Original post: durki
Tantra is actually holistic in that it encompasses complete gamut of human spiritual endeavour from the crudest exoteric occult techniques to the subtlest meditations, incantations, chantings, visualizations et cetera. Only thing to be kept in mind is that one should choose an enlightened master who is dedicated to upliftment of the others.
Tantric master Osho Rajneesh falls short of my expectations.
Tantra Can Be Dangerous
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Original post: TransPersonal
Osho was a total fraud; his case is one of a person who takes advantage of the tantric dictum that the external behavior does not always indicate the internal state. For example a person can indulge in all the pleasures of the world but remain in a state of detachment internally. Though this is very true, it doesnâ??t require a genius to see that Osho had used that as an excuse for manipulating and using others to get his every whim. Somewhere between the 100th Rolls Royce and all the sex with the female disciples it makes a person wonder...
Osho was a total fraud; his case is one of a person who takes advantage of the tantric dictum that the external behavior does not always indicate the internal state. For example a person can indulge in all the pleasures of the world but remain in a state of detachment internally. Though this is very true, it doesnâ??t require a genius to see that Osho had used that as an excuse for manipulating and using others to get his every whim. Somewhere between the 100th Rolls Royce and all the sex with the female disciples it makes a person wonder...
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Original post: Malamatiyya
Osho seemed capable to achieve his will in this world.
Osho seemed capable to achieve his will in this world.
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Original post: Jenfucius
I think he died from AIDS
I think he died from AIDS
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Original post: Sharandarikali
[QUOTE=TransPersonal;325922]Osho was a total fraud; his case is one of a person who takes advantage of the tantric dictum that the external behavior does not always indicate the internal state. For example a person can indulge in all the pleasures of the world but remain in a state of detachment internally. Though this is very true, it doesnâ??t require a genius to see that Osho had used that as an excuse for manipulating and using others to get his every whim. Somewhere between the 100th Rolls Royce and all the sex with the female disciples it makes a person wonder...[/QUOTE]
Girls and money.
[QUOTE=TransPersonal;325922]Osho was a total fraud; his case is one of a person who takes advantage of the tantric dictum that the external behavior does not always indicate the internal state. For example a person can indulge in all the pleasures of the world but remain in a state of detachment internally. Though this is very true, it doesnâ??t require a genius to see that Osho had used that as an excuse for manipulating and using others to get his every whim. Somewhere between the 100th Rolls Royce and all the sex with the female disciples it makes a person wonder...[/QUOTE]
Girls and money.
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Original post: durki
Osho was a knowledgeable person. He invented many meditations. He was enlightened too. He claimed he was associated with Bodhidharma in his earlier birth. He had awakened many persons. He wrote commentaries on abstruse texts. There were side effects of the practices that he taught in that some of his tantric inventions misfired.
Sharandarikali;334422 wrote:Girls and money.
Osho was a knowledgeable person. He invented many meditations. He was enlightened too. He claimed he was associated with Bodhidharma in his earlier birth. He had awakened many persons. He wrote commentaries on abstruse texts. There were side effects of the practices that he taught in that some of his tantric inventions misfired.
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Original post: Jenfucius
Most cult watch groups have Osho listed as a cult.
Most cult watch groups have Osho listed as a cult.
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Original post: TransPersonal
[QUOTE=durki;334694] Osho was a knowledgeable person. He invented many meditations. He was enlightened too. He claimed he was associated with Bodhidharma in his earlier birth. [/QUOTE]
And there are hundreds of nut jobs around every corner that claim to have been Jesus or one of his disciples in a former life, but how likely is that?
[QUOTE=durki;334694] He had awakened many persons. He wrote commentaries on abstruse texts. There were side effects of the practices that he taught in that some of his tantric inventions misfired. [/QUOTE]
Of course there were side effects and no one but a complete nitwit wouldnâ??t have foreseen them. Osho wasnâ??t a nitwit however; he knew full well what the implications would be of his so called teachings. He merely gave the crowd what they wanted--an easy way out. Take a look at his videos, most if not all his devoted disciples were flower children. In other words: gullible hippies who were going through a not-so-serious phase. These people were looking for someone to say 'you can reach enlightenment without any effort; all you need to do is indulge in simple hedonismâ??. Osho delivered this need and the result was a bunch of self deluded fools having free sex and pseudo meditations.
