Courtesan Cults...A revival

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Courtesan Cults...A revival

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Original post: SekhemNefer

I was wondering if anyone was interested in reviving the courtesan cults. Quite frankly, since man all started as one ethnic group, I notice that all the Goddesses of the Courtesan Cult are basically all the same. They are water goddesses, goddess of beauty, goddess of femininity, goddess of hedonism and sensuality, fertility goddesses, love goddesses, sex goddesses, goddesses of magic, goddesses of music and dance and perhaps sacred sex or prostitution (whether low or high class prostitution), also, moon goddesses. Hathor, Venus, Aphrodite, Sarasvati, Benzaiten, Bast or Bastet, Kuan Yin, Oshun, Erzulie, Tlazolteotl, Xochiquetzal, Innana, Ishtar, Astarte and Qetesh.....all hold the same attributes that I have listed above.

I find it fascinating that the last of the courtesan cultures are dying. Basically they only exist in India, which is almost dead there but only romanticized through Bollywood "harem" type movies. And then you have the Geisha culture, that is also dying in Japan. Basically, these courtesan cultures have lost their magico-religious rights and are purely for entertainment purposes or used as a cultural icon or curio. Even belly dancing...a temple fertility dance is just now for entertainment purpose which is now just a step up as being respectable "dirty dancing", or not as bad as strip tease, exotic dance or Burlesque.

Now I am not being a prude, because these courtesan goddesses were not timid women who wanted to be a pious as The Virgin Mary, Vesta and Isis. However, embracing the fun of sexuality, these courtesan goddesses reminded people the holistic effects of sexual healing by adding spirituality into the dynamic, hence the medicinal practice of sacred sex, or sex magic.

I don't know, I just see the courtesan cults far different from Covens. The courtesan cults had much more life and energy than these modern day covens. They had a greater social, cultural and political influence by being threaded into society as artists and spiritual leaders and counselors. I am surprised the the feminist who brought back goddess worship are not touching on this subject. Maybe since many times sex is involved and most of it was sex for pay. A subject feminist don't know what to do with for, in their mind, a woman using her body for pay is like bring a woman back to days of being inferior to men...yet women in ancient times who participated in these cults were nothing but inferior. Just like no one considers the Geisha girl "inferior", but a beautiful and powerful icon of femininity and artistic talent, regardless that her livelihood is based on a wealthy man patronizing her welfare. She is nothing but a respectable woman.

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Original post: shadow flame

well good luck in finding enough good looking women who will participate in such cult.
but i'm afraid that you will be hard pressed to find any willing to participate

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Courtesan Cults...A revival

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Original post: Vindictus

Oh, I dont know... Pass it off as a sorority, and there would probably be a few people willing to try to get in. It's really not that much further than working at a strip club to pay for college, and there are plenty of girls who do that.

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Original post: SekhemNefer

I see it hard not to be revived but yet it is. Women have no problem trying to belly dance so they can perform in front of men and lots of chicks, like you said either strip and hell amateur porn is attracting your average woman into become pornstars. Or women still crying over Woe vs. Wade, or how women can't participate in religious clergy. Even if you look online high class prostitution is making a come back. Even some females are calling themselves courtesans. Well, the use of the word is making a comeback, when really these chicks are not courtesans at all. I can go on and debate how sleeping with a wealthy and prominent man does not constitute you being a courtesan. There is a more of social dynamic than just sex with a high powered person. But that's another debate not for this thread.


Anyways, I am not looking for to start "coven" or anything, because meeting women of the same metaphysical interest is damn impossible. I just want to discuss, share and relate any spellcasting, magickal experiences and theories on these Courtesan-Hight Priestess cults that are dedicated to the Goddesses above.

Men are welcomed as well. I know some of the Goddesses had strictly a female audience, but Hathor for instance has male devotees as well.

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Original post: Skeptismo118

Track down a copy of Nikolas and Zeena Schreck's Demons on the Flesh/

Also, anything by Annie Sprinkle and Barbara Carrellas.

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Original post: Vindictus

[QUOTE=SekhemNefer;370901]
Men are welcomed as well. I know some of the Goddesses had strictly a female audience, but Hathor for instance has male devotees as well.[/QUOTE]

So... Does it say anywhere that you have to sleep with guys, or is the gender of your... clients... optional?

