More energy on less sleep?

[Haelos]

I tent to stay awake for extended periods of time, and when I go to sleep, I'm never too particularly tired and sleepy. I only pass out because I've been up for 20 hours and technically need to.
Even though I'm not always tired when I go to bed, I *always* sleep for forever. Like, 12 hours at the least.
It's pretty inefficient, and it doesn't help me get a lot done for that day.

I'm curious to know if anyone has any methods to share that would allow me to stay rested on a smaller amount of sleep, or even just wake me up a little earlier than I'm ready for.
One notable thing I can think of is the Uberman Sleep Schedule. You essentially replace your regular 8 hour sleep with several timed naps throughout the day. Do some research if you're still interested. Tried it, couldn't keep it. (I could never get a good human alarm, and I don't wake up to buzzers well enough.)
I've been having a few times lately that I can feel rested simply off of meditation, but that's usually combined with a little bit of energy work as well, so it isn't a very good controlled experiment.
Should I just load myself with as much vital energy as I can before going to sleep? Is that a good idea?

[Rin]

I've honestly never heard of anyone who's even successfully attained the "uberman sleep schedule," let alone maintained it for any length of time, so I would say that one is out of the question. You know, if it sounds too good to be true and all that...

As for as pumping yourself full of vital energy before sleep, this would be counterproductive I would imagine, as vital energy tends to be stimulating - you'd end up awake even longer and then having an even more brutal crash.

The system of chi kung I practice has exercises which specifically either induce an especially stimulating effect (above and beyond the usual effect of energy work) or a sedating effect, I haven't made use of these exercises personally so I can't speak for their efficacy, but the system itself is exceptional when it comes to inducing a balanced state of health in the body and has helped me tremendously with attaining a regular sleep pattern (an issue I've struggled with since my pre-teen years).

Beyond that, the only spiritual/magical aids I can think of are to keep working with your meditation and energy work, which should eventually help you balance out whatever internal issue is causing your sleep problems, one way or another. If you're still having trouble maintaining a regular sleep schedule after a year or two of daily practice of a decent system, then I'd say there's something counteracting the effort you're putting in spiritually, but that's something only you can answer.

auto-suggestion might help, or prayer. Some people suggest meditation before sleep, but I find this counterproductive in that even void meditation gets energy pumping through the system. Perhaps meditation "on" sleep, on why you struggle to keep a 24 hour cycle going.

[Haelos]

I've honestly never heard of anyone who's even successfully attained the "uberman sleep schedule," let alone maintained it for any length of time, so I would say that one is out of the question. You know, if it sounds too good to be true and all that...

As for as pumping yourself full of vital energy before sleep, this would be counterproductive I would imagine, as vital energy tends to be stimulating - you'd end up awake even longer and then having an even more brutal crash.

The system of chi kung I practice has exercises which specifically either induce an especially stimulating effect (above and beyond the usual effect of energy work) or a sedating effect, I haven't made use of these exercises personally so I can't speak for their efficacy, but the system itself is exceptional when it comes to inducing a balanced state of health in the body and has helped me tremendously with attaining a regular sleep pattern (an issue I've struggled with since my pre-teen years).

Beyond that, the only spiritual/magical aids I can think of are to keep working with your meditation and energy work, which should eventually help you balance out whatever internal issue is causing your sleep problems, one way or another. If you're still having trouble maintaining a regular sleep schedule after a year or two of daily practice of a decent system, then I'd say there's something counteracting the effort you're putting in spiritually, but that's something only you can answer.

auto-suggestion might help, or prayer. Some people suggest meditation before sleep, but I find this counterproductive in that even void meditation gets energy pumping through the system. Perhaps meditation "on" sleep, on why you struggle to keep a 24 hour cycle going.

Those are some good tips. I'd like to get on the "easier" version of that sleep schedule. The one consisting of about 8 or 10, 40-minute naps throughout the day, or something like that.
Do you know of any valuable resource I might be able to use for learning Qi Gong? That's always been an interest of mine, but I have the preference of learning from a live instructor, and it seems I'm not able to fulfill that around where I live. It's time for me to start hitting books and practicing as it gets warmer around here.
I usually do meditate before bed, actually, but that was originally to help my insomnia and get off medication. Lately I haven't needed any help falling asleep, I just lay down and decide that I'm asleep. However, when I do still decide to meditate, I end up doing various practices that I don't need to be doing when going to sleep. I've also been more adamant on learning to fully astral project (my soul seems to only rarely leave my body), so that's been another night-time focus for me.
24-hour days just really don't exist right now. I have like.. 34 hour days, or so (adding together my waking and sleeping times.) It's kinda screwed.

[Desecrated]

If it's that bad I recommend going to a doctor and getting some sleeping pills.

Avoiding stress.. eating healthy, exercise and a good night sleep is essential to our entire health, if one of those fail. everything else fails sooner or later.

[Sypheara]

Sounds like you have really fucked up your natural sleep cycle to me. It sounds like you are far too energised at a normal sleeping time, which varies person to person.

