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I've been curious about Astral work lately (no I won't attempt it, although I thought about it for a brief moment while reading about, something told me not to try it. I'm cautious these days.)

Out of curiosity though, what is the point of Astral work, including travel, temple etc? Is it simply to experience another sort of existence? What are the pros and cons of doing such work?

I wouldent fear the astral , I would look up shamanic journying . Much more effective imo . Most of the "monsters" people see in the astral are manifestations of fear, not all but most

Just about any training you can do on the physical realm, you can do on the astral. Usually with an increase in the speed of growth attained as well.
Spells also take root quicker and more powerfully when performed out of body.
You can learn from entities there, or from the environment itself. You master your dreams so that even as you sleep, you're conscious and have a chance to continue growing.
A bigger question could be "what are the negatives of Astral Work?" While it's true every practice can go wrong, what about doing this can go so wrong that you should not even attempt it?

what about doing this can go so wrong that you should not even attempt it?

Plenty. I'm not saying that astral projection should be avoided, but there's a reason that, eg. Bardon left it until the 9th Step in his book, and most schools I know of don't teach it for a minimum of 2 - 4 years.

Mental projection is a bit safer, from what I understand, and most of the "How to Astral Project!'' type books you find actually teach mental projection.

I'm with Rin here. Also in the Bardon commentary I think it talks about 3 different ways of projecting with astral projection itself considered depricated.

Yeah, iirc it's astral projection, mental projection and the projection of the constructed body of light. Bardon says (and other advanced practitioners I've spoken to have backed this up) that mental projection is easier and more effective (allowing you to travel faster and further) as well as being much safer.

To this topic I have a thought which has not been mentioned. Would a positive factor in mental travel be, that the " Feeling " part of anything is much more less??

To Rin and Shin, my thanks to you guys for sharing and for me coming around sometimes. Always solid comments with wisdom to be understood, thanks!

Well I think that etheric projection should be the first one you learn. You won't be able to project ethericaly or astraly if you don't have a natural talent for it or have been practicing visualization and your 3 rd eye is open. Mostly nutural talent is just the work you have done in past lives anyways.So if you are interested just start practicing. If you can dream you can already astral project. Good luck.

Guess the real meaning of the mental body and bring this to daily life and you are

a lucky person.

DarkSchneider wrote:I've been curious about Astral work lately (no I won't attempt it, although I thought about it for a brief moment while reading about, something told me not to try it. I'm cautious these days.)

Out of curiosity though, what is the point of Astral work, including travel, temple etc? Is it simply to experience another sort of existence? What are the pros and cons of doing such work?

The point depends on the person. Different people do the same things for different reasons. For most, the main point of Journeying in the Otherworld is to explore, meet the residents, and learn things. Myths and Legends speak of incredible places in the spirit world - Journeying lets us go there and see it for ourselves. For most, the main point of the Temple is to have a personal workspace, to explore the Inner Self and to practice magick in a safe place out of body, or even if you don't have physical room to practice something. Crowley practiced out of body while he traveled.

The main pro's, besides those mentioned, include the fact that you can practice and Journey while the body sleeps. You can visit real world places and people without physically being there, and with training and an understanding of how it works, you can achieve bilocation this why simply by making your projected body visible to those you are visiting - even though your physical body is at home, in bed. Journeying in the Otherworld, as you meet spirits and build relationships, you can build a wizards reputation. Something that lasts far beyond your mortal life.

The main con for training outside your body is that there is a certain limitation with energy work, and I would not recommend doing much energy training at all in your Temple or anywhere else out of body. Energy travels through the central nervous system while you are in your physical body, so in order to make that training most effective for while you are in your body, that training itself should be done physically. That way, your whole being receives the benefit of the training at the same time. This same thing applies to invocations and many evocation practices, and anything else that has a major influence on the physical body. Besides training issues, one of the biggest cons is the risk for delusion. If you have not cultivated firm mental discipline and stability, it is very easy to simply imagine things while out of your body - you can suddenly find yourself falling from a real world experience into a mere lucid dream. For this same reason, it is also easy for some spirits to play with such mental weaknesses, leaving you with all sorts of problems to deal with there.

asterik wrote:To this topic I have a thought which has not been mentioned. Would a positive factor in mental travel be, that the " Feeling " part of anything is much more less??

That depends on what you are doing. If you are Journeying to the Water Kingdom to have fun with an Undine friend, you might find the lack of feeling experienced with a Mental Journey to be a down side. If you are traveling to Jotunheim, where a giant may get angry with you and literally tear you limb from limb before eating you and picking their teeth with your bones, perhaps a lack of feeling would be a positive factor. [wink2]



~:Shin:~

With the topic Astral Work and what it is good for, Shin you lost the topic with your
negative remarks. Just as the small guy asking for help, why reply on a negative tune
not even able or wanting to help there with insulting the person? I thought insulting is a no-go here?

I do not belive, everything think about undines*

What negative tune and insult? My reply to you, asterik, was little more than direct examples of things I know to have actually happened to people, showcasing reasons why Soul Journeying and Mental Journeying both have circumstantial benefits. If you were somehow offended, I apologize, but there was no personal insult anywhere in that post.



~:Shin:~

I thought Shins post was well thought out..

I don't see the issue?

What is wrong with shinichi's post?

I think there must be a language barrier here that caused a misinterpretation of tone. Shinichi's post seemed very helpful and friendly.

Blaaah astral projection, too many funny auras to decipher, too many pretty colours. Hedge riding is where it's at if you want to experience alternate realities, and it's possible to learn the basics quick enough to obtain noticeable results before your brain passes it off as hokum.

