Original post: Arckangel
From what I know, Buddhist mantras bring up bad karma so you experience and expiate it. But the experience might be tragic. I've BEEN there...
I'm still chanting daimoku, Nam-Myoho Renge Kyo. The worse happened aready.
I've read the Heart Sutra brings bad karma up too... I understand the concept of experiencing bad things in order to expiate past life and current life sins but...
Isn't there a way to just chant and expiate it, without having to experience outrageous ordeals every time?
From what I know, Hindu mantras, all of them -there are hundreds-, annihilate bad karma WITHOUT making you experience tragedies. Thiru Neela Kantam is one of them. You visualize a blue light on the throat area where Adam's apple is located and see that ight get darker and darker and darker until it's black.
I know you're gonna say ordeals are part of life etc. But not everyone is so mortification/austerity oriented and someone that has been through decades of horribe sufferings of all kinds won't want to re-experience it forever.
Yes, you can learn from hardships and grow but depending on the case and the person it can be quite traumatic and even fatal.
So, Buddhist mantras are good but Hindu mantras better? We've had so many past lifetimes from Atlantis to this day.
A witch told that balance oil used a certain way allows you to face all your karma at once so you won't have to deal with al that past karma again but you don't know what might happen...
She told me she uses it on criminals so they face their karma all at once...
Are Hindu Mantras Better?
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Are Hindu Mantras Better?
Original post: IAO131
They are words. They all have relatively the same effect - stilling/concentrating the mind.
IAO131
Uh... Sure...Arckangel;349331 wrote:From what I know, Buddhist mantras bring up bad karma so you experience and expiate it. But the experience might be tragic. I've BEEN there...
They are words. They all have relatively the same effect - stilling/concentrating the mind.
That is projection and a bad causal connection. You don't 'bring up bad karma' from saying words. I don't even believe in karma in the sense you seem to be talking about (which seems to be a veiled form of sin or bad feelings).I'm still chanting daimoku, Nam-Myoho Renge Kyo. The worse happened aready.
I've read the Heart Sutra brings bad karma up too... I understand the concept of experiencing bad things in order to expiate past life and current life sins but...
It matters... are you covering up tons of problems? If so, a mantra or any kind of remotely efficacious practice will bring those thoughts back. What exactly are you experiencing? Saying 'bad karma' is vague beyond comprehension.Isn't there a way to just chant and expiate it, without having to experience outrageous ordeals every time?
How do you 'know' this? Or rather, where did you read it/hear it? Its not true nor based in anything remotely tenable. Its not like Hindu and Buddhist mantras arose at different times to do different things. They are identical practices essentially. Aside from that, like you mention, there are hundreds of mantras. Even in Buddhisms, you just dont happen to be aware of htem.From what I know, Hindu mantras, all of them -there are hundreds-, annihilate bad karma WITHOUT making you experience tragedies.
Mantra practice does not necessraily entail visualization. You obviously are getting all this from some dude who is versed in a very specific way of sdoing things.Thiru Neela Kantam is one of them. You visualize a blue light on the throat area where Adam's apple is located and see that ight get darker and darker and darker until it's black.
If you want ignorance, then dont do practices.I know you're gonna say ordeals are part of life etc. But not everyone is so mortification/austerity oriented and someone that has been through decades of horribe sufferings of all kinds won't want to re-experience it forever.
Youre still here.Yes, you can learn from hardships and grow but depending on the case and the person it can be quite traumatic and even fatal.
No and no. Reincarnation doesnt exist. Nor did Atlantis. Sounds like your head needs to be cleared of a lot of nonsense.So, Buddhist mantras are good but Hindu mantras better? We've had so many past lifetimes from Atlantis to this day.
A witch? What was a witch doing talking about karma? Soundsd like you have some ridiculous sources for your beliefs and practices, to be completely frank.A witch told that balance oil used a certain way allows you to face all your karma at once so you won't have to deal with al that past karma again but you don't know what might happen...
She sounds like a complete buffoon and swindler to me.She told me she uses it on criminals so they face their karma all at once...
IAO131
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Are Hindu Mantras Better?
Original post: Rin Daemoko
I support everything IAO131 has written.
I support everything IAO131 has written.
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Are Hindu Mantras Better?
Original post: Dionesia La Maga
IAO131 is a wise man. A little tough on you but revere him.
'
I've been saying Hindu mantras for the past 30 years (and Buddhist and Sikh mantras). They can have magical effects if used in a certain way but that's a bit more complicated. Otherwise, they are just words and sound vibrations that have an effect on consciousness and physiology.
The worst cathartic shit happened when I was really really involved with mantrayana related to deities and practices related to devotion to the Goddess, but that IS what it does and in the end you have to be happy about it. In those icons of deities wielding weapons and standing on corpses and what not--the weapon has your blood on it. Your mask-like ego-head is dangling from the left hand of that deity., Your flawed sense of self and your baggage is what the deity is slaying. Remember that. As IAO said, if you want ignorance--and can't handle or are afraid of the consequences of practice, don't practice. Find a new hobby.
As for explaining things via karma and purging karma. Yeah, this is just fluffy, fire and brimstone for the pedestrian masses--whether it be in Christian ideology, Hindu ideology --or Buddhist and in my experience (ironically) Buddhist is the worst. You're supposed to be using these practices to purge consciousness of self-defeating and limiting and robot-like habits and conditioning but you end up replacing it with more junk via control-indoctrination.
