Beginners Castaneda

[Clockwork Ghost]

Hi guys,

Heres a link to a good site I found on the teachings of Don Juan. The teachings are all done first person, so it seems like Don Juan is talking to you, not to Carlos, plus all of Carlos' whining has been removed.

http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/

[dRider]

Carlos' whining removed?! That's gotta be nice. I love that he wrote those books on don Juan's knowledge and teachings, but seriously? He's gotta be the biggest city slicker I've ever read about.

[Clockwork Ghost]

Carlos' whining removed?! That's gotta be nice. I love that he wrote those books on don Juan's knowledge and teachings, but seriously? He's gotta be the biggest city slicker I've ever read about.

Yeah, he definitely gets a bit much in the books. If I had a Yaqui shaman offering to teach me everything he knew about magic I absolutely would not spend most of my time stressing about all the bullshit Carlos ends up worrying about. I mean, I know he was a sociologist and was supposedly just into studying don Juan for the cultural side of his teachings, but he spends more time quizzing him over whether anything is real than he does actually trying it out for himself to find out, or even just listening to the wisdom behind the words.

And yes, I know that don Juan has since been 'proven' to not exist due to discrepancies in where Carlos said he was while writing the books, but that could just be a trick on Castanedas part to discredit don Juan himself, especially if you take the angle that Castaneda was at war with don Juan by the end of the series, plus if don Juan never existed, how come other people claim to have met him? Yeah, could be that there are fake don Juan's out there, but there are some clever trickster Indians full of deep Yaqui spiritualism if thats the case...

[vethorr]

Thanks for posting this. I have been thinking of these books for a while now. I read some of them over 15 years ago and every now and then I wish i still had them. The mp3's there will be great fun to liksten to when i am at work next week!

[akimbomoss]

Don Yuan may have been quote unquote "at war" with each other while Carlos was still in the flesh but after Carlos died Don Yuan merged with him.

[dRider]

Case: Very true. I've never once had anybody to teach me anything like that, nor have I met anybody who knew for that matter. But we probably all have those things about us which would make true understandings come slowly.

I haven't read far enough, I suppose, to see any war between them. But as for don Juan maybe not existing, it might be, or maybe don Juan is a title in itself, or it could even be that don Juan did exactly what he said and rid himself of his personal history by not letting people really know it. Then, when he burnt up, all traces of physical presence disappeared.

Akimbomoss: ??

[akimbomoss]

Akimbomoss: ??

Just pretend that the war between Carlos and Don Juan never happened. Don Juan was waiting for Carlos to die. Then Juan went to him and they merged energies. Everybody thinks they separated and hated each other for Carlos's behavior. In death, which is the right hand path, things are different. The same rules don't apply. Don Juan was an EXTREMELY PATIENT MAN.

[Clockwork Ghost]

Akimbomoss: ??

Just pretend that the war between Carlos and Don Juan never happened. Don Juan was waiting for Carlos to die. Then Juan went to him and they merged energies. Everybody thinks they separated and hated each other for Carlos's behavior. In death, which is the right hand path, things are different. The same rules don't apply. Don Juan was an EXTREMELY PATIENT MAN.

Thats very doubtful. The war was supposedly related to the woman whos form don Juan takes in the first book, plus the sisters who Carlos is introduced to who try to capture him. Carlos is actually a rather powerful mage by the end of the saga, and the only way forward for him magically is to kill his teacher and don Genaro, so he sides with their enemies in order to do so. He could then have easily smudged the dates, gotten 'found out' and had his research discredited in an attempt to throw doubt on to don Juans existence, but as has been mentioned this was the path of the true man of knowledge anyway - to remove yourself from the world.

I honestly dont think don Juan meant Carlos any harm, he just got very frustrated at him constantly needing proof all the time. Don Juan was a very patient man, youre right there, but his path wasnt one of death, it was one of change and constant growth. You can tell from reading the books by the fact that don Juan stuck with Castaneda for so long even while Castaneda was constantly whining and complaining that he was trying to educate him on becoming a man of knowledge. Therefore I feel that the war that erupted between them was wholy instigated by Castaneda and his allies and don Juan was the wronged party, never an active participant, so to say that don Juan was waiting for Castaneda to die is falacy - if anything i'd imagine don Juan was waiting for Castandea to go the hell away and leave him alone, much like a teacher would do if an unruly student suddenly turned on them.

Out of interest, have you ever read the books, akimbomoss?

[akimbomoss]

Akimbomoss: ??

