[Meditation] Anger Arising

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[Meditation] Anger Arising

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Original post: Rin Daemoko

A few years ago someone I used to converse with used to freely interpret some of my dreams. I never asked for him to do so, he just did it out of kindness. One thing he told me repeatedly was that I was angry. I always dismissed it because I rarely ever felt angry, and no matter how much I searched for anger in my mind, I could only find tranquility.

After years of meditation practice, I suddenly find that my high tolerance for things that easily bother most people is almost gone. I'm angry almost all the time. Little things that may annoy others throw me into a fit of rage. After today at home and at work, I feel like I've gone so deep into anger that I'm actually experiencing a new emotion that I'm at a loss to name or describe. It's uncomfortable, I want it to go away before I do something stupid.

The thing is, luckily I've been exposed to some very good teachers (through their writing) and I know to stick with meditation because sooner or later I will uproot this anger in its entirety. It may be that I never saw the anger before, but meditation began to wear away the surface of my mind to expose it, and now that I'm getting down to its roots I can see it is vast.

This anger feels so much bigger than I am, and it's such a surprise to find. I don't know where it came from, or how it got there. I don't have any memory whatsoever of ever repressing so much anger.

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[Meditation] Anger Arising

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Original post: StarfireRhythm

I've recently had the same thing happen! I was always the same way too. Very calm, very tolerant, known for my patience with people and difficult situations.

After being initiated, I found all this GUNK rising up, and much of it was rage. Also, when working to connect with higher selves / light energies, I found myself so furious I was shaking and seeing spots. Crazy!

A friend of mine who's gone through similar things recommended a couple of helpful tips. I don't know if they'd be any good for you but -

- Don't attach to what triggered the anger. Just BE angry.
- Find a way to let it move out. Get a pillow or a sleeping bag that you can hit furiously (ideally somewhere you can yell if you have to) and when the anger triggers, just LET IT MOVE YOU. Then let it go.
- Consider if you have an inner image / expectation that you live up to. Do you consider yourself the 'happy' one? The 'calm' one? Do you gain something by repressing your natural annoyances? Are you accustomed to repressing your responses to allow other people more 'room'? Express yourself when dealing with other people. Assert your boundaries firmly. Be angry if it's warranted.

Meditation is all well and necessary, but we're physical too :)

Hope it works out for you.

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[Meditation] Anger Arising

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Original post: Draginvry

[QUOTE=Rin Daemoko;336174]
After years of meditation practice, I suddenly find that my high tolerance for things that easily bother most people is almost gone.[/QUOTE]

That's because you wanted to be angry the whole time, but you denied it to yourself.

I don't blame you. Sometimes I get pissed the heck off. People are judgmental, ignorant, moronic, callous, greedy, selfish bastards. Sometimes I wonder how ANYBODY can relate to anybody else.

Just throw a Fit. There is actually something called a Fit, designed to be thrown for such occasions. Or you can punch a rag doll. That helps. When it is over, you will achieve the much more enlightened state of mind which I call "Not Giving A Damn"

Once you achieve the "Not Giving A Damn" phase, you can then progress further into the "The World Isn't As Bad As I Thought It Was" phase and then to the "The World Is Funny" phase, and then to the most holy enlightened "What The Hell Am I Doing Here In The First Place" phase.

Right now I spend most of my time in the not giving a damn state of mind. I'm looking to increase my understanding further with more meditation.

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[Meditation] Anger Arising

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Original post: Rin Daemoko

This thread has already yielded up some quality wisdom. :)

Last night I sat and I cried for about an hour for no real reason. It was as though something just awful had happened to me. Considering the dream I had the other night, I should've been expecting this. Heh.