Find a different, more empowering way of thinking about these things.
IAO131 is a wise man. A little tough on you but revere him.
'
I've been saying Hindu mantras for the past 30 years (and Buddhist and Sikh mantras). They can have magical effects if used in a certain way but that's a bit more complicated. Otherwise, they are just words and sound vibrations that have an effect on consciousness and physiology.
The worst cathartic shit happened when I was really really involved with mantrayana related to deities and practices related to devotion to the Goddess, but that IS what it does and in the end you have to be happy about it. In those icons of deities wielding weapons and standing on corpses and what not--the weapon has your blood on it. Your mask-like ego-head is dangling from the left hand of that deity., Your flawed sense of self and your baggage is what the deity is slaying. Remember that. As IAO said, if you want ignorance--and can't handle or are afraid of the consequences of practice, don't practice. Find a new hobby.
As for explaining things via karma and purging karma. Yeah, this is just fluffy, fire and brimstone for the pedestrian masses--whether it be in Christian ideology, Hindu ideology --or Buddhist and in my experience (ironically) Buddhist is the worst. You're supposed to be using these practices to purge consciousness of self-defeating and limiting and robot-like habits and conditioning but you end up replacing it with more junk via control-indoctrination.
Find a different, more empowering way of thinking about these things.
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Are Hindu Mantras Better?
Original post: cyberdemon08
The way I use mantras is as a part of my Japa practices. My sources and experience tells me that using a mantra of a Godname can held bring the qualities of that deity to manifest within you. As an example, I use a mantra of YHSVH, with emphasis on the idea of Spirit within Matter, and attibutes like compassion, mercy, perseverance, etc.
The way I use mantras is as a part of my Japa practices. My sources and experience tells me that using a mantra of a Godname can held bring the qualities of that deity to manifest within you. As an example, I use a mantra of YHSVH, with emphasis on the idea of Spirit within Matter, and attibutes like compassion, mercy, perseverance, etc.
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Are Hindu Mantras Better?
Original post: Jenfucius
IMO There really isnt much of differance between the two. Many Buddhist system use Sanskrit based mantras. Even if the mantra is in Tibetan the results are pretty much the same (in comparison to Hindu mantras). 9I have two friends one use Hindu mantras the other Tibetan. No real difference as results is concern). shrug
IMO As for karma & hell we really dont know if it exist or not. We simply dont know.
IMO There really isnt much of differance between the two. Many Buddhist system use Sanskrit based mantras. Even if the mantra is in Tibetan the results are pretty much the same (in comparison to Hindu mantras). 9I have two friends one use Hindu mantras the other Tibetan. No real difference as results is concern). shrug
IMO As for karma & hell we really dont know if it exist or not. We simply dont know.
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Are Hindu Mantras Better?
Original post: Arckangel
Those of you who don't believe in reincarnation see life as a continuum? SGI Buddhists don't talk about the soul being reborn but the mind having a new life. It's all similar to me.
Here's what I found on Atlantis and Akashic Records.
http://www.occultforums.com/showthread. ... post349514
Those of you who don't believe in reincarnation see life as a continuum? SGI Buddhists don't talk about the soul being reborn but the mind having a new life. It's all similar to me.
Here's what I found on Atlantis and Akashic Records.
http://www.occultforums.com/showthread. ... post349514
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Are Hindu Mantras Better?
Original post: AlTan
I've been using mantras of India (both of the vedic and tantric traditions) for years, and I think what you experience depends on the mantra you use, and how you use it.
Mantras are not just words, but vibration generators. They will often tend to jiggle loose repressed patterns, and this can affect both one's subjective state and one's life.
If you dedicate yourself to some of the mantras of Kaalii, for example, you will be confronting any fear of death you may have. If you resist releasing that pattern, it can create conflict that will manifest in life. These patterns aren't just psychological, but involve the outer world as well.
You can bring in the idea of karma, but I find there is just a lot of conceptual twisting around that word. Bad karma, good karma, and monotheistic ideas of divine judgment often get confused.
Actually, it's the first time I heard that Buddhist mantras will cause unfavourable ("bad karma") circumstances and Indian mantras will not. Some mantras tend to affect kundalini more than others, and that will vibrate what is usually subconscious in us. If you push too hard, you can end up taking on more than you can handle.
I would take each mantra on its own merit, instead of categorizing exclusively between religions. In addition, I would research pronunciation pretty thoroughly because mantras can tend to "backfire" when you don't pronounce them correctly.
I've been using mantras of India (both of the vedic and tantric traditions) for years, and I think what you experience depends on the mantra you use, and how you use it.
Mantras are not just words, but vibration generators. They will often tend to jiggle loose repressed patterns, and this can affect both one's subjective state and one's life.
If you dedicate yourself to some of the mantras of Kaalii, for example, you will be confronting any fear of death you may have. If you resist releasing that pattern, it can create conflict that will manifest in life. These patterns aren't just psychological, but involve the outer world as well.
You can bring in the idea of karma, but I find there is just a lot of conceptual twisting around that word. Bad karma, good karma, and monotheistic ideas of divine judgment often get confused.
Actually, it's the first time I heard that Buddhist mantras will cause unfavourable ("bad karma") circumstances and Indian mantras will not. Some mantras tend to affect kundalini more than others, and that will vibrate what is usually subconscious in us. If you push too hard, you can end up taking on more than you can handle.
