Could you give me some advice about this? please

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Krysium
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Could you give me some advice about this? please

Post by Krysium »

I'm kind of new to all this, so I want to ask for your advice. I don't know people who knows about this things, and I don't know what to do, so I ask for your help and advice :)
here is my case:
Two months ago I started dating someone from my college. Everything was very nice, when we were together everything was fine, we enjoyed our company, and the relationship was getting a little more serious. I trusted him so much that I started to tell him I read the tarot, runes, and things like that, and he, in turn, told me a lot of things which he considered private and never had told anybody. One day he got angry with me for no reason really, and told me he just wanted to be friends with me, because I was, according to him, someone who liked to have all the control, and I liked to manipulate other people. That wasn't truth, I never controlled him nor manipulated him, so I burst in anger and made a spell. I wanted that he saw his mistake and come back to me, saying he was sorry. In two weeks that happened, he asked for my forgiveness, and we started dating again. But I started to have weird dreams about him and other people I didn't know, like a woman pursuing me and throwing spear at us, or him being blinded, or him lying in a pool of blood and telling me he doesn't trusted me at all and yelling at me while I tried to help him.
One day, we had a discussion for something trivial, and I had the same kind of dreams, but there was an old man asking me to promise him I would protect my friend, and I did. And then I told my friend everything about the dreams. He told me his father has a lover who happens to be a witch, and when he showed me her photos, I noticed she was the same woman from my dreams. I was shocked, I didn't have that kind of dreams before. Besides, he told me that old man could have been his dead grandfather that protects his family, and that lately, that witch has told his dad he would see all his sons dead. That sounded like a curse coming, and I had made a promise and I intended to keep it.
In my inexperience, I think, we made a mistake. I couldn't teach him to protect himself, not so fast, but I wanted to protect him, so we made a pact, with a god, Odin, as our witness. We promised that we wouldn't use magic to hurt each other and that we would never betray each other. Then something happened inside the circle, and even though we weren't dating anymore, we started kissing and the things started to get more serious, but I stopped it before it would lead to other things. The air even was changed, everything spoke of desire, and that never had happened to me in a ritual. He said he saw something, like a vision, of us lying in a field with flowers, making love.
Anyway, I kept having weird dreams about him distrusting me, lying in a pool of his own blood, and I trying to help him and a woman laughing over him. I told him and offered to do something about it, but he didn't want to. I made a divination for him, and I knew what was going to happen: He would fight with me, think I betrayed him and start dating another girl. I told him I he told me that he would try to stop it, and that he still loved me and wanted to try to have a relationship with me.
A week after that he got angry about something trivial again, and this weekend started dating another girl, but really serious. And she was in another country, so he really started to see her three days ago, and I know that is truth. Days before that, he told me that he almost hated me, he felt betrayed by me (even though I did nothing for him to feel that way) and he didn't want to see me again in his life, and f*ck with the pact.
I don't know what to do now, I feel so sad that I can't make a simple divination now. I know some people would say that I should let everything like that, but I can't, something inside me tells me I can't. I need some advice, please...I fell really bad now. Also, does anybody know what happens when someone breaks an oath like that?

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Rin
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Re: Could you give me some advice about this? please

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One day he got angry with me for no reason really, and told me he just wanted to be friends with me, because I was, according to him, someone who liked to have all the control, and I liked to manipulate other people. That wasn't truth, I never controlled him nor manipulated him, so I burst in anger and made a spell.


So he calls you manipulative, you say you aren't, then you go and try and use magic to manipulate him? Isn't that just proving his point?

I honestly think maybe you should examine your behavior a little. It's impossible to say over a forum post, but it's easy in relationships to manipulate people and their feelings without realizing you're doing it, especially when you're young.

I'm not sure about the oath thing, but the norse gods put a lot of stock in oaths and promises, you wouldn't catch me breaking an oath sworn to Odin. What exactly was the oath and has it already been broken? Your post was a little vague on that point.
"The path of the Sage is called
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"

- DDJ, Verse 27

"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett

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Jack-o-diamonds
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Re: Could you give me some advice about this? please

Post by Jack-o-diamonds »

yeah i think filling in the holes would helps us help you.

what exactly was the pact about? to never leave eachother?
"oh, thou clear spirit, of thy fire thou madest me, and like a true child of fire, i breathe it back to thee."

