Finding my starting point. Need advice.

[ScottNoctis]

I thank you guys and girls for taking the time out of your day to read this. I'm sorry it's long, but I have so much on my chest. I guess it's a natural culmination from everything I've read and researched. Maybe I'm overloaded with ideas and I just can't find that anchor I need. Anyway, here it goes...

So, I've read and read and read. I've read Modern Magick by Donald Kraig. I've read Magician's Workbook by Donald Tyson (guess people named Donald really like ceremonial magic). Found out ceremonial magic, in that capacity, isn't for me. Others I've read (off the top of my head) - Dark Side of the Moon by Basil Crouch, Initiation into Hermetics by Franz Bardon, Elemental Magic by DJ Conway, Liber Null by Peter Carroll, Condensed Chaos by Phil Hine, Sorcerer's Secrets by jason Miller, and Chaos Magic by Andrieh Vitimus.

I've also read through many websites concerning Wicca, Paganism, and general Witchcraft.

Honestly, I haven't practiced at all. Naturally I have skeptical reservations. I want to dive in, I want to give it my all and prove that we, as humans, have power inside of us. People do amazing things all the time. They survive situations they shouldn't. People have shown amazing abilities under pressure, including feats of strength that seem unbelievable. I believe we are capable beyond what is generally accepted.

I'm looking for advice from experienced practitioners (of all paths). I'm not looking for a "you should follow this" types answer. I know no true answers can come from that. But I wouldn't mind pointers or a bit of directional opinion.

To give you an idea, I think I should start with what I'm NOT interested in, or what I've had problems with.

First, I don't like the idea of worship. I don't like worshiping gods or goddesses. I am not the type to submit to anything. That isn't saying I don't respect things, I just like the idea that power comes from within ourselves. Not without.

Second, I'm not looking for religion. That kind of goes with the first thing. I don't mind studying religions and taking a look at their practices and beliefs, but I'm not looking for a religion specifically.

Third, I don't like ceremonial magic. Not that I mind ritualistic things. I don't mind it. I'm willing to practice it. But so far, from much of what I've read, ceremonial magic seems to follow a very Hebrew oriented look. I know points have been made that "Yud Heh Vav Heh" doesn't have to be the judeo-christian god, but instead represents the divinity of the universe. But it still doesn't jive with me. And I don't like being constricted to specific instruments and altars. I don't want to feel that I have to operate with a fire wand, air dagger, cup, and pentacle. And then a ceremonial dagger (different from the air dagger) and a rainbow colored wand (representing the sephiroth). I don't find it to my liking. I don't mind using tools, but I feel as if the tools should come from me and from my own mind.

Fourth, chaos magic. Now this was SO appealing to me at first. But there are some things I can't wrap my mind around. First, it seems like many Chaos magicians don't agree. I read different works by chaos magicians and suddenly my mind is overwhelmed and it feels as if I've lost my starting point. Also, it's hard for me to really get paradigm shifting. Using belief as a tool. For me, I'm not sure if I can give myself to belief so randomly and openly. I don't think I can commit myself so fully in such a short burst. If I've never worked with Ares, I don't know if I can just throw myself to believing that paradigm at the drop of a hat. Sometimes I think I may be too dumb for chaos magic.

Fifth is WItchcraft. It seems to me that this is so dependent on a specific set of correspondences that works with herbs, minerals,candles, and ingredients. And thinking about this I begin to feel constricted by it. Also, at the risk of offending people, it seems that Witchcraft has more teenage, rebellious, "say this, mix this, burn this and it works" type mindsets, and few dedicated and serious practitioners (though there definitely are serious practitioners who have my respect).

So that's where I am at. I'm not saying I'm opposed to what I've listed, just that I've had problems understanding them, or just seem turned off by the aspects I've listed. I'm very open to ideas, advice, and new ways of looking at things. I'm looking forward to reading any responses.

[Kalcolindo]

I will offer my advice as an emissary of Scion, therefore, it will be written as if I wrote to a fellow Scion.

These inputs are not in sync with your questions, they are in the order which I come to think about something.
The three last are responses about your questions.

First thing would be trying to reach an understanding of the art on an emotional level, does it feel right?
Developing that gut feeling is worth a lot more than any book, as you will shape magic yourself instead of following the written instructions of a book.