I would take each mantra on its own merit, instead of categorizing exclusively between religions. In addition, I would research pronunciation pretty thoroughly because mantras can tend to "backfire" when you don't pronounce them correctly.
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Original post: IAO131
[QUOTE=Arckangel;349511]Those of you who don't believe in reincarnation see life as a continuum? SGI Buddhists don't talk about the soul being reborn but the mind hacving a new life. It's all similar to me.
Here's wht I found on Atlantis and Akashic Records.
http://www.occultforums.com/showthread. ... post349514[/QUOTE]
You are born and then you die. Your consciousness arose with theh development of your nervous system and it will pass away when your body disintegrates... just like people with Alzheimers lose their memory and others lose various other cognitive abilities. Reincarnation is a spiritual pipedream and a scare tactic depending on how you come at it - both are false in my opinion. If youre ego can be completely annihilated IN THIS LIFE what would be left of your mind to be reincarnated anyhow? If you poke a hole in your head, you lose consciousness and various functions... and the mind somehow remains?
I would advise you to lay off Atlantis and Akashic Records... they are both total baloney and ripe with misinformation and new age woo bullnanny.
IAO131
[QUOTE=Arckangel;349511]Those of you who don't believe in reincarnation see life as a continuum? SGI Buddhists don't talk about the soul being reborn but the mind hacving a new life. It's all similar to me.
Here's wht I found on Atlantis and Akashic Records.
http://www.occultforums.com/showthread. ... post349514[/QUOTE]
You are born and then you die. Your consciousness arose with theh development of your nervous system and it will pass away when your body disintegrates... just like people with Alzheimers lose their memory and others lose various other cognitive abilities. Reincarnation is a spiritual pipedream and a scare tactic depending on how you come at it - both are false in my opinion. If youre ego can be completely annihilated IN THIS LIFE what would be left of your mind to be reincarnated anyhow? If you poke a hole in your head, you lose consciousness and various functions... and the mind somehow remains?
I would advise you to lay off Atlantis and Akashic Records... they are both total baloney and ripe with misinformation and new age woo bullnanny.
IAO131
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Original post: the spirit!
[QUOTE=IAO131;349644]You are born and then you die. Your consciousness arose with theh development of your nervous system and it will pass away when your body disintegrates... just like people with Alzheimers lose their memory and others lose various other cognitive abilities. Reincarnation is a spiritual pipedream and a scare tactic depending on how you come at it - both are false in my opinion. If youre ego can be completely annihilated IN THIS LIFE what would be left of your mind to be reincarnated anyhow?[/QUOTE]
1) observing people not being able to remember anything and become seemingly weak mentally is not proof that their mind is going anywhere.
2)the goal in buddhism is to break free from reincarnation. why then is it a pipedream?
3)there is nothing even close to evidence that your ego can be annihilated. unless you've found a way to measure the ego. which, of course you haven't.
...i have no idea what happens when we die. neither do you.
[QUOTE=IAO131;349644]You are born and then you die. Your consciousness arose with theh development of your nervous system and it will pass away when your body disintegrates... just like people with Alzheimers lose their memory and others lose various other cognitive abilities. Reincarnation is a spiritual pipedream and a scare tactic depending on how you come at it - both are false in my opinion. If youre ego can be completely annihilated IN THIS LIFE what would be left of your mind to be reincarnated anyhow?[/QUOTE]
1) observing people not being able to remember anything and become seemingly weak mentally is not proof that their mind is going anywhere.
2)the goal in buddhism is to break free from reincarnation. why then is it a pipedream?
3)there is nothing even close to evidence that your ego can be annihilated. unless you've found a way to measure the ego. which, of course you haven't.
...i have no idea what happens when we die. neither do you.
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Are Hindu Mantras Better?
Original post: Rin Daemoko
[QUOTE=the spirit!;349694]2)the goal in buddhism is to break free from rebirth. why then is it a pipedream?[/QUOTE]
Fixed your typo.
[QUOTE=the spirit!;349694]3)there is nothing even close to evidence that your ego can be annihilated. unless you've found a way to measure the ego. which, of course you haven't.[/QUOTE]
Yes there is. It's called a stroke. Seriously. People who suffer massive strokes in the left hemisphere of their brains have their egos annihilated. If you recover from it, you are a completely different person afterward.
[QUOTE=the spirit!;349694]2)the goal in buddhism is to break free from rebirth. why then is it a pipedream?[/QUOTE]
Fixed your typo.
[QUOTE=the spirit!;349694]3)there is nothing even close to evidence that your ego can be annihilated. unless you've found a way to measure the ego. which, of course you haven't.[/QUOTE]
Yes there is. It's called a stroke. Seriously. People who suffer massive strokes in the left hemisphere of their brains have their egos annihilated. If you recover from it, you are a completely different person afterward.
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Are Hindu Mantras Better?
Original post: splendorsolis
[QUOTE=IAO131;349349]Uh... Sure...
They are words. They all have relatively the same effect - stilling/concentrating the mind.
IAO131[/QUOTE]
If you're operating on the most outward level, yes.
[QUOTE=IAO131;349349]Uh... Sure...
They are words. They all have relatively the same effect - stilling/concentrating the mind.
IAO131[/QUOTE]
If you're operating on the most outward level, yes.
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Are Hindu Mantras Better?
