Bouncing Ideas

[JohnTitor]

I recently have been experiencing lucid dreams since I have stopped practicing Warding, Runic Invocation or any other protective measure meant to keep me safe from influence and harm. Is there a possible relation to my protective measures having inhibited my presence on/awareness of the astral- keeping me bound to the mundane and physical body? My technique was very general and I specifically utilized runes from the first Aett (under Freja) as I connect very well with her. During my 3-4 year separation from all but these wards, I was blissfully unaware and more capable of focusing on the SELF rather than spiritual events going on around me unless they were of profound importance.

These lucid dreams are never pleasant, and typically involve me encountering very unwanted presences who seek to do naught but take control or hurt me. After my years of practicing keeping self-awareness- I am much more capable than I was in the past at breaking away from their grasp and pulling myself back to my body. Keep in mind, I do not see a difference between the Astral Planes and Dreaming. This may be incorrect, but in relation to the subconscious ruling our manifest it is sound in my own mind. Any insight would be appreciated.

[RoseRed]

I'm of the belief that a person can project into the Astral from the Dreamspace.

If you want to continue and practice with these dreams - have fun. If you don't - you can put your wards back up and get a good night's sleep.

I have pretty firm boundaries for what I allow inside my own home and especially in my bedroom - for the living, the dead and spirits of other flavors.

[JohnTitor]

If I may inquire (that is if it's not too personal) what kind of wards to you use- and are you still capable of interaction on the Astral when they are in use? I used standard Runic Invocation of the first Aett, as well as general charging and expansion of my aura with intent. This was during my 3 year sabbatical from intense Magick for the purpose of becoming more self aware vs spiritually aware.

[RoseRed]

I don't use wards in the traditional sense of the word.

It can be whatever you want to make it. You can block interaction from both inside and outside of the wards or you can create them to be one way - keeping things out while still allowing yourself to do as you choose.

[Desecrated]

I'm the kind of persons that believes that we open ourself up a little to much when practicing magic.

I like mine protection/wards to close of some medial ability as well. Especially passive stuff that might come in dreams or by themselves.
If I want to experience that kind of thing, or practice it, I do it somewhere else then my own home.

An odd example would be: I don't mind being naked in the shower, but I would be slightly disturbed to walk around town naked just to see what happens.

You can absolutely find yourself in the astral plain trough dreams, and I for one, does not like the lack of control.
Then again, I don't deal with conjuring and possession either. I'm more of a 'project myself into the world', then 'conjuring the world into me' kind of guy.

[JohnTitor]

RoseRed- I personally use the word wardas an umbrella term for anything meant to protect- or ward anythingoff. Say I were to invoke the rune of protection algiz (heimdall ruled) to keep enemies or those who seek to harm me at bay or to keep them from injuring me. The result would be a generic warding effect for those who come near with malevolent intent. I could certainly have invoked other runes to specify what may come or go, but for pure simplicity and efficacy- i choose not to. Perhaps more experimentation is due?

It took me a three year sabbatical away from magickal practice (save for my warding- and i'm aware of the redundancy here and apologize) to gain control of myself in the dream-state and astral planes- as well as understand when I am being influenced so as to recognize the difference between the two. My question is whether or not being so generic in my protection could have (noted; Desecrated your input is invaluable- though- could you expand a little more on the methodology in which you differentiate between mundane and spiritual vs astral and spiritual?) impeded my sensitivity, or perhaps even kept me here/grounded. Now that I am no longer restricting access to myself from anything specific I have noticed that I am much more capable of lucid dreaming and accessing the astral- whereas prior to my restrictions and break away from Magick, I was hard pressed to do so.

I am aware of the fact that you have both hinted at a method of warding/ protecting oneself from certain entities or presences, but this does not answer the question- and I do not aim to be rude or discount what you have been so kind to present.

[RoseRed]

RoseRed- I personally use the word wardas an umbrella term for anything meant to protect- or ward anythingoff.
It's an easy to understand word and that's pretty much how I use it as well. I know that there are specific techniques that fall under the umbrella term 'warding' and an actual practice of setting wards. That's not something that I've learned how to do - so, I do it my own way

Say I were to invoke the rune of protection algiz (heimdall ruled) to keep enemies or those who seek to harm me at bay or to keep them from injuring me. The result would be a generic warding effect for those who come near with malevolent intent. I could certainly have invoked other runes to specify what may come or go, but for pure simplicity and efficacy- i choose not to. Perhaps more experimentation is due?
If you're happy with the way it's working then perhaps more experimentation in the future. I only ward protect against specific things if I have a specific reason to.

