Question about Hermeticism

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VenusianEchoes
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Question about Hermeticism

Post by VenusianEchoes »

Heads up, I'm quite atheistic. However, lately ive been having thoughts go into other things and hermeticism is where I think I will begin exploration.

I have several questions:

THE PRINCIPLE OF MENTALISM.

"THE ALL is MIND; The Universe is Mental."This Principle embodies the truth that "All is Mind."It explains that THE ALL (which is the Substantial Reality underlying all the outward manifestations and appearances which we know under the terms of "The Material Universe"; the "Phenomena of Life"; "Matter"; "Energy"; and, in short, all that is apparent to our material senses) is SPIRIT...


The question I have here is, to what extent is objective reality true? Science finds patterns that are consistent, and science often uproots its self because it needs to peer review and it will find mistakes in its thinking, later revealing something that is closer to truth. if it were merely mental, couldnt science just reject any mistakes and "will" the current knowledge into correctness?

I mean, if you jump off the grand canyon, what sort of mental energy is going to prevent death? I feel like Empiricism and science has a track record because it is on to something. I dont think science is everything, but its one thing that seems to work quite consistently, without hiding details.


Do the principles of hermeticism apply to themselves?

If all truths are but half truths, what do we say about the truths found in the hermetic principles?

V. THE PRINCIPLE OF RHYTHM


“Everything flows, out and in; everything has its tides; all things rise and fall; the pendulum-swing manifests in everything; the measure of the swing to the right is the measure of the swing to the left; rhythm compensates.”This Principle embodies the truth that in everything there is manifested a measured motion, to and fro; a flow and inflow; a swing backward and forward; a pendulum-like movement; a tide-like ebb and flow; a high-tide and low-tide.


is this only a half truth, are there some things that dont flow?

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Re: Question about Hermeticism

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You make your own reality, you choose what to believe, your reality is designed by your beliefs, haven't rad the full book, but relative to the question , i think you should consider the truth whatever you believe. Dont assume true cause someone told you too, make your own truths and beliefs. What you Believe is Real...
"Belief is a tool, impossibility is a possibility"

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Re: Question about Hermeticism

Post by Desecrated »

VenusianEchoes wrote:
The question I have here is, to what extent is objective reality true?
How would you know if it was true or not?

couldnt science just reject any mistakes and "will" the current knowledge into correctness?
Who says they don't?
I mean, if you jump off the grand canyon, what sort of mental energy is going to prevent death?
If you die in a dream, do you die in real life? If you have a heart attack during a hallucination, do you de from the heart attack or the hallucination?
is this only a half truth, are there some things that dont flow?
The absolute core of the all is probably still. Everything else moves.
But still, how would you know if you are the one moving or the object is moving?

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Re: Question about Hermeticism

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Read my post here, may awser you some questions
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 13&t=39383

Now About this
If you die in a dream, do you die in real life? If you have a heart attack during a hallucination, do you de from the heart attack or the hallucination?
If you die in a dream you dont die in real life, now hallucinations may or may not kill you, because in a dream the whole dream world is created by your subconciousness, and for example if you die in your dream is like a subconciousness GAME OVER , the dream world shutsdown,so you have no danger, the only danger about lucid dreaming is becoming lost in reality, cant know what is real and what isn't. while in a hallucination your body is there your mind isnt, so if your are hallucinating with a different world and for example jump to a watterfall just to take a bath, in the real world that watterfall may be your window , and you are jumping into death, hallucinations depend on a lot of factors.
"Belief is a tool, impossibility is a possibility"

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Re: Question about Hermeticism

Post by Desecrated »

NinjaRoot wrote:Read my post here, may awser you some questions
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 13&t=39383

Now About this
If you die in a dream, do you die in real life? If you have a heart attack during a hallucination, do you de from the heart attack or the hallucination?
If you die in a dream you dont die in real life, now hallucinations may or may not kill you, because in a dream the whole dream world is created by your subconciousness, and for example if you die in your dream is like a subconciousness GAME OVER , the dream world shutsdown,so you have no danger, the only danger about lucid dreaming is becoming lost in reality, cant know what is real and what isn't. while in a hallucination your body is there your mind isnt, so if your are hallucinating with a different world and for example jump to a watterfall just to take a bath, in the real world that watterfall may be your window , and you are jumping into death, hallucinations depend on a lot of factors.
So reality is just where we keep our consciousness. I kinda like that.