Original post: splendorsolis
[QUOTE=IAO131;349644]If youre ego can be completely annihilated IN THIS LIFE what would be left of your mind to be reincarnated anyhow? If you poke a hole in your head, you lose consciousness and various functions... and the mind somehow remains?
IAO131[/QUOTE]
You can purify your perception of what you are, but you'll never be anything other than that, and that comes back again and again, to put it simply.
[QUOTE=IAO131;349644]If youre ego can be completely annihilated IN THIS LIFE what would be left of your mind to be reincarnated anyhow? If you poke a hole in your head, you lose consciousness and various functions... and the mind somehow remains?
IAO131[/QUOTE]
You can purify your perception of what you are, but you'll never be anything other than that, and that comes back again and again, to put it simply.
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Original post: IAO131
Someone above suggested strokes. I suggest you read a basic book on neurology, look up what a 'lesion' is. I know what happens when we live, and if its possible to lose your memory entirely, your sense of self entirely, while in this life from brain damage that doesnt leave much to the imagination about what happens when your brain deteriorates into dust in death. I will admit Im not absolutely 100% sure but Im not 100% sure about gravity, Q.M., or anything else - its simply the scientific/empirical way to allow for new evidence to come along. That being said, all the evidence points this way just like any other scientific theory. All you have is your insufferable whining.
Yes, in this life. When your body whithers away it cannot. I have personally witnessed others functions dwindle away and "I" have witnessed this I dwindle away all in this life. And this seems to be justificatoin that the I doesnt survive life quite often, let alone death.
...And your justification is...? Superstition?
IAO131
Are you aware of that little discipline called neuroscience? Come back when you know what you are talking about.the spirit!;349694 wrote:1) observing people not being able to remember anything and become seemingly weak mentally is not proof that their mind is going anywhere.
Because reincarnation doesn't exist. Its also about getting away from 'this world.' By the way you are only really talking about Theravada. Mahayana wants to come back and be all Bodhisattva like and Vajrayana acknowledges Samsara = Nirvana.2)the goal in buddhism is to break free from reincarnation. why then is it a pipedream?
Again, come back when you know what the hell you are talking about.3)there is nothing even close to evidence that your ego can be annihilated. unless you've found a way to measure the ego. which, of course you haven't.
...i have no idea what happens when we die. neither do you.
Someone above suggested strokes. I suggest you read a basic book on neurology, look up what a 'lesion' is. I know what happens when we live, and if its possible to lose your memory entirely, your sense of self entirely, while in this life from brain damage that doesnt leave much to the imagination about what happens when your brain deteriorates into dust in death. I will admit Im not absolutely 100% sure but Im not 100% sure about gravity, Q.M., or anything else - its simply the scientific/empirical way to allow for new evidence to come along. That being said, all the evidence points this way just like any other scientific theory. All you have is your insufferable whining.
And if you're operating on the 'internal' level theyre different? Ive used both and they both have the same effect. The words themselves may imply different symbolism/metaphysics but their use & result is identical.splendorsolis;349827 wrote:You can purify your perception of what you are, but you'll never be anything other than that, and that comes back again and again, to put it simply.
Yes, in this life. When your body whithers away it cannot. I have personally witnessed others functions dwindle away and "I" have witnessed this I dwindle away all in this life. And this seems to be justificatoin that the I doesnt survive life quite often, let alone death.
...And your justification is...? Superstition?
IAO131
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Are Hindu Mantras Better?
Original post: splendorsolis
[QUOTE=IAO131;349854]
Yes, in this life. When your body whithers away it cannot. I have personally witnessed others functions dwindle away and "I" have witnessed this I dwindle away all in this life. And this seems to be justificatoin that the I doesnt survive life quite often, let alone death.
...And your justification is...? Superstition?
IAO131[/QUOTE]
No. Rather, everything from personal experiences to the ways to tell how ph'owa has worked, to the thousands of pages of sutras, tantras, and commentaries answering your question, though which, of course, you have not bothered to read.
[QUOTE=IAO131;349854]
Yes, in this life. When your body whithers away it cannot. I have personally witnessed others functions dwindle away and "I" have witnessed this I dwindle away all in this life. And this seems to be justificatoin that the I doesnt survive life quite often, let alone death.
...And your justification is...? Superstition?
IAO131[/QUOTE]
No. Rather, everything from personal experiences to the ways to tell how ph'owa has worked, to the thousands of pages of sutras, tantras, and commentaries answering your question, though which, of course, you have not bothered to read.
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Original post: splendorsolis
"Unto them from whose eyes the veil of life hath fallen may there be granted the accomplishment of their true Wills; whether they will absorption in the Infinite, or to be united with their chosen and preferred, or to be in contemplation, or to be at peace, or to achieve the labour and heroism of incarnation on this planet or another, or in any Star, or aught else, unto them may there be granted the accomplishment of their wills; yea, the accomplishment of their wills. AUMGN. AUMGN. AUMGN."
Vile superstition!
"Unto them from whose eyes the veil of life hath fallen may there be granted the accomplishment of their true Wills; whether they will absorption in the Infinite, or to be united with their chosen and preferred, or to be in contemplation, or to be at peace, or to achieve the labour and heroism of incarnation on this planet or another, or in any Star, or aught else, unto them may there be granted the accomplishment of their wills; yea, the accomplishment of their wills. AUMGN. AUMGN. AUMGN."
Vile superstition!