Just pretend that the war between Carlos and Don Juan never happened. Don Juan was waiting for Carlos to die. Then Juan went to him and they merged energies. Everybody thinks they separated and hated each other for Carlos's behavior. In death, which is the right hand path, things are different. The same rules don't apply. Don Juan was an EXTREMELY PATIENT MAN.

Thats very doubtful. The war was supposedly related to the woman whos form don Juan takes in the first book, plus the sisters who Carlos is introduced to who try to capture him. Carlos is actually a rather powerful mage by the end of the saga, and the only way forward for him magically is to kill his teacher and don Genaro, so he sides with their enemies in order to do so. He could then have easily smudged the dates, gotten 'found out' and had his research discredited in an attempt to throw doubt on to don Juans existence, but as has been mentioned this was the path of the true man of knowledge anyway - to remove yourself from the world.

I honestly dont think don Juan meant Carlos any harm, he just got very frustrated at him constantly needing proof all the time. Don Juan was a very patient man, youre right there, but his path wasnt one of death, it was one of change and constant growth. You can tell from reading the books by the fact that don Juan stuck with Castaneda for so long even while Castaneda was constantly whining and complaining that he was trying to educate him on becoming a man of knowledge. Therefore I feel that the war that erupted between them was wholy instigated by Castaneda and his allies and don Juan was the wronged party, never an active participant, so to say that don Juan was waiting for Castaneda to die is falacy - if anything i'd imagine don Juan was waiting for Castandea to go the hell away and leave him alone, much like a teacher would do if an unruly student suddenly turned on them.

Out of interest, have you ever read the books, akimbomoss?

Ok I don't know where you're getting your sources but Don Yuan, Don Genaro and Josephina are right here with me. Furthermore I consider myself to have many soul parts from Don Genaro [UNKNOWN]. I don't even know where to begin with your story. It's as if they were trying to murder each other and that love doesn't exist?

I've read all the books but 2. One of them is the Active Side of Infinity which I've read a summary of. The other is The Eagle's Gift. I mean isn't stalking about patience, sweetness, cunning and ruthlessness? To think that the team would invest all that energy into him and then just leave Carlos for dead? Carlos wanted to go off on his own and do his own thing. He found Lilith basically and went a little crazy with her [UNKNOWN]. He just wanted to relax. That's his decision. After the pain from the cancer was over and he died it was time to re-unite [UNKNOWN].

[Clockwork Ghost]

Ok I don't know where you're getting your sources but Don Yuan, Don Genaro and Josephina are right here with me. Furthermore I consider myself to have many soul parts from Don Genaro. I don't even know where to begin with your story. It's as if they were trying to murder each other and that love doesn't exist?

I've read all the books but 2. One of them is the Active Side of Infinity which I've read a summary of. The other is The Eagle's Gift. I mean isn't stalking about patience, sweetness, cunning and ruthlessness? To think that the team would invest all that energy into him and then just leave Carlos for dead? Carlos wanted to go off on his own and do his own thing. He found Lilith basically and went a little crazy with her. He just wanted to relax. That's his decision. After the pain from the cancer was over and he died it was time to re-unite.

Im getting my information from a series of books written by the person who claims to have met don Juan, plus texts written by the people who then came after him and also claim to have met don Juan at a later date. You are getting your information from psychosis and heresay, mostly founded on claims that you have three powerful spirits permanently connected to your body, an ex-forum member and a Biblical times leader of a slave revolt, along with a whole bunch of other spirits I havent heard of yet. I honestly dont think psychosis can be used as a valid point of reference in this regard, and therefore we need to fall back on evidence taken from the books themselves. Your argument also seems to take both sides, as in part you are saying don Juan and Castaneda were trying to murder each other while in another part youre saying the art of stalking is all about sweetness and cunning.

There was no team in the books either, its not a simple 'us vs them' story - if you have read them as you say you have, then you would have come across all the references to don Juan leaving traps for Carlos along the way with people such as the sisters to trap him, and how don Juan basically disappears and Castaneda has to seek him out - its all part of a test, not a 'him against them' scenario. Yes, Carlos is told that don Juan instructed people to trap him, but thats simply to make Carlos use his powers rather than letting him fall back on his more materialistic nature.