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Original post: 1000ShadesofGrey

Check your facts.
Saying that Kwan Yin or Sarasvati had courtesan cults can deeply offend some people.

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/sarasvati_goddess_of_learning.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guan_Yin


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Original post: SekhemNefer

[QUOTE=Vindictus;370968]So... Does it say anywhere that you have to sleep with guys, or is the gender of your... clients... optional?[/QUOTE]

Well, from my understanding from many online readings, in Greece women mostly serviced the men. But in Mesopatemia and Babylon since they were considered "witch doctors" (using modern day terminology that may not fit exactly what went down) they practiced sex magick on anyone who paid them. But typically from what I read, mostly men sought out the service of the Priestess of Astarte and Qetesh.

India had a different dynamic. You were a real courtesan first then a "priestess" or devotee of Sarasvati second. So you main job was to be a sexual companion and entertainer for the men in the royal courts.

In Mexico, the Aztec women, with the Goddesses mentioned above were prostitutes first and priestess second.


I have not so far seen where women were courtesans to other women. And it makes sense for that not to happen. Back in those days, except for a few societies, women didn't have many options as careers and finances. Men made and had most of the money, therefore they were the ones paying for the services, if things got sexual...whether we are talking about low class street prostitution to high class/Royal mistress "prostitution".

Plus, many of these Goddesses are not lesbian or bisexual in their creation myths. Many of the fertility/love/sex goddesses do have God husbands, boyfriends and multiple lovers. By the mere fact we are talking about fertility aka creating a baby through sex...it stand to suggest that sacred sex rituals were very heterosexual. A celebration between the attraction between man and woman. Isis seduced Orisis. Hathor seduced Horus.

Oshun seduces men. Many of the Aztec female goddess seduces men. Just stories of female and men seducing each other.


I haven't heard of a courtesan-high priestess court surrounded on bisexual or homosexuality. If you have...enlighten me.

In addition, I assume that effiminate gay males, may or may not be part of the courtesan cults and considered one of the girls. Especially, if they are eunachs. I think this went on on Greece and Persia.

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Original post: SekhemNefer

[QUOTE=1000ShadesofGrey;371073]Check your facts.
Saying that Kwan Yin or Sarasvati had courtesan cults can deeply offend some people.

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/sarasvati_goddess_of_learning.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guan_Yin

[/QUOTE]



Actually, I have checked my facts. I discussed this with some Asians. How can it be offensive, when Saravasti is the epitome of a courtesan?

Maybe you think it offends because with Western thinking courtesan is only knowns as prostitution and we have nothing today to actually, or accurately compare it to. Just like people are argue that being a Geisha girl is a prostitute, if you consider accepting money for sexual attention, companionship or intercourse as prostitution in general. Yet the Japanese will beg to differ. To them prostitution is more than accepting money, but is something has a level of class or not, which would make something profane or not. Since to them, a geisha girl is a talented, beautiful and classy woman with social graces, she is not a prostitute, regardless of being a paid companion versus some other woman who is not trained in the fine arts of music, poetry and dance.

It was no different in India and China as well. The only people who would be offended are probably Indians and Chinese people who are westernized and educated and now think that some aspects of their traditional culture is like a taboo, based on them using Western ideals on "moral" and "immoral" when it comes to certain sexual practices.

And I am not saying that Sarasvati only belong and was only worshipped by courtesans, but courtesans did devote themselves to these Goddesses, since a courtesan's world is about being an expertise in the arts. Sarasvati is the Artistic Goddess. Yeah, medical or law students who want to do well on a in passing their study exam will pray to Sarasvati as well.

Sarasvati, Kuan yin and Benten (or Benzaiten) is really the same Hindu/Buddhist Goddess. Different countries, different names, but same Goddess.

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Original post: SekhemNefer

[QUOTE=Skeptismo118;370955]Track down a copy of Nikolas and Zeena Schreck's Demons on the Flesh/

Also, anything by Annie Sprinkle and Barbara Carrellas.[/QUOTE]

I will!

If anyone is interested please get your hands on a 1960s movie called "Satryicon" by Federico Fellini. Basically, it is a artsy - fartsy movie on the cultural relationship between Rome, Greece and Egypt. The characters of the story travel to each country. And there is lots of scenes that show the different women fertility/courtesan/sacred sex cults in each country. It is a really provocative movie for its day. It was censored and banned in America.

Maybe look it up on Youtube.