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Original post: splendorsolis
[QUOTE=Arckangel;349331]From what I know, Buddhist mantras bring up bad karma so you experience and expiate it. But the experience might be tragic. I've BEEN there...
[/QUOTE]
In general (and this is what I'm told by people who have practiced buddhist and hindu tantra), the Buddhist deities are a great deal more powerful - one comparison I've heard is that of the difference between riding a vespa and riding a tiger. :-p
If you want something purificatory to do, you can try this: link edited out
Obviously, as with any effective practice, things will come up, but they should be manageable, and you can't have a blessing until you keep the angel pinned down for several hours and all that. :-p
This practice has been released for the use of anyone who cares to do it, which is not the case with the other pdf document on the site.
[QUOTE=Arckangel;349331]From what I know, Buddhist mantras bring up bad karma so you experience and expiate it. But the experience might be tragic. I've BEEN there...
[/QUOTE]
In general (and this is what I'm told by people who have practiced buddhist and hindu tantra), the Buddhist deities are a great deal more powerful - one comparison I've heard is that of the difference between riding a vespa and riding a tiger. :-p
If you want something purificatory to do, you can try this: link edited out
Obviously, as with any effective practice, things will come up, but they should be manageable, and you can't have a blessing until you keep the angel pinned down for several hours and all that. :-p
This practice has been released for the use of anyone who cares to do it, which is not the case with the other pdf document on the site.
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Are Hindu Mantras Better?
Original post: the spirit!
IAO131:
your narcissism frightens me. i could come into OF with a degree in physics or any other science, but i wouldn't consider myself to have the mental high ground. that's just not proper reasoning.
neuroscience is based on observations of how mental activity is linked to the neurons in the brain. these observations have not been linked to pure thought and consciousness in any way. there is no way to measure this. it is the same problem with AI. how do you know if the machine is really thinking? same; how do you know how the person who's had a stroke, or has alzheimers is thinking? you didn't really know how they were thinking in the first place. coversation can't accomplish this task. neither can observation of the brain.
sure, you can link damage of the brain to how a person outwardly acts. but you can't measure the mind, and therefor you have no idea where it is or what it is doing.
that you would compare your understanding of what happens to the mind when a person dies to "what goes up must come down" is obviously flawed. you're linking the presence of a person's actions in physical reality to something not known to be related.
that is all i'm getting at.... but i must say that the fact that you got so upset at the suggestion that you might be wrong is frightening.
....................................................................................................
Rin Daemoko:
correcting the way i write just because you agree with IAO131 is seriously bad manners for a mod.
....................................................................................................
P.S. i don't like name calling and fighting. if you would like to explain your stance, then please do so. i don't assume that you're stupid. extend me the same courtesy.
IAO131:
your narcissism frightens me. i could come into OF with a degree in physics or any other science, but i wouldn't consider myself to have the mental high ground. that's just not proper reasoning.
neuroscience is based on observations of how mental activity is linked to the neurons in the brain. these observations have not been linked to pure thought and consciousness in any way. there is no way to measure this. it is the same problem with AI. how do you know if the machine is really thinking? same; how do you know how the person who's had a stroke, or has alzheimers is thinking? you didn't really know how they were thinking in the first place. coversation can't accomplish this task. neither can observation of the brain.
sure, you can link damage of the brain to how a person outwardly acts. but you can't measure the mind, and therefor you have no idea where it is or what it is doing.
that you would compare your understanding of what happens to the mind when a person dies to "what goes up must come down" is obviously flawed. you're linking the presence of a person's actions in physical reality to something not known to be related.
that is all i'm getting at.... but i must say that the fact that you got so upset at the suggestion that you might be wrong is frightening.
....................................................................................................
Rin Daemoko:
correcting the way i write just because you agree with IAO131 is seriously bad manners for a mod.
....................................................................................................
P.S. i don't like name calling and fighting. if you would like to explain your stance, then please do so. i don't assume that you're stupid. extend me the same courtesy.
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Are Hindu Mantras Better?
Original post: Rin Daemoko
[QUOTE=the spirit!;349949]correcting the way i write just because you agree with IAO131 is seriously bad manners for a mod.[/QUOTE]
In case you're serious: In your quote you talked about the goal in Buddhism as being the escape from reincarnation, in my reply I changed reincarnation with rebirth as Buddhist philosophy rejects the idea of reincarnation (along with the idea of the soul).
[QUOTE=the spirit!;349949]correcting the way i write just because you agree with IAO131 is seriously bad manners for a mod.[/QUOTE]
In case you're serious: In your quote you talked about the goal in Buddhism as being the escape from reincarnation, in my reply I changed reincarnation with rebirth as Buddhist philosophy rejects the idea of reincarnation (along with the idea of the soul).
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Are Hindu Mantras Better?
Original post: the spirit!
i was a buddhist my entire childhood Rin... i know. it's just specifics. the existence of a soul is the only real difference, and the soul was really just the best way to convey the idea in the first place.
"in case you're serious"
why are you trying to antagonize things when i'm trying to have a healthy exchange of ideas?
bad...manners..for...a....mod..
i was a buddhist my entire childhood Rin... i know. it's just specifics. the existence of a soul is the only real difference, and the soul was really just the best way to convey the idea in the first place.
"in case you're serious"
why are you trying to antagonize things when i'm trying to have a healthy exchange of ideas?
bad...manners..for...a....mod..
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Are Hindu Mantras Better?
