LBRP and delving back into magick

[augentier]

I've been reading tarot, studying astrology, and experimenting with different belief systems for the past 14 years. I'm not sure where I stand anymore, though..I want to start practicing magick on a regular basis and reclaim my spirituality; however, I am full of doubt.

An older man recently suggested that I try performing the LBRP and MPR on a daily basis, saying that I would have no doubt in my mind that magick and the supernatural exists. As I began searching the internet (that's how I find this forum) I noticed that the LBRP invokes the archangels and speaks of "God". This is where I'm having trouble..

I spent a long time struggling with my break from a Christian upbringing and find it very hard to accept and believe that archangels might exist. Can these rituals still be beneficial to someone like me who is just completely unsure about the entities being mentioned?

It's not just Christian terms that make me uneasy...it's any religious entity. Judaism, Islam, Wicca, Satanism, it all is very hard for me to accept..I'm so skeptical. I'm not sure why I believe so strongly in tarot and astrology, then..must be because those things confirm themselves and show me proof rather quickly.

What should I do?

[biguns]

Have you read about chaos magick? It will be such a good read for you at this time, just keep in mind that "paradigm" is not very recommended to a beginer.

You deff don't want to be using a paradigm in discord with your beliefs specially since you're planing to start with the practice, I guess you have more homework to do and search about how to invoke each element by itself, this will bypass the need to invoke archangels. There's different LBRP most with an invocation of entities but from what I'm getting you don't want to invoke any entities, correct?

[augentier]

it's not that i don't want to invoke any entities, it's that i have trouble believing the archangels exist, so why invoke something i don't believe exists? i do believe in other entities but i don't know who or what.

what exactly do you mean by paradigm? which books or sites do you recommend for learning about chaos magick? i've heard the term over the years but for some reason never cared to learn more about it.

i'm pretty open to learning about most things right now.

[hobotubbie]

Ye i agree in the way that i would recommend a more theorical aproach in your path until you feel confident to perform the rituals in their full form.
By the way you explain your situation you seem to be a person more inclined to rationalize and that's the kind of people who usually have more lack of faith issues.
It's pretty common i believe i've seen it happen in a alot of people here and then to see them return to the practices later with full strenght.

You will find many people in the path that will talk you about awesome and super dreamy situations where they met entity X and Y and how great it was and all the great things they did and all, but since your a rational person you already know that in most of cases its complete BS.. even tho it can be kinda frustrating for you to hear that.

Note : when i recommend more extensive theorical study im not by any means saying that you actually need more knowledge than you have since i don't even know how wise are you in the subjects.. it's just that with your actual state of mind i think it will be a waste of time trying to "connect".

good luck.

[Aliga]

it's not that i don't want to invoke any entities, it's that i have trouble believing the archangels exist, so why invoke something i don't believe exists? i do believe in other entities but i don't know who or what.

In the past, I've used the LBRP by simply invoking the four elements, taking out all the religious aspects of it, and it works pretty well... Though lately I've been feeling like it lacks a certain "oomph", so I plan on contacting the four Elemental "Kings" and asking if I can invoke them for it

what exactly do you mean by paradigm?

A paradigm is basically the belief system you work within, so you could have a Christian paradigm, an Egyptian paradigm, a nature-based paradigm, a spiritualism paradigm, a psychological paradigm... Etc. Chaos Magic is a "meta-paradigm" in its purist form, because the Chaos Magician will temporarily "adopt" a paradigm for the sake of a magical working, then discard it afterwards. Its definitely not for everyone, though, since it requires a lot of "fluidity"of belief.

which books or sites do you recommend for learning about chaos magick?

The usual answer is anything by Phil Hine or Peter Carrol; personally I like http://www.chaosmatrix.org. Happy hunting!

[Q789]

How about developing a different definition of god than the christian one. Many people do. Many people suggest you have to unravel the shackles of Christianity. Unravel you previous indoctrinations, unravel the dogma.
Christianity does ot own the concept of god.

Also, do a basic study of the works of Carl Gustav Jung- his works detail what it is about.