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Original post: Azkanon Darastrix

[QUOTE=SekhemNefer;371237]
Maybe you think it offends because with Western thinking courtesan is only knowns as prostitution and we have nothing today to actually, or accurately compare it to. Just like people are argue that being a Geisha girl is a prostitute, if you consider accepting money for sexual attention, companionship or intercourse as prostitution in general. Yet the Japanese will beg to differ. To them prostitution is more than accepting money, but is something has a level of class or not, which would make something profane or not. Since to them, a geisha girl is a talented, beautiful and classy woman with social graces, she is not a prostitute, regardless of being a paid companion versus some other woman who is not trained in the fine arts of music, poetry and dance.

...

Sarasvati, Kuan yin and Benten (or Benzaiten) is really the same Hindu/Buddhist Goddess. Different countries, different names, but same Goddess.[/QUOTE]

OK a few quick things I can correct as someone who takes studying Japanese culture fairly seriously.
Firstly- its very rude to refer to a Geisha as "a geisha girl." After WWII, American Soldiers called any prostitue a "geisha girl" which is why most Americans have the idea that to be a geisha is to be a prostitute. Geiko-san (Geiko being another word for Geisha) are artists, dancers, musicians and companions. They are skilled in small talk and entertaining. A Geiko-san´s training and job does not involve sex. (This is a very big misconception, since it does play into the novel Memoirs of a Geisha, but the man who wrote it is American and very very sketchy)
Geiko-san are not payed sexual companions. They are simply companions, skilled in entertaining.

Secondly, Sarasvati, Gwan Yin and Benten are not the same deity.
Sarasvati is a Hindu goddess of the arts, particularly writing (as far as I have learned, this may be slightly incorrect)

Gwan Yin (or Kwan Yin) is the female, Chinese equivalent bodhisattva to the Indian Avalokiteshvara (Lord of Compassionate Sight). Both Gwan Yin and Avalokiteshvara are bodhisattvas of compassion and mercy. Gwan Yin is also associated with children and vegetarianism. She is not a patron of the arts or anything having to do with being a courtesan.

The Japanese boosatsu (bodhisattva) equivalent to Gwan Yin is called Kannon or Kwannon. She is also a boosatsu of compassion.

Benten, or Benzaiten, is one of the Shichi Fukujin, or Seven Lucky Gods (opr Seven Gods of Good Fortune.) Benten is the only female member of the Shichifukujin. Benzaiten is the Japanese equivalent to Sarasvati, as a patroness of riches, music, eloquence and water, and later, after being added to the Shichifukujin did she become a deity of good fortune. While Benten is often sen holding an instument, it is a biwa or lute. The instument typical of Geiko-san is a shamisen (also called a lute, though a shamisen looks more like a banjo)

Just trying to clear some stuff up. I mean no offense, I´m just trying to get some facts straight.

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Original post: Centrix

What's with westerners and Japanese obsessions...

Not that there's anything wrong with Japanese or asian culture.

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Original post: funquie

Actually, I was with an OTO group for about 3 years that was sort of on this path. Our Camp was founded on the works of Jack Parsons, and used his Babalon Working as a fundamental operating motivator behind most of what we did. And because of this focus on the 156 (Babalon) Current, there were several of us (men and women) who took on that "Priestess/Priest of Babalon" role in various operations. Although most of that group's "workings" were, by proscription, NOT official OTO events (due to the methods being used in our operations), we had a lot of fun, did some TREMENDOUS work, and expanded a lot of minds in the process...

If I could find other people in my area who were of a like mind, I would be all for creating a Magickal group (coven, camp, circle, hive, whatever) that was focused on Sacred Sexuality, and manifesting this sort of current in the greater world at large.

But I live in North Carolina. I honestly doubt that there are half a dozen other people in this entire state that 1) have the self-confidence and sexual liberation to effectively do this, and 2) are magickally, intellectually, and spiritually adept enough to even CONSIDER this sort of work. Shit, about 99% of the people in this state think any group that doesn't have a cross on it's roof is "Satanic", and I don't mean that in the good way...

It's funny. There are a LOT of "swingers" down here in the "Bible Belt", especially around the big military bases. And there ARE pockets of Pagans of various types, especially in the cities where there are large univerities. But most of the Pagans I know (and I've been in this game for 20+ years) are as sexually hung-up as most Christians and see Ritualized Sex or (Sexualized Rituals) as a BIG no-no.

