Demons

[Venefica]

They are energy, yes, but they also have minds, destroying their minds would be a very effective way to kill them.

Yes however their minds are energy to, and we are back to the whole difficulty in destroying Energy problem.

Also energy or matter, a body is a body, they have bodies, and these bodies have some vital functions.

No Spirit I have ever encountered have had a body in the sense we would normally describe one. They might take on form, but that form is just a representation of their mind and Energy and destroyed the form might banish the Spirit but will do no lasting harm. It is like disrupting a puff of smoke given a particular shape, the shape might disappear, but the smoke can just reform into a new shape.

[Rikoshi]

You don't have to destroy energy, merely distort it.

Science time: Energy has wavelength, amplitude, and frequency (and some other stuff). You increase one thing or change something, it becomes something else. So, boosting or lowering energy in a spirit may change its form. Similarly, a spirit is very likely a complex arrangement of energy if it has parts, purposes, etc. With that in mind, just as a human being stops living when our heart stops, a spirit may be rendered 'dead enough' by screwing up it's arrangement of energy.

Don't tell me spirits can't be done lasting harm- I've done plenty of harm to a particular spirit, and I doubt it's gotten it's act back together. It was some major hurt.

As for harming minds, minds are harmed all the time- psychological damage is definitely possible. So, if you attack it on an energy level, you may be able to make it 'dead enough'- if it comes back in a thousand years it'll be way too late for it to really make much difference on your current life.

Still, we have not heard from the OP in a while- we need a little more information to really cover this topic, since a demon can mean all sorts of thing.

[Venefica]

Yes you can distort Energy, however it have a way to find back together again, especially Spirits. Also yes you could probably cause a Spirit psychological damage, however with most Spirits this would be much harder than on a human being. Humans have very fragile minds, we easily get doubts or shocks which lead to psychological problems, We are full of doubt, worries, ambitions, dreams and desires for such damage to leach onto. A Spirit have a, I do not want to say simple mind for most of them are far from stupid, let us go with perfect mind. They are exactly what they are and do not wish anything else. Off course there are different kinds of Spirits, some are more complex. But for example the Spirit of a place, is just the Spirit of that place, nothing else really matters, there are far fewer things for psycological damage to latch onto.

[Rikoshi]

I think I'm going to have to just disagree with you here Venefica- spirits are far from perfect minded and their relative durability varies. It's just like the real world and the dangers we face- sometimes it's an insect, sometimes a mouse, sometimes a deadly dog or cat, other times an armed soldier, and occasionally, an elephant or tank.

All of those things can be overcome. Human beings are but spirits in shells, and when we awaken to that, we can do battle spiritually as well as anything else. I'm not speaking abstractly, I have personal experience with it- it's a discredit to our own souls to say mankind cannot face these things as equals, cannot defeat them. There is an ecology to spirits as surely as there is an ecology to life- few of them are utterly indestructible.

[Venefica]

With perfect I mean more focused, a human mind is full of things, we are not just one thing. Most Spirits are just one thing. They are a Water Elemental, and then water and what water stands for is all they are, or they are a Spirit made of wrath and then anger is all they are. Off course there are more complex Spirits like the souls of the dead, but in my experience Spirits are exclusively one thing, and that is a form of perfection in the way a rose is perfect, it is just one thing but is that thing very well. And I never said that Spirits can not be defeated, I said they are hard to completely destroy, just as it is relatively easy to destroy a human body, but to destroy our souls, that is allot more difficult.

[Uriel666]

I may be going way off base here, but the best protection a person can have from "demons" is to erect a powerful enough wall around yourself that you don't have to worry about them to begin with. If, by some means it is penetrated, then you should look inside yourself to find out where the breach occurred, and seal it!!! I have encountered them in physical form a couple of times, but most encounters with "demons" will be on an internal level. When on an external level, then basic self defense is a prerequisite, and on an internal level, there is but the ancient Chinese axiom, KNOW THYSELF!

[Venefica]

I think that demons often get their power from the pepole they meet fearing them, just like with a dog, if you are not afraid of them, most of the time they will not harm you. This is not true for all off course. There are Spiritual beings which can and will harm you and the greatest bull I ever hear is the standard new agey drivel that nothing Spiritual will ever harm you, however most Spirits will not harm you and most beings one would call demons have no interest in human beings unless we give them a reason to show interest, like with fearing them.

[Seth]

I've always thought that when you fear something you give it some of your power. I believe that if you can find a way to not fear, you'll find that nothing in your reality will show up that you could have the potential of fearing.

Henceforth, fear not demons, and you will have no demons to fear.

The only time I faced a demon, I didn't destroy it I simply transmuted it.

[Venefica]

If you feel any strong emotion about something then you empower that. However it is not quite as easy as that. Not fearing something will reduce it's power over you, that however do not mean that there is nothing that can hurt you. Like for example, if you fear an aggressive dog the chances are greater that it will attack you, but not fearing it do not make you immune to attack.

[Seth]

That's correct. However, that's not quite what I was trying to say. If you don't fear the dog, it probably won't attack you, henceforth you won't have anything to fear.

I've always been a follower of the idea that our reality is a reflection of ourselves. How we feel about something is reflected in our reality. Changing the way your perceptions and ideas and feelings IMO will have an effect on your reality by shifting it to reflect your new ideas.

Of course, this is just my opinion.

[Venefica]

I agree that our perceptions to a very great degree define our reality, and that by changing our perceptions that we can change reality itself. The question however is, do one live in a completely separate reality which is only defined by oneself, or do other's perception affect and change your reality as well as your perception theirs?