Also, no book can ever comprehend the massive and awe inspiring powers of the metaphysical level of existence.
That is why we have so many different kind of magic, there is no true path or one.

By getting that gut feeling, you bridge a connection to your soul, the soul can grasp what your mind can not.
That feeling is your soul giving you instructions, you understand now why it is so vital for Scion caster to make that connection?

Second, you need to have a critical and skeptical mind, but it must not be the dominating thought pattern.
If you are too critical, you lose your ability to cast the spell, since you are too full of doubt to build it up and release it.
According to Scion weaving, the Scion term for magic, it is willpower and faith that form and activates the spell.
But, being too stubborn and faithful will hamper your ability to understand and develop.

Third, ceremonial magic is, according to Scion, most useful when a group of casters attempt casting a really powerful spell.
However, not necessary as you can accomplish spells in many different ways.

Fourth, chaos magic touches magic in a very interesting way, trying to define magic and build up many new ways to practice it.
This is most likely why chaos magicians can't agree, they have all made new ways.


These are my inputs and advises as Scion.
Power and glory, for those who deserve it.

[Moth]

You need to practise so that you know what magic feels like. Try something simple like sigil magic. As Grant Morrison says "It always, always works".

Kalcolindo is right in that you need the emotional connection to enable you to do the work, otherwise you will just be going through the motions.

What Chaos magic teaches is that the power of magic is independent of the belief system used to implement it. You don't have to make yourself "believe" someone else's system - you can just make up your own stuff. The important thing is that it has a deep, important meaning to you. Meaning is purely a creation of the human mind. But the first thing you have to do is do some magic so you know what it is!

I always recommend Grant Morrison's essay: http://www.scribd.com/doc/24506/Pop-Mag ... t-Morrison

[entropic]

Uhh, ok, I'll try.. dont laugh. Me giving advice on this feels like the mad leading the blind, but ok: [grin]

First of all you have probably read enough for the time being so just give that a break.. all you need to do is to find something you want or want to achieve or whatever. Some goal. Then just make a ritual for that purpose from scratch or steal parts from here and there that you like (but dont start reading about those ,)), forget about what direction it sounds like and if it sounds 'correct' or 'stupid' or anything in that direction. None of those matter much. If you want to use props, use whatever you want to, skip anything you dont feel like using.

Now, when you are going to try to do this just spend a while first focusing on your goal (as in, meditate or think of nothing else until you can keep that thought without trying too hard) and then proceed with whatever you made, BUT you dont have to stick to it, just improvise if you feel like it. If you do or say anything 'wrong', just ignore it and go it, it wont matter. If you have problems with feeling like a idiot or too self-concious try getting drunk first. Might not help but then again it might be just whats needed.

And thats about all, I think you got too much theory to think about and If you manage to get some idea of what practice is like you'll find what you are comfortable with much easier

[TheSeeker]

If you have problems with feeling like a idiot or too self-concious try getting drunk first. Might not help but then again it might be just whats needed...

I used to work with a Dionysian group, and I speak from experience when I say that it certainly can't hurt to partake generously of some libations.
Just tell yerself it's all part of the gnosis... [thumbup] [grin]

[Muloc7253]

I feel like chaos magick is something that, in its truest form, will always be digging for the root, the basic, the be-all, in an almost Buddhist-like way, just scraping away the unnecessary faff to get to the real source point. With imagination being essential to it, there will be all sorts of enigmatic and eccentric writers will build on it, and develop paths and systems which work for them, which will always confuse matters. This is the very nature of it, think about it, literally trying to make sense of chaos WILL leave you confused, it couldn't happen any other way.

My advice is to get a tarot deck. Very fun to play with, connect to, aswell as fast results. The Universe doesn't hesitate much to "prove" magick to you when you're doing a daily spread for your day ahead. Don't use them to prophecy or get answers, just have them tell you what lies ahead in your day and see what happens. The more you bond with them...well, I'll leave it for you to find out. Recap what Donald Kraig said about tarot contemplation.

Keep a dream diary aswell. Might not be useful yet but best to just start now. Don't try to analyse the dreams, just keep a record.