[akimbomoss]

Im getting my information from a series of books written by the person who claims to have met don Juan, plus texts written by the people who then came after him and also claim to have met don Juan at a later date. You are getting your information from psychosis and heresay, mostly founded on claims that you have three powerful spirits permanently connected to your body, an ex-forum member and a Biblical times leader of a slave revolt, along with a whole bunch of other spirits I havent heard of yet. I honestly dont think psychosis can be used as a valid point of reference in this regard, and therefore we need to fall back on evidence taken from the books themselves. Your argument also seems to take both sides, as in part you are saying don Juan and Castaneda were trying to murder each other while in another part youre saying the art of stalking is all about sweetness and cunning.

There was no team in the books either, its not a simple 'us vs them' story - if you have read them as you say you have, then you would have come across all the references to don Juan leaving traps for Carlos along the way with people such as the sisters to trap him, and how don Juan basically disappears and Castaneda has to seek him out - its all part of a test, not a 'him against them' scenario. Yes, Carlos is told that don Juan instructed people to trap him, but thats simply to make Carlos use his powers rather than letting him fall back on his more materialistic nature.

OK.

[Clockwork Ghost]

OK.

Ok??? What do you mean 'ok'??? Dont give up now, that was just getting interesting - follow through with your side of the argument, akimbomoss [rofl]

What do these three epic spirits that you say you have within you tell you about don Juan's side of the story? What do these assumed parts of don Genaro's soul that you claim to have taken on into yourself do for you? You cant just make claims like these and then just go 'ok' - its not fair... [crymore]

[dRider]

I can imagine he was patient, and that things could be different on both sides of the veil, but that is still a very wild claim. I honestly don't know if you're powerful in an unknown way, Bomoss, or if you're pulling our legs. But since I don't know, I can't merely take your word for it, either.

I also have realized that many of the things don Juan did and said to Castaneda weren't necessarily lies, but they really were: all with that very goal, to get him to master his power. It was untruths for a good purpose. I don't suppose I've read enough to know about all the people you're talking about. I've only read Teachings, Journey, Fire from Within, and the first two chapters of Art of Dreaming (and some of Magickal Passes, which seems to have little to do with don Juan).

They don't speak of a Josephine that I remember, nor sisters, and I didn't think that don Juan assumed the form of a woman in the first book. I thought that either La Catalina assumed don Juan's form or that her presence was also there while he scared the bejeezus out of Carlos by acting different than usual. In Fire from Within, don Juan comes out with the fact that he and Genaro had set La Catalina up as Carlos' perfect opponent, but that it wasn't ever meant to be vicious or anything. (Or maybe it was Journey to Ixtlan when this was revealed, but I think the former).

[Clockwork Ghost]

They don't speak of a Josephine that I remember, nor sisters, and I didn't think that don Juan assumed the form of a woman in the first book. I thought that either La Catalina assumed don Juan's form or that her presence was also there while he scared the bejeezus out of Carlos by acting different than usual. In Fire from Within, don Juan comes out with the fact that he and Genaro had set La Catalina up as Carlos' perfect opponent, but that it wasn't ever meant to be vicious or anything. (Or maybe it was Journey to Ixtlan when this was revealed, but I think the former).

Yeah, maybe I've got that section reversed in my mind - it was when Carlos had to stand and repeatedly chant and stamp his foot or something. I thought it was don Juan taking La Catalina's form, but its obviously the reverse, sorry.

The sisters are later on in the saga - they are a much harder challenge, and try to capture Carlos in their house using much stronger magic. They end up teaching Castaneda about the strands of magic that bind all things together - its a very interesting tale, but I cant remember the name of the book. They arent actual sisters from memory - they are three women who have been taught by don Juan, I'm just calling them sisters because thats what I remember them as. I dunno, my memory is pretty shady... [confused]

Thats the biggest problem I have with the Don Juan saga - its been so long since I read it, I've forgotten the specifics. Maybe I should go back and re-read it all again so I can be a more active participant in discussions such as these.

[akimbomoss]

They end up teaching Castaneda about the strands of magic that bind all things together - its a very interesting tale, but I cant remember the name of the book.

The Second Ring of Power.

[Clockwork Ghost]

They end up teaching Castaneda about the strands of magic that bind all things together - its a very interesting tale, but I cant remember the name of the book.

The Second Ring of Power.

Thats the one. Thanks akimbomoss [grin] .

[akimbomoss]

Im getting my information from a series of books written by the person who claims to have met don Juan, plus texts written by the people who then came after him and also claim to have met don Juan at a later date. You are getting your information from psychosis and heresay,

There are many legends but I think I've poked through them with the help of Genaro. Since he is the one I identify with the most I ended up getting some soul parts. I have Pink Adrenaline which breaks down the andrenochome which breaks down to LSD and psilocybe mushrooms. Because I have "little smoke" in me all the time, which was a major ally of the Yaqui (and many other humans for that matter) I seem to be able to connect with spirits no problem. So sure I have psychosis!

mostly founded on claims that you have three powerful spirits permanently connected to your body

They can be detached if there is no more love or if the spirits needs to be dispatched far away.