[wingsdefeu]

Both, actually

[Venefica]

I would agree with that. Which in turn means that those who have ill will against you are not necessarily deterred if you do not fear them. However it is a bit like they teach women in self defense classes. If you look confident and look like someone who will put up a fight or at least scream your lungs out if attacked then while you are not safe, then you stand a much less chance of being attacked as a possible attacker will usually go somewhere else to find a easier target. If you look easily intimidated through that you are a much more tempting target. Most demons will not single out on occultist, they will be after whoever they can get whatever they want from. A target who do not look easily intimidated is just more effort and there are many other targets out there.

[Seth]

Hmm. Yes I would agree.

Also, lately i've been feeling that reality is rather fluid and can compensate for everyone's beliefs. Like a liquid being poured from one glass to another, it changes shape to compensate. Its rather amazing.

[Venefica]

I believe that reality is flexible, that is how magick work. I think that every belief changes reality and that nothing really is true. That real or unreal is just in the mind. I however also believe that as everyone change reality with their minds, getting it exactly the way one want it can at times be a little complicated.

[Gflame]

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[Flagg]

Hi, I can see this topic hasn't been touched in a couple months, but I figured I would throw a couple sentences in.

Demons, or any kind of spirits really, are just energy with a pattern , no? Frankly, if you want to destroy a demon, what you have to do is disrupt the pattern. I am not exactly sure on how you would go about doing that, but the reward would literally be a mass of unused energy.

And I don't buy into the idea that, once the pattern is disrupted, the energy will be "malevolent" or "tainted". It's just energy. Read more about that and Direct Magic at The Library of Knowledge (quick google search).

[Stukov]

Well Flagg, I would kind of echo what Venefica said above, but far as my personal experiences most "demons" are simply misunderstood. There are great deal of spirits that people use on this board that certain people in the world would call demons, which I most certainly wouldn't call "evil" by any means. In fact many of them are considered on the "light" side of the paradigm rather than the dark. However, even when dealing with some of the "darker" demons that exist, I've personally found them to be actually respectable. I find they respect power, they respect those who are able to discern the minute details of the shadow rather than those who are blinded by the light and can only see the "darkness". While some would even consider themselves to be "evil", I see alot of stuff they have done as more classically "mischievous", but of course with a darker sense of humor.

If you see it from their prospective, how funny can it be to see people going banana crazy simply because the "demon" is messing with them. To them it also shows their weakness and even if there is sometimes a "male" figure who the challenges the "demon", which the demon will accept, they don't (most of the time) stand a chance because they don't understand whats going on. Then there is also the "demons" lie, and in my experience it is in fact the complete opposite. They tell such pinpoint accurate truths. People actually end up deceiving themselves, by hearing what they want to hear (or don't want to hear), or by getting lost in implications. But, I also don't consider jokes and sarcasm to be lies (neither do they).

And while there are certainly much more sinister beings that exist which don't exactly share any sense of humor and are driven by things most people wouldn't consider "good". I would say that those are far fewer in number than most people would realize and also they aren't typically interested in the minute details like individual people. They be more akin to tsunami that is trying to bring down a mountain rather than a wave drowning a person.

Like others have said you can't "kill" what isn't "alive" in the traditional sense, it's best to simply avoid them, and I suggest this not because they are "evil", but just because they aren't interested in helping you out. Just asking can annoy them and make you focus for their high-stakes mischievous games. Especially if you come in with our own expectations and perceptions on what "they" are, they would find that rather disrespectful and another sign of weakness.

[Stukov]

Btw, I forgot to ask. Has anyone else noticed a few things attached to this thread (and not just the pointers)? Did someone leave something behind to watch this thread (trip wires) or is just some people getting energetic leaving impressions regarding the subject?

[Venefica]

Demons, or any kind of spirits really, are just energy with a pattern , no? Frankly, if you want to destroy a demon, what you have to do is disrupt the pattern. I am not exactly sure on how you would go about doing that, but the reward would literally be a mass of unused energy.

That would be like disrupting a pool of water, sure you could stir things up a little bit, but since Spirits are pure Energy, they are like catching wind. Material things break, Energy do not, not, it is like the old saying that you can kill a man but not his ideas.

And I don't buy into the idea that, once the pattern is disrupted, the energy will be "malevolent" or "tainted". It's just energy. Read more about that and Direct Magic at The Library of Knowledge (quick google search).

How do you assume magic works at all if energy is not influenced at all by will and what it is used for, how do you then explain that energy who used to be a creature full of ill will is not affected by it? That being said I think that 99 percent of all creatures, Spirit or matter simply do things for their own motivations, we call others good and evil by how their motivations affect us, and how they stand according to the systems of morals we ascribe to, however in my experience, good or bad energy is affected by what it is used for.

Btw, I forgot to ask. Has anyone else noticed a few things attached to this thread (and not just the pointers)? Did someone leave something behind to watch this thread (trip wires) or is just some people getting energetic leaving impressions regarding the subject?

I have not really felt anything on this thread, but then I have spent five minutes now replying and not really done an effort to try to feel anything either, but to me it do not feel anything different than other threads on this forum, but that might just be me, what are you feeling?

[Seth]

Well, doesnt it depend on how you disrupt its energy pattern? If you disrupt it with the purpose of making something bad, then sure. But if you just change it, to make it impotent. OR bind it, would be another word. De-activate? Transmute.

[Venefica]

I would say that the essence still hangs in the energy even if it is turned into something else. If you take a smelly moldy house apart and make a crate instead then you would get a smelly, moldy crate.

[Stukov]

I have not really felt anything on this thread, but then I have spent five minutes now replying and not really done an effort to try to feel anything either, but to me it do not feel anything different than other threads on this forum, but that might just be me, what are you feeling?

Someone PMed me that they had done it, so no worries all figured out.