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Re: Question about Hermeticism

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Desecrated wrote:
VenusianEchoes wrote:
The question I have here is, to what extent is objective reality true?
How would you know if it was true or not?
Its impossible to know for sure if reality is absolutely true. However there is a track record with science that I will get into later. I would bring up my grand canyon example again. I genuinely believe that if you are falling, you will die upon impact. I dont think gravity is something that is willed upon by the scientific community because they still struggle to understand it, but they are able to explain effects of it.

Who says they don't?
If they are willing scientific truths into reality, what effect does that have on me? Does my awareness of their "will" matter? When I was young I had no knowledge of biological evolution or computer science. But it didnt change the fact that computers existed and biological evolution seemingly takes place

If you die in a dream, do you die in real life? If you have a heart attack during a hallucination, do you de from the heart attack or the hallucination?
I think if you die in a dream, you die in a dream but not necessarily in physical form. However, the hallucination argument is pretty solid.
is this only a half truth, are there some things that dont flow?

The absolute core of the all is probably still. Everything else moves.
But still, how would you know if you are the one moving or the object is moving?
So, the All is the one who does not follow the hermetic principles? Is that where the half truth fits into all of them? I think that could reconcile the core aspect of the question. Does the all follow the principle of gender for example?

Thanks in advance for answering my questions. I know many people into the occult who wont even think about such things and get intimidated when confronted with such things. I am not asking to disprove or to discredit hermeticism or any form of the occult. My interest is genuine. I do have a history with the occult but I went to Atheism and my feelings lately have been drawing me back so I need some answers :)

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Re: Question about Hermeticism

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Yes , be aware that there are also hallucinations that due to the type of Hallucinogenic, that freezes your body in those ones you cant die, you can only become lost, because in those ones what you move is not your ritual body but yes your spiritual one, so hallucinations where your real body actually moves are DANGEROUS and may kill you, the other ones where you travel with your spiritual body Wont! unless as i said you become lost in reality, and start living with your spiritual body instead of the real one.
"Belief is a tool, impossibility is a possibility"

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Re: Question about Hermeticism

Post by Haelos »

I should have responded to this sooner..
Everything in this thread is so.. wrong.. and improper, that I don't even know where to begin or who to correct first..

VenusianEchoes wrote: I have several questions:

THE PRINCIPLE OF MENTALISM.

"THE ALL is MIND; The Universe is Mental."This Principle embodies the truth that "All is Mind."It explains that THE ALL (which is the Substantial Reality underlying all the outward manifestations and appearances which we know under the terms of "The Material Universe"; the "Phenomena of Life"; "Matter"; "Energy"; and, in short, all that is apparent to our material senses) is SPIRIT...


The question I have here is, to what extent is objective reality true? Science finds patterns that are consistent, and science often uproots its self because it needs to peer review and it will find mistakes in its thinking, later revealing something that is closer to truth. if it were merely mental, couldnt science just reject any mistakes and "will" the current knowledge into correctness?

I mean, if you jump off the grand canyon, what sort of mental energy is going to prevent death? I feel like Empiricism and science has a track record because it is on to something. I dont think science is everything, but its one thing that seems to work quite consistently, without hiding details.
First off, I don't know how your question relates to this principle, even in the slightest.
This statement is referring to the fact that The Universe, God, Tao, Reality, Existence (whatever your name for it), THE ALL, is Mind. As in, it's just one giant brain, working in a similar fashion to your own mental capacities, just on a much larger scale.

Just because something is mental in nature doesn't make its properties any less fixed.

Do the principles of hermeticism apply to themselves?