@shin

once again, resulting remarks aginst other members is not allowed normally here i thought. Your pictures of female high heel shows your lack of understanding and respect. You wisdom can be kept for yourself, but perhaps offering respect and as Buddha offering something to help that i forgot that some wesen do share to good or bad. Everybody need to understand theirselves on their own. If your remarks against me with having me someone in their teeth eating me, perhaps i will be a seward plant offering you good meal [cry] . If any being want to rip your atma sarup it will not be an animal. The world is in war now and you write shit, truth is not told, and you lost course slightly? Since i answer to no one and all is false, tell me great Shin about the story about Kundalini, how the great wisdom, entlightment comes from the butt? Is this similar with the western tradition of the "lol western bean tree" ?

An account of an experience of Journeying (Astral Projection) from Jenny Blain's Nine Worlds of Seid Magic, quoted again in Katie Gerrard's Seidr The Gate is Open (which is where I'm copying it from):

The Maurnir have much wisdom, and she asked (again, naively, she says) if they would teach her, if she could learn from them, share in their wisdom. They said no, they couldn't teach her, but if she wished she could become part of the wisdom. She agreed that this would be a good thing.

So they ate her.

They threw aside the bones, as they ate. Her bones were lying on the cavern floor, when Loki appeared and started dancing and singing, calling to the goddesses and gods to put her back together, which they eventually did.

I was not insulting you, Asterik. These things actually happen, and there isn't always someone there to save you. When you correctly Project, when you actually go on a Soul Journey, you leave your body to wander the Otherworld. You walk among the spirits, you can touch them and they can touch you. You can hurt them, and they can hurt you. There are many, many, many stories in every old tradition I have ever had the privilege to learn from which tell of people getting lost while on a Journey and never coming back, or getting attacked by a spirit and dying physically before making it back to their body, and many other such things. A full Soul Journey is dangerous, and precautions need to be taken before going on such ventures.

Indeed, my statement was not an insult or threat or anything of the sort, towards you or anyone else. It was a gentle, light hearted warning. Real Magick is dangerous, because it is real. As real as any loaded gun or sharp knife, and just as dangerous when handled carelessly. Ignoring that fact is simply foolish.

As for the high heels thing, come on. That was a completely different situation and it really needed a dose of humor. There is no point to chasing wisdom or power at the expense of fun and humor. Life is meant to be enjoyed, and any sage who forgets that is a fool. Besides, what was being asked really was too much. Elevated shoes, for that situation, are simply the simplest logical solution. It was a genuine suggestion. Maybe a bit silly with that particular picture, but hey, I'm a silly fellow.



~:Shin:~

Just to be sure because I am having trouble following. Is it the giantess who is in high heels?

Woops. Figured it out [devil]. I thought undines had nothing to do with gender. [crazy]

Etymology

"Undine" is a transliteration of the Japanese "Undīne" (ウンディーネ, pronounced "un-di-ne").

"Undine" is derived from the Latin "unda," meaning "an ocean wave." "Undine" is also the english spelling of the German word "Undina," which was coined by Medieval alchemist Paracelsus. He used it for female water nymphs, which are small and delicate. By adding the feminine ending -ina to it, the word comes to mean "virgin of the ocean waves." Deneve discovers by accident the true nymph-like form of Undine.

http://claymore.wikia.com/wiki/Undine

meh, astral projection, hedge riding, similar skillsets. Some are naturally better at one than the other. I'm a firm believer that if a practitioner has a Spark of a Gift that it can be worked with and practiced with until the practitioner has mastery over their own skills. This is very different than mastery over any given subject.

asterik wrote:@shin

once again, resulting remarks aginst other members is not allowed normally here i thought. Your pictures of female high heel shows your lack of understanding and respect. You wisdom can be kept for yourself, but perhaps offering respect and as Buddha offering something to help that i forgot that some wesen do share to good or bad. Everybody need to understand theirselves on their own. If your remarks against me with having me someone in their teeth eating me, perhaps i will be a seward plant offering you good meal [cry] . If any being want to rip your atma sarup it will not be an animal. The world is in war now and you write shit, truth is not told, and you lost course slightly? Since i answer to no one and all is false, tell me great Shin about the story about Kundalini, how the great wisdom, entlightment comes from the butt? Is this similar with the western tradition of the "lol western bean tree" ?

Somehow I missed the giantess in high heels. Damn!

Nothing Shin said was against you and you're taking very personally, something that was never meant to be. Gods/Spirits/Entities ripping off your arms and using your bones as a toothpick, serving oneself up as an all you can eat buffet, getting a serious beatdown are all common occurances as people progress along their Paths. There are dangers out there.

He didn't write shit - and he didn't insult you. He offered a different perspective that discussed quite a bit in different circles.

It never ceases to amaze me how the same people that are soooooo offended at supposed remarks against them have no problem ripping others to shreds. Humans.

RoseRed wrote:Somehow I missed the giantess in high heels. Damn!

I do believe he was referring to my first post in this thread. I couldn't help it, I swear!

RoseRed wrote:It never ceases to amaze me how the same people that are soooooo offended at supposed remarks against them have no problem ripping others to shreds. Humans.

Wizards First Rule. Never forget it. [wink2]



~:Shin:~

*clears throat* I... missed that thread. [lookleft]

You answered your own question the major reason for astral work I know of is for temples after death or meditation, in the necronomicon Astral work is essential to become transmutated into a white wizzard, then you can use it to have fun and lucid dream. General Astral Traveling is something im skeptical of unless you are using the necronomicon or ancient taoist magic system.

Or how about... it's just plain fun. I can't fly in my physical body. Exploration is a trip. LOL Just make sure you know how to protect yourself.


(yes, i know - horrible pun)