Astral to Physical Pain - How?

[VoidWanderer]

I dreamed I was trying to shoot a tentacle from some sea monster, that I missed, and that the tentacle launched at me and hit me on the left side of my face. I felt like something drained from me as I started to wake up (maybe dream blood?). When I was finally awake I felt like there was a wound on the spot where the tentacle hit me but it disappeared/"healed" within about a second. It was definitely there though. I felt it. I've heard accounts of reincarnated humans retaining scars or marks from previous lives and I bet that's related.

From my understanding the astral for the dead is very similar to the dream realm. Does anyone have any information on this phenomenon? I'm trying to study the Tree of Life. I need to figure out how the astral connects to the physical so I can understand how to more efficiently draw energy from it / source / or wherever energy comes from. The physical and astral seem very connected but how eludes me.

See, I can only search for what I think I need to search for, so it would help me get an understanding faster (and a more well rounded perspective) if you guys could provide me with your experiences and contradict each other as much as possible so that I get as many leads on this study as I can. I'm not asking for knowledge on a golden platter (you can give me that though if you want [grin] ), I just need a few leads. In my experience it's physically impossible to describe magick fully anyway, that's why everyone seems to have a different explanation for everything.

If you can point me to a book or something in a non english language, I'm willing to learn the language to read it; culture and language seems to force ideas into a cage. Heck, I looked into reading Egyption hieroglyphs and that didn't even look that bad. I already know a second language so a third, fourth, etc wouldn't be too much of a mind trip.

[Desecrated]

Here is some information on how the different realms connect to each other:

http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 17&t=39647

[CCoburn]

You got a couple things going on here. You got the Macrocosm which is
everything outward from your consciousness(the Without). Then you got
the Microcosm, which begins on the outer most layer of your consciousness,
and moves inwards. This is the Magician himself. His Microcosmic Universe.
(The Within, in Magick terms). A lot, but not all experiences take place within
your own inner Universe, like dreams. Although possible to go OBE and project
outward into the Macrocosm.

I think both of these Universes use Vibrations, and Frequency for input and
output. Brainwave frequencies for the microcosm, and propagation of EM
Forces in the Macrocosm.

I would say your experience took place in your own inner Microcosmic
Universe. From inner Consciousness to physical manifestation. Via the
only way I can think of at the moment would be energetic transfer from
Vibration to frequency decoded by your consciousness.

It's also true that the Microcosmic Universe. and some aspects of the Macrocosm
might conform to the laws of Quantum Mechanics, where Macrocosmic laws don't apply.
No propagation of forces needed, Particles/Entities just being entangled through some
sort of Godfield. Connected so that what one projects the other receives instantaneously,
no propagation needed.

In the Quantum world, and perhaps the Microcosm/Macrocosm. Absurdities can be true. I call this
"truth transcending reason". This is where Magick comes in handy to progress further.

I wrote this down in a hurry. It's just a few ideas.

Peace

[CCoburn]

I think it's also common for entities in the Macrocosm to attack
you while you are sleeping because you are more vulnerable.

Here you go from Macrocosmic stimulus sensory input to
manifestation in consciousness.

[VoidWanderer]

Desecrated, thanks, that gave me a rough view.

Spida, I think you're right about the macrocosm attacking while during sleep. However, the whole point of sleep is rest, and if entities can attack you more while you sleep, that makes me wonder why we sleep at all. It reminds me of how astral projectors often say that they lose consciousness (and their astral memories) in the astral if they don't return to their bodies early enough. It also makes me think of how Franz Bardon's evocation book states that a magician needs to change his vibration to fit where he wants to go or he can become paralyzed by the presence of spirits on higher planes.

To me, I don't think that entities attack you any more while you sleep as they do while you're awake. It's just that human perception works on changes in the environment. Once the spirits have fed on you all day, you think, "Oh, sleep time", but really you've just been damaged to a point where you're being put to sleep like being hit with a drug. I think that sleeping is like taking the fight to the invisible macrocosm; you can't both be here in the physical with laws, AND the world with laws, so you switch modes. It's kind of like how meditation reduces your thoughts by resisting them without getting "absorbed", and meditation can often replace sleep. Really, what is sleep? Elemental rebalance?