All that said, sure there were bits of truth in his speeches here and there. But it doesnâ??t require an enlightened sage to utter them; even a conman can regurgitate these words after reading a few books. So I wouldnâ??t suddenly call him enlightened just because he spoke a few good things, look at the bigger picture of you want to get an accurate assessment.
We need more Swami Ramas and Yoganandas and not so many Oshos and Sai Babas, lol.
[QUOTE=durki;334694] Osho was a knowledgeable person. He invented many meditations. He was enlightened too. He claimed he was associated with Bodhidharma in his earlier birth. [/QUOTE]
And there are hundreds of nut jobs around every corner that claim to have been Jesus or one of his disciples in a former life, but how likely is that?
[QUOTE=durki;334694] He had awakened many persons. He wrote commentaries on abstruse texts. There were side effects of the practices that he taught in that some of his tantric inventions misfired. [/QUOTE]
Of course there were side effects and no one but a complete nitwit wouldnâ??t have foreseen them. Osho wasnâ??t a nitwit however; he knew full well what the implications would be of his so called teachings. He merely gave the crowd what they wanted--an easy way out. Take a look at his videos, most if not all his devoted disciples were flower children. In other words: gullible hippies who were going through a not-so-serious phase. These people were looking for someone to say 'you can reach enlightenment without any effort; all you need to do is indulge in simple hedonismâ??. Osho delivered this need and the result was a bunch of self deluded fools having free sex and pseudo meditations.
All that said, sure there were bits of truth in his speeches here and there. But it doesnâ??t require an enlightened sage to utter them; even a conman can regurgitate these words after reading a few books. So I wouldnâ??t suddenly call him enlightened just because he spoke a few good things, look at the bigger picture of you want to get an accurate assessment.
We need more Swami Ramas and Yoganandas and not so many Oshos and Sai Babas, lol.
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Original post: corbin_israfael
True Enlightenment is being able to be surrounded by all the sense pleasures of this world yet not partaking of them, knowing them to be false and pale imitations of Sat-Chid-Ananda brought on by Bhakti and Yoga (Union with God).
There was once a King who sought a Sage to teach him the Way. Many came to try and fill this position. One day a low caste man sent his son to the Palace of this King. For many day's and night's they attempted to arouse the boys senses and yet he only sat there partaking of none of it. After a week the boy had neither ate nor drank of the feasts the King held for him or the other gifts he showered upon him. The King fell to his knee's and begged to be the boys Disciple. This particular boy was the Incarnation of a Sage that came once more into the Flesh so he knew that this Reality was False so he knew the Joys of the Flesh and World were nothing compared to the Joy of Bhakti for the Lord.
The Mark of a True Yogi is to live in the World yet not Exist in it. Partaking of Sense Pleasures only distracts one from the Goal.
We only need to remember the life of the Buddha to see this. He gave up his Kingdom to search for the Meaning of Life. This World is simply a Dream Upon the Mind of God.
True Enlightenment is being able to be surrounded by all the sense pleasures of this world yet not partaking of them, knowing them to be false and pale imitations of Sat-Chid-Ananda brought on by Bhakti and Yoga (Union with God).
There was once a King who sought a Sage to teach him the Way. Many came to try and fill this position. One day a low caste man sent his son to the Palace of this King. For many day's and night's they attempted to arouse the boys senses and yet he only sat there partaking of none of it. After a week the boy had neither ate nor drank of the feasts the King held for him or the other gifts he showered upon him. The King fell to his knee's and begged to be the boys Disciple. This particular boy was the Incarnation of a Sage that came once more into the Flesh so he knew that this Reality was False so he knew the Joys of the Flesh and World were nothing compared to the Joy of Bhakti for the Lord.
The Mark of a True Yogi is to live in the World yet not Exist in it. Partaking of Sense Pleasures only distracts one from the Goal.
