Differences in Perspective - Naive Realism

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blindwake
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Differences in Perspective - Naive Realism

Post by blindwake »

Let's say there's two people in a room. In this room is a colored cube. In objective terms, both people call the color of the cube "blue".

However, because people do not see the world directly, but in their own internal models, it is possible that what each person calls "blue" does not subjectively look the same.

Assume that the two people are identical twins, so they have the same physical structure, and should have more or less the same visual faculties.

If the physical side of the twins are the same, but the twins are seeing different colors, then the cause of this difference must be non-physical.

What non-physical element could be changing the color each person sees?

If you could somehow attach the perspectives of these two people to monitors, in order to see the subjective colors differences, what variables could you change to make both people see the same color?

The color is not its mapping, so how does the mapping (measurable wavelengths bounced off the cube) result in a subjective color? Where is the color if not directly where it appears?
If all brains are made roughly the same, then why do I perceive through my own? What special characteristic places me in this skull?
I do not move throughout the world. The engines do not move the ship, but the universe.
The law of synonyms: my experience is synonymous with my brain, I change my experience to change my brain. so I change the physical with my thoughts.

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Kath
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Re: Differences in Perspective - Naive Realism

Post by Kath »

Interestingly, people will see objects as different colors based on an "impression" of the color of the lighting and it's effects. For example, if i show you a green pair of shoes, but then i give you the impression of yellow-ish sodium vapor lighting... then you will likely regard the shoes as blue, tainted by yellow light. An ambiguity of lighting situation can make a picture look like it has objects of differing colors to different people, based on the sort of second-tier perception where the brain is making logical sense of the 3-D space and the lighting therein.

As for the basic question though... was there a question? or was it more a treatise on the subjective nature of reality perception? I mean i see several sentences ending in ?, but i'm not sure any of them are entirely answerable.

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Caerdon
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Re: Differences in Perspective - Naive Realism

Post by Caerdon »

The colour is based off of the light wavelengths absorbed compared to the wavelengths reflected. With the proper equipment you can detect the wavelengths reflected to determine the exact colour of an object.

However, a person's perception of that colour is too dependent on multiple things, from the receptors in your eyes that pick up light wavelengths, to being exposed to different colour shades in your life, to simple biology (women are able to, on average, perceive more colour shades than males), as well as even your mood, and a multitude of other factors.

You ask what element changes the shade of colour each person sees? Well... it's personal perception.
Time is but an illusion in perception and is only perceived to pass by at the same moments together for us all... which is, quite frankly, me saying to not expect from me in a timely manner!
-I am but a simple wanderer... Though I may be gone for immeasurable time, always do I return.

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blindwake
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Re: Differences in Perspective - Naive Realism

Post by blindwake »

You guys have slightly missed the point.

What I'm getting at is where the actual qualia comes from, and what decides it. You don't get a rainbow when you cut open a brain, so where are the colors?

Suppose we have two completely identical observers, physically speaking, in the exact same positions, with the exact same neural wirings, etc. For all intents and purposes, the observers are identical.
Now suppose they both see completely different scenes (or perhaps we could prove that they must see the same thing?) In one's eyes, the sky looks blue, and grass looks green. In the other, the sky looks green, and grass looks blue.

In both brains, the received wavelengths are the same, the data representations / neural nets are defined identically, but consciousness maps these data sets to different qualia for both observers.

I'm trying to find a basis for consciousness, sort of.

Take this problem for example:

You need to teleport a human from China to Mexico. The rules are, the person cannot have a break of consciousness from being in China, to being in Mexico. It has to be a continuous transition.
If your teleporter is naive, it might destroy the human in China, and perfectly reconstruct it in Mexico. But this leaves the progression of consciousness in a slightly undefined state.

The question sort of boils down to: why do I experience being myself and not someone else?
Really, if all human brains are more or less the same, why should you experience being yourself instead of another?

I hate to say it, but it seems like there's something akin to a "soul", and I'd like to postulate on how it is bound to bodies, forced to follow certain experiential paths, etc.
As for the basic question though... was there a question? or was it more a treatise on the subjective nature of reality perception? I mean i see several sentences ending in ?, but i'm not sure any of them are entirely answerable.
Here's a concise question: why do you perceive being you, and not another person?
If all brains are made roughly the same, then why do I perceive through my own? What special characteristic places me in this skull?
I do not move throughout the world. The engines do not move the ship, but the universe.
The law of synonyms: my experience is synonymous with my brain, I change my experience to change my brain. so I change the physical with my thoughts.

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Kath
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Re: Differences in Perspective - Naive Realism

Post by Kath »

blindwake wrote:
As for the basic question though... was there a question? or was it more a treatise on the subjective nature of reality perception? I mean i see several sentences ending in ?, but i'm not sure any of them are entirely answerable.
Here's a concise question: why do you perceive being you, and not another person?
In the microcosm, I happen to be me. I'm not sure there's any particular meaning to that. It's just where I happen to be.
In the macrocosm, am I really 'me'?
or do i merely touch reality where 'me-ness' as i know it happens to be?

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Re: Differences in Perspective - Naive Realism

Post by Spida »

The Pentagram indicates four elements, with the top point sometimes associated with spirit. Now if the fifth is also considered as an element, but a special element that we call consciousness - the microcosm.

Now it's not microcosmic consciousness that renders individuality. For all intents and purposes we will say it's the same for everyone, but there are two sides to this coin, a duality. It is this marriage of spirit to matter, consciousness to a physical vessel that creates the uniqueness that we observe.

The spirit merely conforms to the vessel that it is plugged into, so unique vessels create unique individuals.

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