High School Dropout Occultists

Information and advice for those new to the Occult.

maldor
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Re: High School Dropout Occultists

Post by maldor »

Haelos wrote:I equate *paying* for school to getting a job. There is literally less than 0 reason to pay all that money to just fuck yourself on any return. Student loans never go away.
You don't comprehend what I write.
Okay. I guess there could be a difference because I am not from the US where I understand student loans are more of a long term burden.

Regardless education is about more than finding a job. I guess we can agree on that? I think we have a language difference because schooling to me does not mean having to go to college/university. There are shorter, and more affordable, courses available everywhere. There are some pretty good free courses online too (edX is a good example as is the Khan Academy).

My point is that ignoring science and math is counter productive to any occult studies. Pretty sure even Agrippa states that a good knowledge of math and science is essential before studying what I guess he would call "occult techniques".

It is dangerous to have a small base knowledge and then study something that is extremely obscure in its social nature.

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Haelos
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Re: High School Dropout Occultists

Post by Haelos »

maldor wrote:
Haelos wrote:I equate *paying* for school to getting a job. There is literally less than 0 reason to pay all that money to just fuck yourself on any return. Student loans never go away.
You don't comprehend what I write.
Okay. I guess there could be a difference because I am not from the US where I understand student loans are more of a long term burden.

Regardless education is about more than finding a job. I guess we can agree on that? I think we have a language difference because schooling to me does not mean having to go to college/university. There are shorter, and more affordable, courses available everywhere. There are some pretty good free courses online too (edX is a good example as is the Khan Academy).

My point is that ignoring science and math is counter productive to any occult studies. Pretty sure even Agrippa states that a good knowledge of math and science is essential before studying what I guess he would call "occult techniques".

It is dangerous to have a small base knowledge and then study something that is extremely obscure in its social nature.
Yes, we agree on those points. I was specifically referring to paid university run by the government, no matter what form.
Education, as in, the acquiring of knowledge, is the single most important thing to an occultist.
I'm more than happy to learn about any and every topic that exists, but I'm less happy to pay for that knowledge knowing I'd never be reimbursed (or that my family would have to pay, in the case of loans.)
I apologize we got mixed up, hopefully things are all clear now.
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Tell me what you know about darkness, and I will tell you about the light.
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magari
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Re: High School Dropout Occultists

Post by magari »

I just want to say that college is expensive for the lazy.
For everyone else there is practically endless amounts of financial aid out there.

And if you're too lazy to go get it, you can always join the military for a year or two and then go to college for free.

Personally I go to a private institution that costs your average undergrad about $55,000 a year to attend. I get tuition refunds every quarter. Haven't spent a dime of my personal money on tuition or any of the fees.

I am taking political science classes that are just blowing my mind. The professors here develop products for the CIA and state department.
I am taking business analytic classes that are teaching me how to use mathematical models to solve problems I thought were impossible.
I am taking accounting and finance classes that have empowered me beyond my imagination as an individual in this economy.

A good education prepares you for success as an individual in the world we created together.

Most of the students here get a job making over 50k a year pretty quickly. Even if you had debt, its paid off quickly if you're smart.

However, most college students get married and have kids as soon as they score their "career" gig, essentially increasing their expenses to the point that they don't pay off their own student loans until their children are getting close to entering school.

What I've realized is that most people who "drop out" from school or society in general, feel that the system is cheating them, when in reality they simply are too dumb to navigate the system, or didn't have anyone who could recognize their struggle and show them the easier way.

I entered college again at 26 years old, after 4 years in the military traveling the world and getting shot at.

I did it because I realized unless I want to sell my labor for the rest of my life, I need a degree.

The reality is you don't "need" a degree to be happy and successful, but higher education is so empowering those who can do it without it are some of the most incredible individuals alive.

There are plenty of lists of millionaire and billionaires who were high school dropouts.

Most of them are the exact opposite of lazy. Most of them got incredibly lucky.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nothing wrong with dropping out of high school. However, don't expect anyone to trust you with any valuable amount of resources or responsibility. Your dependents don't count.

That is just reality in this man's opinion.

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Rin
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Re: High School Dropout Occultists

Post by Rin »

I think what Haelos is trying to say is that there are ways to learn things which don't involve the structure and financial expenditure of going to college, and that he doesn't feel that spending that money is worthwhile if he won't earn it back in the long run when he can gain the same knowledge through his own private study. The only difference is the lack of a certificate at the end, and the certificate is only a formal symbol of the fact that you passed through a certain learning structure, it has no inherent value unless you intend to use it to open up career paths.