Original post: IAO131
There might be thousands of pages of sutras and tantras but that proves nothing. I have read a LOT of sutras and a LOT of tantras which you, of course, have no idea about and makes you look like an ass making such baseless assumptions. That Bible sure is long but does that mean its true because theres a lot of pages? Because people repeated other people for a long time? No, no it does not.
Reincarnation is superstition whether Crowley says it or old Buddhist people. I completely disagree with Crowley on his notions of reincarnation. The Book of the Law itself says, "I give unimaginable joys on earth: certainty, not faith, while in life, upon death; peace unutterable, rest, ecstasy; nor do I demand aught in sacrifice." (I:58) and "Now let it be understood: If the body of the King dissolve, he shall remain in pure ecstasy for ever. " (II:21).
IAO131
Personal experiences? Of what? Past lives? That is not evidence at all, first of all, and secondly I can give you a pretty good explanation of why that would happen based on your current bodily functioning... You would have to invoke supernatural whatnot with things surviving death.splendorsolis;349913 wrote:No. Rather, everything from personal experiences to the ways to tell how ph'owa has worked, to the thousands of pages of sutras, tantras, and commentaries answering your question, though which, of course, you have not bothered to read.
There might be thousands of pages of sutras and tantras but that proves nothing. I have read a LOT of sutras and a LOT of tantras which you, of course, have no idea about and makes you look like an ass making such baseless assumptions. That Bible sure is long but does that mean its true because theres a lot of pages? Because people repeated other people for a long time? No, no it does not.
Reincarnation is superstition whether Crowley says it or old Buddhist people. I completely disagree with Crowley on his notions of reincarnation. The Book of the Law itself says, "I give unimaginable joys on earth: certainty, not faith, while in life, upon death; peace unutterable, rest, ecstasy; nor do I demand aught in sacrifice." (I:58) and "Now let it be understood: If the body of the King dissolve, he shall remain in pure ecstasy for ever. " (II:21).
Your lack of coherency frightens me. Why did you write this later: "P.S. i don't like name calling and fighting. if you would like to explain your stance, then please do so. i don't assume that you're stupid. extend me the same courtesy."?? Stop complaining about bad manners when you have none to begin with.the spirit!;349949 wrote:IAO131:
your narcissism frightens me.
No one ever said I had the mental high ground - that is you projecting onto me. By the way, having a degree in physics would probably help you and a bunch of other people just because its rigorous method in experiments.i could come into OF with a degree in physics or any other science, but i wouldn't consider myself to have the mental high ground. that's just not proper reasoning.
Do you know what you're talking about? They can test things in and out though I know where you're going with this. If you destroy one area, you lose speech comprehension. If you destroy another area you destroy speech production. If you destroy one area you lose the ability to form new long term memories. IF you destroy another area, you lose spatial manipulation abilities. If you destroy one area, you lose your ability to distinguish your body from your environment, etc. etc. etc. Thats all Im talking about.neuroscience is based on observations of how mental activity is linked to the neurons in the brain. these observations have not been linked to pure thought and consciousness in any way.
Do you have a degree in psychology or neuroscience? just wondering.there is no way to measure this. it is the same problem with AI. how do you know if the machine is really thinking? same; how do you know how the person who's had a stroke, or has alzheimers is thinking? you didn't really know how they were thinking in the first place. coversation can't accomplish this task. neither can observation of the brain.
And therefore... reincarnation exists? And therefore... Hindu mantras are better? Where exactly are you going with this.sure, you can link damage of the brain to how a person outwardly acts. but you can't measure the mind, and therefor you have no idea where it is or what it is doing.
The cognitive functions of your brain are directly related to your mental capacities. It would be tiresome to list the amount of studies. You can sap someones brain and cause them to see images, you can zap someones brain and they will feel a presence, you can zap someones brain and they have an out of body experience. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about though.that you would compare your understanding of what happens to the mind when a person dies to "what goes up must come down" is obviously flawed. you're linking the presence of a person's actions in physical reality to something not known to be related.
Where exactly did I get upset? The amount of projection in your posts is the frightening thing.that is all i'm getting at.... but i must say that the fact that you got so upset at the suggestion that you might be wrong is frightening.
Where did (s)he do that? You are paranoid and/or jumping to conclusions. (S)he changed it from reincarnation to rebirth. Again, it had NOTHING to do with agreeing with me... although you enjoy saying others have 'bad manners' when you have none at all and make false accusations. :eh: And you want people to respect you 'the same'? Fine - Is that quote above paranoia, can you not read very well, or are you just in a bad mood?Rin Daemoko:
correcting the way i write just because you agree with IAO131 is seriously bad manners for a mod.
Well I think you are narcissistic. Is that not name calling? Therefore I extend you the same you have granted me and say you have a problem of judging whether another is upset online, you have no idea what kind of studies there are (obviously) linking destruction of brain function or temporary paralysis thereof to deficits in cognitive abilities. Are you frightened that you might be wrong?P.S. i don't like name calling and fighting. if you would like to explain your stance, then please do so. i don't assume that you're stupid. extend me the same courtesy.
IAO131
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Are Hindu Mantras Better?
Original post: Dionesia La Maga
Testy . . .
From what I know, Buddhist mantras bring up bad karma so you experience and expiate it. But the experience might be tragic. I've BEEN there...
