Are oracles reliable?

Information and advice for those new to the Occult.

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Desecrated
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Re: Are oracles reliable?

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Angelon wrote: this oracle is that it only contains "positive" messages. But in life there aren't only positive things and I'd like to be warned of a possible danger.
You hit the nail on it's head. Doreen virtue is a horrible new age watered-down version of the tarot cards that are design mainly for 40 year old soccer moms who wants to feel "spiritual".
It's all fluff and filler, and people gobble that up like it's sweet cake.
And in some sense, it is.

NOW, from an occult standpoint, you can absolutely use these cards to do good divination. Being able to read cards have very little to do with the actual cards, and very much with being able to interpret symbolism and communicate with the subconscious.

But it feel like you should probably look for another deck. It doesn't seems like this one is clicking with you. Working with a deck that you prefer and that speaks to you makes it so much easier to learn, then to work with a deck that feels "off".

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Adam Thoth
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Re: Are oracles reliable?

Post by Adam Thoth »

Angelon, I would recommend using a standard tarot deck first to get the feel of working with cards, and also because you said the cards you have only contain positive messages, which I too believe is unrealistic. The force you are working with in any divination system is the force of probability and chaos. When working with forces you need to be in an altered state of consciousness. before you shuffle and deal the cards you should meditate on your questions.

Get calm relaxed and go into a trance like state before you shuffle and deal.Instead of asking the questions out loud write them down and place them in a hat or a bowl. Choose your questions without looking to see what they are then deal the cards. Now that your cards have been laid out open the paper and find out which question was answered.

This helps you avoid all the pitfalls that might mess up your readings like your hopes for certain outcomes, imagination, and doubts. If you watch the kettle the water will never boil. Let me know if this was helpful. Cheers!

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TheSeeker
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Re: Are oracles reliable?

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Cards aren't the only Oracular vehicle available either.

As a beginning Occultist, you might consider something even simpler.
A pendulum perhaps.

You can make one yourself quite simply, or get a manufactured one.
They are very common at new age shops and or witchy type esablishments.

Here's a simple how-to video:

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TheSeeker
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Re: Are oracles reliable?

Post by TheSeeker »

Sorry if this is a little harsh.
You said you are a beginner in the occult, so listen to your Elders! [twisted]

There is much to be learned from many of the folks on this Forum. [geek2]

None of these oracles will work for you ever if you do not put in the time needed to learn to work with them.
There are no shortcuts.
There is no magic in the box or in the books.
The magic comes from inside you.
Angelon wrote:...From what I've read about tarot you should not use it often because the predictions go as far as 10 years.
Nonsense! You should be using your cards/oracle every day. It takes practice, like developing an artistic skill or playing a musical instrument.
You should be meditating daily, learning to relax, to concentrate, to focus, and to listen to your inner voice.
Angelon wrote:Also because I've read that a tarot has a heavier energy than an oracle, so being a beginner I thought I would start with an oracle.
Start with whatever you like, but commit to it. Oracles (and Tarot cards are a form of oracle) provide a connection between you and your subconscious, and ALL of them require the user to invest time and energy in learning to use them.
Angelon wrote:For the pendulum I have tried in the past and it didn't work with me. I'm unable to make it spin, which is a proof that I have very little psychic energy I think... Also the rare times I've managed to make it spin a little it would give wrong answers. Like for example I would ask "do I have cancer?" as a test, and it would answer yes while I obviously do not have cancer...
We ALL have plenty of psychic energy. However, just as with an oracle, it takes time and practice to consciously connect to and use that energy.
I recommended a pendulum because they are perhaps the simplest divinatory tool available, and will work for pretty much everyone; provided they are patient and take the time to learn.
Did you even ask the pendulum to tell you what means 'yes' and what means 'no'?
Angelon wrote:Problem is that I'm unable to go into trance. Is it really mandatory?
If you want to get anywhere in the occult, then yes. Learning to trance is pretty much essential, and like anything else only comes with practice.
Angelon wrote:Anyway I've decided to return the Oracle to amazon but I really feel abnormal when I read all the customers reviews... I mean this Oracle has been rated 5 stars nearly 400 times on amazon...
I don't think that you will find many of us here who use oracles have chosen them because of what others have said on Amazon.
Angelon wrote:BTW are the cards about communicating with the subconscious or about communicating with angels and other entities?.. ...I don't understand.
They are about communicating with your Subconscious.
The real question is: what is your Subconscious connected to?