We only need to remember the life of the Buddha to see this. He gave up his Kingdom to search for the Meaning of Life. This World is simply a Dream Upon the Mind of God.
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Original post: durki
Yogananda taught kriya yoga under the oath of secrecy.
Inspite of my own reservations about them, I would say Osho & Sai Baba have made positive contributions.
Swami Rama was a womanizer. Temptation of white american flesh was too much for him to resist. He fathered children at his Himalayan Institute.TransPersonal;335141 wrote: We need more Swami Ramas and Yoganandas and not so many Oshos and Sai Babas, lol.
Yogananda taught kriya yoga under the oath of secrecy.
Inspite of my own reservations about them, I would say Osho & Sai Baba have made positive contributions.
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Original post: corbin_israfael
[QUOTE=durki;335200]Swami Rama was a womanizer. Temptation of white american flesh was too much for him to resist. He fathered children at his Himalayan Institute.
Yogananda taught kriya yoga under the oath of secrecy.
Inspite of my own reservations about them, I would say Osho & Sai Baba have made positive contributions.[/QUOTE]I think them to be False Sadhu and Sadhaka who have done nothing but profit off the foolish and weak of spirit.
What we really need are more Ramakrisha's and Vivekananda's. Just one more of these type of great men would benefit the entire world simply by existing. These Great Souls have done more for the world then we could imagine.
[QUOTE=durki;335200]Swami Rama was a womanizer. Temptation of white american flesh was too much for him to resist. He fathered children at his Himalayan Institute.
Yogananda taught kriya yoga under the oath of secrecy.
Inspite of my own reservations about them, I would say Osho & Sai Baba have made positive contributions.[/QUOTE]I think them to be False Sadhu and Sadhaka who have done nothing but profit off the foolish and weak of spirit.
What we really need are more Ramakrisha's and Vivekananda's. Just one more of these type of great men would benefit the entire world simply by existing. These Great Souls have done more for the world then we could imagine.
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Original post: TransPersonal
[QUOTE=corbin_israfael;335185]True Enlightenment is being able to be surrounded by all the sense pleasures of this world yet not partaking of them, knowing them to be false and pale imitations of Sat-Chid-Ananda brought on by Bhakti and Yoga (Union with God).[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=corbin_israfael;335185]The Mark of a True Yogi is to live in the World yet not Exist in it. Partaking of Sense Pleasures only distracts one from the Goal.[/QUOTE]
Hey Corbin,
I would say that a truer form of enlightenment would be being able to *partake* of pleasure without being attached to them as opposed to simply not desiring them. There are many stories illustrating tantric masters who are found in a very disagreeable position by a lay man who suddenly thinks â??this is no great master, only a hedonistâ?? and the next moment they are walking through walls or on waterâ?? just to banish the doubt of the other. If all things are inherently pure and divine then notions of good and bad, pure and ugly all become meaningless. And the masters do this to show that all things are one and the same. The are equally affected when they meditate or copulate-itâ??s the same for them. And they are attached to neither. This however is a very high state of attainment. Ignoring sense pleasures because they are not real implies still a dualistic way of thinking and enlightenment is all about monism-leaving nothing out and incorporating it all.
All that been said, sadhakaâ??s--at least non advanced ones should stay away from sense pleasures and other distractions until they develop some degree of self control and detachment. Until they do that any indulgence they engage in wouldnâ??t be about shattering delusions of polarity but about simple hedonism. Masters know this and even those of the left handed path makes sure the disciples first masters their lower instincts before they are allowed to follow the tantric disciplines.
