Choosing between Theistic and LaVeyan/Atheistic

[DarkSchneider]

I've noticed that there are a few handful of threads discussing the benefits and the negative aspects of both Theistic and Atheistic Satanism. I'm not sure exactly where I stand but I'll try my best to describe my situation. The current paradigm I'm interested in is LaVeyan Satanism, though I don't necessarily consider myself a "satanist" persay. I'm also fond of Chaos Magick, so I'm fully aware about paradigm shifts and etc.

I'm not a card carrying member and, after my experiences on a website called SIN (Satanic International Network) I can't say I'd want to associate with them. The users were rather rude for the sake of being rude and the moderators were just unpleasant. I know I shouldn't lump everyone into one bunch, suggesting every Satanist is like that but I think I'm getting off track here.

The point is, I wonder if it's worth exploring Theistic Satanism. I'm closer to an occult dilettante than a full blown practitioner, based on personal values, but I wish to become the most skillful magician I can be. LaVeyan philosophy appeals to me because of promoting the self as the highest power there is and setting personal passions as a priority, not being subservient to any gods or powers that be. HOWEVER, I do actually like the idea of a literal force to work with, and the concept of demonolatory sounds like fun. I'm as willing to serve as I am to rule.

Maybe incorporating elements of both brands may work in my favor? What are your thoughts?

[Ramscha]

Maybe incorporating elements of both brands may work in my favor? What are your thoughts?

Well, the combination of satanic elements and chaos magick is not that uncommon in my area and from what I have seen and experienced myself it can work out pretty well. Just keep in mind that the dieties and concepts you will be working with are mostly not the kind of patient and mysterium teaching letargic gods and spirits, but a rather archaic bunch of zynic and difficult to handle entities (just think about the ideas they actually represent, I guess you get what I mean?). Which branch you choose (theistic, LaVeyan, or whatever else) is up to you! Cannot help you with that.

This can be a pretty rough start, if you go into it but don't have worked much with yourself yet because that will mean that they will break you. Ideas like "destruction, freedom, and dominance" are very potent in the ways of satanism as are the deities and constructs representing it.
It can be as excieting as it can be frightening though, but if you are made of soft wood, it can become rather hard if you are not used to any kind of basic magick teachings and techniques (empty the mind, visualization techniques and stuff like that).

Satanism was born in a fast and aggressiv society where mostly the bigger ate the smaller ones. This society has become even more aggressive and faster since then and this again one will expereince when working with the concepts of satanism, whatever sub-category one chooses. "The system reflects its roots as well as its branches", so to say.

So, to come to an end. I know what I wrote could be mostly seen as negative warnings, but this has its reasons. A philosophy which circles around the idea of beeing your own god (or serving a deity representing this idea in a slightly changed manner called "Satan/Lucifer/FSM/....") is coupled to a very dynamic magickal current/system in order to archive this. Therefor, many anchors and pillars of ones current world might get crushed in order to get you into this dynamic current.

For the beginning of course you will start in the flat waters, but as always in magick: "No dish is half cooked!"

Hope this helps you a little bit for your start
Ramscha

[Sypheara]

This is going to be a highly personal decision, so im going to remain reserved on the subject.The post above is quite a decent bit of advice.

My own opinion is that laveyan Satanism is nothing more than a money grabbing exercise devoid of anything that could help develop anyones personal spiritual worth. If you look into who lavey actually was and his personality, you would realise he would sell anything if people would buy it. Add egoism and the satanic cool rebel exterior and alot of disaffected people will hand over money for membership and for your books. Arguably, the rituals could be adapted to function but make no sense in an athiestic context. An athiest that believes in no gods that then works with them is a complete contradiction even if you think they are man made thoughtforms.

There are a few examples out there with thiestic luciferian and satsnic concepts. Temple of the black light are most talked about but their books are rare. Im lucky in having all of them and I can say even as a non practioner technically I treat its spirits with respect and have got alot of useful material from thrm. Below ive linked an archive of their former website which is decently substantial and you probably make your own pdf from it if you wished.

https://archive.org/stream/LeftHandPath ... 2_djvu.txt

Other temples such as the temple of the ascending flame also exist and have free materials. There is also a book floating arou d the internet called liber sitra ahra. Ive only read bits of it but its mostly solid from my quick glance, but id take that suggestion with a pinch of salt as I didntfi ish it.

Hope that helps.

[Desecrated]

It's always worth exploring.
Life would be horrible boring if you didn't try new things from time to time.

[DarkSchneider]

Hello Ramscha, I suppose I should gain a better grasp of the basics before moving into Satanism directly. I guess I'm over-eager to learn but not so good at putting in the time to practice the techniques I really need, not to mention reinforcing my character. I would say that the way you described the ideas of "destruction, freedom and dominance" suits my tastes. I used to practice ceremonial magick (Key of Solomon works and Judaic magick), but I got turned off by the amounts of tedious steps and preparations required to proceed, not to mention the whole "white magic only" attitude, which doesn't suit me at all in the slightest. Slaughtering animals for "white" magick, does not appeal to me, but then again, neither would I do it for "black" magick.

Hello Sypheara, I'm starting to agree with you that LaVeyan Satanism is seeming quite empty. What I do want is spiritual growth, but to avoid the hazards of hypocrisy, self righteousness, dogma and such. I don't like the LaVeyan community, as I've mentioned above, but I can't help but admire certain concepts in the Satanic Bible. What I find empty about it is actually what you mentioned about the contradictory nature of LaVey's system, using an atheistic context for occultism. Most people I've talked to about the chapters about magic in the Satanic Bible ridicule it and disregard it all together.

Also, I know posts have been made about the O9A, that they might be a hoax, crazy, etc, but how are their materials and books?

P.S. Desecrated, I agree with you. I will keep exploring and experimenting.

[RoseRed]

I guess I'm over-eager to learn but not so good at putting in the time to practice the techniques I really need, not to mention reinforcing my character.

You don't need a paradigm to work on character traits you'd like to build upon.

You also don't need to be a Satanist to practice Humanism.

[Chrode]

My experience in many Satanic forums have shown that Satanism unfortunately attracts a lot of intolerant people. I think that's sad because that Satanism is a religion that would turn to more intellectual people.

I would say to you that Satanism is not based on any scripture, and therefore forms you your beliefs. Atheistic Satanism is not necessarily laveyan. The dark force of nature is simply a modern interpretation of the ancient deities. It is not a doctrine in itself.

Theistic Satanism is simply the belief that the deities are real and nothing else.