I speak from experience on this, as a fellow insomniac - all you can do is force yourself to bed at a naturalish time, and over a few weeks you ll be surprised to realise you have trained your body to sleep at that specific time. The more you go to sleep at irregular times, the more your rhythm shifts and will cause you to drift into this strange, only sleep when you fall kind of schedule in which case you WILL sleep for very long, as your body needs to catch up on the amount of Slow Wave Sleep you have missed which repairs neurons in the brain. From what ive seen of the research, it takes quite a while to get into SWS and you need a decent length of this to properly rest up. The uberman thing you describe sounds like it lacks any deep or long SWS phase that would adequately do this.

I suggest taking or even making some herbal sleep aids, possibly using valerian root. You can simply buy the root, dry it, and crush it into tea and flavour it with honey and lemon.Fo valerian dont use boiling water as you can denature some of the active components in valerian root. let the kettle cool for awhile before pouring it, and then let it steep. It steeps well at about 30 celcius apparently, but i just wing it and go off what works.

I can dig out more info on this and post it if you will, its hard to remember off top of my head as its awhile since ive concocted anything from herbs but i have it in my notes. I found this really did help settle me.

I have now through forcing my body to sleep and resetting my sleep clock got myself to a respectable 6 to 8 hour sleep hour cycle on MOST nights, occasionally it dips below if im not cautious. If you are worried about sleep being too 'unproductive', you can try and use your sleep period to astrally project and or explore inner / outer dreamworlds.

[Haelos]

Some more good tips guys, but I'd like to make a note.
I've had insomnia since I was a child, and I've been on drugs for it almost all my life. The heaviest thing I've been on was Trazadone, and that caused me to wake up with ridiculous migraines every time I took it. I've been on most things in between as well.
I prefer against taking any man-made drugs to induce sleep anymore. They screw with a person in a way that shouldn't be even thought of. I'd much rather go insane and die of sleep deprivation.
My diet has been lacking a little bit lately too. I haven't eaten much for days. That definitely adds to the over-all sleep deprivation, I'm sure.
I've never used any Valerian dream root before, but I do have a huge box of boxes of teas, and a few of them are good for sleeping. I'm just having a hard time finding a good enough tasting herb or blend that also has strong effects. I can't stand strong chamomile, but it sure knocks me on my ass.

[RoseRed]

Have you considered doing a consultation with a trained herbalist?

A lot of herbal medicines taste like medicine. There aren't too many that taste really good.

[Haelos]

Have you considered doing a consultation with a trained herbalist?

A lot of herbal medicines taste like medicine. There aren't too many that taste really good.

I've never particularly had that as an option in my life, but it's something to look in to.

I know this fact, and it sucks. Even worse, a lot of the best herbs make your purge quite a bit, and it's just all around an unpleasant thing to deal with.
I really just need something that can be mixed with most other herbs, that won't cause any degrading of the active chemicals, and that'll make everything taste good.

However, as Uncle once said: "No cure is complete without garrrliicccc!"

[Desecrated]

I want to step back on step before we go into herbs.

Do you have something to do? Do you work?

Do you exercise, do you do anything physical?

Do you read, do you do anything mentally?

Do you work magic, do you meditate, yoga or anything like that?

[Haelos]

Do you have something to do? Do you work?

I have a source of income, yes. I also have things to do in my free time.

Do you exercise, do you do anything physical?

I walk about half a mile a day for exercise, but beyond that, only my normal routine of getting from here to there.

Do you read, do you do anything mentally?

I learn something new everyday. If I don't, it wasn't a successful day.

Do you work magic, do you meditate, yoga or anything like that?

I meditate anywhere from 30 minutes to two hours a day, every day. I have times that I get more, but rarely any less than half an hour.
I perform meditative energy work on a daily or semi-daily basis. I don't perform many actual spells lately, and I don't perform any types of yoga (although I'm working on learning).

[Desecrated]

I'm going to have to go with red rose here.

You should probably talk to a professional herbalist or someone trained in traditional medicine.

Because it sounds like you are doing everything right, but there is some interference going on with you. It almost sounds like your energy output is blocked.
But I can't make a good assessment over the internet.

[Haelos]

I know I could use more exercise, that's for sure. I'm kinda limited by the local weather here, but it's getting nicer, and I plan to be a lot more physically active.
I'm also sort of.. Cleaning myself up, energy-wise. A couple specific energy pathways are blocked (I need to get into someone who can fix my spine too, I have terrible posture I can't fix on my own) and I'm trying to kinda push out anything that might be effecting them.
Maybe after I finish the next few sets of meditation I have left to do, I'll be in a better shape than I am now.

[Desecrated]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGydt-4cJJE

[Stukov]

The big thing to come from sleep research more recently is that different people require different sleeping patterns. While there are things that can adjust or improve your sleep cycles, the deep truth is if you are someone whose body and mind require more sleep, trying to not get that sleep simply wont work for you. There are people who only need a couple hours a night and are fine (knew a guy, was in sleep studies all the time) and others who require tons more. There is also something else I noticed from my life, is that when you are making strides in this line metaphysical world, you need more sleep. Your mind needs the break from this reality to be on the other side, and your body/brain need it to realign and energize. So if you need sleep, however annoying it may be, it might be the best thing for you.