[QUOTE=corbin_israfael;335185]True Enlightenment is being able to be surrounded by all the sense pleasures of this world yet not partaking of them, knowing them to be false and pale imitations of Sat-Chid-Ananda brought on by Bhakti and Yoga (Union with God).[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=corbin_israfael;335185]The Mark of a True Yogi is to live in the World yet not Exist in it. Partaking of Sense Pleasures only distracts one from the Goal.[/QUOTE]
Hey Corbin,
I would say that a truer form of enlightenment would be being able to *partake* of pleasure without being attached to them as opposed to simply not desiring them. There are many stories illustrating tantric masters who are found in a very disagreeable position by a lay man who suddenly thinks â??this is no great master, only a hedonistâ?? and the next moment they are walking through walls or on waterâ?? just to banish the doubt of the other. If all things are inherently pure and divine then notions of good and bad, pure and ugly all become meaningless. And the masters do this to show that all things are one and the same. The are equally affected when they meditate or copulate-itâ??s the same for them. And they are attached to neither. This however is a very high state of attainment. Ignoring sense pleasures because they are not real implies still a dualistic way of thinking and enlightenment is all about monism-leaving nothing out and incorporating it all.
All that been said, sadhakaâ??s--at least non advanced ones should stay away from sense pleasures and other distractions until they develop some degree of self control and detachment. Until they do that any indulgence they engage in wouldnâ??t be about shattering delusions of polarity but about simple hedonism. Masters know this and even those of the left handed path makes sure the disciples first masters their lower instincts before they are allowed to follow the tantric disciplines.
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Original post: corbin_israfael
[QUOTE=TransPersonal;335224]Hey Corbin,
I would say that a truer form of enlightenment would be being able to *partake* of pleasure without being attached to them as opposed to simply not desiring them. There are many stories illustrating tantric masters who are found in a very disagreeable position by a lay man who suddenly thinks â??this is no great master, only a hedonistâ?? and the next moment they are walking through walls or on waterâ?? just to banish the doubt of the other. If all things are inherently pure and divine then notions of good and bad, pure and ugly all become meaningless. And the masters do this to show that all things are one and the same. The are equally affected when they meditate or copulate-itâ??s the same for them. And they are attached to neither. This however is a very high state of attainment. Ignoring sense pleasures because they are not real implies still a dualistic way of thinking and enlightenment is all about monism-leaving nothing out and incorporating it all.
All that been said, sadhakaâ??s--at least non advanced ones should stay away from sense pleasures and other distractions until they develop some degree of self control and detachment. Until they do that any indulgence they engage in wouldnâ??t be about shattering delusions of polarity but about simple hedonism. Masters know this and even those of the left handed path makes sure the disciples first masters their lower instincts before they are allowed to follow the tantric disciplines.[/QUOTE]Yes but to fully explain the complexities of such thought takes much understanding. To escape Dualism one should abstain from sense pleasures yet once one has escaped this and sees beyond it then they can lessen those restrictions but not before.
In the beginning one should be strict in their practice so as to have no distractions and work only towards the Goal. Once they advance such restrictions are not as needed.
[QUOTE=TransPersonal;335224]Hey Corbin,
I would say that a truer form of enlightenment would be being able to *partake* of pleasure without being attached to them as opposed to simply not desiring them. There are many stories illustrating tantric masters who are found in a very disagreeable position by a lay man who suddenly thinks â??this is no great master, only a hedonistâ?? and the next moment they are walking through walls or on waterâ?? just to banish the doubt of the other. If all things are inherently pure and divine then notions of good and bad, pure and ugly all become meaningless. And the masters do this to show that all things are one and the same. The are equally affected when they meditate or copulate-itâ??s the same for them. And they are attached to neither. This however is a very high state of attainment. Ignoring sense pleasures because they are not real implies still a dualistic way of thinking and enlightenment is all about monism-leaving nothing out and incorporating it all.
All that been said, sadhakaâ??s--at least non advanced ones should stay away from sense pleasures and other distractions until they develop some degree of self control and detachment. Until they do that any indulgence they engage in wouldnâ??t be about shattering delusions of polarity but about simple hedonism. Masters know this and even those of the left handed path makes sure the disciples first masters their lower instincts before they are allowed to follow the tantric disciplines.[/QUOTE]Yes but to fully explain the complexities of such thought takes much understanding. To escape Dualism one should abstain from sense pleasures yet once one has escaped this and sees beyond it then they can lessen those restrictions but not before.
In the beginning one should be strict in their practice so as to have no distractions and work only towards the Goal. Once they advance such restrictions are not as needed.