[QUOTE=StarfireRhythm;336193]- Don't attach to what triggered the anger. Just BE angry.
- Find a way to let it move out. Get a pillow or a sleeping bag that you can hit furiously (ideally somewhere you can yell if you have to) and when the anger triggers, just LET IT MOVE YOU. Then let it go.
- Consider if you have an inner image / expectation that you live up to. Do you consider yourself the 'happy' one? The 'calm' one? Do you gain something by repressing your natural annoyances? Are you accustomed to repressing your responses to allow other people more 'room'? Express yourself when dealing with other people. Assert your boundaries firmly. Be angry if it's warranted.[/QUOTE]
This is some excellent advice.

I really do have this inner image of myself as being the "rational" one, the one who is unflustered and able to handle everything. So I've set myself up to disallow myself to not be that person. It's something that I never noticed until you suggested it. Thank you :)

I think my major problem is expressing myself. Somehow I feel that expressing myself means intruding on others' personal mental space, if that makes sense. In the same way that it's polite to keep a few feet away from someone when talking to them, instead of being in their face. For some reason I apply the same thing to expressing myself.

[QUOTE=Draginvry;336203]That's because you wanted to be angry the whole time, but you denied it to yourself.

I don't blame you. Sometimes I get pissed the heck off. People are judgmental, ignorant, moronic, callous, greedy, selfish bastards. Sometimes I wonder how ANYBODY can relate to anybody else.

Just throw a Fit. There is actually something called a Fit, designed to be thrown for such occasions. Or you can punch a rag doll. That helps. When it is over, you will achieve the much more enlightened state of mind which I call "Not Giving A Damn"

Once you achieve the "Not Giving A Damn" phase, you can then progress further into the "The World Isn't As Bad As I Thought It Was" phase and then to the "The World Is Funny" phase, and then to the most holy enlightened "What The Hell Am I Doing Here In The First Place" phase.

Right now I spend most of my time in the not giving a damn state of mind. I'm looking to increase my understanding further with more meditation.[/QUOTE]
I read this morning in an article by Pema Chödrön (a Buddhist nun) that the antidote to anger or aggression is patience. Not to act out, not to repress, not to fixate on the object of anger - just to be angry (as Starfire's friend suggested). She has an interesting line of reasoning which includes why patience is a form of total honesty, and that it includes a kind of fearlessness.

I used to think I was a very patient person. Perhaps I wasn't actually very patient, I was just not expressive.

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[Meditation] Anger Arising

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Original post: Anathema_Oracle
I think my major problem is expressing myself. Somehow I feel that expressing myself means intruding on others' personal mental space, if that makes sense. In the same way that it's polite to keep a few feet away from someone when talking to them, instead of being in their face. For some reason I apply the same thing to expressing myself.

I can relate to that problem. Not being 'in someone's face' doesn't always mean you're not intruding on their mental space. I've find for myself, that being passive towards others despite their or my actions and feelings can actually create a feedback of negativity that simmers in that most unproductive of emotions: passive aggression.

I read this morning in an article by Pema Chödrön (a Buddhist nun) that the antidote to anger or aggression is patience. Not to act out, not to repress, not to fixate on the object of anger - just to be angry (as Starfire's friend suggested). She has an interesting line of reasoning which includes why patience is a form of total honesty, and that it includes a kind of fearlessness.


I always enjoy a Pema quote and her succinctness never ceases to amaze me. I guess like meditation practise (which you seem to be doing in a manner that is helpful to you, in the long run anyway) patience is not a passive experience but as filled with mindfulness as any other state.
I used to think I was a very patient person. Perhaps I wasn't actually very patient, I was just not expressive.

Similarly I used to think I was a 'nice' person because I didn't react in an overtly aggressive way to others as I've seen throughout my life. Lately I now know this as duplicity because I wasn't being nice, kind, empathic, generous etc, I was just playing at having these qualities to avoid conflict.