As someone who went to Uni on an arts degree after high school just because a higher education is what was expected of me, only to go on leave when I realized that half of what I was learning was boring and useless (to say the least) and that the half I found interesting I could teach myself without the bother of being subjected to the rigid structure of academic life, I have to say I agree with him. I'm considering returning one day (luckily we have a system here that doesn't drown students in potentially life-ruining debt), but only if it's for a degree which will open up new employment options. I don't need lectures and tutorials to learn (in fact, I feel that they're sub-optimal teaching methods) and I don't intend on going into academia, which is all that an arts degree is good for (other than validating your intellect).
"The path of the Sage is called
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"

- DDJ, Verse 27

"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett

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insomni4c
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Re: High School Dropout Occultists

Post by insomni4c »

I dropped out a semester before graduating after having a bit of a nervous breakdown + existential crises. I have ADHD, and at the time was dealing with recurrent major depression, social anxiety, drug addiction, etc haha. In the years following dropping out, I got over the depression, learned to deal with the anxiety, got my drug habit under control; and I am now in a much better position to pursue my interests. I got my GED, and was recently accepted into my first choice college. In the fall, I'm going to go to school to study computer science with a focus in robotics and artificial intelligence.

I would really recommend getting a GED whether you plan to pursue higher education or not. It looks better on resumes, and might make you feel a little more accomplished. Nowadays a GED is just about as good as a high school diploma (in my case better, because it shifted focus away from my GPA lol), when it used to be inferior. Then if you ever decide to go to college, you have the option.

Some schools actually have programs where you can get your GED + tutoring for free. That's what I did. I'd ask around and see what you can find out first if you decide to get a GED.

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Haelos
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Re: High School Dropout Occultists

Post by Haelos »

Rin wrote:I think what Haelos is trying to say is that there are ways to learn things which don't involve the structure and financial expenditure of going to college, and that he doesn't feel that spending that money is worthwhile if he won't earn it back in the long run when he can gain the same knowledge through his own private study. The only difference is the lack of a certificate at the end, and the certificate is only a formal symbol of the fact that you passed through a certain learning structure, it has no inherent value unless you intend to use it to open up career paths.

As someone who went to Uni on an arts degree after high school just because a higher education is what was expected of me, only to go on leave when I realized that half of what I was learning was boring and useless (to say the least) and that the half I found interesting I could teach myself without the bother of being subjected to the rigid structure of academic life, I have to say I agree with him. I'm considering returning one day (luckily we have a system here that doesn't drown students in potentially life-ruining debt), but only if it's for a degree which will open up new employment options. I don't need lectures and tutorials to learn (in fact, I feel that they're sub-optimal teaching methods) and I don't intend on going into academia, which is all that an arts degree is good for (other than validating your intellect).
I could not have spoken my own words better.

I love to learn, I have a strong dispassion for school.
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Tell me what you know about darkness, and I will tell you about the light.
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The Mysteries of Death

https://hdagaz.wordpress.com/

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magari
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Re: High School Dropout Occultists

Post by magari »

Its unfortunate you all had bad experiences with school.

You get out what you put in. Thats what I say.

maldor
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Re: High School Dropout Occultists

Post by maldor »

School systems leave a lot to be desired. I know a guy who studied neurosciences and basically said that they just teach you not to think for yourself, but to adhere to their way of thinking in order to pass.

I do not think this is the case for every individual. It has to be said though we have all experienced the influence that one book can have out your personal outlook and opinion within a certain topic of debate. I feel university can also box you in if the tuition you receive is lack lustre.

My personal experience of education is a mixed bag of annoying teaching, inspiring teachers and apathetic teachers. I really do feel that education within a system is down to the mentality of the individual teacher and his/her attitude towards students and the whole question of what education should and should not be/do.

Abstract thinking and general creativity cannot be taught, it is a case of nurturing and directing people towards what fits them and their needs as well as their perceived needs.

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Maya The Generator
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Re: High School Dropout Occultists

Post by Maya The Generator »

Haelos wrote: I could not have spoken my own words better.

I love to learn, I have a strong dispassion for school.
Praise teh Sun [cool]
magari wrote:Its unfortunate you all had bad experiences with school.

You get out what you put in. Thats what I say.
Unfortunatly you get what they put in you too. Not always it is the knowledge. (it could be a D [tongue] )

But hey, what do I know. I did not finish it. [eg]
Illusion is the first of the pleasures.
The bomb of entropic chaos.
If some assholes levels a twelve gauge your way, you drain him, skin him and bash in his skull. Self-preservation is vital part of humanity after all. My favorite part, in fact
My mind is telling me NOOO but my BODY, MY BODY is telling me YEAS

maldor
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Re: High School Dropout Occultists

Post by maldor »

Unfortunatly you get what they put in you too.
Untrue.

