Occult Jutsu - Hand Seal Magick

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Kami
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Occult Jutsu - Hand Seal Magick

Post by Kami »

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http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Jutsu
Image

If you are a surger,
You qualify for learning occult jutsu.

If you can surge for 30 seconds - than you are more than qualified.

The reason why I suggest surgers,
Is because surgers can quickly form a sensation using "surging".

You do not have to be a surger to learn and use occult jutsu - but if you can't surge it will take you longer to be able to cause your blood to rush away from the area you are using in your hand to form a symbol or sigil.

Okay surgers,

Step one:
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"Focus Surge On Hands & Begin Sensitization".

Step two:
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"Begin forming one softball sized psi sphere with your left hand, and with your right hand... form a baseball sized psi sphere, keep them both together; now focus your surge into the first large psi sphere and feel it grow slowly - and as for the second small psi sphere... feel it slowly getting smaller: remain like this for 3 minutes."

Step three:
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"Surge your hands and then release surge. Next visualize a sigil or symbol of your choice forming with a tingling sensation on your left hand. Now surge that hand while focusing on the tiglingness of the shape of your sigil/symbol on or in that hand, repeat with a different sigil for the right hand."

Step four:
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"Remember, Yin-Yang".

Step five:
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"If you successfully have formed both symbols or sigils on both of your hands, cease surging."

Step six:
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"To perform an occult jutsu - develop a hand sign that represents the household or temple or shell of both sigils on your hands.

Practice over. ~

So in a nut shell:
1.) Sensitize hands by conventional hand motion method - or by surge method.
2.) Form one type of sigil on your left hand and form another different type of sigil on your right hand; both sigils must be energies that when they are combined, they create some weird effect.
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As you begin forming both different sigils at the same time on your hands, you want to be in the process of forming your hand sign/seal along with your sigil forming.

By the time you are done forming your hand seal - you should also be done with forming both of the sigils on your hands.

...

Here is some references to what I call "surging":

Video 1
&

Video 2
...


I found these videos after I had learned that I can induce this surging sensation @ will or on demand; I researched.

...

Bonus:
Here is a fun little trick I like to call: "Copy and Paste No Jutsu".

This trick requires no skill at all.

All you simply do is learn to see after images quicker than normal, and stare at a page of text that you want to copy and paste and allow the light being reflected from it - to burn into your retinas for 15 seconds.
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Then quickly look at a blank sheet of paper and write down what you can still see in the after image of the page you were staring at or focusing on, you could use your peripherals too for this. ~
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Our consciousness is the darkness that envelopes all of the universe; We will live forever because we are the essence that is the absence of light.
Image
|
Spoiler:
I'd rather get buzzed off of some alcohol with a chimpanzee whom also took a shot of some alcohol and go bananas inside of a bounce house while we're both listening to this song:
Over arguing with a fool. ~

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Re: Occult Jutsu - Hand Seals

Post by Haelos »

Fun Fact: The Fireball Jutsu is the only skill in Naruto that can be turned into a real spell using the information they give you.

They tell you both the mudra and Mandala of the meditation needed, and learning the names of the handseals will give you the mantra.

To perform the Fireball Jutsu:
As you perform the handseals of the jutsu, you vizualize your Qi (chakra, in the series) building within your stomach, and use your breath to force the energy up and out your mouth. As the energy builds in your chest, turn in red/fiery using the skill of impregnation.

The handseals are: Snake, Ram, Monkey, Boar, Horse, Tiger.
The mudra for those seals is: Mi, Hitsuji, Saru, I, Uma, Tora.


Other than the Japanese names of the mudra, all of this information is given to Sasuke from his Father when he first learns the technique.

No other Jutsu in Naruto is so fully described in how to perform it that you could actually do so. I've come very close to making fire using this spell.
The only other Jutsu I can think might be possible is the Rasengan, but no human I know would be capable of producing that much visible energy, and controlling it is as hard as the anime makes it seem.