If all truths are but half truths, what do we say about the truths found in the hermetic principles?


is this only a half truth, are there some things that dont flow?
Desecrated answered this one well.
The Nameless is both outside the Universe, and IS the Universe, and at it's core, it's still. Everything else in existence flows between the two poles of duality.


Don't take the Kybalion as Hermeticism.
It is not.
In fact, most Hermeticists would argue that the entire book itself is only a half-truth.
It paints a picture, but by no means consider your homework done.
Any of you.



I have things to do. If this thread continues to derail, I'll respond in kind to where it's needed.
Please practice what you're reading, people..




MNNTR.R
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Re: Question about Hermeticism

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Its impossible to know for sure if reality is absolutely true. However there is a track record with science that I will get into later. I would bring up my grand canyon example again. I genuinely believe that if you are falling, you will die upon impact. I dont think gravity is something that is willed upon by the scientific community because they still struggle to understand it, but they are able to explain effects of it.
But who reads that record? Even if science created a perfect machine that would give us exact numbers of mathematical facts of materialism, It' still the human mind reading it.

Do human experience gravity, or have we willed it into existence? That's a really good question. Maybe it's so hard to learn how to walk and we fall over so often that we think there is a gravitational force holding us down and we program that into our mind to such a belief that we really can't break it later in life.
OR, so many people believe in it that it has become reality?

If they are willing scientific truths into reality, what effect does that have on me? Does my awareness of their "will" matter? When I was young I had no knowledge of biological evolution or computer science. But it didnt change the fact that computers existed and biological evolution seemingly takes place
How do you know? Because somebody told you so? What is your proof that they existed before you?


Thanks in advance for answering my questions. I know many people into the occult who wont even think about such things and get intimidated when confronted with such things. I am not asking to disprove or to discredit hermeticism or any form of the occult. My interest is genuine. I do have a history with the occult but I went to Atheism and my feelings lately have been drawing me back so I need some answers :)
There are a lot of atheist occultists. Just because you are an atheist doesn't mean you have to be a materialistic skeptic.

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Re: Question about Hermeticism

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Haelos wrote: Don't take the Kybalion as Hermeticism.
It is not.
In fact, most Hermeticists would argue that the entire book itself is only a half-truth.
It paints a picture, but by no means consider your homework done.
Any of you.
It is a known fact that the kybalion is a modern fake. It's just that it is a good analogy.

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Re: Question about Hermeticism

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Haelos wrote:
Just because something is mental in nature doesn't make its properties any less fixed.
Well, that is also a possibility.
But it's kinda boring isn't it? If we are going to suspend the belief in materialism, why not have some fun with it?

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Re: Question about Hermeticism

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VenusianEchoes wrote:The question I have here is, to what extent is objective reality true? Science finds patterns that are consistent, and science often uproots its self because it needs to peer review and it will find mistakes in its thinking, later revealing something that is closer to truth. if it were merely mental, couldnt science just reject any mistakes and "will" the current knowledge into correctness?

I mean, if you jump off the grand canyon, what sort of mental energy is going to prevent death? I feel like Empiricism and science has a track record because it is on to something. I dont think science is everything, but its one thing that seems to work quite consistently, without hiding details.
There is an objective universe that we all share, and then you own subjective universe. The two can have a major impact on each other, and each subjective universe can impact another. Science studies just the objective universe, whereas occultism includes the study of subjective universes (as does psychology). However, even simple skepticism understands that there is no way to observe the objective universe besides through the lense of the subjective universe. You could be a brain in a vat, or god itself imagining absolutely everything. The only reason we accept the objective universe is because others can agree on it and things of that nature, but can you objectively prove, free of your own subjective universe, that anyone besides you exists? "I think therefore I am" is the the one truth we can really accept, at least as far as scientism and materialism and such. The occultist understands this possible solispism as well, but understands that not only do I exist, but you exist in some way whether free of me or not, and the source that we come from exists.
is this only a half truth, are there some things that dont flow?
The Hermetic texts give a very biased view to the mystical, right hand path, solar ideologies that have been common throughout human history. It gives one specific view, and takes it premises as axiomatic truths. So yes, when we look at half truths we see that Hermeticism provides half the picture, but the traditional hermetic practioner will say that the principles are axiomatic and so hold true despite it all. The fact is there are some things that don't flow, unnatural aspects of nature that don't fit with the deterministic, machine line nature of the objective universe. The human mind is one such example.
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Re: Question about Hermeticism

