Call to the Dead (For Energy)

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blindwake
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Call to the Dead (For Energy)

Post by blindwake »

Assuming that spirits can be trapped here at Earth (from death) but not necessarily be able to incarnate because perhaps a result of a lack of open bodies (why incarnate if not only because you can't make your own vessel elsewhere?), would the feeding spirits not help a man or woman, true of heart, that would like to make the spirits bodies from nothing?

If there are so many spirits out there that feed for energy, would they not give a magickian the a little bit of their scarce energy if he/she offered to give them energy back later in return? No pact, just a promise of exchanging aid. No soul bond, just a good will. If a magickian could gather enough dead souls to his cause, would he not theoretically be able to make them all bodies from nothing if the dead beings helped develop the mage to an incredible grade of strength? To be able to take spirit (akasa) and mold it into manifest matter by transmutation? I'm sure that many spirits would be perfectly happy even with physical offerings presented by the mage (return energy as thanks).

It'd be like energy taxes where everybody pitches in and everybody gets a cut later on. Do you think it would be possible to gather dead souls like this in order to perform necromancy and create loyal allies? I don't actually see any reason why a spirit would bother helping a weak magickian become stronger at all unless they gave to the magickian the benefit of the doubt that the mage would return the favor and raise the spirit's strength later on.

Bardon mentions something like this in his book on practical evocation. Does anyone have anything to add to this subject?

I've already made a few vague calls for spiritual aid and friendship and I feel like my body is starting to light on fire from slow but steady accumulation of energy. I would assume that the only prerequisite to making a call for help from the dead (with the intention of inevitably raising them) would be to make yourself visible to them. Perhaps a sigil could be developed as a power beacon in this way?

However, I would also assume that if the spirits were so kind as to aid the magickian, any faltering from his path would likely cause the spirits to destroy him out of anger. I think I'm walking a very dangerous route right now. Though if a magickian could use the energy given to him to shield himself, I doubt the mostly weak spirits would be able to coordinate an effective attack once the magickian has already used energy to learn to protect himself energetically.

This whole ordeal kind of reminds me of classical elemental summoning, and even the LRP where the "angels" are summoned at the quarters. If a human is mostly physical and lacking energy to do non physical things (like magick) it makes me wonder where the initial energy for magickal development comes at all.

Any thoughts? Expansions? Advice on how to summon more energy (from weak spirits) safely?
If all brains are made roughly the same, then why do I perceive through my own? What special characteristic places me in this skull?
I do not move throughout the world. The engines do not move the ship, but the universe.
The law of synonyms: my experience is synonymous with my brain, I change my experience to change my brain. so I change the physical with my thoughts.

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Re: Call to the Dead (For Energy)

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Yeah, this is basically necromancy. It's highly morally wrong since your basically eating their souls, but yeah, I've heard of it a couple of time. The problem is getting the energy out of them without getting the spiritual form into you. Just going around and eating ghosts would make you possessed in a heartbeat.

There was a guy who had a spiritbox for transformation, it was basically a box with vine and food in the opening to attract spirits, then inside he had nails/shards of glass and things like that so that the spirits would be shredded from their spirits form into pure energy, and then drawn out the backside and into his power reservoir.

I would look into Chinese necromancy. They probably have some way of transforming a ghost into pure Qi.

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Re: Call to the Dead (For Energy)

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I'm not talking about eating souls though. I was thinking more along the lines of holding hands with spirits and asking for energy out of good will; like having a swarm of spirits channel into you with a healing hand. I see nothing morally wrong about this at all. I'm not forcing spirits to do anything. It's more like me posing as a light to flies.

Obviously you could get possessed, but I'm sure a basic shield would be enough as a defense. Do you think a circle and a few strong servitors (like summoning the archangels to the quarters) would be enough?

And what do you mean about different energy types. Can't you transmute energy? Shouldn't physical energy be more dense than spirit energy. If that's the case then why can't you just "decompress" the energy (using spirit energy, not your own) and purify /convert it?

You could probably find more than enough ancestor spirits willing to help.their bloodline. That would avoid the issue of possession (hopefully).
If all brains are made roughly the same, then why do I perceive through my own? What special characteristic places me in this skull?
I do not move throughout the world. The engines do not move the ship, but the universe.
The law of synonyms: my experience is synonymous with my brain, I change my experience to change my brain. so I change the physical with my thoughts.

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Re: Call to the Dead (For Energy)

Post by Desecrated »

blindwake wrote:I'm not talking about eating souls though. I was thinking more along the lines of holding hands with spirits and asking for energy out of good will; like having a swarm of spirits channel into you with a healing hand. I see nothing morally wrong about this at all. I'm not forcing spirits to do anything. It's more like me posing as a light to flies.
They need that energy to sustain themselves, if they gave it to you, they would die.
Isn't the definition of a ghost somebody who is clinging on to life. I think it would be hard to find that many suicidal ghosts. Anyway, they're already dead, just eat them.