Using knowledge from various schools of practice, it is possible to create an endless number of spells using the technique of "Jutsu" from Naruto, though they won't be nearly as flashy.
Following those schools of thought, however, none of this stuff is needed, because many will teach you energy manipulation properly, and without using mental crutches like this.
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Re: Occult Jutsu - Hand Seal Magick

Post by Haelos »

Forgot to mention this, but this is described in the show as well.
Each handseal represents a specific animal of the Zodiac, and you're supposed to visualize the energies of the animal as you perform the hand sign.
This is the real reason why Jutsu pull together the way they do. You're borrowing planetary energies and mixing in your own energy to get a specific result.
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"God is an imprecise name for the only thing in the universe that actually exists."
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Tell me what you know about darkness, and I will tell you about the light.
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Re: Occult Jutsu - Hand Seal Magick

Post by Kami »

I only know how to form one hand seal:
Image
Do you know of any other hand seals? xD

Has anyone ever really gotten a jutsu to work?

Like per se - a jutsu that involves hallucinations and electricity?
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Our consciousness is the darkness that envelopes all of the universe; We will live forever because we are the essence that is the absence of light.
Image
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Spoiler:
I'd rather get buzzed off of some alcohol with a chimpanzee whom also took a shot of some alcohol and go bananas inside of a bounce house while we're both listening to this song:
Over arguing with a fool. ~

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Re: Occult Jutsu - Hand Seal Magick

Post by Haelos »

I know the 12 seals from Naruto, and can perform them somewhat quickly.

I know a relative shit-ton of real mudra, though I mostly use the Gyan mudra during my meditations.
I occasionally perform Kuji-Kiri/Kuji-In meditations as well.


From what I know, no one has performed any spell relatable to a Naruto Jutsu.
The essential basics are there, it's just not very useful to use such techniques when there are better, more simple ways of doing things.
Why reinvent the wheel?
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"God is an imprecise name for the only thing in the universe that actually exists."
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Tell me what you know about darkness, and I will tell you about the light.
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Selected Contributions;
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Re: Occult Jutsu - Hand Seal Magick

Post by RoseRed »

Some hospitals actually incorporate the Healing Hands technique. You create something similar to a psy ball with the energy from the air. It's pretty cool.
When my wings get tired I grab my broom.

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Re: Occult Jutsu - Hand Seal Magick

Post by corvidus »

I love the idea of the Naruto-style jutsu. They seem very closely related to the idea behind of Fa-jin.

There was also an interesting video/short documentary floating around of a Chinese acupuncturist who could create electrical charges and pass them through his needles. You watch his clie ts and the reporter flop around on his tabke even. Near the end of the video, he demonstrated the effects of his technique on a newspaper and literally set it on fire ;)
Can't remember where the video is though.

Based on this, I think the 'fire' one should be trying to create is some sort of bio-electricity.
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Re: Occult Jutsu - Hand Seal Magick

Post by Caerdon »

Just one question... what is Surging? I have an idea of what it could be, but want to be sure that I have it right.
Time is but an illusion in perception and is only perceived to pass by at the same moments together for us all... which is, quite frankly, me saying to not expect from me in a timely manner!
-I am but a simple wanderer... Though I may be gone for immeasurable time, always do I return.

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Re: Occult Jutsu - Hand Seal Magick

Post by Kami »

Caerdon wrote:Just one question... what is Surging? I have an idea of what it could be, but want to be sure that I have it right.
It's the ability to access the part of the body in the sympathetic nervous system to release adrenaline or the equivalent of adrenaline.

I know it is adrenaline but I like to call it "surging" because people like to argue with me about how I am wrong when I am surely correct, factually.

I can upon will/on demand "surge" my entire body or parts of it.

Whenever I do this more than I should, I get warmer quicker, my hair and nails grow quicker, no not like in seconds but over time.

My doctor says that I am perfectly healthy based on my blood test results.