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Hadit wrote:The fact is there are some things that don't flow, unnatural aspects of nature that don't fit with the deterministic, machine line nature of the objective universe. The human mind is one such example.
The Human Mind / Consciousness is the *ONLY* such object.
And the Hermetic sciences even provide the answer to such a paradox, as humans are the only entities in existence to be tetra-polar in nature.


That statement itself was very biased.
Hermeticism takes aspects of Duality and Non-duality into account. You cannot relate the core teachings to your average solar cult, as you so simply state.
Hermeticism is not magick, or theology, or any derivative of theory or practice. Hermetics is What Works. Plain and simple. If it doesn't work, it isn't Hermeticism and it wasn't taught by Hermes or any of His followers.
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Re: Question about Hermeticism

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Haelos wrote:
Hadit wrote:The fact is there are some things that don't flow, unnatural aspects of nature that don't fit with the deterministic, machine line nature of the objective universe. The human mind is one such example.
The Human Mind / Consciousness is the *ONLY* such object.
And the Hermetic sciences even provide the answer to such a paradox, as humans are the only entities in existence to be tetra-polar in nature.


That statement itself was very biased.
Hermeticism takes aspects of Duality and Non-duality into account. You cannot relate the core teachings to your average solar cult, as you so simply state.
Hermeticism is not magick, or theology, or any derivative of theory or practice. Hermetics is What Works. Plain and simple. If it doesn't work, it isn't Hermeticism and it wasn't taught by Hermes or any of His followers.
It's the only example we know of. It's irrelevant whether this is special to humans or not.

Hermeticism is also a clearly non dual philosophy when you get down to it. The goal is union with the All.
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Re: Question about Hermeticism

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VenusianEchoes wrote: Do the principles of hermeticism apply to themselves?

If all truths are but half truths, what do we say about the truths found in the hermetic principles?
The scientific law of gravity dictates that everything stays on the ground because, to put it simply, gravity. Yet machines like airplanes and helicopters fly, because they use other scientific laws to get around the law of gravity a little bit; manipulating different principles to "bend" one otherwise solid one. Thus, all natural principles (physical and non-physical) are interrelated and apply to one another in many ways. Indeed, it is the precise combination of different principles that allow for the creation of Magical Formulae.

And there are far more natural principles than those dictated in the Kybalion, just as there are far more scientific principles than those dictated in a "physics for dummies" book.
VenusianEchoes wrote: V. THE PRINCIPLE OF RHYTHM


“Everything flows, out and in; everything has its tides; all things rise and fall; the pendulum-swing manifests in everything; the measure of the swing to the right is the measure of the swing to the left; rhythm compensates.”This Principle embodies the truth that in everything there is manifested a measured motion, to and fro; a flow and inflow; a swing backward and forward; a pendulum-like movement; a tide-like ebb and flow; a high-tide and low-tide.


is this only a half truth, are there some things that dont flow?
Water turns to ice, which is static. Ice turns to water, which is fluid. Water evaporates into air, which condenses back into water that turns back into ice.

Within stillness, there is movement. Within movement, there is stillness.



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Re: Question about Hermeticism

Post by WillowDarkWytch »

Motumbá Àse

The principle of Mind is not talking about our mind, but the The ALL's mind, God's mind, The Great Spitit's mind, Olodumare's mind...etc The Universe is a thought of the ALL, an idea, maybe we've been living in a fraction of a second of the All's thought. We don't know that. All we know is that everything we see here is part of the Maya, which is also "not real". Sometimes one needs to read from different sources to understand one.

