Identifying crossroads

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Liberator
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Identifying crossroads

Post by Liberator »

Can they be just any road where 3 roads intersect or must be Y shaped? The ones closest to me look like a semi-"plus" sign. 2 roads going left and right, while one goes straight ahead of both. _|_

Just wanted to know to be sure because I live near a place where 3 roads intersect.

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Re: Identifying crossroads

Post by WillowDarkWytch »

Motumbá Àse

Crossroads are shape in different ways, most popular are those of 4 arms + or three arms Y or T shaped. Each one has it's own kind of energy and is dwelled by specific beings, but you might work with both for an "road opening" ritual.

Female spirits dwell in 3 armed crossroads, like Hekate, Pombagira, female Souls, etc.

Saravá,
Idansinají
"Kosi Ewe Kosi Orìṣà"
- Yoruba Tradition

"Water which is too pure has no fish"
- form the Ts'ai Ken T'an

"No enunciation of the Truth will ever be complete, no method of training will ever be suitable for all temperaments..."
- Dion Fortune

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Re: Identifying crossroads

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WillowDarkWytch wrote:Motumbá Àse

Crossroads are shape in different ways, most popular are those of 4 arms + or three arms Y or T shaped. Each one has it's own kind of energy and is dwelled by specific beings, but you might work with both for an "road opening" ritual.

Female spirits dwell in 3 armed crossroads, like Hekate, Pombagira, female Souls, etc.

Saravá,
Idansinají
I happen to follow one of them. Will a T shaped one work? I live near one and next to it is a building made in the year 1900 on the right side of the | part, on the left is a Catholic Church but on the _ section is residence where I live. Patches of grass and soil around it, I've poured red wine as libation recently at the centre of the _ section line.

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Re: Identifying crossroads

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Also if you have found a patron/matron deity do you have to receive visions in which you directly see them? In my case I was suddenly drawn including especially when reading/researching after drawn. After following her for awhile my fears of the dark and etc extinguished alot knowing the being has power/authority over it.

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Re: Identifying crossroads

Post by Desecrated »

In Swedish witchcraft it has to be 4 roads meeting in a cross/x shape.

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Re: Identifying crossroads

Post by Nahemah »

That's pretty much as it is here too, Desecrated.

All intersectional roads and pathways are convergence/ divergence points of one kind or another, though and have energetic flows that can be worked with. I am surrounded by churches and old buildings, with several old and culverted in water courses and other features commonly noted as traditionally significant for energy concentration.

It's a psychic energy super-highway route at times, very noisy and in need of filtration. I tune it out, mostly.

Then there's all the modern energetic connections to add in too, as flows and pipes are still flows and pipes after all. [wink2]

City life, lol.
"He lived his words, spoke his own actions and his story and the story of the world ran parallel."

Sartre speaking of Che Guevara.

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Re: Identifying crossroads

Post by WillowDarkWytch »

Motumbá Àse!

Aside from "local lore" crossroads have "different energies". T or Y shaped crossroads are "feminine" energy, and that's sort of "universal" knowledge. I don't know how it is in swedish witchcraft or where Nahemah lives, but that would be something that's "native" from the place.

We have a lot more "crossroads" with a lot of "arms" but most trditionals are 4 armed like a cross or X and 3 armed like T and Y.

For example Hekate is present in Y crossroads. Papa Legba from Hatian Vodou would be present in all crossreads "in life" (not just physical) but His main crossroad are + or x formed. "Male Crossroads".
Liberator wrote: I happen to follow one of them. Will a T shaped one work? I live near one and next to it is a building made in the year 1900 on the right side of the | part, on the left is a Catholic Church but on the _ section is residence where I live. Patches of grass and soil around it, I've poured red wine as libation recently at the centre of the _ section line.
It depends on what deity you're working with. But as I told you, if you don't have the "right one" a crossroad is a crossroad after all.
Also if you have found a patron/matron deity do you have to receive visions in which you directly see them? In my case I was suddenly drawn including especially when reading/researching after drawn. After following her for awhile my fears of the dark and etc extinguished alot knowing the being has power/authority over it.
Mostly when deities or spirits call you, they do it through dreams and visions. Sometimes "synchronicities" in day to day life or certain things happen that you may relate to them and see it as signs. You need to go to a person that is well informed about the deity/spirit or research more to know better how to worship/work with.