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Maya The Generator
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Re: High School Dropout Occultists

Post by Maya The Generator »

maldor wrote:
Unfortunatly you get what they put in you too.
Untrue.
Could you explain? I am very interested of your persepctive. [pray]

As I said before: What do I know, I did not finish it. But there surely is one thing that was put into me in school that to this day I struggle removing: and that is experience assuring I will never go to public school again. It done very poor job in educating and preparing me for adult life. If I didn't change myself after droping out I would even say that it was waste of time, good it is not like that. [tongue]

Praise Teh Sun \[T]/ [cool]
Illusion is the first of the pleasures.
The bomb of entropic chaos.
If some assholes levels a twelve gauge your way, you drain him, skin him and bash in his skull. Self-preservation is vital part of humanity after all. My favorite part, in fact
My mind is telling me NOOO but my BODY, MY BODY is telling me YEAS

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magari
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Re: High School Dropout Occultists

Post by magari »

Not all institutions are created equally and not everyone's parents can give their children the same opportunities.

However good grades get you very very far in academia. The financial aid is endless.

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Hadit
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Re: High School Dropout Occultists

Post by Hadit »

I just popped into say LaVey and Gardner aren't exactly people who's path you want to follow.
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magari
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Re: High School Dropout Occultists

Post by magari »

I've also realized that the most powerful magicians in this world have very little to do with the occult or its history at all.

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Rin
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Re: High School Dropout Occultists

Post by Rin »

magari wrote:Not all institutions are created equally and not everyone's parents can give their children the same opportunities.

However good grades get you very very far in academia. The financial aid is endless.
But what currently constitutes "academia" isn't everyone's idea of an ideal learning environment.
"The path of the Sage is called
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"

- DDJ, Verse 27

"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett

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magari
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Re: High School Dropout Occultists

Post by magari »

Again, not all institutions are created equally.

As far as "learning environments" go.....

I might not be understanding your point.

I've lost count of the number of professors I've learned from or the styles of teaching they had. Lectures, group work, student presentations, oral presentations, guest speakers, text books, videos, group discussions, role playing, scavenger hunts, and the traditional homework assignments, midterms, exams, ect. As far as the environment, again, I've lost count of the number of classrooms I've sat in sizing from 15 to a 150 seat auditorium. Classes in coffee shops and dining rooms, outdoor classes, classes in the field, classes in libraries and chemistry labs, classes purely online and classes purely offline, however most classes have both online and offline elements.

I'm just speaking about my institution though.

I am not exactly sure what else one could ask for. These institutions don't make money unless their allumni are successful. Its in their best interest to do whatever it takes to make sure you learn and understand the material better than any other institution.

Again, not every institution is created equally, and the better ones do tend to cost more. This is why I say you get out what you put in.

You get good grades? You a member of a student organization? You work closely with your academic advisers and career counselors? You will succeed in school and get a good job out the gate that will allow you to pay off your loans within the time it took you to go to school.

Otherwise you'll be that BA flippin burgers, cursing your loans.

School gives the world a chance to vouch for you before you're capable of having any real world experience. Thats why people join student organizations and do volunteer work.

No one says you can't pursue your interests outside of school too, but again, society generally requires a bit of "credibility" if you want to be trusted with any real responsibility.

These institutions are designed to prepare the uninitiated for success in the world we've created together. In my opinion, its a two way street. You have to "want" to succeed, and the institution has to "want" to help you. If one or the other isn't putting in the effort, both fail.

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Re: High School Dropout Occultists

Post by maldor »

Two-way street. You get what you put into it too. Obviously it can be less balanced in your favour depending upon circumstance (teacher quality).

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Re: High School Dropout Occultists

Post by Draco20 »

Haelos wrote:I guess I'll share.

I dropped out of highschool when I was 16, in the beginning of the second half of my freshman year.
I originally dropped out because I was a piece of shit rebel kid who couldn't stand rules, to speak the reality of what so many people here have sugarcoated in their posts.
As I matured, I came to realize I didn't agree with how America taught their students, and it settled my decision to stay out of school for good.
When I turned 18, I got my GED, with absolutely 0 effort at all. Seriously. After two years of being out of school and with no prior testing, I passed the tests with a well-above-average score on most of the subjects.
This was all before I realized my path of occult workings.

Since then, I've done nothing but absorb knowledge in every way possible. I study and learn as much as I can about any subject I have the time to read about. The more knowledge I get, the more I crave learning in structure, rather than by topic-to-topic. I've even considered taking up some college courses for the simple fact that it will get me better knowledge (although it's pointless if I'm not going to be working in the field I'm studying. I'd like to just *go* to college without actually being enrolled, do the homework and stuff. Just so I can learn.)

As I always say, no information is bad information. And to quote something even better;
"Information never displeases me, Agent Carolina. It is ignorance that I find unforgivable." - The Director.