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Nahemah
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Re: Could you give me some advice about this? please

Post by Nahemah »

That's a whole lot of eventfulness for a two month relationship.Wow.
A week after that he got angry about something trivial again, and this weekend started dating another girl, but really serious. And she was in another country, so he really started to see her three days ago, and I know that is truth. Days before that, he told me that he almost hated me, he felt betrayed by me (even though I did nothing for him to feel that way) and he didn't want to see me again in his life, and f*ck with the pact....
He ditched you and is now seeing someone else.
It seems a bit odd that he can be 'serious' about a new girlfriend in a matter of three days.Perhaps he's not been honest about some things,previously?

Basically though,That's it.

The end.

Move on and learn from this.
I'm sorry to be so blunt,but this is all highly dramatic and complicated,considering you were dating for only two months.

Next time don't be so open so quickly and take time to get to know the other person before you get so heavily involved with them?

I wouldn't worry too much about your pact.Odin is not usually one for love pacts and that's an unusual assignation,in my opinion,but no doubt he'd be amused more than anything else.He does like a bit of betrayal in the morning,it gees him up for the day.

You ex saying 'he feels betrayed' is odd too.I think there is more to this than we've been told so far,but in all honesty,you should have more care about you and take more caution, before pacting with anyone at anytime.
"He lived his words, spoke his own actions and his story and the story of the world ran parallel."

Sartre speaking of Che Guevara.

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Azkhet
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Re: Could you give me some advice about this? please

Post by Azkhet »

Rin wrote:
One day he got angry with me for no reason really, and told me he just wanted to be friends with me, because I was, according to him, someone who liked to have all the control, and I liked to manipulate other people. That wasn't truth, I never controlled him nor manipulated him, so I burst in anger and made a spell.


So he calls you manipulative, you say you aren't, then you go and try and use magic to manipulate him? Isn't that just proving his point?

I honestly think maybe you should examine your behavior a little. It's impossible to say over a forum post, but it's easy in relationships to manipulate people and their feelings without realizing you're doing it, especially when you're young.

I'm not sure about the oath thing, but the norse gods put a lot of stock in oaths and promises, you wouldn't catch me breaking an oath sworn to Odin. What exactly was the oath and has it already been broken? Your post was a little vague on that point.
I agree with Rin here. The relationship, as described, sounds like a whole lot of teenage drama mixed in with a half-assed understanding of magic.

Here's how it looks to an outsider. You start seeing this guy. Like most chicks, you try to get him to understand you deeply and spiritually. Most men don't give two shits about your inner spirituality after a month of dating, and especially not in your age group - he wants pussy, not a long-term relationship. You both have a stupid, immature fight where you choose to prove his point by trying to manipulate him with magic, although you try to make yourself sound better about it by couching it in "it's for his own good." No, it was for YOUR own good - you're not fooling anyone here, except perhaps yourself (not that I have a problem with manipulating him intrinsically, but I find your lack of self-honesty quite telling.)

So, now knowing he's got a crazy manipulative chick who's into crystals and other weird shit, he's going to try to impress you with how special he is (hint: this isn't to pursue fate and destiny, this is to pursue pussy.) You, completely into this illusion, buy his bullshit story and decide you're going to cast a protection circle against a powerful dead witch to protect the boy you've been fighting with because ... because ... I'm still looking for a reason here. You felt obligated? Why? You felt like you needed to protect him? Why? What are you getting out of it, other than a feeling that somehow magic and destiny combine? He was hoping it was gonna combine too, sugar - and when you didn't fuck him, he got pissed off. Now he's wandered off to another girl to get what he wanted from you to begin with - pussy.

So, what advice are you wanting? You are in denial about why you first tried using magic. You have an asshole with an unbelievable "prophecy" that tried to fuck you in a ritual circle after you did your misguided best to help him, and now he's porking some other chick. You don't have a magical problem. You have a relationship maturity problem. Magic won't help that.