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[Meditation] Anger Arising

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Original post: TransPersonal

Anger is a form of overwhelming energy after all so maybe vigorous physical exercise can help burn some of it out. Usually when my ego is inflated or I'm very angry about something I find it very hard to meditate. In fact meditation seems to pronounce the feelings even more. The only thing that seems to help, even if just a little, is exercise. As someone previously mentioned try to hit a pillow or better yet buy a punching bag if you donâ??t have one already. It might help release some of that anger. I find it easy to mediate even when Iâ??m under the influence of melancholy or loss but never when Iâ??m angry or afraid. Meditation is definitely the ultimate solution to any problem including this samsaric condition altogether. But for the time being people like us would fare better I think using physical exercise to combat anger.

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[Meditation] Anger Arising

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Original post: Darkwater

Fierce rage is one route into the Yggdrasil,the only route I know of.

You drop in as fire,in the fire bit.gosh,I'll need to revisit all this.

Then two more gates/levels to pass before you meet with the Aesir,from memory.

Rage is good,controlled rage.

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[Meditation] Anger Arising

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Original post: Rin Daemoko

[QUOTE=Anathema_Oracle;336238]I can relate to that problem. Not being 'in someone's face' doesn't always mean you're not intruding on their mental space. I've find for myself, that being passive towards others despite their or my actions and feelings can actually create a feedback of negativity that simmers in that most unproductive of emotions: passive aggression.[/QUOTE]
That really does make a lot of sense. Have you been able to find a way to express the way you feel toward others without intruding on their mental space? Or is that just a risk you have to take?

[QUOTE=Anathema_Oracle;336238]Similarly I used to think I was a 'nice' person because I didn't react in an overtly aggressive way to others as I've seen throughout my life. Lately I now know this as duplicity because I wasn't being nice, kind, empathic, generous etc, I was just playing at having these qualities to avoid conflict.[/QUOTE]
That is really interesting, actually. It makes me wonder just how many people honestly believe they are nice, patient people when, in fact, they just produce an absence of negative emotions (through repression or some other method) rather than cultivating the positive qualities you list. That's really something I never thought about before until you laid it out plainly for me to see.

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[Meditation] Anger Arising

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Original post: Rin Daemoko

[QUOTE=TransPersonal;336290]Anger is a form of overwhelming energy after all so maybe vigorous physical exercise can help burn some of it out. Usually when my ego is inflated or I'm very angry about something I find it very hard to meditate. In fact meditation seems to pronounce the feelings even more. The only thing that seems to help, even if just a little, is exercise. As someone previously mentioned try to hit a pillow or better yet buy a punching bag if you donâ??t have one already. It might help release some of that anger. I find it easy to mediate even when Iâ??m under the influence of melancholy or loss but never when Iâ??m angry or afraid. Meditation is definitely the ultimate solution to any problem including this samsaric condition altogether. But for the time being people like us would fare better I think using physical exercise to combat anger.[/QUOTE]
Exercise makes sense to me. Because I'm fascinated by the brain, I know that exercise triggers a release of good neuro-chemicals that affects the way your brain works, and the way your body responds to stimulus. It's not just that exercise is a way to express emotion, it changes what your brain is doing.

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[Meditation] Anger Arising

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Original post: Rin Daemoko

[QUOTE=Darkwater;336302]Rage is good,controlled rage.[/QUOTE]
There's an interesting Buddhist philosophy that basically says that anger without an external object to be angry at can be enlightening. That if you have anger, but you're not angry at something, then that energy can be used to blast away ignorance and mental pollution. I'm glad you brought this up again because I had completely forgotten about it until now. Thank you :)

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[Meditation] Anger Arising

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Original post: Draginvry
Anathema_Oracle;336238 wrote: Similarly I used to think I was a 'nice' person because I didn't react in an overtly aggressive way to others as I've seen throughout my life. Lately I now know this as duplicity because I wasn't being nice, kind, empathic, generous etc, I was just playing at having these qualities to avoid conflict.
You guys might want to read up on Gandhi's ideas of violence, non-violence, and cowardice.

Being passive and "nice" to avoid conflict isn't really being nice, it is only being a coward. It is actually better to be all up in someone's face than it is to let them steamroll you.