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Original post: TransPersonal
Agreed, the problem arises when people who aren't ready pretends to be. They don't realize that there's an "order of operations" involved. But then again there's those who hold extreme opinions on both sides, and extremes are never a good thing...
Agreed, the problem arises when people who aren't ready pretends to be. They don't realize that there's an "order of operations" involved. But then again there's those who hold extreme opinions on both sides, and extremes are never a good thing...
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Original post: corbin_israfael
[QUOTE=TransPersonal;335448]Agreed, the problem arises when people who aren't ready pretends to be. They don't realize that there's an "order of operations" involved. But then again there's those who hold extreme opinions on both sides, and extremes are never a good thing...[/QUOTE]I honestly hope your first remark is not geared toward me as I pretend nothing.
[QUOTE=TransPersonal;335448]Agreed, the problem arises when people who aren't ready pretends to be. They don't realize that there's an "order of operations" involved. But then again there's those who hold extreme opinions on both sides, and extremes are never a good thing...[/QUOTE]I honestly hope your first remark is not geared toward me as I pretend nothing.
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Original post: TransPersonal
Not at all actually, I was talking in general. For example people like the hippies that followed Osho and so on.
Not at all actually, I was talking in general. For example people like the hippies that followed Osho and so on.
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Original post: durki
Though an enlightened & advanced yogi, Sri Krishna used to copulate with the ladies. And he was a great master and a wonderful spiritual teacher at that.
Though an enlightened & advanced yogi, Sri Krishna used to copulate with the ladies. And he was a great master and a wonderful spiritual teacher at that.
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Original post: corbin_israfael
[QUOTE=durki;335858]Though an enlightened & advanced yogi, Sri Krishna used to copulate with the ladies. And he was a great master and a wonderful spiritual teacher at that.[/QUOTE]However one must examine the nature of Krishna as an Incarnation of Vishnu. Vishnu act's as the Cosmic Preserver and so Metaphorically his promiscuity is fitting.
It is all a matter of point of veiw really. Such extremes are illustrated in the practices of a proper Shiva Yogi and those of the Aghori. I think this is the most extreme example of differences in a sect. Proper Yogis abstain from vices while the Aghoric (a Tantric Sect) indulge in such things as "Tat Tvam Asi" or Thou art That ie Everything is God and thus Pure in Nature. To Transcend Dualistic Thought they ritualitically engage in what people think as impure to purify themselves. A proper traditional Yogi however would neveer do such.
It is merely a matter of Perception and Opinion. I say neither is right or wrong. To set oneself up as one who judges Truth is truely Foolish indeed. I do however have my own opinions.....
[QUOTE=durki;335858]Though an enlightened & advanced yogi, Sri Krishna used to copulate with the ladies. And he was a great master and a wonderful spiritual teacher at that.[/QUOTE]However one must examine the nature of Krishna as an Incarnation of Vishnu. Vishnu act's as the Cosmic Preserver and so Metaphorically his promiscuity is fitting.
It is all a matter of point of veiw really. Such extremes are illustrated in the practices of a proper Shiva Yogi and those of the Aghori. I think this is the most extreme example of differences in a sect. Proper Yogis abstain from vices while the Aghoric (a Tantric Sect) indulge in such things as "Tat Tvam Asi" or Thou art That ie Everything is God and thus Pure in Nature. To Transcend Dualistic Thought they ritualitically engage in what people think as impure to purify themselves. A proper traditional Yogi however would neveer do such.
It is merely a matter of Perception and Opinion. I say neither is right or wrong. To set oneself up as one who judges Truth is truely Foolish indeed. I do however have my own opinions.....
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Original post: Darkwater
I was a phallic moon pass through a pubic V of stars last night.
I like the Aghori in the truth,wisdom,reality sexual concept or route to your divinity.On all levels from the stars down(& up).
Closer to the heart,of course,just sometimes you gotta let off some steam.
You have a lovely message Corbin,very well presented in the face of some*snipers*.
More strength to you brother.
N'maha-te.
I was a phallic moon pass through a pubic V of stars last night.