It took me a three year sabbatical away from magickal practice (save for my warding- and i'm aware of the redundancy here and apologize) No need for apologies - I understand how important this fact is to the progress you've made in the last few years. to gain control of myself in the dream-state and astral planes- as well as understand when I am being influenced so as to recognize the difference between the two. Very important things, imo. My question is whether or not being so generic in my protection could have (noted; Desecrated your input is invaluable- though- could you expand a little more on the methodology in which you differentiate between mundane and spiritual vs astral and spiritual?) impeded my sensitivity, or perhaps even kept me here/grounded. Now that I am no longer restricting access to myself from anything specific I have noticed that I am much more capable of lucid dreaming and accessing the astral- whereas prior to my restrictions and break away from Magick, I was hard pressed to do so.

And that makes sense to me. You're a cohesive whole. When you break that down into individual parts you realize just how much it's all interconnected. There have been times over the years that I've focused on specific techniques or abilities and noticed much the same, although not to the extent that you've described here.

I am aware of the fact that you have both hinted at a method of warding/ protecting oneself from certain entities or presences, but this does not answer the question- and I do not aim to be rude or discount what you have been so kind to present.

I'm not trying to be difficult. What is the actual question that I missed?

[JohnTitor]

I'll try to word it better lol

Is it possible that my protective measures had kept me blinded or stuck in the mundane/physical? As a sort of unintended side effect since my goal was simply protecting myself.

[Desecrated]

I'll try to word it better lol

Is it possible that my protective measures had kept me blinded or stuck in the mundane/physical? As a sort of unintended side effect since my goal was simply protecting myself.

Yes.
I see that as a positive side effect.

You can put all of your protection in place, and then use something like a crystal/sigil/talisman/spirit-guide to boost your ability to go non-physical when you want it.

[JohnTitor]

okay, so my concern was real. While yes it is a positive side effect as it completely served the purpose beyond what i had even considered- it definitely came as a shock to me the profound level of awareness I gained from negating outside influence and by being restricted to only exploring my physical and subtle body without projection.

[RoseRed]

Yeah, absoluetely.

And now you know how to ground yourself to the physical and block the spiritual if it becomes necessary in the future. It may seem like a stumbling block now but these are lifetime Paths. You learned something very important that some people never quite 'get'. It's a good skill to have in your arsenal if it's needed in the future.

[palindrom]

okay, so my concern was real. While yes it is a positive side effect as it completely served the purpose beyond what i had even considered- it definitely came as a shock to me the profound level of awareness I gained from negating outside influence and by being restricted to only exploring my physical and subtle body without projection.

hey JohnTitor : )

in my personal experience the protection leaves me free to deal with my inner demons. so, as to your question, yes, i think the protection keeps me here, inside me - which is a good thing because there is work to do.

but also, it keeps me away from the world; the spontaneous flow between me and everyting else, which is such an important part of being a human... in a subtle way, it got less.
but then, in another way, the exchange is getting clearer, because there a boundaries now.
so, perhaps what you felt so strongly was this return of vulnerability and being without borders, which is a very alive feeling...

...maybe i will stop doing the protecting rituals again, once i feel firmly rooted in myself. or, the protection itself might start to change, who am i to say that the LBRP will stay the same when i change? it already feels very different than when i started two years ago...

...or perhaps, there will come a time when i should try to conciously shift the protection from the material plane to the astral (and mental???) plane, so that the energyflow in, let's say, the olam assia, the material world, is free again, but i keep myself in my boundaries on the other planes.

...is this possible at all? no idea : D

have a good evening

palindrom

p.s.:
you wrote that you went away from magic to get to know yourself better, and now have come back to it. (hope i paraphrased this correctly like this).
i'dl love to hear more about that, why you left, what you learned without it, and why you came back to it - if that's not too personal. it's just something i keep thinking about as well, what do i learn/who am i with magic and what do i learn/who am i without it?

