Can you invoke God?

[Lampshade]

Hi I'm Christian and I've seen people talk about invoking the most powerful entity opposite to God, Satan, so my question is, why doesn't it seem possible to invoke God? You can pray to God just like you can pray to Satan, and God commands angelic entities just like Satan commands demons, so in theory couldn't you also invoke angels and God? Why then would anyone choose to invoke demons rather than Angels, as angels are generally accepted (in popular culture) to be kinder and more gracious spirits who help you, where as even Demon worshippers agree that most demons have one thing in mind- their own agenda. Why is this the case?
Thanks!

[Kami]

It depends,
What do you know so far?

And also...
What do you believe about this reality?

And further more; What supernatural experiences have you had?
And what "strange" things can you do?

Also laslty,
Do you know yourself?
I mean,
Do you know your body,
Mind and Heart,
E.T.C.

If you let us get to know you,
We might be able to guide you the right direction in doing so...
Summoning anything for that matter. ~

[Kami]

Hi I'm Christian and I've seen people talk about invoking the most powerful entity opposite to God, Satan, so my question is, why doesn't it seem possible to invoke God? You can pray to God just like you can pray to Satan, and God commands angelic entities just like Satan commands demons, so in theory couldn't you also invoke angels and God? Why then would anyone choose to invoke demons rather than Angels, as angels are generally accepted (in popular culture) to be kinder and more gracious spirits who help you, where as even Demon worshippers agree that most demons have one thing in mind- their own agenda. Why is this the case?
Thanks!

Well here is my opinion on demons and stuff...

Firstly I do not believe demons look scary at all or deserve to be seen as ugly.

If a demon's job was to waste a human life to nothing by exploiting their feelings,
Would they not play it smart?

I personally believe that "GoL" ... Is a jealous God; and he obviously would command his angels to do creepy weirdo things to people like - going: "Booga Wooga Wooga!" and retarded stuff like that in order to scare people into wanting to get to know him.

Again,
Don't get offended by this...
It is just merely an opinion.

If anyone is to summon anything they must truly know that creature or spirit in order to lure it or appease it...
E.T.C.

[EEHC]

I certainly think you can connect with the Divine and that's what mysticism is all about. Study the litterature. As for ''invoking'' the Supreme Being, well, aren't prayers a form of invokation? But that doesn't mean it's going to always work. In my own belief system, God is far above our realm of existence and Is the Creator of All Things. What you are refering to as angels, demons, spirits ect. are actually entities on different levels that can seek to interact with human intelligence/conciousness. The occultist involved in dark practices such as black magick ect. is going to be more naturally attracted to evil entities which he/she will attempt to gain favor from at a price. But there are forms of angelic communication and Enochian magick is the most reliable system that I know of for this purpose.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enochian_magic

[Lampshade]

I personally believe that "GoL" ... Is a jealous God; and he obviously would command his angels to do creepy weirdo things to people like - going: "Booga Wooga Wooga!" and retarded stuff like that in order to scare people into wanting to get to know him.

Thanks both for the replies, but before we go further Kurokami, can you explain what this meant? I have no idea. Thanks. Also more about me- I'm not necessarily trying to invoke God, I'm just asking hypothetically really

[Lampshade]

In my own belief system, God is far above our realm of existence and Is the Creator of All Things.

Thanks EEHC, and your views are consistent for the most part with Christianity, and I do agree with your views. Thanks for the link [thumbup]

[Matrozs]

Your question can be seen from several different points of view , as a result the aswers will be different as well.

When people talk about ''God'' , they usually have in mind the christian variation , in that case : God is a sentient , conscious being,The omnipotent creator of the world , The Creator of everything existent . How can anybody hope to evoke/invoke such a diety? The supreme being?

Other people talking about God think that He is , according to some study branches of Qaballah , The Creation Itself . An equivalent to Brahma , the everything.
Personification and deification of the creation force led to the establisment of different Brahmic cults , ancient Rabbinic dogmas . It's theoreticaly possible to invoke such a force though

Thirdly , God could be a member of the ancient semitic pantheon , whose cult have risen in powers , thus raising God into prominence.

Fourthly , an egregore on the loose .

In all of these cases , God is extremely powerfull , it must require a person highly initiated .

[cyberdemon]

Technically you've already invoked god, hence why you're alive.

[mail.icreate]

If you let us get to know you,
We might be able to guide you the right direction in doing so...
Summoning anything for that matter. ~

Sorry to jump in -

@Kurokami - I get Angelic dreams and have seen angels, seen some future events in dreams. But this is random and out of my control. I want to learn how to connect on a daily basis and establish continued communication with these entities.

I have tried to called on SEER/SEAR from the Grimoire but I have not experienced any physical manifestation yet. Can you help me on how to do this?

Here is my post - http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... =2&t=38782

[Cybernetic_Jazz]

Here's the problem with that - God as you conceive of him is the Absolute. He won't answer because you'd be trying to get a full-sized elephant to show up in a matchbox. He loves you too much and won't obliterate His meditation of the universe to show you that He loves you.