You are new to all this, you said as much. It is obvious too that you want answers, but you have to understand that this does not work like something out of Harry Potter.
Understanding the images used by an oracle takes the same type of energy as learning a new language, because you ARE learning a new language. You a learning a language that you and your Subconscious will use to communicate with each another; a language made up of symbols and imagery. Some images and symbols work better for some people than others, and it can take some time --ages in some cases-- before you find a language of symbols and images that works well for you and your Subconscious.

Trying to use an oracle or other divinatory device a few times without learning the language --and then complaining about it, is like trying to get a person who does not speak your native language to understand you by talking reeeally slooowly and LOUDLY, and then complaining about it to your friends.
There is nothing wrong with the other person: it is you who is not speaking their language.

This is why practice and patience are so important!
If you take the time to learn to meditate, to calm your mind, then you can use this practice to learn to observe your thoughts and listen to your Self.
Work with your oracle, whatever you choose. Look at the imagery, study it. Listen to what your mind tells you the images mean to It.
This is one way it is done.

However, and I cannot stress this enough: impatience, non-practice, and unreal expectations will get you nowhere. [geek2]

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Desecrated
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Re: Are oracles reliable?

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Angelon wrote:Anyway I've decided to return the Oracle to amazon but I really feel abnormal when I read all the customers reviews... I mean this Oracle has been rated 5 stars nearly 400 times on amazon so I truly feel like I'm not normal...
Justin beber has sold 44 million records. Just because something is popular doesn't mean everybody will like it.

Problem is that I'm unable to go into trance. Is it really mandatory?
Not at all.
BTW are the cards about communicating with the subconscious or about communicating with angels and other entities?
It depends on you. What do you want to communicate with. How do you function as a person. What tradition you study, what background you have, what goals you have, what you want out of them now.
But from what I've read about tarot you should not use it often because the predictions go as far as 10 years.
You can do life readings with tarot, you can do longer spanning readings, and you can do daily readings.
Most of us that has gone through a 1 year practice of ritual magic have done daily tarot meditations and daily tarot drawings for 365 days in a row.
Also because I've read that a tarot has a heavier energy than an oracle, so being a beginner I thought I would start with an oracle.
This is somewhat true. And there are a lot of other oracle decks you can try. There is also the lenormand cards that are very popular right now and can be excellent for yes and no question. But so can a pair of dice or just plain ordinary playing cards.
I have very little psychic energy I think
Well, so did most of us here too. That is why we train.

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cyberdemon
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Re: Are oracles reliable?

Post by cyberdemon »

Desecrated and TheSeeker are both essentially saying the same thing, they're both well experienced mages.

I recommend that you get not an oracle nor a pendulum, but just get a regular, generic, cheap tarot deck with no fancy names or brands attached to them. Better yet if you can buy it off the street or from a shop near where you live, but if that's not possible ebay/amazon is fine.

When you have it, spend a while getting to know your deck. Learn which cards are part of the "minor arcana" and which cards are in "major arcana".
Then find your own way of shuffling and drawing cards according to your own ideas, see if you can start to find the connection between one drawing and what happens afterward. Do this before you go on into anything thats normally taught as standard tarot card practices.
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Napoli
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Re: Are oracles reliable?

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Virtue's angel oracle cards were usually accurate for me, but their sweetness gave me a cavity. Give me a good old-fashioned Rider-Waite tarot deck any day. These cards have the ability to tell you things as it is. I usually do online readings and even if I get any bad reading the sites never ask me to lose hope, faith in oneself and courage. If I have to give up on something they say that too. In fact tarot cards have been one of my biggest sources of guidance, inspiration and courage ever since I have begun to use them.