Also my heart is normally healthy too.

Now... getting back to the subject:

Oh... yeah - also.. I lose weight quicker in time when I surge a lot.

If I am sick, I can detox quicker by surging.

If I am about to pass out - and if I surge right as I am on the verge of passing out ... somehow this "surging" does not let me pass out.

Or... if I am under water and I can no longer hold my breath and am panicking... this surging helps give me a boost to ignore the pain of not breathing.

Also... when I surge and only during so... any pain I may be experiencing - is reduced.

And there is so much more to this ability,
Especially increasing or decreasing blood flow.

I have attached two youtube videos on "surging/adrenaline" at the bottom of my o.p.

Before I went in to see my doctor to get my blood test results for the health check up I had, a nurse needed to get my blood pressure.

And the nurses there know I have this ability, because I wanted proof to show to my thick headed annoying frigging cousin of mine that it is NOT imaginary, it is NOT all in my head and NOT fake.

So I recorded a video of a before and after of my blood pressure and all that other junk that shows up, and I even took screen shots.

But that was not enough proof for my dumbo cousin,
You see I found two videos on YouTube of people who can do this and yet even THEN he still does not believe me!

It is irritating!

I am not proposing a theory to him,
I am proposing effect and fact to him.

Which is how I came across those two YouTube videos in the first place.

Now I do not have my own proof with me because I had them on a chip that got stolen. And I'd like to believe my cousin stole it for his own purposes.

But yeah today I really wanted to make another video and screen shot references of before and after... but they said they didn't have enough time today to allow me to have another blood pressure check while surging.

But they are aware that I CAN do this and my doctor says nothing bad can come from it, but she wouldn't recommend doing it all the time.

Which I do not do all the time unless I am studying it or if I absolutely need it.

My cousin thinks that I am thinking of an image or sound or motion picture... that he thinks triggers adrenaline, but I am not thinking of any pictures or sounds or motions, I am simply activating adrenaline upon my will/on demand.

For example, when you move your body, you are not thinking: "okay body, this is what I want you to do, do you see that cup over there? Yeah okay good - I want you to go pick it up and fill it with water and then drink it and then bring yourself back to the couch and sit down" <---- Your body will not move to that, YOU have to get up and make it happen because your thoughts are not enough to control your body outside of your will.

I do the same with this adrenaline rush ability,
I don't have to "think" anything provoking to causes this rush.
It's almost like a switch that I can flip on and off. ~

And also... I can only maintain this adrenaline rush for 30 seconds, give or take.

Sorry if I seem irritable... it's just that my cousin makes my life really hard and whenever I think about him I want to see him suffer.

He has put my family through shit.

I can only forgive him for ME so that I can move on.

I will never trust him again.

But yeah - I am just letting you know that I do not mean any negativity towards you or anyone here. <3

So let's not focus on my cousin, screw him; let's talk about this "surging" phenomenon.

c:
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Our consciousness is the darkness that envelopes all of the universe; We will live forever because we are the essence that is the absence of light.
Image
|
Spoiler:
I'd rather get buzzed off of some alcohol with a chimpanzee whom also took a shot of some alcohol and go bananas inside of a bounce house while we're both listening to this song:
Over arguing with a fool. ~

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Re: Occult Jutsu - Hand Seal Magick

Post by Kami »

corvidus wrote:I love the idea of the Naruto-style jutsu. They seem very closely related to the idea behind of Fa-jin.

There was also an interesting video/short documentary floating around of a Chinese acupuncturist who could create electrical charges and pass them through his needles. You watch his clie ts and the reporter flop around on his tabke even. Near the end of the video, he demonstrated the effects of his technique on a newspaper and literally set it on fire ;)
Can't remember where the video is though.

Based on this, I think the 'fire' one should be trying to create is some sort of bio-electricity.
Yeah I have seen that video, a lot of critics want to discredit him by possibe magician tricks that could create the same effect - so that they can use that to bring him down.