And as Nahemah says, in the modern cities, energies are "different", are the same energies manifesting through different symbols, as for Feng Shui, a one way street is considered a river, because of its "flow".

Saravá,
Idansinají
"Kosi Ewe Kosi Orìṣà"
- Yoruba Tradition

"Water which is too pure has no fish"
- form the Ts'ai Ken T'an

"No enunciation of the Truth will ever be complete, no method of training will ever be suitable for all temperaments..."
- Dion Fortune

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Re: Identifying crossroads

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The 'local lore' is nationwide, so it's quite a big locality and I'm from Scotland, specifically, Northern Europe in a more generalised/ international sense.

Our myths are based on very old religious traditions with strong Norse and Celtic cultural influences. But, WillowDarkWytch, you say 'native'and 'local' like they are bad words, lol.

There are no universally accepted belief sets regarding spirituality and magick, that apply across the board to all, so I challenge the claim that there are.

I'm not so familiar with the gender distinctions given here regarding crossed roads, although Hecate has been mentioned in some writings as being conflated with the tri- via or three ways, but that is a Roman connection, tied to the misrepresentation of certain older deities as maiden/mother/ crone in the Romanised form and one most often seen in Neopagan systems of belief.

I'm not Neopagan, however and I couldn't speak about Pomba Gira, as I don't know much regarding it. It's Brazilian Diaspora, is that correct?

There are lots of traditional customs and superstitions concerning crossed roads in Europe, whether the 'lores' about them are Christianised, Pict, Celt, Balt, Norse, Slav, Sami, Turkic or even older memories, or whether it is from Northern, Southern, Eastern or Western parts of Europe and the history of their uses is quite fascinating also. That may also have something to do with the fear of dark things associated with them and of which spirits are said to frequent these places. IMMV, of course. I also think that other Continents will have interesting and intriguing traditions worth exploring regarding crossed roads and they are not all universally constructed in the same ways.

Roads in towns and cities have developed energy flows that are quite modern in their construction and flavour, though they often take the same path as older routes beneath them, as in hereabouts, where there is a Roman road running under at least one local stretch.

I think this is something worth thinking about if you live in a built up area, as the energy is moving constantly and being renewed and added to all the time too. Crossroad type energies can also be utilised by those of a less old school religious bent, when it comes to magickal practices regarding the harnessing of flow and so on. Just saying.
"He lived his words, spoke his own actions and his story and the story of the world ran parallel."

Sartre speaking of Che Guevara.

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Re: Identifying crossroads

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Nahemah wrote: But, WillowDarkWytch, you say 'native'and 'local' like they are bad words, lol.
No, I'm not. That's an idea of yours.

About Hekate, you're wrong. It's not just related to romans, it's a greek belief which I'd studied time ago. AND ofcourse I'm not talking about the Triple Goddess concept. Again, another idea of yours.

There is certain esoteric universalism, which doesn't imply that are absolute truths. These might be even exoteric knowledge, based in western esoteric beliefs and tales, that maybe you're not related with. And it's ok, you're not obligated in any case to know it neither.

I believe that european lore it's very rich in magick and myths, I wouldn't look down on it in any case. I don't know why you would put that sense in my words. But it's not how I feel about it anyway.

In a "universal" way, even numbers are "masculine" in energy and odd numbers are "femenine". So 4 armed crossroad would be more male energy, and 3 armed would be more female energy, but it doesn't mean you have to work with male or female in each one, again, a crossroad is a crossroad and any crossroad deity may be served there.