Q

[Muloc7253]

Reading the wikipedia article on Chaos Magic gives a pretty solid overview.

[entropic]

An older man recently suggested that I try performing the LBRP and MPR on a daily basis, saying that I would have no doubt in my mind that magick and the supernatural exists. As I began searching the internet (that's how I find this forum) I noticed that the LBRP invokes the archangels and speaks of "God". This is where I'm having trouble..

I have the same issue, so I just rewrote what annoyed me at once, the first I did was to replace archangels with the respective qlippoths (probably spelt that wrong) and I used that version for many years until I got more chaotic and then I just replaced the names with whatever seemed fitting. I think the laziest was using 'satan' for all after trying to find names of demons for different directions and being pissed off at books and tables that didnt agree the least about this. Anyway none of those seemed to make any difference (nor did forgetting what I was going to use cause I was drunk).

[TheophrastusJones]

"In this book it is spoken of the Sephiroth and the Paths; of Spirits and Conjurations; of Gods, Spheres, Planes, and many other things which may or may not exist.
It is immaterial whether these exist or not. By doing certain things certain results will follow; students are most earnestly warned against attributing objective reality or philosophic validity to any of them.
The advantages to be gained from them are chiefly these:
(a) A widening of the horizon of the mind.
(b) An improvement of the control of the mind."
Aleister Crowley

I think this answers your question better than I could've.

Also, what does MPR stand for?

[Etar]

"In this book it is spoken of the Sephiroth and the Paths; of Spirits and Conjurations; of Gods, Spheres, Planes, and many other things which may or may not exist.
It is immaterial whether these exist or not. By doing certain things certain results will follow; students are most earnestly warned against attributing objective reality or philosophic validity to any of them.
The advantages to be gained from them are chiefly these:
(a) A widening of the horizon of the mind.
(b) An improvement of the control of the mind."
Aleister Crowley

I think this answers your question better than I could've.

Also, what does MPR stand for?

Middle Pillar Ritual.

[Avelin]

I've been having the same problem really. I'm not too sure if I believe in archangels and god and all that in the LBRP. What I've been doing is just sticking to what interests me in magick. Even if I'm not sure about everything in a particular ritual or type of magick my interest will at least push me to try something out and see what happens. And after trying something out for a while you can see for yourself if the magick is real or not.

There are other kinds of magick and spirituality which don't have gods or entities invovled. You could focus on things like astral projection, energy work (chakras, chi energy), meditation, other kinds of divination besides tarot and astrology, psychic abilites, or alter states of consciousness.

[Etar]

Not sure if this helps, but think about it, how do any Magicians know that Archangels and "God" exist? Did they become Magicians after they received this "revelation"? Of course not. You believe by an act of Will.

[Evander]

Amorte,

LBPR is a good point to start a practice. Basically, it is elemental ritual magic, takes reasonable time to perform, and if you perform it on a daily basis - before going to sleep, and preferably also waking up in the morning, you are going to profit from this in a long term.

There is an exercise by the Astral Dynamics with rotating a cross made from aluminium foil. In my best days, I could rotate it and change it's direction at will from a distance of few meters, when it was under glass container. Today I am happy if it will rotate at all, as I am a bit rusty after last 3 years.
But this exercise does prove to people with talent in energy magic, that this unique energy does exist.

I would recommend you start exactly there: by learning to manipulate energy, perceive it, learning to create energy links etc. After you become confident in these skills, any sort of magic will be much easier to perform.

And speaking of what to do. If you want to retain your sceptical outlook, consider doing energy magic only. You can combine it with medical science and try to figure out ways for example to stimulate growth of new neurons in brain (and thus reverse all neurodegeneral diseases), growing hairs back (millions of people would love to pay you 50$ er hour of session to get their hairs back) or maybe even to use magical energy to alter physical world (conversion of "mana" to light would be a great discovery).

There is a wealth of knowledge out there, waiting to be found for those with patience and dedication to their research. No need to bother with archangels at all. Want to speak with other beings? Go to the forest and listen to trees.

Regards,