Also... he posted another video on YouTube saying that he will no longer do those things in public because his "master" came to him in a vision/dream telling him that he does not approve of his actions or something like that.

This guy is pretty impressive. :)

And I believe in him. <3

Also just so you all know, any real magick practitioners or w/e that CAN do real spooky things in real life that people say science cannot explain - can be replicated by fake magic tricks.

And because there are so many ways to replicate the effects of a real life paranormal ability... all critics need is 1 "trick" to discredit a real ability.

And the depression that follows can impair the person who CAN actually do those paranormal things, which only adds more reason to not believe.

Telekinesis is real but so many fakers out there make it look like a topic unworthy of conversation, and also there are technologies that can achieve a similar effect to telekinesis - which only validates my point that there are so many ways to simulate an effect through trickery in order to purposely discredit the real deal.

I have successfully done t.k. before... but only during an eclipse.

The last eclipse we had was the last and only time I was able to perform telekinesis.

It's almost as if the object moved to my "feelings".

It was a psi wheel under a glass container,
Hot nor cold spots could move the paper wheel.
And it was damn near airtight - so no air currents were involved.

What I would do is focus on the tips of the wheel and try to nudge them.

And then to pretend like it is apart of my body to somehow connect to it, hopefully.

But yeah, as soon the eclipse came by - all of a sudden it works.

Moved in what ever direction I desired.

And even stopped whenever I wanted it to.

But as soon as the eclipse was over - all of a sudden it stops moving to my desire.

I guess I got lucky is all.
Last edited by Kami on Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:29 am, edited 5 times in total.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Our consciousness is the darkness that envelopes all of the universe; We will live forever because we are the essence that is the absence of light.
Image
|
Spoiler:
I'd rather get buzzed off of some alcohol with a chimpanzee whom also took a shot of some alcohol and go bananas inside of a bounce house while we're both listening to this song:
Over arguing with a fool. ~

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Re: Occult Jutsu - Hand Seal Magick

Post by RoseRed »

You care way too much about what other people think.
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Re: Occult Jutsu - Hand Seal Magick

Post by Caerdon »

Alright, it's a bit different than what I thought, but! I know exactly what you are talking about. I can't do it with as much finesse as you describe that you can do, but I can still do it. However despite not being able to do so in individual parts, I can sustain it for alot longer than 30 seconds as well as control the intensity of it.

I often have fun with the blood pressure tests that you do at doctor check ups.

However, one benefit of being able to do these "surges" is that you can stop a head rush (where you feel light headed and your vision goes black) right in it's tracks. (My sisters and I have low sodium levels, so we suffer from these alot)

When you first mentioned Surging, I thought it was a controlled increase or burst of your own bio-energy, as well as the ability to focus and increase in it in one specific body part.
Time is but an illusion in perception and is only perceived to pass by at the same moments together for us all... which is, quite frankly, me saying to not expect from me in a timely manner!
-I am but a simple wanderer... Though I may be gone for immeasurable time, always do I return.

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Re: Occult Jutsu - Hand Seal Magick

Post by Kami »

Caerdon wrote:Alright, it's a bit different than what I thought, but! I know exactly what you are talking about. I can't do it with as much finesse as you describe that you can do, but I can still do it. However despite not being able to do so in individual parts, I can sustain it for alot longer than 30 seconds as well as control the intensity of it.

I often have fun with the blood pressure tests that you do at doctor check ups.

However, one benefit of being able to do these "surges" is that you can stop a head rush (where you feel light headed and your vision goes black) right in it's tracks. (My sisters and I have low sodium levels, so we suffer from these alot)

When you first mentioned Surging, I thought it was a controlled increase or burst of your own bio-energy, as well as the ability to focus and increase in it in one specific body part.
Yeah that's one of the benefits, when I get light headed from holding weed smoke in my lungs and I am on the verge of passing out do to the lightheadedness... I do the surge and it takes me right out of it and stops me from passing out.