The rest of your stuff I don't really grasp (regarding quantum entanglement, etc, I don't have much science education). I just see a bunch of observations. See, the way I see it, logic is just as much of a belief as any religion (not that it isn't useful, religion can be useful too). It doesn't work because it has to start somewhere and that start has to be illogical. Like, it works in context, but the moment you move out of the context, the "laws" (consistent observations) don't have to stay the same. It's like something is keeping physics functional as time progresses (and I don't see time as linear at all), and the astral doesn't have physics, so this "thing" that enforces it is gone. It seems like irrationality makes rationality possible, and I'm trying to understand the irrationality using my out of context rationality which makes learning only possible by first hand experience.

I think the whole system of things relies on the consciousness somehow because I've tried magick and I can say it seems to work irrationally. It's like there's some law object sitting somewhere that gives arbitrary laws, but the laws only apply to the things that already exist, so if you make a random sigil or something and assign a meaning yourself, then it somehow goes around the law giver.

Maybe I just described what you said using different terminology. I don't know.

I've kind of accepted that stuff inevitably "just happens", but things are still correlated, so I guess what I really wanted to know wasn't a theory of WHY stuff happens, but more of an observation of correspondences so I can extrapolate the patterns myself. Something like Crowley's 777 but written in English and not a pile of riddles. I don't care why something works, I just want to see what it does, and what I have to do to activate it; the logic itself of "why" is a mental fabrication.

Like for example, I've been trying to correspond magick's symbols (such as elements, etc) to physics to try to figure out what the people of the old really meant with their analogies. I've corresponded fire to energy potential (high frequency), water to energy absorption (low frequency), earth to the wave itself in motion, and air to time. But this only applies to earth. If you look at a Qaballistic Tree of Life as a correspondence map, the common perspective is that each Sephirot has it's own full set of elements, so it's like a series of stacked wave forms that have been superimposed. My correspondence method isn't perfect but it works really well (if you google Rationale Scientific Method then that's basically it, the theory in the method is treated as unimportant, only the observations matter). For example, I associate sleep with water, and I know that fire is the opposite of water so I assume it causes insomnia. Therefore, I can predict that taking a cold shower instead of a hot one might help a person cure insomnia by "balancing their elements" (which is a non sense explanation designed to satisfy my mind's illogical love of logic), but my correspondence only works if it works.

The logic is that there is no logic.
I suppose I wasn't specific enough with the sort of answer I was looking for, so here I've cleared it up a bit.

Thank you for your time. You acted as a catalyst in my mind and helped clear my thoughts. If you want to deconstruct my ideas I'd appreciate that as well. I enjoy intellectual fights. [grin]

[CCoburn]

There's all kinds of stuff in there I could comment on. Some deserving of it's
own topic.

I'll come back to this when I got a bit of time. It's interesting.

Hopefully someone else will chime in on this. Some different perspectives
would be good. I can think of a couple members who might be helpful to you
in this thread. Takes patience I guess.

Regards

[Mage]

Magick assumes that the true reality, in which we are living, is a 22-dimentional space.
This space is usually divided into three planes or levels - the mental plane (12-dimentional space), the astral plane (7-dimentional space) and the physical plane (3-dimentional space).
The human Monad (higher self or soul) is an immortal 22-dimentional object, which is projecting (or, put simply, casting a shadow) onto the mental, astral and physical planes.
The Monad's projection (or "shadow") onto the mental plane is called the mental body; on the astral plane - the astral body; on the physical plane - the physical body.
All changes in the human monad or in the corresponding subtle bodies (mental and astral) have a direct effect on the physical body.
During awakeness, the human consciousness is usually located in the physical body, which is why one realizes all that is going on here, on the physical plane.
However, during sleep the human consciousness switches over to the astral body. Dreams have to do with being on the astral plane.
If the astral body is damaged during a dream, these damages can be projected onto the physical body.
This, however, concerns mostly just Mages, whose astral bodies are dense enough for various interactions on the astral plane to affect them.
Ordinary people have Astral bodies of such a low dencity they look like clouds on the astral plane, which is why nothing threatens them there.