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Vulpecula
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Re: Could you give me some advice about this? please

Post by Vulpecula »

Please remember that using against magic in such a way is invasive. You did not have the right to do it and if someone used it against you in such a manner you would be pretty annoyed, I know I would be.

There is a time to talk, and that has passed.
There is a time to apologise, and that has passed.

You do not have an option, you do not have the right to use magic, or any entity against him. I suggest you ask for clarity instead.
Then, get some distance between you and he, spend some time on, and with yourself. If at some point things happen down the track, then they would have happened naturally, not a twisted contorted set of circumstances which leaves you apologising for your actions.
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Krysium
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Re: Could you give me some advice about this? please

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Well, thanks, I guess, though it surprises me some things you said, like an "impossible prophecy" or a "dead witch"...I never mentioned those things. Anyway, it wasn't an oath of love, I wouldn't do that, it was an oath of loyalty, because I wouldn't teach some of these things to someone who later could use it against me and betray me, so the oath was about loyalty and never betray or hurt each other, which failed anyway because he broke it.
Yes, we dated for two months, I wasn't looking to connect spiritually with him, if I told him all this was because the signs in divinations and the weird dreams I started having. He wasn't lying in that time, anyway, and I knew him for years but just started dating him two months ago.
When you said I'm manipulative and those things, yes I am, but not in that way people normally is, like, you know, calling someone asking where he is, crying or starting a fight when something doesn't like you, and all those signs of the someone who is like overly attached.

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Azkhet
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Re: Could you give me some advice about this? please

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Krysium wrote:Well, thanks, I guess, though it surprises me some things you said, like an "impossible prophecy" or a "dead witch"...I never mentioned those things. Anyway, it wasn't an oath of love, I wouldn't do that, it was an oath of loyalty, because I wouldn't teach some of these things to someone who later could use it against me and betray me, so the oath was about loyalty and never betray or hurt each other, which failed anyway because he broke it.
Yes, we dated for two months, I wasn't looking to connect spiritually with him, if I told him all this was because the signs in divinations and the weird dreams I started having. He wasn't lying in that time, anyway, and I knew him for years but just started dating him two months ago.
When you said I'm manipulative and those things, yes I am, but not in that way people normally is, like, you know, calling someone asking where he is, crying or starting a fight when something doesn't like you, and all those signs of the someone who is like overly attached.
and earlier, you said,
Krysium wrote: He told me his father has a lover who happens to be a witch, and when he showed me her photos, I noticed she was the same woman from my dreams. I was shocked, I didn't have that kind of dreams before. Besides, he told me that old man could have been his dead grandfather that protects his family, and that lately, that witch has told his dad he would see all his sons dead. That sounded like a curse coming, and I had made a promise and I intended to keep it.
You said it yourself.

Anyhow, oath of anything -- why? Why an oath of loyalty to some half-baked dingbat you barely know? But it was broken anyway, you said -- good God, are you surprised? Besides, given the order of events in your original story, it sounds like you started having these dreams after you started your spell to control him, and now you have bad dreams about him not trusting you? I wonder why that might be... it couldn't possibly have anything to do with what you did, right? Okay, so you don't have any crazy stalkerish behaviors like controlling text messages, 3 am phone calls, and starting pointless fights. You're using magic to control another person's free will. Reverse the genders here. A boy is accused of being controlling and manipulative. The girl gets mad at him and leaves. The boy gets mad at the girl and uses magic to make her see his way and make her come back to him. He starts having bad dreams about being attacked regarding the girl, and the girl being very angry that he's manipulating her. He proceeds with what he's doing, and winds up in a sexually charged ritual circle with her. It sounds like a setup for rape, frankly. How is it any different or better than what you did? Just because you're a girl?