The closest you'll get is Jesus. My best advice is use the old Greek/Antioch Orthodox breath prayer (ie. while breathing in say in your mind "Lord Jesus Christ Son of God" and breathing out "Have mercy on me a sinner" - do that with every breath until your subconsciously saying it in the back of your mind without even realizing you're doing it) - I don't know if you'll quite fall off your mule and have to grope your way along the road to Damascus but you'll definitely have some profound results.

Similarly with Mother Mary, Queen of Heaven, or more broadly known in the Mediterranean as the Lady of 10,000 Names - Isis, you can do breath mantrams to her as well as really knocking yourself out with Bhakti (ie. devotional) Yoga. The Bhakti yoga works for Jesus as well but I've noticed that Isis is a pretty quick responder and that you will find a very holy, loving, nurturing feminine presence smiling over you quicker than you might have expected - especially if you find yourself sincerely interested in the mysteries and magic she becomes something of a patron to those on the path (Jacob Boehme and Albertus Magnus are two great examples of esotericists of the past with profound experiences of her).

I'm starting my 3rd month of Israel Regardie's One Year Manual and since it's focus on the breath I've come up with something I'm willing to try as a breath mantram to her (on an eight-count beat) "Lady of 10,000 Names, take me to thy sacred flame". I'm very much hoping to work with her sister Nepthys as well a) for the first time in my life learning to fall asleep on command and b) having her as a lucid dreaming and dream-work coach.

Back to what I told you in the other thread - my saying what I just did above isn't my assurance to you that they're real independent entities, just that they are something like an incredible pharmacy for the mind and soul. That's what you'll notice about them up front, and as you work with them that way - ie. as potent subconscious operators - the veils start coming off and you may very well find out that they were real after all.

[Lampshade]

Thanks cybernetic, your reply was awesome man

[Tristran]

I want to learn how to connect on a daily basis and establish continued communication with these entities.

Have you had any dreams of all 4 hells (the Lake, Tartarus (angel prison), Hades or what is left of Sheol (now Hell) ?

If yes, then post the dream somewhere on the internet with your real name and email attached.

If the dream was valid and true then you will receive an email from someone who will want to add your vision to their website. There will be a very strong chance that this person is an angel acting as a mortal.

Hence you will then be in contact with an angel via email and will not have to rely on forgettable dreams for your answers.

[Cybernetic_Jazz]

I think what helps me understand where you're coming from a little - as a kid I felt a lot of dissonance between Jesus' suggestion in Matthew that we'd do greater things than he and yet church was all about yuppy conformity, spending an hour to wash up and look good, listen to some twanging guitar renditions of faith hymns, hear the priest go on for ten or fifteen minutes about local youth sport and charity, and make a b-line for the donuts in the back room. If there were anything to Christianity or the organized religions, as far a I saw it, it was THE most important thing in life - not Nascar, college Football, or whose kids are doing what - as cool as those things may be.

When I started coming to the impression that Hermeticism, Qabalah, Neoplatonism, and 'magick' were the core of our western beliefs and traditions (that people like John of the Cross and Theresa of Avila were just doing what the Easter Yogis did but with western language and concepts) and increasingly seeing the bible as a narrative book of Babylonian and Ptolemaic astrology/astrotheology - I got particularly nervous for a while because I'd always heard of the occult as the zone where a person goes off, has trysts and dalliances with the demonic (the spiritual equivalent of smoking pot or huffing cartridge cleaner for a high), gets scared silly, comes crawling back to Jesus after almost losing their soul, and starts a Christian spiritual warfare blog talking about how they went off the pagan deep end, almost lost their souls, and how Christ took them back despite their wretchedness and saved them from perdition. Then I realized that this narrative was something more along the lines of a certain state of individual growth - ie. that a four year old crawling around a pharmacy probably needs the intervention of a kindly adult to move them back to the other side of the counter before they poison themselves with all the various bits of candy lying around - I also saw that some people actually are demanded, by God, to rise up to the occasion and engage the esoteric/occult world as part of their spiritual journey. That's where I decided to go dig my 1,000 talents back out of the ground (yes, I'm referencing that parable) and serve as best as I felt I could.

If you ever want to read a book that does a really good job of not only covering the history of western esotericism but does so from a very pro-Catholic point of view (also talking a LOT about the various seers of the Catholic church right along side the best known French occultists of the 18th and 19th centuries) pick up Meditations on the Tarot - A Journey into Christian Hermeticism by Unknown Author and Robert Powell. It's a thick book, heavy reading, something like 22 articles/chapters (one for each of the major arcana of the Marseilles tarot) where the Unknown Author (who's identity Robert Powell gives away in a different book) goes in depth on his vision of what Christianity is, its value, it's opportunities for growth and expansion, and the proper place of magic and mysticism within it. it's really Unknown Author's end-life exposition of what he learned in his years first as an Anthroposophist and later in life as a profound Martinist. Two of the last popes - John Paul II and Benedict XVI had that book in their personal libraries (no doubt the current guy being a Jesuit is also well familiar with it).