Obviously you could get possessed, but I'm sure a basic shield would be enough as a defense. Do you think a circle and a few strong servitors (like summoning the archangels to the quarters) would be enough?[/quote]

It doesn't mater how many locks you have on your windows if you open your door. If you have a circle up, they can't enter or send energy into it. That is what a circle is for.
And what do you mean about different energy types. Can't you transmute energy? Shouldn't physical energy be more dense than spirit energy. If that's the case then why can't you just "decompress" the energy (using spirit energy, not your own) and purify /convert it?
I honestly don't know the answer to that question.
You could probably find more than enough ancestor spirits willing to help.their bloodline. That would avoid the issue of possession (hopefully).
That might work. You probably have to make some kind of deal, you know: returning the energy when you die and become the new guardian or something like that. Which means that you will have to breed as many kids as ancestor that you eat. (universal balance and all that).

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Re: Call to the Dead (For Energy)

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So, basically, the fix to the issue of energy transfer is to do a classic evocation?

Put yourself in a circle and summon things to a triangle?

What if I took a triangle, put offerings in it (physical energy in exchange for spiritual energy), also put an amulet in the triangle, and asked ancestors to fill the amulet with energy. Then I could wear the amulet like a battery. Would this be a decent task for enchanting?

Would a burning candle make a good offering? It would produce physical heat (energy) at a consistent rate.

Not that I actually have the skill to call anything other than seeming "residual" energy (astral trash, probably), but if I could use magick to improve my magick, the results I'm sure would be splendid.

I also don't see an issue with accepting energy through a circle. It's a basic task in psionics to make a shield that can absorb energy. Why not make a circle that "filters" incoming energy? Sit down in a filter sphere.
If all brains are made roughly the same, then why do I perceive through my own? What special characteristic places me in this skull?
I do not move throughout the world. The engines do not move the ship, but the universe.
The law of synonyms: my experience is synonymous with my brain, I change my experience to change my brain. so I change the physical with my thoughts.

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Re: Call to the Dead (For Energy)

Post by Desecrated »

blindwake wrote:So, basically, the fix to the issue of energy transfer is to do a classic evocation?

Put yourself in a circle and summon things to a triangle?

What if I took a triangle, put offerings in it (physical energy in exchange for spiritual energy), also put an amulet in the triangle, and asked ancestors to fill the amulet with energy. Then I could wear the amulet like a battery. Would this be a decent task for enchanting?
Isn't that pretty close to the voodoo spirit bottles? Have them live in the amulet and feed of the residual energy. But yes, circle for you, triangle for object, see if you can convince them jump in.

But then: What protects you when you close down the circle? Worst case scenario you now have a spirit tied to your neck. Then you would have to do something like Solomons brass pot, and once again they can't feed energy through that level of protection. ALSO, remember: Just because something presents itself as an ancestor, friend, ghost or co-operative, Doesn't mean that's the case. Spirits lie, deceive and trick us.
Would a burning candle make a good offering? It would produce physical heat (energy) at a consistent rate.
Candles are always good. If you know what any of your ancestor liked it's even better. Ask your grandparents about their grandparents. Maybe somebody was a huge whiskey fan or another was a chain-smoker.
Money is always a good idea. I have a small collection of money from different time periods so that I can offer them something they would recognize.
I also don't see an issue with accepting energy through a circle. It's a basic task in psionics to make a shield that can absorb energy. Why not make a circle that "filters" incoming energy? Sit down in a filter sphere.
Making a shield that absorbs energy is easy and fine, you can do the same with a circle, basically kill everything that approaches it and use that energy to make it stronger. I don't know how you would make a single circle to both kill, compress, reshape and feed you. That feels like a multi circle setup and you might end up using more energy then you can draw in.

You're looking for an easy fix and there almost never is one. The universe loves balance and equal exchange.
Usually the living have more power than a single spirit, that is why we can call on them and banish them. If they were equally strong we would all be in trouble.
So you probably need a whole bunch of them to equal what you already have. And if you spend all your concentration on holding up multiple circles , shields and servitors at the same time: you're going to need a shitload of spirits. We're talking a whole cemetery or something like that.
But it can't be consecrated ground, so you would have to find a large site with lots of dead bodies that hasn't been properly buried. And, I don't know many "positive" mass-killings. Working with that kind of energy sounds like a really bad idea.

I know somebody who tried to summon spirits on an old execution site. It apparently went very bad, very fast.

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Re: Call to the Dead (For Energy)

Post by blindwake »

So my best bet is to try to find spirits that
A) Were never alive (and don't have a hatred for humans)
B) Are [possibly] willing to "play nice" (ancestors, saints, etc.)

However I doubt any spirits in group A or B would take kindly to me acting as a vampire.

Based on what you're telling me though, I think I'd be better off investing time into learning how to charge my own magick wand. I'm interested in this topic of mass energy retrieval because just recently I gained the ability to feel and manipulate my body's energy (after a while of meditation). I guess what I'm really after is a way to practically harness the energy physically so I can say my training has paid off at least a little. I'm a bit sick of being able to feel energy but not use it. It's like I've stepped into this wonderful world of magick and now I feel terribly weak.