Saravá,
Idansinají
"Kosi Ewe Kosi Orìṣà"
- Yoruba Tradition

"Water which is too pure has no fish"
- form the Ts'ai Ken T'an

"No enunciation of the Truth will ever be complete, no method of training will ever be suitable for all temperaments..."
- Dion Fortune

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Re: Identifying crossroads

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WillowDarkWytch wrote:
About Hekate, you're wrong. It's not just related to romans, it's a greek belief which I'd studied time ago. AND ofcourse I'm not talking about the Triple Goddess concept. Again, another idea of yours.
Yup, most roman is originally Greek. Which is odd sine the Etruscan (people living in Italy before Romans) did have a rich occult tradition. But I guess the Greek methods was seen as more "refined"
In a "universal" way, even numbers are "masculine" in energy and odd numbers are "femenine". So 4 armed crossroad would be more male energy, and 3 armed would be more female energy, but it doesn't mean you have to work with male or female in each one, again, a crossroad is a crossroad and any crossroad deity may be served there.

Interestingly enough in one of the oldest books I have on numerology

1 is god,
2 is evil,
3 is adam,
4 is eve.

Phytagoras on the other hand put them in this order:
1 is the number of reason.
2 is the first even or female number, the number of opinion.
3 is the first true male number, the number of harmony.
4 is the number of justice or retribution.


Jewish gematria puts it this way
1 The Oneness of G-d
2 The Two Tablets of the Covenant
3 The three Patriarchs (male)
4 The four Matriarchs (female)

Crossroads has also been used in magick without associating them with any deities. The oldest mention I've found of crossroad magic in Scandinavia is pre-christian. Probably around 960 to 1010.

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Re: Identifying crossroads

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Motumbá Àse, Desecrated
Desecrated wrote:
WillowDarkWytch wrote:
About Hekate, you're wrong. It's not just related to romans, it's a greek belief which I'd studied time ago. AND ofcourse I'm not talking about the Triple Goddess concept. Again, another idea of yours.
Yup, most roman is originally Greek. Which is odd sine the Etruscan (people living in Italy before Romans) did have a rich occult tradition. But I guess the Greek methods was seen as more "refined"
Refined, I liked it hehehe
Desecrated wrote:
WillowDarkWytch wrote: In a "universal" way, even numbers are "masculine" in energy and odd numbers are "femenine". So 4 armed crossroad would be more male energy, and 3 armed would be more female energy, but it doesn't mean you have to work with male or female in each one, again, a crossroad is a crossroad and any crossroad deity may be served there.

Interestingly enough in one of the oldest books I have on numerology

1 is god,
2 is evil,
3 is adam,
4 is eve.

Phytagoras on the other hand put them in this order:
1 is the number of reason.
2 is the first even or female number, the number of opinion.
3 is the first true male number, the number of harmony.
4 is the number of justice or retribution.


Jewish gematria puts it this way
1 The Oneness of G-d
2 The Two Tablets of the Covenant
3 The three Patriarchs (male)
4 The four Matriarchs (female)

Crossroads has also been used in magick without associating them with any deities. The oldest mention I've found of crossroad magic in Scandinavia is pre-christian. Probably around 960 to 1010.
When you study numerology, you have different schools, right? What you are enumerating are conceptions of specific schools. When you see numbers and its quality, you see male are numbers are those even numbers, which represent consciousness, solar, and odd numbers as female because odd numbers are "uneven" and represent the more lunar, subconscious level. That's all. In Candomblé 1 is Esu, 2 Ogun, 3 Osoosi ... and so on, 1 means trouble, 2 war, 3 even more troubles and war LOL (ofcourse, that's simply put. Yoruba oracles have a lot more to the study, Ifa it's the black african qabalah) But in traditional numerology would be 1 Unitiy, 2 Duality, 3 Harmony, 4 Stability, etc etc etc It all depends on the school, and I mostly speak from Western Tradition, which is where I have my initiations.

When I speak of "universal", "universality", "traditional" etc, I'm speaking of Esoteric Western Tradition, Hermeticism, etc. Which is a frame where we all may talk. When you put those things, you're trying to prove me wrong (or that I'm in a way absolutist) by showing concepts from very specific schools. It's like I would talk just from ATR and we would always desagree, because it only belongs to my religious tradition. That's why I always refer to EWT and Hermeticism when sharing a discussion.