You should be "nice" because you have the respect to let someone go their own way. But it is not "nice" to avoid someone or not speak your mind because you are afraid they won't let you go your own way.
Rin wrote:Have you been able to find a way to express the way you feel toward others without intruding on their mental space? Or is that just a risk you have to take?
It is a risk that you take. Even the most loving, caring reply can be perceived as an attack. In fact, it doesn't even matter if you get all up in someone's face, it only matters if they think you are in their face. It's like the comedian Jeff Allen says, "It doesn't matter what I said, it matters what my wife heard me say."

I'll be straightforward with you, Rin. You are a pussy. You've convinced yourself this whole time that you are patient and caring, when in reality you were just afraid to ripple the waters.

My suggestion is to get pissed the hell off for a few months (but more of being angry at yourself, not someone else) and then after it wears off you'll find what patience and love really is. There is an aspect of being meek and humble, but meekness and humbleness is not cowardice. The reason that negotiation and non-violence are effective ways to deal with others is because they have the potential of force. If that potential isn't there, you are like a sniveling chihuahua.

But you don't want to be the sniveling chihuahua. You want to be the gentle great dane. You want to command so much respect and self-confidence that you don't have to snap at every little thing someone does or says. But at the same time, you have to know that you could push someone around if you really wanted to. In fact, there are some rare necesseties where you will need to get up in someone's face, it's almost unavoidable in the types of societies we live in.

But even then, you don't have to get pissed at people. You only have to let them know that they are intruding upon your space. There is nothing wrong with this, all animals define their own personal space and limitations. You have to understand that other people will get offended at you, because they were taught that people aren't supposed to define their space, so they feel indignant because you aren't allowing them to push you around.

The moral of the story: letting people run you over was never a method of enlightenment. It was just cowardice.

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[Meditation] Anger Arising

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Original post: Darkwater

The stronger your will & consciousness the more fury & madness you can handle.Fury & madness naturally induce inspirational thought.

The alert mind & powerful will can channel such fury & madness to get you onto the next world.

Namaste

Andy

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Original post: TransPersonal

[QUOTE=Draginvry;336329]You guys might want to read up on Gandhi's ideas of violence, non-violence, and cowardice.

Being passive and "nice" to avoid conflict isn't really being nice, it is only being a coward. It is actually better to be all up in someone's face than it is to let them steamroll you.

You should be "nice" because you have the respect to let someone go their own way. But it is not "nice" to avoid someone or not speak your mind because you are afraid they won't let you go your own way.
[/QUOTE]


I agree, it's important that we look at our motivations. I think it was Indra Ghandi who said "The prequisite to compassion is courage as otherwise our compassion is nothing but an excuse for weakness". Actually the quote was better said, I just can't remember it now.

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[Meditation] Anger Arising

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Original post: Draginvry

[QUOTE=Darkwater;336334]
The alert mind & powerful will can channel such fury & madness to get you onto the next world.[/QUOTE]

This is true. Raw power can produce just about any magickal effect. The trick is learning to "create" something with it, rather than destroy.

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[Meditation] Anger Arising

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Original post: Darkwater

Strong desire,will & intent(everything is intent) make all things manifest & suddenly the *impossible* becomes very possible.

I'll never becomes ok now I've acheived this I'll........

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[Meditation] Anger Arising

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Original post: simex

I think that if you look deeply, you'll find that each time you get angry, you can trace that anger to some form of attachment. You get angry at people for disagreeing with you, because you're attached to your ego, and consequently your ideas. You get angry at the person who doesn't hold the door open for you, because you're attached to your ego, and fear not being acknowledged, because it may cause your ego to blink out of existence. You get angry at a child for yelling, because you're attached to the silence. You get angry at the rain, because you're attached to the future, and consequently your plans to go golfing.

If you treat your anger like a diagnostic, not only will you not get angry about getting angry, you'll be able to self diagnose those attachments that still need severing. Observe your mind, but don't get upset about it, just observe and learn.