In general (and this is what I'm told by people who have practiced buddhist and hindu tantra), the Buddhist deities are a great deal more powerful - one comparison I've heard is that of the difference between riding a vespa and riding a tiger. :-p
Mantras do not bring up bad karma. Doing certain practices (specifically Tantric Hindu and Buddhist practices) brings out subconscious conflicts that must be resolved. This IS what the practice is meant to do. They personify these things as deities and what not and call it "riding the tiger" and some folks who dabble with this stuff and don't really know what they are doing go crazy or have latent psychiatric disorders unleashed or have "spiritual emergency crises." If you want, you can explain it through spiritual mummery (the agamas or sutras--the tantras mostly give you the how, not the why) or you can indeed explain it mechanistically through neuroscience. --and yes, every aspect of thought, emotion, and activity can and virtually has been mapped out by neuroscientific method. Furthermore, if a neurological problem develops such as damage to certain parts of the brain because of stroke, traumatic brain injury, Alzheimer disease or some other form of dementia, etc. the personality and memory can radically change and can be wiped out. What does this say about consciousness? For some it perpetuates the hair-pulling about what consciousness really is. For others, it shows that consciousness is a physiological function.
Testy . . .
From what I know, Buddhist mantras bring up bad karma so you experience and expiate it. But the experience might be tragic. I've BEEN there...
In general (and this is what I'm told by people who have practiced buddhist and hindu tantra), the Buddhist deities are a great deal more powerful - one comparison I've heard is that of the difference between riding a vespa and riding a tiger. :-p
Mantras do not bring up bad karma. Doing certain practices (specifically Tantric Hindu and Buddhist practices) brings out subconscious conflicts that must be resolved. This IS what the practice is meant to do. They personify these things as deities and what not and call it "riding the tiger" and some folks who dabble with this stuff and don't really know what they are doing go crazy or have latent psychiatric disorders unleashed or have "spiritual emergency crises." If you want, you can explain it through spiritual mummery (the agamas or sutras--the tantras mostly give you the how, not the why) or you can indeed explain it mechanistically through neuroscience. --and yes, every aspect of thought, emotion, and activity can and virtually has been mapped out by neuroscientific method. Furthermore, if a neurological problem develops such as damage to certain parts of the brain because of stroke, traumatic brain injury, Alzheimer disease or some other form of dementia, etc. the personality and memory can radically change and can be wiped out. What does this say about consciousness? For some it perpetuates the hair-pulling about what consciousness really is. For others, it shows that consciousness is a physiological function.
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Are Hindu Mantras Better?
Original post: IAO131
:drop:[QUOTE=Dionesia La Maga;350087]Testy . . .
From what I know, Buddhist mantras bring up bad karma so you experience and expiate it. But the experience might be tragic. I've BEEN there...
In general (and this is what I'm told by people who have practiced buddhist and hindu tantra), the Buddhist deities are a great deal more powerful - one comparison I've heard is that of the difference between riding a vespa and riding a tiger. :-p
Mantras do not bring up bad karma. Doing certain practices (specifically Tantric Hindu and Buddhist practices) brings out subconscious conflicts that must be resolved. This IS what the practice is meant to do. They personify these things as deities and what not and call it "riding the tiger" and some folks who dabble with this stuff and don't really know what they are doing go crazy or have latent psychiatric disorders unleashed or have "spiritual emergency crises." If you want, you can explain it through spiritual mummery (the agamas or sutras--the tantras mostly give you the how, not the why) or you can indeed explain it mechanistically through neuroscience. --and yes, every aspect of thought, emotion, and activity can and virtually has been mapped out by neuroscientific method. Furthermore, if a neurological problem develops such as damage to certain parts of the brain because of stroke, traumatic brain injury, Alzheimer disease or some other form of dementia, etc. the personality and memory can radically change and can be wiped out. What does this say about consciousness? For some it perpetuates the hair-pulling about what consciousness really is. For others, it shows that consciousness is a physiological function.[/QUOTE]
!
I do concur.
IAO131
:drop:[QUOTE=Dionesia La Maga;350087]Testy . . .
From what I know, Buddhist mantras bring up bad karma so you experience and expiate it. But the experience might be tragic. I've BEEN there...
In general (and this is what I'm told by people who have practiced buddhist and hindu tantra), the Buddhist deities are a great deal more powerful - one comparison I've heard is that of the difference between riding a vespa and riding a tiger. :-p
Mantras do not bring up bad karma. Doing certain practices (specifically Tantric Hindu and Buddhist practices) brings out subconscious conflicts that must be resolved. This IS what the practice is meant to do. They personify these things as deities and what not and call it "riding the tiger" and some folks who dabble with this stuff and don't really know what they are doing go crazy or have latent psychiatric disorders unleashed or have "spiritual emergency crises." If you want, you can explain it through spiritual mummery (the agamas or sutras--the tantras mostly give you the how, not the why) or you can indeed explain it mechanistically through neuroscience. --and yes, every aspect of thought, emotion, and activity can and virtually has been mapped out by neuroscientific method. Furthermore, if a neurological problem develops such as damage to certain parts of the brain because of stroke, traumatic brain injury, Alzheimer disease or some other form of dementia, etc. the personality and memory can radically change and can be wiped out. What does this say about consciousness? For some it perpetuates the hair-pulling about what consciousness really is. For others, it shows that consciousness is a physiological function.[/QUOTE]
!I do concur.
IAO131
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Are Hindu Mantras Better?