Ofcourse crossroads may be work with without whorshiping of deities and spirits... BUT outside spaces normaly have their own entities and spirits living there, so you would like to be respectful of that before going to do your magicks as it is your place... you could have backfire because of an entity of that crossroad that felt you disrespect it. I don't know, it's always better to check. Those are things one learn from ATR that are good, to respect the spirits.

And as for scandinavian lore, I find it awesome that it has its own tradition. Would be awesome too that you shared a little of it to get to know it better.

Saravá,
Idansinají
"Kosi Ewe Kosi Orìṣà"
- Yoruba Tradition

"Water which is too pure has no fish"
- form the Ts'ai Ken T'an

"No enunciation of the Truth will ever be complete, no method of training will ever be suitable for all temperaments..."
- Dion Fortune

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Re: Identifying crossroads

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WillowDarkWytch wrote:


When I speak of "universal", "universality", "traditional" etc, I'm speaking of Esoteric Western Tradition, Hermeticism, etc. Which is a frame where we all may talk. When you put those things, you're trying to prove me wrong (or that I'm in a way absolutist) by showing concepts from very specific schools. It's like I would talk just from ATR and we would always desagree, because it only belongs to my religious tradition. That's why I always refer to EWT and Hermeticism when sharing a discussion.

1 universal
adjective uni·ver·sal \ˌyü-nə-ˈvər-səl\
Simple Definition of universal

: done or experienced by everyone : existing or available for everyone

: existing or true at all times or in all places




And as for scandinavian lore, I find it awesome that it has its own tradition. Would be awesome too that you shared a little of it to get to know it better.
All Scandinavian things are originally European, we only thawed out of the ice 13000 years ago.
But, it's also a concept of just how "universal truths" can change when they move from country to country.

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Re: Identifying crossroads

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Desecrated wrote:
WillowDarkWytch wrote:


When I speak of "universal", "universality", "traditional" etc, I'm speaking of Esoteric Western Tradition, Hermeticism, etc. Which is a frame where we all may talk. When you put those things, you're trying to prove me wrong (or that I'm in a way absolutist) by showing concepts from very specific schools. It's like I would talk just from ATR and we would always desagree, because it only belongs to my religious tradition. That's why I always refer to EWT and Hermeticism when sharing a discussion.
1 universal
adjective uni·ver·sal \ˌyü-nə-ˈvər-səl\
Simple Definition of universal

: done or experienced by everyone : existing or available for everyone

: existing or true at all times or in all places
Isn't Hermeticism "universal"? I won't go over semantics to explain something that doesn't need explaining.

All Scandinavian things are originally European, we only thawed out of the ice 13000 years ago.
But, it's also a concept of just how "universal truths" can change when they move from country to country.
Yet you could share it. If you don't want to, don't. It's your choice.

Universal truths don't change, what changes is our perception and knowledge about it.

Saravá,
Idansinají
"Kosi Ewe Kosi Orìṣà"
- Yoruba Tradition

"Water which is too pure has no fish"
- form the Ts'ai Ken T'an

"No enunciation of the Truth will ever be complete, no method of training will ever be suitable for all temperaments..."
- Dion Fortune

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Re: Identifying crossroads

Post by Nahemah »

Hermeticism is not universal, no.

We do not uphold or promote any one belief set here at this forum as being in any way universal, or universally correct or as true over and above any other set or structure and you are beginning to come across as preaching your one true truth. Please do not continue to do this.

Hermeticism is important in the Western Mystery Tradition of Ceremonial magick, this is not in doubt. That it may be the universal truth for those who follow this path is not in doubt either, but it does not apply to all of us here at OF, by any means whatsoever.

Now we should get back to the main theme of the topic as this has drifted way too far from the OP and any further comments of this nature will be split off and shifted elsewhere.
"He lived his words, spoke his own actions and his story and the story of the world ran parallel."

Sartre speaking of Che Guevara.

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Re: Identifying crossroads

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WillowDarkWytch wrote: Isn't Hermeticism "universal"?
No.
Yet you could share it. If you don't want to, don't. It's your choice.
Universal truths don't change, what changes is our perception and knowledge about it.
O yeah, absolutely, if you want to know anything just ask. I don't have any good international sites or sources I can share, since I read most of the Scandinavian languages and thus don't read the english translations unless it's something like the Eddas or galdrabok.