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[Meditation] Anger Arising

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Original post: Draginvry
Strong desire,will & intent(everything is intent) make all things manifest & suddenly the *impossible* becomes very possible
I actually think that the only thing necessary to create is desire. Ritual, practice, method, tools...all of these were only ways of learning how to desire. None of them were ever necessary. If I wanted a mountain to move, I mean if I really wanted a mountain to move, then the mountain would step aside merely by my wanting it to.
simex wrote:Observe your mind, but don't get upset about it, just observe and learn.
IMHO, attachment is the only thing that ever kept anyone from achieving their goals. Attachment is in the form of obsession, force, doubt, fear, hate, judgment...all are merely forms of attachment. The only thing necessary to create magick is to observe it simply, and to observe only your intent.

But what we think we are intending is not what we are intending. It usually means we have attachment. Attachment is merely the resistance of what you want. So although you think you are intending to cast a spell, you are resisting the result the entire time, and your time is wasted yet again.

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[Meditation] Anger Arising

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Original post: Darkwater

If someone disagrees with me I want to understand why>

If a child cries I want to understand why.

If rain upsets me I should be looking to live in a warmer climate.

I have,however,a built in *Pishometer*,if someone is talking pish it will fly off of the scale & still not anger me,heh heh.

Some peoples level of ignorance does infuriate sometimes,only when it can affect me or mine adversely such is opinion presented as facts which are false or misconceived.

Each to their own.If I get angry it is because I want to get angry,nothing more,nothing less.

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[Meditation] Anger Arising

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Original post: DropAndRiver

Wow, this really is a solid thread.

With a rapid cycling variant of bipolar disorder, I know all too well the feeling of being angry/aggressively negative after thinking I've made so much progress. Lately, it seems I take two steps forward with the anticipation of taking another back.

More than anything, I'm glad to hear people say anger is OK. I now do what a few people have already recommended: I focus raw anger (which very seldom is directed at a person, mainly because my moods are very chemical in origin) to clear away the clutter of my life that I once found acceptable.

Here's a little checklist I go through to deal with emotions (of various kinds):

1. What are the conditions

2. What is my emotional state because of it

3. Try to be as objective as possible in determining the true stem of my feeling, versus what my quick reasoning would have me think

4. Is the solution reparable at this very moment

5. If so, work calmly to resolve it with the knowledge that just by doing so I am reducing the intensity of my emotion

6. If not, I focus on what can be done to make my life simpler or get me away from the issue so my neurosis doesn't slaughter me

7. Rinse and repeat until I become Manjushri, Kuan Yin, or Goldfrapp (they are the same being, you must know)

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[Meditation] Anger Arising

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Original post: TransPersonal

[QUOTE=DropAndRiver;339628]
3. Try to be as objective as possible in determining the true stem of my feeling, versus what my quick reasoning would have me think. [/QUOTE]


Great checklist! This one I think is the highlight, afterall our greatest enemy is usually our knee-jerk reactions...

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Original post: Anathema_Oracle
Great checklist! This one I think is the highlight, afterall our greatest enemy is usually our knee-jerk reactions...
They try and teach this in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. The ABCs.

Action-->Consequence---> Belief.

Pretty interesting segue the mind goes on from thought to supposedly 'spontaneous' reactions.

You'd think that it worked the other way round, but for the purposes of introspection, sometime's it's better to work backwards.

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Original post: DropAndRiver

Yeah, that's where the first three items in my checklist come from; CBT is the method of choice of my old psychologist, and we employed it during my episodes to talk me down from whatever extreme I was going through.

Working in reverse is really awesome, too, because you can catch self-sabotaging or negative forecast etc. as it happens and dismiss it. Most of us seem to try to fix our problems by validating unhealthy mindsets to encourage ourselves to fix the issue.

Fixing something for the wrong reason is just re-breaking it.

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