I think I need to practice extending my tolerance level for holding "surging", because I cannot hold it for more than half a minute... D:

I envy your longer time duration of being able to hold the surge after you call upon it.

Also here is another benefit, if your hand ever falls asleep or goes numb because of poor blood circulation, do the "surging" thing and your hands numbness will leave you fast.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Our consciousness is the darkness that envelopes all of the universe; We will live forever because we are the essence that is the absence of light.
Image
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Spoiler:
I'd rather get buzzed off of some alcohol with a chimpanzee whom also took a shot of some alcohol and go bananas inside of a bounce house while we're both listening to this song:
Over arguing with a fool. ~

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Re: Occult Jutsu - Hand Seal Magick

Post by Caerdon »

Kurokami wrote:Yeah that's one of the benefits, when I get light headed from holding weed smoke in my lungs and I am on the verge of passing out do to the lightheadedness... I do the surge and it takes me right out of it and stops me from passing out.

I think I need to practice extending my tolerance level for holding "surging", because I cannot hold it for more than half a minute... D:

I envy your longer time duration of being able to hold the surge after you call upon it.

Also here is another benefit, if your hand ever falls asleep or goes numb because of poor blood circulation, do the "surging" thing and your hands numbness will leave you fast.
I'll be honest, I have no idea how long I can hold it, but I can do so for over the time it takes for doing a blood pressure test with no problem.

I never thought of doing it when my hand or arm falls asleep to be honest... mostly because when that happens I just try and work on being able to move and control my hand/arm when I can't feel it. (everyone needs a hobby I say!)

I think that, if you work on controlling your body's energy much like you are doing so with surging, it might help you improve your time that you can sustain a surge.
Time is but an illusion in perception and is only perceived to pass by at the same moments together for us all... which is, quite frankly, me saying to not expect from me in a timely manner!
-I am but a simple wanderer... Though I may be gone for immeasurable time, always do I return.

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Re: Occult Jutsu - Hand Seal Magick

Post by Kami »

Caerdon wrote:
Kurokami wrote:Yeah that's one of the benefits, when I get light headed from holding weed smoke in my lungs and I am on the verge of passing out do to the lightheadedness... I do the surge and it takes me right out of it and stops me from passing out.

I think I need to practice extending my tolerance level for holding "surging", because I cannot hold it for more than half a minute... D:

I envy your longer time duration of being able to hold the surge after you call upon it.

Also here is another benefit, if your hand ever falls asleep or goes numb because of poor blood circulation, do the "surging" thing and your hands numbness will leave you fast.
I'll be honest, I have no idea how long I can hold it, but I can do so for over the time it takes for doing a blood pressure test with no problem.

I never thought of doing it when my hand or arm falls asleep to be honest... mostly because when that happens I just try and work on being able to move and control my hand/arm when I can't feel it. (everyone needs a hobby I say!)

I think that, if you work on controlling your body's energy much like you are doing so with surging, it might help you improve your time that you can sustain a surge.
Thanks for the tip! <3

Before I go to bed tonight *if I sleep at all* I will try to lightly meditate on utilizing the energy in my body to hold the surging longer.

If you have any suggestions of methods to help in this area - I would love to read about them. c:
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Our consciousness is the darkness that envelopes all of the universe; We will live forever because we are the essence that is the absence of light.
Image
|
Spoiler:
I'd rather get buzzed off of some alcohol with a chimpanzee whom also took a shot of some alcohol and go bananas inside of a bounce house while we're both listening to this song:
Over arguing with a fool. ~

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Re: Occult Jutsu - Hand Seal Magick

Post by Caerdon »

Umm... only other tip I could think of right now is don't go full out in the surge from the start. Alter the intensity so that you have something left in the tank to draw upon when it starts to wane.

