how does magick work

[annarb]

So one thing that really stops me from getting more into actually practicing magick is the lack of any explanation on how it works or could work...to me its always seemed like theres something to it and ive always been open minded but id like to know what mechanism magick would work besides "a spirit or god did it" although i acknowledge spirits may exist not all magick even includes interacting with them...ive heard references to quantum physics explaining how magick could work but ive never seen that explained in a way ive understood and found convincing...so what are the main theories on how magick works and what do you believe

[Desecrated]

Beginners Book List
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... =2&t=39045

Information Resources
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 57&t=36162

Fundamental Development
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 57&t=37025

Also, this might help some.

http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 0&p=507842

And to some degree this:

http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 5&p=504112

[Count Zero]

Magick is simply changes made through an application of the will in the medium of possibility. You take something that is unlikely to happen, apply your will to make it happen, and increase the chances of that thing happening in the process. Much of magick is internalised, but its through that internalisation that you create external change, often through an application of a specific attitude. Problem is, if you don't believe in what you're doing any changes you make happen will be passed off by your own mind as happening through either chance or through mundane means.

An example of this would be trying to make someone choose you for a certain job. It's through applying your will to create the necessary changes that increase your chances that you become more appealing to your potential new employer, this manifesting as an increase in personal magnetism, confidence, and overall image. People are attracted to these specific features, so through magick you focus upon those key things and attempt to create a greater appeal in the process.

Maybe ask yourself what draws you to the use of magick over other systems of personal development and change, and then go about learning how to apply yourself in that direction. If you wish to go through a personal metamorphosis, concentrate on systems that are geared in that direction. If you want to become better at a specific set of skills, look at systems that can help you achieve that.

(Count) = 0

[annarb]

it sounds to me and please correct me if im wrong... but that your saying magic is simply psychological motivation or a placebo and to me magic has never been that.. to me the whole point of magic is action at a distance or making something objectivily happen through nonordinary means...please correct me if i misunderstood but to me it sounds as though your stating that magic is like a placebo?

[Desecrated]

it sounds to me and please correct me if im wrong... but that your saying magic is simply psychological motivation or a placebo and to me magic has never been that.. to me the whole point of magic is action at a distance or making something objectivily happen through nonordinary means...please correct me if i misunderstood but to me it sounds as though your stating that magic is like a placebo?

You'll come across 3 different way of thinking in magic.
1 It's all in your head.
2. Some of it is real but your mind distorts things.
3. It's all real.

So you can view a magical event as being nothing then placebo, as being a connection with something supernatural or a combination of both. It really doesn't mater because the end result is the same.
If I burn some incense it either works as a placebo OR there are real qualities in the herbs that really do cause an affect, but the end result is that you "do something so that something will happen".

[Moth]

it sounds to me and please correct me if im wrong... but that your saying magic is simply psychological motivation or a placebo and to me magic has never been that.. to me the whole point of magic is action at a distance or making something objectivily happen through nonordinary means...please correct me if i misunderstood but to me it sounds as though your stating that magic is like a placebo?

You are correct - however placebo's are also magic :-)

If you want to talk science, I've spent 30 years researching the actual science behind magic. I know Aleister Crowley said "You don't need to know how a tractor works in order to drive one", but I considered this to be an enormous cop-out. However, he also said "Every intentional act is a magical act." and in that, he was more correct than he knew.

Basically, it comes down to choice. You make choices every day, act on them, and don't think much of it. You select your action from a number of outcomes.

With magic, you arrange that the choice *is* the action. The result need not be dependent on anything other than the state of your brain/mind. This is because, when you perform magic (either normal or 'magical') you do not change the universe - you move to the place where it is changed.

Imagine the whole universe as a choose-your-own-adventure book with every possible outcome of every possible choice therein. The whole book already exists, but you can only follow a single path through it, choosing alternatives as you go. This we usually refer to as "the passage of time" :-)

I won't bore you with the physics, but that is the basis of it. You can consider magic as an edge condition of normal human consciousness :-)

[Kami]

You've come a long way like the rest of us.
Congrats.

Magick is manipulating the hand of chance.

Have you ever wanted something so bad that days later it just comes out of nowhere?
A friend brings whatever it is that you wanted,
Or a family member; e.t.c.

That right there is what we're trying to have happen allot more often than not.

Chaos magick is a good system for this type of stuff.

Allow me to help you see.

What happens if you go to google and search for an answer negatively?
You get negative results.
For example:

Google: "I don't know how to bring the dead back to life, does anyone know how?",
You will probably end up with a lot of debates and stuff.
But... If you were to alter your question - like this,
Google: "I know how to bring the dead back to life.",
You will probably end up with a few good links to sciences or up coming sciences that deal with bringing the dead back to life.

That in essence is how chaos magick works.

You create a statement such as: "I am happy with my life".
And you use any method to sigilize it/turn it into a symbol.
You charge this symbol with your positive "feelings".
And then you discharge it with burning it with fire etc.
Whatever method you decide to use - is fine.
You just have to believe in yourself.
And you will start to see good things happening in your life.
Only if your subconscious believes it will happen.
If you have negative subconscious resistance - your challenge for it to fail will be the only thing that manifests.

Everything you will ever need - exists; there's just obstacles in the way.
~

[Hadit]

Magic is the ability to willfully go against mechanistic nature. Human beings have this Gift, but most are not taught to use it properly.

[Kami]

Magic is the ability to willfully go against mechanistic nature. Human beings have this Gift, but most are not taught to use it properly.

T.L.D.R. = This. ~

Hadit one of many whom I greatly respect. ~

c:

[Count Zero]

it sounds to me and please correct me if im wrong... but that your saying magic is simply psychological motivation or a placebo and to me magic has never been that.. to me the whole point of magic is action at a distance or making something objectivily happen through nonordinary means...please correct me if i misunderstood but to me it sounds as though your stating that magic is like a placebo?