[JohnTitor]

in my personal experience the protection leaves me free to deal with my inner demons. so, as to your question, yes, i think the protection keeps me here, inside me - which is a good thing because there is work to do.

but also, it keeps me away from the world; the spontaneous flow between me and everyting else, which is such an important part of being a human... in a subtle way, it got less.
but then, in another way, the exchange is getting clearer, because there a boundaries now.
so, perhaps what you felt so strongly was this return of vulnerability and being without borders, which is a very alive feeling...

...maybe i will stop doing the protecting rituals again, once i feel firmly rooted in myself. or, the protection itself might start to change, who am i to say that the LBRP will stay the same when i change? it already feels very different than when i started two years ago...

...or perhaps, there will come a time when i should try to conciously shift the protection from the material plane to the astral (and mental???) plane, so that the energyflow in, let's say, the olam assia, the material world, is free again, but i keep myself in my boundaries on the other planes.

...is this possible at all? no idea : D

have a good evening

palindrom

p.s.:
you wrote that you went away from magic to get to know yourself better, and now have come back to it. (hope i paraphrased this correctly like this).
i'dl love to hear more about that, why you left, what you learned without it, and why you came back to it - if that's not too personal. it's just something i keep thinking about as well, what do i learn/who am i with magic and what do i learn/who am i without it?

Palindrom-

In my sabbatical (for lack of a better word honestly) My only practices were very simple Runic invocations and outside of that- mostly charging the energy within and around myself. My aura was something I very much focused on so as to have control to some degree of outsiders should they become a threat. While free from bodily harm, my spirit was very much bound within my body and in return, protected as well. I say that I left magick because I no longer practiced regularly nor even half-frequently. I rarely felt the need for the runes, and strictly kept focused on the self. It almost sounds contradictory though it was very much the routine of things for me to focus on the mundane during work hours and only focus on more during the night when I had freedom of mind and body.

What I practiced was relative to supposed psychic vampirism so to speak (though there are none truly born with this need nor lack of an energy center). The concept was constructing my aura or charging it with intent so as to keep predators or influences at bay while I grew to know myself. I became much happier over the last few years, and can sufficiently recognize and stop any external attacks without needing to project nor have passive protection in place. While yes one can still classify this as magickal working- the goal and result was a rooting in my body and strength of will instead of using other forces to reach an end goal. By remaining only focused on the self and my body I slowly became more numb to the pressures of other entities. Only when I was in danger was I acutely aware. I do agree that in doing so I may have removed a connection to the flow of things around me- but only to a certain degree. Once aware, always aware so to speak.

My general practice for this was a void meditation in which I blocked out the outside influence of spirits, the people in the houses emotions, etc... It was very basic, and perhaps I should have started my practices all those years ago this way instead of jumping headlong into it. I did everything at once when I started, ritual magick, traditional witchcraft (or conventional), energy manipulation and projection vs standard spell weaving etc... each of my studies slowly became intertwined and much more effective as time went on. After 6 years I started noticing that I was much less myself than I was when I started. This realization both scared and awed me- the idea that I was losing myself to what I was doing made me stop and think, "What if I can truly become lost to myself, and no longer differentiate between my own thoughts and feelings and those of others around me both physical and spiritual?" After considering it, and I mean truly considering the possibility, I decided to keep away from anything save the most basic of practice. Thus my routine became (pertaining to magickal practice) simply meditation and energy manipulation/auric manipulation. At the end of this, I was even able to get impressions one at a time and pinpoint what and where they came from. By constructing a net so to speak out of my energy and the energy around me, I learned the filter I longed for all those years, yet was too sidetracked in techniques and teachings to truly commit to learning.

To be fair, I believe that while I may have been very acutely aware beforehand, I was lacking the basic principles on which magick is founded. So, while it may seem strange to others to have 6 years of successful practice and study and NOT truly understand the self or the basics, that may very well be what I was lacking. No longer can emotion rip through me unwarranted nor uncontrollably. I am very much more in control of my own thoughts, actions and spirit. Does that shed any light on it for you Palindrom? I hope it does and I hope it makes sense ))

[palindrom]

Palindrom-

In my sabbatical (for lack of a better word honestly) My only practices were very simple Runic invocations and outside of that- mostly charging the energy within and around myself. My aura was something I very much focused on so as to have control to some degree of outsiders should they become a threat. While free from bodily harm, my spirit was very much bound within my body and in return, protected as well. I say that I left magick because I no longer practiced regularly nor even half-frequently. I rarely felt the need for the runes, and strictly kept focused on the self. It almost sounds contradictory though it was very much the routine of things for me to focus on the mundane during work hours and only focus on more during the night when I had freedom of mind and body.