The principle of Rythm and the principle of Vibration. Everything flows, everything. The thing is that sometimes is so slow that can't be percieved. The same with movement. Everything moves, everything is in movement, but sometimes is so slow that seems stillness.

The Kybalion whether it's new or old, it doesn't matter, it's a good book and great for study. Normally people think they'd understand it, but when they read it again they realise that the just got a tiny part of it. It's not "textual" one needs to know how to read between lines, and that makes it very complete.

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PS edit: Sorry, but the Kybalion IS a text of Hermeticism. It's a book that sort of resumes Hermetic knowledge. I do agree that is not THE text of Hermeticism, but it is one of many, and a good one, as I said. Is not to be taken litteraly and "logically". It's to be meditated
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Re: Question about Hermeticism

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WillowDarkWytch wrote: The principle of Rythm and the principle of Vibration. Everything flows, everything. The thing is that sometimes is so slow that can't be percieved. The same with movement. Everything moves, everything is in movement, but sometimes is so slow that seems stillness.
And sometimes, things are moving/vibrating so *quickly that it seems to be standing still.



Off topic
Im really beginning to hate this damn forum.
Get a fucking mobile site already. The coding in this site is freaking atrocious and im about track down and murder the admin.
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Re: Question about Hermeticism

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Off topic
Im really beginning to hate this damn forum.
Get a fucking mobile site already. The coding in this site is freaking atrocious and im about track down and murder the admin.
Sure you are. Good luck with that.

Got a request? A problem that could be addressed, maybe?

There are better ways to ask about something.

Vashta will be equally delighted about your empty threat I'm sure, hilarious as you are, Haelos. Why don't you get a laptop or PC? Equally valid assertions/ solution, lol.

I don't know about mobile access as I don't code the site, but a polite request might achieve a more constructive answer regarding this matter.
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Re: Question about Hermeticism

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Tell me what you know about darkness, and I will tell you about the light.
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Re: Question about Hermeticism

Post by VenusianEchoes »

what is a "solar cult", specifically?

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Re: Question about Hermeticism

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VenusianEchoes wrote:what is a "solar cult", specifically?
It's a mostly academic term broadly used to describe any group that worships a solar deity. The Temple of Ra or the general worship of Amun-Ra in Egypt is a basic example, and there are many other groups including present day groups who similarly focus upon solar work.



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Re: Question about Hermeticism

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VenusianEchoes wrote:what is a "solar cult", specifically?
A western right hand path religion.
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Re: Question about Hermeticism

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Well, this is just a theory.

Time and space are illusions, and the only thing that truly exists is consciousness.

At the most fundamental level this would be the mind of God, AKA The ALL.

The ALL would not exist in a static Eternal state, and obviously not in any linear time construct.

It would go though states of expansion and retraction. This would be analogous to days and nights on a smaller scale.
Or even states of sleep and wakefulness. Every thing mirrored from the source on a smaller scale.
This is also the underlying concept of Fractal patterns.

Back to time and space and the non-existence of it. Hard to imagine?
Well, here's an example of how we create are own time and space as the ALL does, but on a lower arc:

When we dream, there is the illusion of space and time created by us. But this illusion of space and time
only exists within the single point of our consciousness. The inner dimensions, or the Within as opposed to the Without.

Our 4D reality is akin to this, but is projected by an infinitely more powerful mind. The ALL.

The Singularity, or God Dot is the sleeping mind of the ALL. This is the pre-cursor to the Big Bang.
This God Dot, AKA Kether becomes active from it's microcosmic state, and through the expansion of it,
the Microcosm becomes the Macrocosm. And our 4D reality is initiated into a process of Cosmic anabolism.
Which takes eons to arrive at the manifested world we know today.

Well, I have to get some chores done so I can get ready for my Shamanic Journey, Have fun.

Peace

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Re: Question about Hermeticism

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Haelos wrote:
And sometimes, things are moving/vibrating so *quickly that it seems to be standing still.
Excactly! [thumbup]
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Re: Question about Hermeticism

Post by Hadit »

This seems relevant:

https://youtu.be/mu5URbh-Lh0
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