Hmmm... this might be a long answer. I was brought up to believe in the occult, so the spiritual world was never not real to me. I didn't know organised religions really existed until I was older - I was told about fairies, about the astral, hedge riding etc. I remember we used to leave saucers of milk or sugar water out for the Fae, and there were certain parts of the garden that we weren't allowed to go into. Therefore the spiritual world has always been real, always been tied directly to the mundane world.

Now, I believe that reality is both objective and subjective, not one or the other - we have an objective reality that exists outside of our need to believe or understand it, the sun rises and sets, we age, we breathe and our heart pumps blood through our veins - none of that matters if we believe in it or not. We also have a subjective reality, that which we use to perceive and understand the objective reality, and thats dependent on many things - we can see a limited amount of colours, hear a limited range of sounds, and much of our subjective reality is dependent on our interpretation. Neither reality, the objective external reality and subjective inner reality, is any more valid than the other, but the objective reality doesn't require us to perceive, believe or understand it for it to exist, while our inner subjective reality requires that we believe in specific key factors in order for it to exist, such as the existence or non-existence of God, good and evil, right and wrong, our moral code etc.

Through my belief that reality is both subjective and objective, I can see that the most important element of my inner subjective reality is belief - I am creating my subjective reality solely through my belief in the validity of my perception of the external objective reality, and my trust that my understanding of that objective reality is valid, and that through that understanding I can function subjectively in an objective way. This has lead me to study a range of things - I have studied both Newtonian and Quantum physics, theology, and world religions. I spend a lot of time discussing both religion and science with people, and have contacts in both fields that I rely on to test my own understanding who know a considerable amount about the subjects than I do, for example my father who holds a PhD in chaos mathematics, and several university lecturers and holders of doctoral degrees in theology, along with other people I've met in the last thirty odd years I've studied and practiced magick.

I believe strongly in the spirits of the Ars Goetia, but that each spirit listed is a demonised form of an older god from a culture conquered by the forming nation of Israel. From my history of sexual abuse and then sex addiction, and several other key factors that happened in my teens, such as severe addiction and being clinically dead from collapsed lungs brought on by ruptured ulcers, I believe I was visited by the demon Asmodeus, and through making a spiritual pact with him now consider him to be my personal patron, and guide. I have studied the legend of Asmodeus back to its roots in Zoroastrianism, and have seen his presence in my life many times since.

I also believe that my life is tied in with the Goddess Lilith, and that through sheer persistence and being killed by her through a pulmonary embolism, which I only survived by having my heart restart when I fell backwards down a flight of steps, I have piqued her interest, and that she continues to be a presence in my life. I also follow a form of Demonolatry in which Asmodeus and Lilith are husband and wife, thus making me yet closer to her, even though shes traditionally not that nice to men as a whole.

I believe through my understanding of objective and subjective reality that my subjective beliefs in the gods I worship then in turn affect objective reality solely through my personal beliefs, but also that my beliefs are not any more real or valid than anyone else's, as their beliefs are also subjective. Therefore I don't tend to discuss my beliefs with people, nor try to force them on others, as they can be subjectively real for me, but not for other people whose own subjectively real beliefs are equally as valid. Therefore it really doesn't matter that much if what I believe in is true objectively, what matters is that I believe in it myself, and it is therefore subjectively real for me.

I have experienced dying twice - both are part of the public record, I was admitted to hospital with a ruptured ulcer and collapsed lung, while I was in hospital my other lung collapsed under the strain and I suffocated to death. I have a scar down my front from where my rib cage ends to my navel where I was literally ripped open so they could repair my diaphragm and allow me to start breathing again. The second time I had blood clots travel from my legs as a result of deep vein thrombosis brought about by not moving enough on a flight to Australia, and I believe that Asmodeus saved my life by restarting my heart - I remember seeing him stomp on my chest, though its most likely falling down a flight of steps did it. I attribute both deaths to Lilith, as the first time I was actively petitioning Lilith to resolve something and the second I heard her voice quite clearly say 'If you can survive this. you can survive anything'.

So no, I don't believe that magick is a placebo, I believe that it is an application of the will, but through the medium of belief. As reality is subjective and objective at the same time, causing changes in your own subjective reality can in turn cause changes in the external objective reality.

[Moth]

Magic is the ability to willfully go against mechanistic nature. Human beings have this Gift, but most are not taught to use it properly.

You don't go against nature, you exploit nature, by exploiting a loophole of normal human consciousness. You are right that everyone has it, and you have to be taught to use it because unless you've spontaneously developed a constant magical attitude, it will happen randomly and not very often, normally getting called "luck" or "coincidence"...

[Desecrated]

Magic is the ability to willfully go against mechanistic nature. Human beings have this Gift, but most are not taught to use it properly.

For me, working magic has always been about adjusting myself to the flow of nature/universe.
(I'm not saying that there absolutely has to be a "real" flow or energy but it's a good way of visualizing it.)
I don't try to go against anything, especially not with a lot of force. I will rather shift myself (or my thinking) to the position that has the least resistance. It's more like aikido for me, use the force against the opponent and just re-direct the attack to where you'd rather want it. And then try and draw towards you the things that you do want.

But then again, I don't believe in a strictly mechanized nature either, I prefer a reality that is a bit more dynamic and unpredictable. ( I really hate constants)

[Hadit]

Magic is the ability to willfully go against mechanistic nature. Human beings have this Gift, but most are not taught to use it properly.

T.L.D.R. = This. ~

Hadit one of many whom I greatly respect. ~

c:

Ohhhhhh thank you! ^_^ you're not too shabby yourself.