What I practiced was relative to supposed psychic vampirism so to speak (though there are none truly born with this need nor lack of an energy center). The concept was constructing my aura or charging it with intent so as to keep predators or influences at bay while I grew to know myself. I became much happier over the last few years, and can sufficiently recognize and stop any external attacks without needing to project nor have passive protection in place. While yes one can still classify this as magickal working- the goal and result was a rooting in my body and strength of will instead of using other forces to reach an end goal. By remaining only focused on the self and my body I slowly became more numb to the pressures of other entities. Only when I was in danger was I acutely aware. I do agree that in doing so I may have removed a connection to the flow of things around me- but only to a certain degree. Once aware, always aware so to speak.

My general practice for this was a void meditation in which I blocked out the outside influence of spirits, the people in the houses emotions, etc... It was very basic, and perhaps I should have started my practices all those years ago this way instead of jumping headlong into it. I did everything at once when I started, ritual magick, traditional witchcraft (or conventional), energy manipulation and projection vs standard spell weaving etc... each of my studies slowly became intertwined and much more effective as time went on. After 6 years I started noticing that I was much less myself than I was when I started. This realization both scared and awed me- the idea that I was losing myself to what I was doing made me stop and think, "What if I can truly become lost to myself, and no longer differentiate between my own thoughts and feelings and those of others around me both physical and spiritual?" After considering it, and I mean truly considering the possibility, I decided to keep away from anything save the most basic of practice. Thus my routine became (pertaining to magickal practice) simply meditation and energy manipulation/auric manipulation. At the end of this, I was even able to get impressions one at a time and pinpoint what and where they came from. By constructing a net so to speak out of my energy and the energy around me, I learned the filter I longed for all those years, yet was too sidetracked in techniques and teachings to truly commit to learning.

To be fair, I believe that while I may have been very acutely aware beforehand, I was lacking the basic principles on which magick is founded. So, while it may seem strange to others to have 6 years of successful practice and study and NOT truly understand the self or the basics, that may very well be what I was lacking. No longer can emotion rip through me unwarranted nor uncontrollably. I am very much more in control of my own thoughts, actions and spirit. Does that shed any light on it for you Palindrom? I hope it does and I hope it makes sense ))

hey john : )

thank you, that is very interesting to read indeed, since you seem to have come across a few points to which i feel like getting to.

as to the separating of "mundane"/work-life and spiritual life - lately i started to really enjoy the switch between doing spiritual exercices and organising stuff for my jobs. the two worlds seem to counterbalance each other now.

the thing with protecting against entities is not so important for me (maybe i just still don't perceive them). i need the protection mainly to have a border at all between me and outside, something i was missing before... so, in a way, with my magical work i'm doing the opposite of what you wrote,
not "losing myself in the others", but pulling myself out of the others : D
(in order to get started on clearing myself up, so there i am at a similar point which you described when you stopped doing magick)

but then, all the "magical" work i do is perhaps no magic anyway in your book, since i'm mostly stabilizing and centering myself. apart from that it's just getting to know stuff, the runes, hebrew, the little pentagramme-, and a form of 4-element-ritual i developed out of the hexagrammeritual.
there is no big weaving of spells or calling of spirits here - apart from the growing power of my mind, which charges what i think stronger than before, so i have to be more careful of what i think, because it tends to become true much quicker then before : )

as to do successful practise and not have the basics: i see that in choral conductors who aren't professional singers themselves - they know how to conduct the music, but they don't know the technique it needs to create the sound...

thanks for telling me about your developments, i'm really glad to hear how others fare with this very potent, potentially personalitychanging stuff called magick.