Well, truth is a mater of interpretation. What is true for one person, might not be true for another. Claiming that one particular person or paradigm has found "the absolute truth" almost never pays of on an international forum. It's much more interesting if you present your view from your standpoint, and I present my view from my standpoint and then we compare them and hopefully that gives us something to think about.
Of course some people DO believe that there is an absolute truth or at least some underlying truth so you can always present things that way. Just remember that some might not share the same fundamental worldview as you do.

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Re: Identifying crossroads

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Desecrated wrote:In Swedish witchcraft it has to be 4 roads meeting in a cross/x shape.
I'd bet those four roads have only two names [smile]

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Re: Identifying crossroads

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Spida wrote:
Desecrated wrote:In Swedish witchcraft it has to be 4 roads meeting in a cross/x shape.
I'd bet those four roads have only two names [smile]
Isn't that how crossroad always work?

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Re: Identifying crossroads

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Desecrated wrote:
Spida wrote:
Desecrated wrote:In Swedish witchcraft it has to be 4 roads meeting in a cross/x shape.
I'd bet those four roads have only two names [smile]
Isn't that how crossroad always work?
Yes TWO roads intersecting to form a cross/x. Any road that intersects another would be a crossroad, but one would have to completely pass through the other. I wouldn't consider a Y shape a crossroad as Liberator mentioned.

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Re: Identifying crossroads

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I think I've just had a possible experience. At about 3 - 4 am when I was still awake I peered out of the window after listening for the quiet but weird sounds I heard. Saw people in white clothing walking on the crossroads fairly fast. By the time I turned around to inform someone I couldn't find them anywhere. They were walking from the right part of the crossroad to the left and did not use the civilian walkway. Appeared below/"my south" of the building made in 1900. Could have just been people but idk, they walked fairly fast without even running. I was fully awake and conscious also when I saw. It was on the 2nd or 3rd "day" after I poured the libation on the patch directly at the centre of the crossroads for this deity I work with. They could have just been people but I have no idea, the train station is closed at 3-4 am and over a dozen of them. Idk what they were doing, they moved pretty fast.

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Re: Identifying crossroads

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Liberator wrote:I think I've just had a possible experience. At about 3 - 4 am when I was still awake I peered out of the window after listening for the quiet but weird sounds I heard. Saw people in white clothing walking on the crossroads fairly fast. By the time I turned around to inform someone I couldn't find them anywhere. They were walking from the right part of the crossroad to the left and did not use the civilian walkway. Appeared below/"my south" of the building made in 1900. Could have just been people but idk, they walked fairly fast without even running. I was fully awake and conscious also when I saw. It was on the 2nd or 3rd "day" after I poured the libation on the patch directly at the centre of the crossroads for this deity I work with. They could have just been people but I have no idea, the train station is closed at 3-4 am and over a dozen of them. Idk what they were doing, they moved pretty fast.
Motumbá, Liberator!

In many traditions, crossroads are "in between" places. So, spirits of all kinds might cross over here, and the other way around too. So I wouldn't be surprised that after you pour the libation to your deity you shaked things a little in that spot. And also depends of which deity it is. I'd love to know who you're working with, I'm intrigued!

Saravá,
Idansinají
"Kosi Ewe Kosi Orìṣà"
- Yoruba Tradition

"Water which is too pure has no fish"
- form the Ts'ai Ken T'an

"No enunciation of the Truth will ever be complete, no method of training will ever be suitable for all temperaments..."
- Dion Fortune

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Re: Identifying crossroads

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WillowDarkWytch wrote:
Motumbá, Liberator!

In many traditions, crossroads are "in betweGoldfield, David, Promised Land: The South since 1945en" places.
í
There it said "in between "... I don't know where the other stuff came from

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Re: Identifying crossroads

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Moderator error, it's sorted now.
"He lived his words, spoke his own actions and his story and the story of the world ran parallel."

Sartre speaking of Che Guevara.

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