At least call it what it is. You see something you want (for some unfathomable reason... unless he's rich or massively endowed, you do NOT have a winner here, it seems), and so you actively pursue it. It's not working because your social manipulation of him wasn't working (he accused of of being manipulative initially for a reason. You admit you're manipulative. So, were you manipulating him and he didn't like it? Apparently) and he decides to bail. You decide that you don't care what he wants because what you want is more important, and you use magic to get it (manipulating him even more!) and continue to pursue him despite the numerous warnings about it you're receiving. So you want him? Really want him? Fine. I say pursue him. If it's your true will and you don't care what the fallout is, I say you're not trying hard enough. As cheesy as it sounds, get a copy of LaVey's Satanic Witch and learn it well. Before he peddled Satan, LaVey ran a very successful hoochie-coochie business as a carnival man, and he taught his girls how to go after men and win. If you're going to manipulate him, at least do a bang-up good job of it. But call it what it is.

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Re: Could you give me some advice about this? please

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Well, it does seem I have a lot of trouble with english, I'm not a native speaker and probably that fucked up everything. Anyway, I don't care about gender, I wouldn't say I did a control spell, but if you look it like that every spell can control someone, and I don't really care about that. The spell I made was something simple for him to apologize, not a spell to make him desire me, love me or something like that.
And Just to clarify, I knew that guy for years but just dated him two months. As for the witch I meant another person, not the dead one...and the dreams were for something like that, not for the little spell.
And I have read Anton LaVey books and personally I don't like them.

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Azkhet
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Re: Could you give me some advice about this? please

Post by Azkhet »

No redacting now. Your original post stated:
Krysium wrote: One day he got angry with me for no reason really, and told me he just wanted to be friends with me, because I was, according to him, someone who liked to have all the control, and I liked to manipulate other people. That wasn't truth, I never controlled him nor manipulated him, so I burst in anger and made a spell. I wanted that he saw his mistake and come back to me, saying he was sorry.
There is no vagueness here, in the sense that "gee whiz, any spell could control someone." No. Your spell was designed to do precisely that - control a man with whom apparently you've been friends for two years (!) and route him back into a relationship that you wanted, that he ditched because he didn't like your behavior. It doesn't change what you did.

You have two ways to look at it:

A. Admit that was the purpose of your spell, he is what you want, and run with it. This means continuing with the manipulating behavior, and if your goal is to manipulate and control him with magic, then LaVey is a good start or perhaps some red-blooded lust magic is in order, like out of this edition of Clavicula Nox.

B. Admit that what you have done is creepy in the extreme, and walk away from it and not keep doing it to other people. You claim you've been friends with this guy for two years, which implies you have (had?) a relationship based off of some sort of mutual understanding, and maybe even respect. Okay, perhaps you innocently decided to go after him, and it blew up in your face after a few weeks when he realized he didn't like you as a girlfriend. Ok, shit does happen. It does not excuse what you chose to do to follow up. Now, he's off with some other chick and you feel awful. Well, let me put it to you this way... You made a pact with him that you'd never use magic to harm each other. Does robbing him of his free will constitute harm? It seems like you know that it does, even if you don't want to admit it.

So, your options are A) to hell with it, and tear him away from this other girl and keep him for yourself, or B) realize you need to step back and think about what you did and apparently are doing.

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Re: Could you give me some advice about this? please

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with "come back to me" I didn't mean we started dating again (though that happened after), the intention of the spell was that he realized his mistake and asked my forgiveness, and in order to do that we had to meet again, which was hard for time issues. In that time I didn't want to date him again and I wouldn't want to be with him again for obvious reasons.
It's not my intention to harm him nor get revenge or something like that. The point was all the other dire magic that was affecting everything, which I never took care of and now was my problem, because even if it was directed to him, it began affecting me.
thanks for the link, all knowledge is worth having.

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Nahemah
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Re: Could you give me some advice about this? please

Post by Nahemah »

...Also, does anybody know what happens when someone breaks an oath like that?
Why I said this:

I wouldn't worry too much about your pact.Odin is not usually one for love pacts and that's an unusual assignation,in my opinion,but no doubt he'd be amused more than anything else.He does like a bit of betrayal in the morning,it gees him up for the day.
You basically went to the wrong God.

The minor;and they are minor,trust me,after effects you got should serve as a warning about pacting,if nothing else.

A sincere apology and a small obesiance offering would probably sort that out for you.

How did you seal the pact,what did you do,ritually?
"He lived his words, spoke his own actions and his story and the story of the world ran parallel."

Sartre speaking of Che Guevara.

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