...and it's lovely to hear that you're more in control of your thoughts and actions... do you perceive this as altering your personality? for me, so far, the freedom i gain from just re-acting towards acting feels like getting closer to myself, actually, more in tune with me than before. how ist this for you? ist this calmer version more you ore less you, or still simply you?
: D

asking too many questions, perhaps - i tend to do that...

have a good day : )

pali

[JohnTitor]

Palindrome-

There are a number of practices that I maintained regularly and certain magickal workings specifically to enhance something less than positive in my life. I would consequently then perform other rituals and summonings that I should not have. Some of my studies (while I admit were to a certain degree out of curiosity and greed) were outside of anything I personally would ever perform though interesting. I will not go into too detail in this post- if you would like more information I feel it would be better discussed in PM vs this particular topic. My reasons were severe and that is enough.

the thing with protecting against entities is not so important for me (maybe i just still don't perceive them). i need the protection mainly to have a border at all between me and outside, something i was missing before... so, in a way, with my magical work i'm doing the opposite of what you wrote,
not "losing myself in the others", but pulling myself out of the others : D

I have been potently aware of other presences since I was very little, and as such started my practices at an earlier age than some (that is not bragging, that is also not saying that i've started earlier than most- just that the age i started, i personally consider young.) This being the case I found myself needing to protect myself from certain beings or energies. Even from peoples ill will if you consider the subconscious and it's power.

...and it's lovely to hear that you're more in control of your thoughts and actions... do you perceive this as altering your personality? for me, so far, the freedom i gain from just re-acting towards acting feels like getting closer to myself, actually, more in tune with me than before. how ist this for you? ist this calmer version more you ore less you, or still simply you?

With the practices I kept, my thoughts and actions were drastically different from my own- how I know I am as a person. They were destructive and malicious. As a child I was never this way, and it was only after learning certain things and playing with things I knew too little about at the time that my behavior became so outrageous. It is only after disaster we seek to rebuild- is it not?

the thing with protecting against entities is not so important for me (maybe i just still don't perceive them). i need the protection mainly to have a border at all between me and outside, something i was missing before... so, in a way, with my magical work i'm doing the opposite of what you wrote,
not "losing myself in the others", but pulling myself out of the others : D
(in order to get started on clearing myself up, so there i am at a similar point which you described when you stopped doing magick)

I do not think you truly are. That is not some "nobody understands me waaahhh" sort of statement. I was practicing very dark things and the karmic backlash was certainly a presence in my life. When all you seek to do is destroy and strengthen the self- it shows and changes you a bit.... Maybe others aren't so impressionable or learned what i only recently gained control of before their practices, but I know for certain that I am much more myself now than before my distancing from Magick. I have even altered my practices to a major degree to avoid certain things I know that if i dip into a little bit... I will be wanting more because the immediate results are great. I hope that clears why I left up a bit more. Fear for myself and family.

Titor

[ultimafool]

Lucid dreaming/astral projection has been one of the most valuable tools for my evolution. I would be really upset if I found out something I was doing was interfering with this (which is why I don't smoke pot (so much) anymore).

Last year, some low-level astral beings and possibly an elemental were harassing me in my dreams. The first time the astral beings showed up, I immediately began the LBRP and they scattered before I got halfway through the Qabbalistic Cross. I must admit, I awoke exhilarated immediately afterwards and felt pretty damn proud of myself! They only showed up a couple more times before I suppose they got the message. The elemental was a bit sneakier. It would switch the dream scenario each time I tried to banish, in an effort to make me forget what was going on. It showed up again a few more times, changing its form each time (unlike the astral guys) Luckily, I never fell for any of its tricks and I got it off my back.

Point of this is, if you wish to keep yourself open to the astral and enjoy your lucid dreams without getting harassed, banish them just as you would if you are awake! My astral experiences make me feel like a "real magician" - the kind of magic I imagined and read about in comics and saw in movies when i was a small child. I can change my shape at will, fly/teleport, summon anyone/thing, do Matrix-style kung fu moves and explore the depths of my own subconscious. I can't emphasize how much fun I've had and learned from my astral/lucid experiences.

