LBRP Versions?

[nox_erebos]

So, in case you haven't guessed, I'm just getting started on this, and I'm thinking it would probably make sense to start with LBRP and some meditation. There's just one problem--I am way too fucking protestant to use the classic Golden Dawn LBRP. Regardie offers rough translation for the qabalistic cross portion, but the four god names? Maybe I'm in the wrong field, but I'm the kind of person who decided to change churches because I thought replacing the carpet with a tile floor was too Catholic. If I can't pronounce it or don't understand it, it is probably not something I should be saying while trying to do magic.

Which leads me to my dilemma. Google has helpfully given me any number of helpful variations on LBRP, but from what I can tell, they're largely people swapping out for various pagan pantheons, or people who feel the classic version is qabalistically lacking, and have revised it with more/different Hebrew.

Does anyone, by any chance, have a Christian-flavored LBRP that's also actually in English? Failing that, does anyone have any advice? Without an LBRP I actually understand, I seem to have a few options:

--Replace the god names with just saying "God" after each pentagram
--Just be silent, because saying "God" four times in a row crosses the border into silliness
--Set aside LBRP until I've read enough on Qabalah that I feel comfortable using the written version
--Give up. The occult is not for people who think Ritz crackers make a perfectly acceptable Host.

[Rin]

Just to clarify, is your objection inherently to the fact that the God-Names are in Hebrew, or just that because they are in Hebrew, you don't know what you are saying when you vibrate them?

[LoneWolf]

The names are how they are for a reason. Not being used to pronounce them or anything similar on a regular basis serve a purpose of getting you a bit out of yourself. Knowing some teological meanings and concepts that tie to them and are connected to many other ideological frames which you will ultimately learn about also serve a purpose. I won't get into the many other metaphysical reasons and considerations which I personally believe are the stronger reasons for keeping the traditions. Try it and you'll see it work and that should be the thing you focus on.

I don't see how hebrew names are a problem. Protestants don't disregard the Old testament, right?

Btw if your ego is still debating which God is stronger or more real I'd recommend you don't poke it with a flaming sword.

Oh and last, that border of silliness is probably what makes your ego crack and from where the light enters you.

[Desecrated]

If I can't pronounce it or don't understand it, it is probably not something I should be saying while trying to do magic.

Then learn how to pronounce it and do the research to understand it.

[Napoli]

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but lately I have also been looking for an LBRP alternative that will use our OWN power. I have tried some Chaos magic techniques but they don't seem to be very effective as the Kabbalistic LBRP. Magic is also about our own empowerment, so I think it makes sense that at least the advanced practitioners can use their own power to fulfill the banishing functions of LBRP.

To the OP, I say you can use natural methods like smudging to cleanse and purify yourself and your ritual space. There are also grounding techniques that uses visualisation although they are pagan in nature. By this I mean using nature (Mother Earth) and her power to help you. For that you don't need to invoke any entities from any spiritual tradition.

Traditional witches rarely cats circles unless they need to. In that case they use land spirits or their own familiars. They can be one's spirit guides and/or ancestors. I am mentioning this because if I remember correctly, the LBRP can be used for casting circles.

[Rin]

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but lately I have also been looking for an LBRP alternative that will use our OWN power. I have tried some Chaos magic techniques but they don't seem to be very effective as the Kabbalistic LBRP. Magic is also about our own empowerment, so I think it makes sense that at least the advanced practitioners can use their own power to fulfill the banishing functions of LBRP.

It depends on what aim you're looking to achieve exactly, since the LBRP has multiple purposes, but you might be interested in the exercises in the first few chapters of IIH (specifically the Third Step, although the first 2 are a prerequisite).

In Step 3, Bardon teaches the accumulation and projection of the vital force, which can achieve a huge number of things including cleansing spaces and driving away negative energies/intelligences, and charging spaces with specific qualities or intentions. He also teaches you to move the energy through your body, which will help to purify your system, which is one of the results of the Qabbalistic Cross portion of the LBRP.

[Napoli]

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but lately I have also been looking for an LBRP alternative that will use our OWN power. I have tried some Chaos magic techniques but they don't seem to be very effective as the Kabbalistic LBRP. Magic is also about our own empowerment, so I think it makes sense that at least the advanced practitioners can use their own power to fulfill the banishing functions of LBRP.

It depends on what aim you're looking to achieve exactly, since the LBRP has multiple purposes, but you might be interested in the exercises in the first few chapters of IIH (specifically the Third Step, although the first 2 are a prerequisite).

In Step 3, Bardon teaches the accumulation and projection of the vital force, which can achieve a huge number of things including cleansing spaces and driving away negative energies/intelligences, and charging spaces with specific qualities or intentions. He also teaches you to move the energy through your body, which will help to purify your system, which is one of the results of the Qabbalistic Cross portion of the LBRP.

Thank you Rin.

[nox_erebos]

Oh man. I go to sleep and suddenly everyone replies. Various communications/follow-ups, grouped roughly by topic:

Just to clarify, is your objection inherently to the fact that the God-Names are in Hebrew, or just that because they are in Hebrew, you don't know what you are saying when you vibrate them?

The names are how they are for a reason. Not being used to pronounce them or anything similar on a regular basis serve a purpose of getting you a bit out of yourself. Knowing some teological meanings and concepts that tie to them and are connected to many other ideological frames which you will ultimately learn about also serve a purpose. I won't get into the many other metaphysical reasons and considerations which I personally believe are the stronger reasons for keeping the traditions. Try it and you'll see it work and that should be the thing you focus on.

I don't see how hebrew names are a problem. Protestants don't disregard the Old testament, right?

The hebrew names aren't a problem theologically. I'm not an expert on Branches of Protestantism, so I can't say they all regard the old testament the same, but mine basically pays attention everything but the various rules, which get thrown out any time they could potentially conflict with instruction from the new testament. (Accordingly, we don't spend a lot of time on it, since every time God gives an instruction, there's a decent chance it's been since overwritten by the whole Jesus thing. ) It's more an issue of working with language I don't understand the nuance of and have to break from visualizing to remember how to pronounce.

If I can't pronounce it or don't understand it, it is probably not something I should be saying while trying to do magic.

Then learn how to pronounce it and do the research to understand it.

That's the vibe I'm getting from people. Set aside trying to do the thing, and spend more time getting comfortable with and understanding the words used and how it ties in.

To the OP, I say you can use natural methods like smudging to cleanse and purify yourself and your ritual space. There are also grounding techniques that uses visualisation although they are pagan in nature. By this I mean using nature (Mother Earth) and her power to help you. For that you don't need to invoke any entities from any spiritual tradition.

Traditional witches rarely cats circles unless they need to. In that case they use land spirits or their own familiars. They can be one's spirit guides and/or ancestors. I am mentioning this because if I remember correctly, the LBRP can be used for casting circles.

Thanks! That's useful information, but my current use of LBRP isn't really a practical "I need to cleanse things ASAP" and more a "this is something I can fishbowl to get the basic techniques involved down that's relatively unlikely to break things when I inevitably mess it up". I'm definitely planning to take a look at smudging at some point, but for right now, it's more about nailing the process than achieving the end product of a cleansed space.