Original post: splendorsolis
I'm not saying if you'd read all that, then you'd agree with me. I'm making a much less controversial point - that if you'd read all that, you'd be able to argue over the mahayana buddhist explanation of rebirth, rather than asking about it.
As for the body of the King dissolving, well, very few are actually kings. And as for the peace unutterable offered, well, very few people take her up on that offer. :-p
In general, this physicalization of everything is silly. Sure, brain injury is an obscuration that causes one's perception of intrinsically pure and empty consciousness to become even more limited than it is in a normal mundane state, but physicality is the "last" level of emanation. Perhaps dragging everything down to earth can have its uses, but I can't see what they are when doing so only serves to narrow your field of vision!
I'm not saying if you'd read all that, then you'd agree with me. I'm making a much less controversial point - that if you'd read all that, you'd be able to argue over the mahayana buddhist explanation of rebirth, rather than asking about it.
As for the body of the King dissolving, well, very few are actually kings. And as for the peace unutterable offered, well, very few people take her up on that offer. :-p
In general, this physicalization of everything is silly. Sure, brain injury is an obscuration that causes one's perception of intrinsically pure and empty consciousness to become even more limited than it is in a normal mundane state, but physicality is the "last" level of emanation. Perhaps dragging everything down to earth can have its uses, but I can't see what they are when doing so only serves to narrow your field of vision!
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Are Hindu Mantras Better?
Original post: the spirit!
IAO131:
my accusations of narcissism are based on the fact that you keep saying "do you know anything about neuroscience" when it is obviously your field of interest. it's like you think it explains everything, and if i don't know ins and outs of every part, then i can't speak on the basic tenets without being tossed aside, or insulted. but, fact is there's plenty of fields that could try and claim the same position of authority in these arguments. so, that you would claim that authority, i think, suggests that you think quite a lot of yourself. but i'm completely willing to agree that you are not a narcissist if you stop using half your posts to point out little flaws in the way i write, and keep saying "you don't know what you're talking about".
what i said to Rin is based on the fact that he dedicated an entire post to just agreeing with you, and that isn't the first time i've seen him do that. that's reason enough, is it not?
anyhow i realize i was impolite which obviously added to you not taking anything i said seriously. in fact i realize i'm being impolite with the above part of my post. i am simply not above being inclined to defend myself for no other reason then someone i don't know, and who doesn't know me, insulted my intelligence. but i'm done, and if you insult me again i will not retaliate or explain myself. it's of no use to either of us.
i'm not afraid to be wrong. i don't believe anything in the first place. your idea of how things work fits just fine with me. i'm just interested in the holes.
so back to my point: if you can't measure what is called mind, or even tell if it exists in others, then how can you know where it is or what it is doing? i don't see how observing the changes, or even taking the words of a person does this. i'm aware of the experiments you were talking about, and the question still remains. it is a philosophical question, i suppose i should have said in the beginning. and it's one that i don't think neuroscience can answer. this is why i don't believe i need a degree in neuroscience to be able to ask the question. i feel a science has the duty to answer any philosophical question that confronts it. i'd be interested to hear what you think of that too.
the most common answer would of course be Turing's. that if the machine(i use this because the question applies to both human and machine) can carry on a conversation
with you, and make you think it is intelligent, then it is. this though would seem to be a mechanism for categorization and not an answer.
think of the time we could have saved if i had just asked these questions in a non-confrontational way. the blame is mine. i know.
IAO131:
my accusations of narcissism are based on the fact that you keep saying "do you know anything about neuroscience" when it is obviously your field of interest. it's like you think it explains everything, and if i don't know ins and outs of every part, then i can't speak on the basic tenets without being tossed aside, or insulted. but, fact is there's plenty of fields that could try and claim the same position of authority in these arguments. so, that you would claim that authority, i think, suggests that you think quite a lot of yourself. but i'm completely willing to agree that you are not a narcissist if you stop using half your posts to point out little flaws in the way i write, and keep saying "you don't know what you're talking about".
what i said to Rin is based on the fact that he dedicated an entire post to just agreeing with you, and that isn't the first time i've seen him do that. that's reason enough, is it not?
anyhow i realize i was impolite which obviously added to you not taking anything i said seriously. in fact i realize i'm being impolite with the above part of my post. i am simply not above being inclined to defend myself for no other reason then someone i don't know, and who doesn't know me, insulted my intelligence. but i'm done, and if you insult me again i will not retaliate or explain myself. it's of no use to either of us.
i'm not afraid to be wrong. i don't believe anything in the first place. your idea of how things work fits just fine with me. i'm just interested in the holes.
so back to my point: if you can't measure what is called mind, or even tell if it exists in others, then how can you know where it is or what it is doing? i don't see how observing the changes, or even taking the words of a person does this. i'm aware of the experiments you were talking about, and the question still remains. it is a philosophical question, i suppose i should have said in the beginning. and it's one that i don't think neuroscience can answer. this is why i don't believe i need a degree in neuroscience to be able to ask the question. i feel a science has the duty to answer any philosophical question that confronts it. i'd be interested to hear what you think of that too.
the most common answer would of course be Turing's. that if the machine(i use this because the question applies to both human and machine) can carry on a conversation
with you, and make you think it is intelligent, then it is. this though would seem to be a mechanism for categorization and not an answer.
think of the time we could have saved if i had just asked these questions in a non-confrontational way. the blame is mine. i know.