[JohnTitor]

I am fully capable of removing myself from the problem Ultimafool, even removing them to a certain extent. The dreamscape and astral have been tools utilized by myself since i was in my fourth year of practice, even having sent one of my friends (a non believe prior to the event) to the astral with the assistance of my preferred goddess. I was almost unable to get him out, and feared that he may become lost in his first travel. The astral is a wonderful place to explore the self, but equally frightening as no matter how powerful you think you are- there is always something bigger and badder, just like in the mundane. You really think that a 10,000 year old God of Destruction would be remotely phased by us if we were able to make it to the final planes? I highly doubt it, and as such have only willingly traveled into the 4th plane for safety. There are things that can hurt us here, what makes you think that they aren't a thousand times more powerful in their own realm? Call it fear, I call it respect of my betters. You have heard of many "exorcisms" or "banishings" resulting in the casters death or immediate injury, even of those with many more years than most of us on the forum in any decided field. That being said- I simply wish to exist WITH them, and have no need for any sort of disagreement. We can learn much more this way I think, though it comes down to whether or not they recognize my intent and reasoning for only fighting back when necessary as a want for a friendship/truce of sorts. Spiritual Satanism is as much based on the principle that they are our mentors and teachers as they are our elders- even those rebellious ones.

The question was regarding my simple protective measures binding me to the physical/mundane world- the answer was yes as a sort of side effect. I am very glad to hear that you fought off your antagonists I handle my own, though I seek more peace and love universally than dominion. Any thoughts on attempting to establish a relationship of sorts, or understanding with those entities we think are there to harm us? Of course- we cannot allow them to continually harass us haha. Thank you for your insight, look forward to more.

Titor

[ultimafool]

The question was regarding my simple protective measures binding me to the physical/mundane world- the answer was yes as a sort of side effect. I am very glad to hear that you fought off your antagonists I handle my own, though I seek more peace and love universally than dominion. Any thoughts on attempting to establish a relationship of sorts, or understanding with those entities we think are there to harm us? Of course- we cannot allow them to continually harass us haha. Thank you for your insight, look forward to more.

Titor

Ah, I see. I think I may have misread your initial question somewhat. Re: establishing a relationship of sorts with these beings: I'm honestly not sure how I feel about this. I haven't really had much experience with these things until lately and have been bouncing around several ideas (see what i did there? heh) about what it all means.

It could be that these beings are messing with me in order to further my evolution. Whether this is objectively true or not, it's how I choose to look at such things so that I can get the most out of the experience. It could be that they are aspects of my own self that are holding me back. It could be that they are straight up malevolent and are trying to scare me out of progressing any further. I used to think this was totally bogus, but lately, not so much? Like you said, if there are haters on the physical, then it stands to reason that there are probably astral beings that hate us and want to keep us in the dark.

However you look at it, I think facing these things and overcoming our fears is an integral and perhaps inevitable part of the journey.

[JohnTitor]

Agreed- fear is indeed an inevitable part of the journey, integral to dealing with these forces that invoke our fear on a primal level.... oh yes, my fear was once a dominant force inky life... no longer, however i do find myself at odds with myself.... i seem drawn back to that which i left- i see it in my eyes, that shadow... there is once again that darkness within, raising its magnificent and deceptive head. Once a member of my house- always a member of my house. It's been awhile

[edaen]

Lucid dreams are bad dreams in which the dreamer is aware but loses the ability to willfully control events. To overcome the bad dreams I use Labradorite. Labradorite http://www.ka-gold-jewelry.com/p-stones/labradorite.php draws success to its owner's life. It greatly enhances dreaming and the ability to remember contents of the dreams during the waking hours. It enhances the dream state, facilitating dream recall, lucid dreaming and restful sleep. Labradorite also helps to enhance all forms of perception during the day. It is really very effective.

[Draco20]

Lucid dreams are bad dreams in which the dreamer is aware but loses the ability to willfully control events.

That's not true. At least not for me. I had 3 lucid dreams in my life (all happened within the same year) and they were pleasant experiences. For a time frame of about 30s-1min I was in full control of my dreamed self, I could make conscious decisisons, speech, movements ect.

A lucid dream is when you suddenly realize that you're dreaming (hence the word ''lucid''), that you are in the dream and can then act accordingly.

There are ways to try self-induce lucid dreaming, with various degrees of success. IMO, any necessery practice would've to include regular periods of mindfulness meditation and focus on getting the right mindset just before sleep, so that your subconscious can pick up the cue.