I like the Aghori in the truth,wisdom,reality sexual concept or route to your divinity.On all levels from the stars down(& up).
Closer to the heart,of course,just sometimes you gotta let off some steam.
You have a lovely message Corbin,very well presented in the face of some*snipers*.
More strength to you brother.
N'maha-te.
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Original post: TransPersonal
Now who wants to see something ABSOLUTELY CRAZY:
http://www.jackassworld.com/videos/1581767/210478
Warning: donâ??t watch this clip on a full stomach or if you get easily upset!!!
Now who wants to see something ABSOLUTELY CRAZY:
http://www.jackassworld.com/videos/1581767/210478
Warning: donâ??t watch this clip on a full stomach or if you get easily upset!!!
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Original post: Darkwater
Some folk really suck donkey dick.
Some folk really suck donkey dick.
Tantra Can Be Dangerous
Tantra originated from the incestuous relationship that hindu god Kama had with Rati. Because tantric texts were in sanskrit and sanskrit was a divine language, so people thought tantra to be great. But evil roots of tantra can't be camouflaged by sophisticated verses.
soham at this site = durki at occultforums.com
Re: Tantra Can Be Dangerous
You can kill yourself with a knife or kill another. Tantra is a tool and in the schools of tantric buddhism I am familiar with there is a clear distinction between different levels of teaching for different intellects. Tantra isn't for those of lesser intellects simple as that. Well at least the real deal isn't but you can meander around osho or collect as many books you don't actually use as you like. A bomb recipe in print is unlikely to explode.
Re: Tantra Can Be Dangerous
There is no lack of malevolent entities in this world, the deathrealm, nor anywhere else, and as most are apex predators, such beings will "take advantage of your vulnerability" if given any opportunity. Whether you are doing Tantric practices, playing with ouija, ghost hunting, etc., means nothing. Think you're safe in Church? Think again.Occult Forum Archive wrote:Original post: durki
What I had meant was that there are evil entities who take advantage of your vulnerability during tantric practices. So you should be aware of it and take precautions.
If your activity opens you in any way to influence, the opportunity is there.
Re: Tantra Can Be Dangerous
Jatismarah "A bomb recipe in print is unlikely to explode"- man what a classic, I am going to keep that one.
In my experience and from what i have read. When aperson has an Orgasm 'he has a little death'. If you can pick up on this you are half- but only half- way to understanding Tantra.
MY experiences tell me that you will NOT achieve illumination through Tantra- that has to be done through hard work. When a person has an Orgasm (O) the psyche experiences a 'breaking open', exeriences a little death, the finite experiences the infinte.(quiphoth). If you can understand this, you are doing well. I agree with Jat, Tantra is only for higher level occultists- and Priests at that.
There are many crackpots out there who think that sex will bring them all sorts of spiritual gifts, but unless you are already in contact with those levels of the subconscious- it is a waste of time9 or is it just a wank? heeh). At the point of O the soul breaks open and the infinate pours through, Prana or actually Pranu. Many visions can be had, however in my case they are vsions of the Abyss and beyound.
Read the works of Willhelm Reich he will explain the fundamentals.
I note you havn't mentioned Crowley yet.
Q
In my experience and from what i have read. When aperson has an Orgasm 'he has a little death'. If you can pick up on this you are half- but only half- way to understanding Tantra.
MY experiences tell me that you will NOT achieve illumination through Tantra- that has to be done through hard work. When a person has an Orgasm (O) the psyche experiences a 'breaking open', exeriences a little death, the finite experiences the infinte.(quiphoth). If you can understand this, you are doing well. I agree with Jat, Tantra is only for higher level occultists- and Priests at that.
There are many crackpots out there who think that sex will bring them all sorts of spiritual gifts, but unless you are already in contact with those levels of the subconscious- it is a waste of time9 or is it just a wank? heeh). At the point of O the soul breaks open and the infinate pours through, Prana or actually Pranu. Many visions can be had, however in my case they are vsions of the Abyss and beyound.
Read the works of Willhelm Reich he will explain the fundamentals.
I note you havn't mentioned Crowley yet.
Q