If you have the desire to resume schooling because you feel like you need it, make it a priority to do so. Otherwise, there's little point to it. If it doesn't benefit you or those you love, do not do it. It's as simple as that.
insomni4c wrote:I dropped out a semester before graduating after having a bit of a nervous breakdown + existential crises. I have ADHD, and at the time was dealing with recurrent major depression, social anxiety, drug addiction, etc haha. In the years following dropping out, I got over the depression, learned to deal with the anxiety, got my drug habit under control; and I am now in a much better position to pursue my interests. I got my GED, and was recently accepted into my first choice college. In the fall, I'm going to go to school to study computer science with a focus in robotics and artificial intelligence.

I would really recommend getting a GED whether you plan to pursue higher education or not. It looks better on resumes, and might make you feel a little more accomplished. Nowadays a GED is just about as good as a high school diploma (in my case better, because it shifted focus away from my GPA lol), when it used to be inferior. Then if you ever decide to go to college, you have the option.

Some schools actually have programs where you can get your GED + tutoring for free. That's what I did. I'd ask around and see what you can find out first if you decide to get a GED.

These two posts literally convinced me to go back to school and get a GED. No kidding.

I feel for the OP as I am myself in a similar situation myself left wondering what to do in life.

Just a little bit worried that a GED will not look the same as a high school diploma on my resume but I think it can open me doors and I will personally keep learning everything I can outside of the formal education system.

Thanks.

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Re: High School Dropout Occultists

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I don't quite understand your issue, kind sir.

Are you asking others if you will feel like a true occultist without having a high school diploma?
Are you asking if you will be capable of reading books and learning?
Are you asking if you will be capable of developing your spiritual senses if you are unable to solve a cuadratic equation?

What is it that you need? What is it that you want out of life?
Pride? Ego? You want that others point at you and say "oh, look at that smart man with a degree!" ? Is it that?
You don't want to work for others? Well, getting a degree will exactly make you work for others, only that you will be the smartest of the sheep.

You say you want to be a magician. If it is money and a place to live confortably that you need, what about you CREATE it? Create a business. Learn money. Passive income. Make money pour into your existence effortlessly. THEN do with your time as you please. Isn't your goal to do what you want / feel you must do at any given moment of your existence? Don't know about you but I didn't come here to please others nor fight for my survival. I came here to fucking expand. I came to playfully and joyfully live all the experiences that I need in order to grow. I came here to break the fucking chains and live life as it is. Effortless. Life goes by itself I believe. Fuck the resistance and the chains. Fuck the system.

Go and expand
magari wrote:I've also realized that the most powerful magicians in this world have very little to do with the occult or its history at all.
Keen observer magari ;)

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Re: High School Dropout Occultists

Post by Jack Pine Fae »

Somewhat along the lines of LoneWolf's post, completing a GED may foster discipline - probably the single most important attribute regardless of its application.

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Re: High School Dropout Occultists

Post by DarkSchneider »

I'd like to share some of my story.

I am on the autistic spectrum(ASD), have ADD, OCD and I had pica as a child (when you eat inanimate objects like plastic, metal and paper, in my case). I had very poor health which I am now suspecting the pica had to do with. It would greatly interfere with my schooling, not to mention my focus was non existent, I was poorly behaved and the target of bullies.

I dropped out from High School about when I was 16, irregularly attending classes between then and now. I got a test done which permits me into trade schools with the appropriate pre-requisites. I tried hairdressing out of impulse, and pressure, and it didn't really work out. I tried working my first job a few years ago but I couldn't keep up. I'm part of an autism organization now, and we're seeing what we can do about getting me help. I only discovered the organization this year.

I feel comforted by the fact that I'm not alone. I'm certain there are ways for each of us, struggling with school, to find a better way for ourselves to function. Or at least, find out what we can do to sustain ourselves. :) I like making jewelry and trinkets, art, writing etc

I was the worst person for reading when I was younger. I only started reading heavier novels and books a few years ago, and I thought I'd never read a book in my life. I'm reading regularly now :)

All this to say, I think there's something complex about our situations. I'm certain education has it's benefits but there are examples of self taught artists and performers who struggled with school often. I'm not saying the answer lies in being a drop out but there are occultists from every walk of life. Isn't the famous idea of a witch on the outskirts of society, or a magical hermit already telling enough? If I'm correct, often some occultists had little education, and had to work within their abilities. Case and point, poor people and slaves who didn't have access to their own books. I'm pretty sure American black slaves didn't have access to everything but what they knew in their culture and what they learned on their own.

I don't let the fact that I dropped out, stop me from using magick. I try to work with what I have, what I know and what I'm good at.
"...You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence. We are making history right now, every day. Always keep the wider historical and social picture in mind. That is an important key to both Lesser and Greater Magic. See the patterns and fit things together as you want the pieces to fall into place. Do not be swayed by herd constraints—know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world." -Anton LaVey

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