Regarding the spirit in the amulet thing, couldn't you soul bond the spirit so it couldn't escape, but was still useful? Although, I think a soul bond to a friendly and free (but very strong) spirit would be more useful simply linked but not bound to the metal. Kind of like a spirit "quick summon". Again, I might be better off just personally charging an amulet to my needs. Maybe take a fluid condenser and try to imbue a "draw atmospheric energy" effect into it.

And yes, I know, spirits can be malevolent. I don't even listen to my own thoughts because they have a tendency to be easily influenced. I prefer to crush my mental narrative and retain only my pure line of consciousness. Mind on task all the time (unless I'm trying to skry, then the easily influenced thoughts can actually be useful).

I guess you're right, I'm looking for a short cut to the development of my energy bodies, and yeah, I doubt that would end well.

Regarding the circle thing, is it normally hard to apply multiple traits to one energy structure? That could explain why my venture into psionics didn't result in anything (a while ago). I'd try to make an energy structure and then attach as many "generators" to it as possible to make up for my extensive trait list. The structures never lasted very long, or they were very weak (couldn't tangibly feel their electromagnetic static).
If all brains are made roughly the same, then why do I perceive through my own? What special characteristic places me in this skull?
I do not move throughout the world. The engines do not move the ship, but the universe.
The law of synonyms: my experience is synonymous with my brain, I change my experience to change my brain. so I change the physical with my thoughts.

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Re: Call to the Dead (For Energy)

Post by Desecrated »

blindwake wrote:
Based on what you're telling me though, I think I'd be better off investing time into learning how to charge my own magick wand. I'm interested in this topic of mass energy retrieval because just recently I gained the ability to feel and manipulate my body's energy (after a while of meditation).
Yes. this is very common. The easiest way to start with is crystals, because they have an energy in themselves, so all you need to do is be able to feel that and then kinda vibrate in the same frequency and just flow your energy into it, When you want it back, you just vibrate again and draw it in.
Although it is the same as high school physics, to big a battery to a small lamp will make the lamp explode, so you need to fin a stone that is big enough to store the amount of energy you want to be able to drain from it, and also calculate for loss of energy over time. You know like energy to heat and all of that. Thermodynamics.

I guess what I'm really after is a way to practically harness the energy physically so I can say my training has paid off at least a little. I'm a bit sick of being able to feel energy but not use it. It's like I've stepped into this wonderful world of magick and now I feel terribly weak.
That is all in your head. Everybody goes through that phase. This is were you need a little bit of blind faith and just dumb confidence in what you are doing.
And that is very hard when you are used to critical thinking.


Regarding the spirit in the amulet thing, couldn't you soul bond the spirit so it couldn't escape, but was still useful? Although, I think a soul bond to a friendly and free (but very strong) spirit would be more useful simply linked but not bound to the metal. Kind of like a spirit "quick summon". Again, I might be better off just personally charging an amulet to my needs. Maybe take a fluid condenser and try to imbue a "draw atmospheric energy" effect into it.
Binding a spirit to an object isn't hard. There is even a longer thread about it on this forum, with all the instructions.
The problem is just that you now have a spirit bound to an object. Which means that spirit will probably end up being somewhat pissed over the centuries, meaning that you can't release it, so you have successfully created a haunted object with a increasingly angry spirit.
And yes, I know, spirits can be malevolent. I don't even listen to my own thoughts because they have a tendency to be easily influenced. I prefer to crush my mental narrative and retain only my pure line of consciousness. Mind on task all the time (unless I'm trying to skry, then the easily influenced thoughts can actually be useful).

That is why we train. If we all had 100% pure thoughts we would not be on the internet, we would be on some mountain top talking to buddhas.



Regarding the circle thing, is it normally hard to apply multiple traits to one energy structure? That could explain why my venture into psionics didn't result in anything (a while ago). I'd try to make an energy structure and then attach as many "generators" to it as possible to make up for my extensive trait list. The structures never lasted very long, or they were very weak (couldn't tangibly feel their electromagnetic static).
Pure physics, the longer the line, the weaker the signal. If you attach on object to a battery you can power it full charge, if you attach 5 objects you can only power them 20% each. The more complex, the more energy you need.
That is why the circle is such a bellowed tool in the magic world- Once you feed energy into it, it just circles around. In the simplest form known in this universe. Once you put energy into a spherical shape it can pretty much sustain itself for hours.

In acoustic you have 50% loss of db for every 90 degree angle. So when you make an air duct, you do a lot of corners on it. So a 100 db sound that travels through a corridor with 4 angles will be perceived as 25 db on the other end. If you on the other hand use a round air duct, you've basically created a phone and most of the signal will survive through the other end.
So a protective square would be very ineffective, and yet in some of the larger transmutation circles you see both squares and stars and other shapes multilayered with circles. To feed something like that, you need several angels or maybe even a direct line to god.

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