[Haelos]

I understand. A big help for me would be getting a set routine. I'm not sure if anyone can tell by my postings, but I have the most erratic schedule, and I can be up at pretty much any time one day, and the opposite time the next.
I don't have any plan to my days except to get my little bit of practical working in. I should change that.
Once I get a sleep schedule that's actually in 24-hour days, I may try to slowly cut back on my sleep with a few naps here and there.
The uberman sleep schedule really is just selective sleep deprivation, but there are positive and negatives that come with that. Honestly, I enjoy being just a little bit past my threshold, and if I could find a way not to completely reset my progress with 12 hour naps, I'll be set.
I'm not really looking to add any drugs into the mix (herbs are drugs), but I'm totally still open to suggestions as to teas and the like to ingest, though I may not actually follow them.

[Rin]

Do you know of any valuable resource I might be able to use for learning Qi Gong? That's always been an interest of mine, but I have the preference of learning from a live instructor, and it seems I'm not able to fulfill that around where I live. It's time for me to start hitting books and practicing as it gets warmer around here.

I'd recommend the same system I practice myself: http://www.taichimania.com/chikung_catalog.html

You can find more information about it here: http://thedaobums.com/topic/12639-flyin ... -chi-kung/ including extensive input from the current lineage holder, Sifu Dunn, who's there to answer questions from practitioners.

I could go on for hours about how great this system is, but you'd think I had some kind of vested motive in getting people to buy the DVD's, which I don't (beyond my own enthusiasm for sharing something amazing), so I'll just say that it's an amazing system of medical qigong (the best I've found in my extensive searching - it's the real deal, not another set of instructions on opening up the microcosmic orbit blah blah blah) - it's not only incredibly effective in opening up your energy flow and bringing your physical and energy bodies into a state of health and balance, but it's very easy and a pure joy in itself to practice (at least once you get used to holding the postures - if you're not used to long periods of seated meditation and wuji/mabu stance, it'll be uncomfortable for a few weeks, but your body will adjust, especially if you take up a light stretching routine).

[cyberdemon]

Use a single very bright light source to light up the back of your knees.
A bit of magick and a bit of electricity but it helps in resetting the circadian rhythm. Do that, stay awake for as long as you can (perhaps pull an all nighter) and go to sleep at a proper time on an evening and not any time before evening.

[Shinichi]

Check your diet and nutrition details. A lot of energy issues like this are caused by simple malnutrition, and you can do yourself a lot of good simply by paying more attention to the quality of the fuel that you give your body. Remember, every physical thing has metaphysical components. So when you eat lots and lots of junk food, you're quite literally eating junk food. Lots of things like fruit and vegetables, which actually have life force still in them, has a completely different effect on your body.

Besides that, go with what others have said about seeing a professional.

On the matter of using meditation to help with insomnia, though, that I can help with as a fellow insomniac. It's very simple.

First, at least a half hour before you go to bed, get rid of all electronics. Turn your phone off, your laptop, your tablet, TV, everything. Media is very...stimulating. This is not necessarily a bad thing usually, but it is very counterproductive to falling asleep.

Second, since you have a half hour before you go to sleep, use it for relaxing meditation exercises. Most of my Fundamental Development does this. A lot of Qi Gong does this. Do any sort of meditation that winds you down, relaxes your mind and body, and prepares you for sleep.

Third, go to bed and sleep.

Fourth, immediately on waking up, get your ass out of bed and jump into a stimulating morning routine. Do some calisthenics, take a cold shower, do stimulating meditations like Energy Accumulation or Circulation exercises, depending on paradigm. Drink some Mint tea. Have a healthy breakfast. Develop your own stuff that wakes you up and gets you going in the morning.

Make adjustments to that as you need to, but try it out for a week or so and see what happens. Wind down at bed time, wind up in the morning, and try to be as consistent as possible. Program your body to do something and it will do it very efficiently.



~:Shin:~

[Haelos]

I'd consider this thread closed. You guys gave me a lot of stuff to work on, and I'm doing my best to apply as much of it as I can to my life.
If I find the need to update on my progress, I'll start a new thread and mention some specific names in the future.

[michael4343]

I used this for a 5 hour per day sleep, 18 hours of study and 1 hour of eating and toilet breaks schedule it worked for a month and a half, but due to lack of focus around the second month (i was studying too many things at the same time and my intense studying was getting me into trouble) i broke all my active spells and put myself into a whirlpool of discord
Step 1: construct servitor form
Step 2: have it act as an energetic conduit and storage device (you'll want to program the energy to be as positive as possible as sleep deprivation
Step 3: Either empirically absorb the energy from the conduit vampirically or program it to deliver you this energy either while sleeping or throughout the day
It's awesome good luck