[mail.icreate]

Have you had any dreams of all 4 hells (the Lake, Tartarus (angel prison), Hades or what is left of Sheol (now Hell) ?

I have had 1 dream of the lake of fire - just molten fire all around me with some entities present.

Hades - I have been in a dim light throne room and seen a huge dark angel with the head of a dog/dragon seated on the throne. The creature was advocating a throne for a political leader and then presented a huge egg to the politician. I'm not sure if this is Hades.

If yes, then post the dream somewhere on the internet with your real name and email attached.

There is so much of scams on the internet. Is there a way of communicating from within my room with the use of Sigils for these entities ? Something like Chaos magick or simple invocation/evocation?

[Lampshade]

Thanks again cybernetic, your input is really useful. I like your style!!

[Tristran]

I have had 1 dream of the lake of fire - just molten fire all around me with some entities present.

Was the dream similar to the film 'Constantine' when he (Keanu Reeves) journeys into the fiery hell itself ?
For me the film was too close to the truth as the fire burns every sinners lungs, throat and larynx away. So sinners scream, yet all that is heard is the wind and flames licking their bones.

The dragon (seraph) in Hades seems a valid vision.

There is so much of scams on the internet. Is there a way of communicating from within my room with the use of Sigils for these entities ? Something like Chaos magick or simple invocation/evocation?

There is no guarantee that you will get the entity that you summon.

Imagine that you are in a bad neighbourhood. You leave the house lights on, go to bed and fall asleep with the front door wide open. Any criminal (evil entity) could walk through that door and cause chaos. Inviting a entity into your host body (house) is risky. In MKUltra terms, this is where 'alters' or split personalities are created. One minute you are in control of your body, then the daemon has full control hence the common mood swings from happy to ultra angry.

Secondly, the names of angels are mostly aliases so that they can disobey the summoning. Take Shymhz for example, the joint leader of the 200 fallen watchers. Now the long name is Shemyhaza. In Hebrew, Shem = name, y = of and haza = power or 'Name of Power'. Azazel who worked alongside Shemyhaza is also a alias name.

Advice: Draw the sigil in your mind before falling asleep. Ask the entities name to meet you in a dream just before waking up because there will be a greater chance of remembering the dream events. If you know what questions to ask then there is a strong chance that you will successfully ask the same questions in the dream.

[mail.icreate]

Thank you. I dont watch movies related to Heaven / Hell as they can psychologically influence dreams which are really not from the other world. The lake that I seen was just me and some shadow entities. I do not recall seeing other human beings. in there.

I have not invoked a Seraph. Do you know why it appeared in my dream without invocation? I will study more about Seraphs. Thanks.

From what you have said - these entities are able to communicate with us only through minds but not physically. They just influence us physically.

[zbrm]

Invoking God is what you do when you use LBRP and LIRP.
The angels aren't even needed.

[Tristran]

I have not invoked a Seraph. Do you know why it appeared in my dream without invocation? I will study more about Seraphs.

From what you have said - these entities are able to communicate with us only through minds but not physically. They just influence us physically.

Personally, i believe that the higher the level of responsibility that a mortal is willing to take in guiding the blind people back to Christ Messiah, the higher level of angel that they will witness in dreams or even be able to email.

Seraphs (single) or the Seraphim (plural) are the highest ranking angels. They are often seen as bipedal with 1 or 3 pairs of wings or dragons. In ancient tongue a seraph is 'a fiery serpent'.

If their skin is blue with faded wings then they are fallen. Here is a real picture of one from another seraph - http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh5 ... emesis.jpg

Yes - they communicate via suggestion with our thoughts. Remember, our eyes can only see a small wavelength or visible light. These entities can be functioning at a higher frequency and standing right next to us and we would not even know it.

[Matrozs]

[quote="Angelon'']
But if God was only an egregore could he really command and rule over an army of angels?[/quote]

Spirits have hierachies simillar to our's , the oldest or the most powerful spirit in a sphere is ususally the boss.

I agree , it's unlikely .

[Arzachel]

From somewhat more pragmatic point of view: why would you want to invoke him?
Most polytheistic religions are strongly connected with magick. On the other hand, Christianity is not. I don't think it's just a coincidence.
In polytheism, every god has his own sphere of influence. It means that when you invoke him, he strengthens your abilities from that particular area - he acts as an amplifier (I know it may sound a bit awkward, sorry), as all his power is concentrated in this single sphere. On the contrary, Christian god's power is, let's say, diffused. So I believe you wouldn't get any worthwhile results.
Unless it is true that YHVH is immeasurably powerful, unfathomable etc, in which case you'd probably burn, explode, evaporate, or do something similar (it would be like having Ark of the Covenant inside you)