, an ex-forum member

Not by choice.

and a Biblical times leader of a slave revolt,

Ever heard of a necromancer? That's just one of my talents[UNKNOWN].

along with a whole bunch of other spirits I havent heard of yet. I honestly dont think psychosis can be used as a valid point of reference in this regard, and therefore we need to fall back on evidence taken from the books themselves. Your argument also seems to take both sides, as in part you are saying don Juan and Castaneda were trying to murder each other while in another part youre saying the art of stalking is all about sweetness and cunning.

It's all in how you interpret the book. You don't think I have fights with my spirits or students? Of course I do. This is heavy stuff and tricksterism is a fast track to enlightenment.

There was no team in the books either, its not a simple 'us vs them' story - if you have read them as you say you have, then you would have come across all the references to don Juan leaving traps for Carlos along the way with people such as the sisters to trap him, and how don Juan basically disappears and Castaneda has to seek him out - its all part of a test, not a 'him against them' scenario. Yes, Carlos is told that don Juan instructed people to trap him, but thats simply to make Carlos use his powers rather than letting him fall back on his more materialistic nature.

I apologize. I took something out of context because I didn't see the single quotes around the word 'proven'. So yes, the whole thing was about love.

[Clockwork Ghost]

See? Thats much better!!! [rofl] [yay]

[dRider]

Ya'll are as crazy as I am. Let's start a club.

[Clockwork Ghost]

Ya'll are as crazy as I am. Let's start a club.

Yeah, I agree - lets do this! We could call it occultforum.org, and we could all pretend to be magicians and talk about magic and stuff, and have a big laugh at the system and reality and things... yeah!!!

Hey, wait a second... [crazy]

[Nahemah]

ΙΟΛΗ7[Loli] is not an ex member,she hasn't been active in a while,but her account is still open and postable to.

I just verified it,as the below quoted confuses me:

an ex-forum member

Not by choice.

And:

Yeah, I agree - lets do this! We could call it occultforum.org, and we could all pretend to be magicians and talk about magic and stuff, and have a big laugh at the system and reality and things... yeah!!!

Hey, wait a second... [crazy]

[rofl] [oh] [crazy] [eg] [geek2] [rofl]

[Clockwork Ghost]

Okay, I meant 'member who hasn't posted in a long while who akimbomoss has claimed is now a part of himself'. Please accept my apologies for the confusion. [grin]

[Clockwork Ghost]

Yeah, I agree - lets do this! We could call it occultforum.org, and we could all pretend to be magicians and talk about magic and stuff, and have a big laugh at the system and reality and things... yeah!!!

Hey, wait a second... [crazy]

[rofl] [oh] [crazy] [eg] [geek2] [rofl]

I stand by my statement, even though it was said in jest - this is a good club to belong to, and you are a good captain of the ship, Nahemah... [crazy] [yay] [crazy] [yay] [crazy]

[Nahemah]

Nah mate, it's more akimbomoss's 'not by choice' that confuses me.Soz for that.I quoted you above too,for context.

Hence me checking the account,no warnings,no bans no anything negative or imposed.

Loli is a decent sort of person,I like her,but it is true she hasn't been active for a while. [thumbup]

Sorry for the OT intrusion,do carry on guys.

And: shucks [blush]

[akimbomoss]

I've updated this thread with strikeout for hallucinations and [UNKNOWN] for stuff i don't know.

The truth is Carlos Castaneda is not good for beginners. I just googled "Carlos Castaneda proven liar" and feel different about the whole series now.

One thing I didn't see posted anywhere is in a documentary on Castaneda. He had a harem of women at the end of his life and died of hepatitis. Hardly the death I would expect of a so called nagual. One of the women was the "blue scout" girl, a girl he thought was an incarnation of the blue scout he met in his dreaming. He told her to go jump off a cliff after he dies and do fire from within to meet him in death. Thing is he explained in his books that women don't need to jump off a cliff because they have a womb (and probably neither do men anyway, I think there is a male forum member here that can do fire from within without having to go find a tall structure). They found her car in the desert and may have found her bones (eaten by desert animals?).

I think Carlos's work should be taken like a suspense story and compiled using some true facts he researched on his travels around the word and extensive education. The books feel very addictive.