Oracle cards are sometimes fun and handy. A fallen angel oracle deck card had once asked me to nurture myself. It turned out that if I hadn't done so I would have become more vulnerable to spiritual attacks- to the point and no fluff. But they are not my go to divinatory cards.
In my sword I trust.

- Ensiferum

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RockDemon
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Re: Are oracles reliable?

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Dear, Angelon you have quite enough good advice here already, but just one more thing to add.
Desecrated wrote:There is also the lenormand cards that are very popular right now and can be excellent for yes and no question. But so can a pair of dice or just plain ordinary playing cards.
Lenormand cards are not only for yes and no questions but for general readings as well, for long - term and lifetime readings as well, especially the Gypsy spread. However know that Lenormand cards work a little bit different than Tarot. And if you are looking for cards only for divination purposes (you do not want to dwell on Qabalistic side of the Tarot) then you might as well purchase Lenormand.

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Napoli
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Re: Are oracles reliable?

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RockDemon wrote:And if you are looking for cards only for divination purposes (you do not want to dwell on Qabalistic side of the Tarot) then you might as well purchase Lenormand.
Can you please advise on what parts of the Qabbalah should I study to learn the tarot? I am currently learning the basics to read tarot cards from 'Biddy Tarot'.
In my sword I trust.

- Ensiferum

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Desecrated
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Re: Are oracles reliable?

Post by Desecrated »

Napoli wrote:
RockDemon wrote:And if you are looking for cards only for divination purposes (you do not want to dwell on Qabalistic side of the Tarot) then you might as well purchase Lenormand.
Can you please advise on what parts of the Qabbalah should I study to learn the tarot? I am currently learning the basics to read tarot cards from 'Biddy Tarot'.
I'm going to let rockdemon answer because he knows more about Hermetic Qabalah then I do.
BUT, I really have to recommend a book that will save you a lot of time.

Paul Huson - Mystical origins of the tarot.

It's the best comparative study on tarot that I've read so far because it presents not only Waite's tarot system in depth, but also compares it to the traditional Golden dawn system, De mellet, Court de Gebelin, Etteila, Levi, Mathers pre-golden dawn system, Grand orient and Picatrix.

If you want to understand the "occult" meaning behind the cards, this is a really good start.

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RockDemon
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Re: Are oracles reliable?

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Napoli wrote:
RockDemon wrote:And if you are looking for cards only for divination purposes (you do not want to dwell on Qabalistic side of the Tarot) then you might as well purchase Lenormand.
Can you please advise on what parts of the Qabbalah should I study to learn the tarot? I am currently learning the basics to read tarot cards from 'Biddy Tarot'.
Well, the first thing to remember is that Qabbalah is not so for the divination purposes in the tarot. The best book I've come so far about the Tarot and Qabalah is The Qabalistic Tarot by Robert Wang. It deals with Rider Waite deck, Thoth Tarot, Golden Dawn Tarot and the Marseille tarot. But in general, study the Qabalah that deals with the tree of life such as Sepher Yetzirah. In fact, I would recommend Study the tree of life separately, then try to find the correspondences yourself and then read something that connects the 2. That would be an interesting exercise.
Desecrated wrote:I'm going to let rockdemon answer because he knows more about Hermetic Qabalah then I do.
BUT, I really have to recommend a book that will save you a lot of time.

Paul Huson - Mystical origins of the tarot.

It's the best comparative study on tarot that I've read so far because it presents not only Waite's tarot system in depth, but also compares it to the traditional Golden dawn system, De mellet, Court de Gebelin, Etteila, Levi, Mathers pre-golden dawn system, Grand orient and Picatrix.

If you want to understand the "occult" meaning behind the cards, this is a really good start.
I am not familiar with this book. Gonna read it as well.

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Napoli
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Re: Are oracles reliable?

Post by Napoli »

Thank you guys [happyface] .
In my sword I trust.

- Ensiferum

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