And most of the Swingers I've met, interestingly enough, consider themselves to be members in good standing of mainstream churches like Baptists, Lutherans, or Catholics, and the idea of bringing spirituality or Magick into their sex lives is just WRONG. They'll fuck a room full of strangers, but the minute you light some incence and draw a sigil on your parner's ass, it's perverted and evil somehow...

I'm just working hard to undo the buckle on the Bible Belt... :evil:

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Original post: Azkanon Darastrix

[QUOTE=Centrix;372913]What's with westerners and Japanese obsessions...

Not that there's anything wrong with Japanese or asian culture.[/QUOTE]

<==== Self proclaimed Japanophile. Honestly, I dont really get it (my "obscession," it isn´t really an obscession) either.

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Original post: Miss_Stoic
funquie;373007 wrote:Actually, I was with an OTO group for about 3 years that was sort of on this path. Our Camp was founded on the works of Jack Parsons, and used his Babalon Working as a fundamental operating motivator behind most of what we did. And because of this focus on the 156 (Babalon) Current, there were several of us (men and women) who took on that "Priestess/Priest of Babalon" role in various operations. Although most of that group's "workings" were, by proscription, NOT official OTO events (due to the methods being used in our operations), we had a lot of fun, did some TREMENDOUS work, and expanded a lot of minds in the process...

If I could find other people in my area who were of a like mind, I would be all for creating a Magickal group (coven, camp, circle, hive, whatever) that was focused on Sacred Sexuality, and manifesting this sort of current in the greater world at large....

It's funny. There are a LOT of "swingers" down here in the "Bible Belt", especially around the big military bases. And there ARE pockets of Pagans of various types, especially in the cities where there are large univerities. But most of the Pagans I know (and I've been in this game for 20+ years) are as sexually hung-up as most Christians and see Ritualized Sex or (Sexualized Rituals) as a BIG no-no.

And most of the Swingers I've met, interestingly enough, consider themselves to be members in good standing of mainstream churches like Baptists, Lutherans, or Catholics, and the idea of bringing spirituality or Magick into their sex lives is just WRONG. They'll fuck a room full of strangers, but the minute you light some incence and draw a sigil on your parner's ass, it's perverted and evil somehow...
I'm quite liberal myself, but when it comes to sex and relationships I suppose I'm much more conservative. I firmly believe in monogamy in a relationship, everything else just cheapens it. This doesn't come from a Christian upbringing as I wasn't raised in any way as a Christian, but simply my own personal opinion. Speaking of...

I don't see how group sex is exactly enlightening. Group sex magick just seems like an excuse to do something wild while trying to give it some form of validity by making it "spiritual." I don't see how letting people treat you like a giant masturbatory tool, and vice versa, as very high on the spiritual totem pole. I would think that whatever magick you wanted to perform sexually would probably reap stronger results with someone you knew better, had more experience & a deeper understanding with. I have no problems with sex magick, but the idea of an orgy thinly veiled as a spiritual act just seems gross. Too many foreign bodily fluids for my taste ;)... But that's just me...

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Original post: Ninlil

You don't find women with the kind of beauty and integrity for such things, you cultivate them.

If you give them enough incentive you could make it happen. Money, intellectual stimulation, power, luxury. Perhaps even family and the deeper emotional ties.

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The problem with the courtesan cult revival is the age we are living in.There is an interest in sex but in the low type of it and there is a freedom of "religion" but up 2 a poin and that point is=>do not mess with the xtian values of the society.Let's just say that i'm working on a side of this field and i know how people think(and living in Europe i can compare different ppl with different countries)...they will always prefer a low prostitute that will do everything the client asks to a high class one that might refuse some things.The point is ....i pay an amount of money so i want all the nasty things in it, I don t care about talking or other things.In the same time there is a large amount of prostitutes comming from Asian countries and Eastern Europe that are spoiling every type of business from legal prostitution to strip tease and internet chat(cam girls) and belive me they have nothing to do with the spiritual side of sex.
ON the other side the people that are asking for this kind of services are mainly not satisfied husbands or just ppl that have a high sex drive and they are not interested other things than sex.Religion is a taboo subject...And yes i've met a lots of swingers(mainly brits)but in the moment when u start the religion subject they prove to be just society pets...
IN a nuttshel... kinky sex yes...but don t put a cross in my ass pls =))

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