Alternatives to Levay's Satanism

[owlzee]

I honestly don't like Anton Levay, and his "Satanic Bible" it doesn't jell with me. All his rules and dogma about not harming animals and the 9 satanic sins, I think it's just total drivel.

Slaughtering animals and people has been at the core of black magick since anything of the sort was first conceived. At least we can perform mock sacrifices, since actual sacrifice is likely to have you put in jail.

It seems to me that the satanism is white magick in black robes.

I believe true black magick is about being unhindered by all notions of morality and ethical behavior, that is not to say that someone should be ignorant of the consequences, but simply that ones mind is open and capable being seated in positions of normal discomfort, such as celebrating death and destruction, just as Kali dances upon the funeral pile.

I wouldn't harm animals/children or other people, but if someone does so in order to create the magical effect of ridding oneself of their moral conscious, so that they may be better liars and cheats, to make themselves feel powerful or to invoke fear in others, then of course that is a true black-magick ritual.

To me black magick is about understanding the magickal effects of such evil actions, I genuinely want to understand what, why, how and where of these rituals through atheistic rationalism.

So I what groups are there that are really about black magick? Temple of Set appears to not be so hung up on the codes of morality imposed on CoS members.

What about thelema and Aliester Crowley? Is he a true Black Magician or just another boy scout in black robes like Levay? Thelama's "Love is the Law" sounds contrary to the principles of Chaos and Black Magic, I don't need laws and if I want to embrace hatred instead of love then it's my personal trip and I don't need to be told otherwise.

[Hadit]

The Order of Nine Angles also lacks the higher reasoning abilities for morality.

[owlzee]

The Order of Nine Angles also lacks the higher reasoning abilities for morality.

I suppose I'm overthinking this. The rhetoric surrounding an occult organization means very little in contrast to the relationships you will or will not form with the people involved.

It seems to me that if you need to tell somebody how to behave then it's already too late for them, then again maybe the moral codes of the Church of Satan are there to keep wierdos, pedos, rapists and animal killers out of the organization.

On one hand I think it is important to view the magickal rituals conducted by criminal organizations such as the Triads and the Mafia, or that used in wartime with the sacrifice of ones enemy's women and children as truly dark ritual magick. At the same time I wouldn't want to be near people who do such things.

[Entity]

Crowley explicitly denied being a black magician, and LaVey made no distinction between white and black magick.

[Hydraxian]

Well, if you want to be a Satanist, then you need to be able to defend your definition of Satan and Satanism.

You'll probably be met by the very obvious question: If you want power and success in your life, why not call yourself an atheist?

A good friend of mine is a Satanist in the Church of Satan and he lives that lifestyle and suits it very well. I myself belong to the other camp more interested in the occult. The only safe thing I can recommend here on a forum in relation to that is ordinary paganism/witchcraft with a strong veneration of Cain and Lilith.

The ONA is getting some academic interest, but I advice you to thread carefully into that area.

[Sweetgum]

Hi Owlzee

As I understand it, you have identified that Black Magic and Satanism are not the same
You have noticed that Anton Levay expanded Satanism to incorporate Black Magic
and you have come to the view that "true black magic is about being unhindered by all notions of morality and ethical behaviour"
You also have the view that "a true black-magick ritual" may involve "harming animals" etc
You connect 'Black Magic' with evil
And you would like to find a group of like-minded people to associate with

In common understanding, 'magick' is taken to mean ceremonial magick
Originally this meant a ritual that bound a spirit to your service
If you commanded the spirit to do good things it was called White Magick and if you commanded it to do bad things it was called Black Magick
There is nothing more to 'Black Magic' than that

I note that you say "a true black-magick ritual" may involve "harming animals" and that you connect 'Black Magic' with evil
What you are referring to is the 'Black Mass', which was originally quite different from Black Magic
Although witches have always existed, the Christian church invented the idea of an organised religion of witchcraft and invented the idea that that religion performed the Black Mass
People who hated Christianity thought that whole idea was great, and took it up
Essentially a Black Mass is the Christian Holy Communion in reverse

The idea of an organised religion of witchcraft never really got going until Wicca and Paganism took it up
In up-dating the 'religion' they abandoned the Black Mass
That left a gap in the market which Satanism then filled

Anton Levay published The Satanic Bible in 1969 in an attempt to re-launch Satanism as an organised religion
Levay promoted 3 ideas that absolutely are ideas that Satan holds. These are :-
1. The virtues of exploring one's own nature and instincts
2. The promotion of hedonism
3. The belief that God is not an external entity, but rather something that each person creates as a projection of his or her own personality—a benevolent and stabilizing force in his or her life
The blunt fact is that nothing any human has ever created is perfect. This means that if you want to join with any group there will always be some shit you don't agree with, and you just have to eat it and get on with the job

Your idea that "true black magic is about being unhindered by all notions of morality and ethical behaviour" is right in Satan's ball-park
You will not find anyone, other than Satanists,who will go along with this
Your view that "a true black-magick ritual" may involve "harming animals" etc will bring you to the attention of the police, which means that whenever anything of that sort happens in your area you're going to get pulled in for questioning
Levay correctly identified that no organised religion is possible if people find themselves under surveillance by the state as soon as they join it

You need to wrap your head around the fact that what people say and what they do are rarely the same
There is no organised religion of criminals outside of novels and films
You and two mates is not a religion, and you would never get more than that to go along with your ideas
If you are serious about finding a group of like-minded people to associate with, look for a group that ticks your main boxes, then knuckle down and do what you're told, like the rest of us

[ErebusNamtar]

Your idea that "true black magic is about being unhindered by all notions of morality and ethical behaviour" is right in Satan's ball-park
You will not find anyone, other than Satanists,who will go along with this

Those that actually believe in deities would, yes. Satanists however (LaVeyan as some would call them) do not all believe in or use magic. It's something they apply only if it has value to them. The term black magic would make them fall of their chairs laughing.
Morals and ethics are very important to a Satanist. It's just that they don't adhere to morality and ethics that don't make sense to them personally. They really are their own God. I learned so much from LaVey I can honestly say he has been a huge and positive influence in my life even though I do not believe I could call myself a Satanist.

True black magic is just a term that has very different meanings to whomever you might ask. You will find a lot of diversity. You are your own God so you make the definitions. Be warned there are other Gods out there though. I'm a vengeful God when I see others harm non-human animals. [twisted]
I've been following this thread and wanted to see where this went first...let's just say I'm personally disturbed if somebody thinks not harming animals or not being able to sacrifice humans is 'drivel'.