Will of the Higher Self, that part of the Human that is named Spirit. The Spirit has its own Will, which is the True Will since the Spirit is the only part of the human being that is fully immortal from the start. This true Will is what helps decide your fate, before you are even born, in order to experience the things it needs to experience to in order to evolve and grow -- like a student of mathematics who understands, "okay, I need to learn Algebra before I'll be ready for Calculus." Naturally, since this True Will is so Wise, it will not go against the Will of Nuit (the Macrocosmic Flow), but will instead always do things naturally.

2) Since the ego-will is not the True Will, saying that "we do nothing but our Will" is very incorrect. The average person does not even know what their Will really is, let alone how to act on it and remain true to it all the time.

3) There is more than one aspect to the Web of Fate (The Moirai and the Norns are three, after all). One is the Principle of Cause and Effect, where everything that happens is a consequence of something that was done before. There is no morality attached to this concept, in the occult sense. If you throw a rock in the pond, there will be ripples. If you murder someone in a fit of rage, you'll go to jail. Do something, and something else will happen. This is the Flow of Nature, the "influence of the stars," and most people are ruled by this. Another side of this coin is the Chosen Fate, which is the sequence of events chosen by the True Will and, in certain cosmologies, certain other spirits like the Guardian Angel.
If the deterministic worldview explained first were to be correct, the implications of that would be that we are not able to do or not do our True Will, everything we do would be in accordance with the Macrocosmic Will. Also this essay http://iao131.com/2011/04/30/the-will-i ... wo-planes/ definitely seems to support my view on the subject, and here's an interesting read similar to what I wrote that someone sent me while I was writing the first post haha http://thelema-and-skepticism.blogspot. ... l.html?m=1.

I admit I have only read a few of Crowley's works at this point, but i do know that he didn't support a dogmatic echoing of his own viewpoints, but rather suggested finding your own view on these kinds of things. So there's nothing wrong with speculation and checking things out from a different perspective. I've done a couple read-throughs of the book of the law, along with Crowley's commentary (I find myself disagreeing with his interpretation of certain verses), but as far as I can tell, It doesn't seem to contradict what I'm saying.

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Re: On the Nature of Will and Determinism

Post by manonthepath »

Firstly, we can never know. Secondly, how does thinking about this help me in my growth? The cosmos operates by its rules and that's it. we're part of it and can't understand every aspect of how it operates. We are too finite. wouldn't it be more productive to examine your inner self in the interest of personal development. whether my choice to tell you this is destiny or if I'm just throwing my two cents in comes because I'm a plucky guy makes no difference. The thing is that you are reading it and the balls in your court to grow. By your reasoning (and you may well be right) you were meant to read my words, so ponder them well.

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