Or, if you do the surge almost like a clinching feeling, when you reach the peak sort of do a pulling or a drawing (doesn't often last long or give too much for me, and helps if you do a breath drawing intake at the same time, though it's not necessary. Also is important you do it as smoothly as possible) then do another clinch right away (sorry for the shoddy terminology but it's the most accurate that I can think of at the moment for how it feels for me)
Time is but an illusion in perception and is only perceived to pass by at the same moments together for us all... which is, quite frankly, me saying to not expect from me in a timely manner!
-I am but a simple wanderer... Though I may be gone for immeasurable time, always do I return.

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Re: Occult Jutsu - Hand Seal Magick

Post by Kami »

Caerdon wrote:Umm... only other tip I could think of right now is don't go full out in the surge from the start. Alter the intensity so that you have something left in the tank to draw upon when it starts to wane.

Or, if you do the surge almost like a clinching feeling, when you reach the peak sort of do a pulling or a drawing (doesn't often last long or give too much for me, and helps if you do a breath drawing intake at the same time, though it's not necessary. Also is important you do it as smoothly as possible) then do another clinch right away (sorry for the shoddy terminology but it's the most accurate that I can think of at the moment for how it feels for me)
Don't worry, I know what you mean. :)

I never thought about running it smoothly,
Honestly... I always just force it out.

I will try what you mentioned. ~
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Our consciousness is the darkness that envelopes all of the universe; We will live forever because we are the essence that is the absence of light.
Image
|
Spoiler:
I'd rather get buzzed off of some alcohol with a chimpanzee whom also took a shot of some alcohol and go bananas inside of a bounce house while we're both listening to this song:
Over arguing with a fool. ~

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Re: Occult Jutsu - Hand Seal Magick

Post by Caerdon »

Kurokami wrote:
Caerdon wrote:Umm... only other tip I could think of right now is don't go full out in the surge from the start. Alter the intensity so that you have something left in the tank to draw upon when it starts to wane.

Or, if you do the surge almost like a clinching feeling, when you reach the peak sort of do a pulling or a drawing (doesn't often last long or give too much for me, and helps if you do a breath drawing intake at the same time, though it's not necessary. Also is important you do it as smoothly as possible) then do another clinch right away (sorry for the shoddy terminology but it's the most accurate that I can think of at the moment for how it feels for me)
Don't worry, I know what you mean. :)

I never thought about running it smoothly,
Honestly... I always just force it out.

I will try what you mentioned. ~
No problem! Hopefully it helps you! Though the smoothly part is more important for the steps for going from clenching to drawing to clenching again (incase I wasn't clear on that [oh] )
Time is but an illusion in perception and is only perceived to pass by at the same moments together for us all... which is, quite frankly, me saying to not expect from me in a timely manner!
-I am but a simple wanderer... Though I may be gone for immeasurable time, always do I return.

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Re: Occult Jutsu - Hand Seal Magick

Post by Kami »

RoseRed wrote:Some hospitals actually incorporate the Healing Hands technique. You create something similar to a psy ball with the energy from the air. It's pretty cool.
This brings me a sense of peace.

I did not know that...

I am happy that western science is slowly finding its way into the paranormal or other phenomena.

Where can I learn about these hand seals, like the one you mentioned: "Healing Hands"... ?
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Our consciousness is the darkness that envelopes all of the universe; We will live forever because we are the essence that is the absence of light.
Image
|
Spoiler:
I'd rather get buzzed off of some alcohol with a chimpanzee whom also took a shot of some alcohol and go bananas inside of a bounce house while we're both listening to this song:
Over arguing with a fool. ~

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Re: Occult Jutsu - Hand Seal Magick

Post by Haelos »

What you call "surging" is basic life-force empowerment, as taught by almost all magick traditions.

If you actually want to learn to do it right, read Initiation into Hermetics. It sounds like you're going through a ton of extra effort to do something *your way* that is very simple when done the right way.

It's also not merely adrenaline that's sent to your limbs when you perform this. I can't say for sure all the chemicals that are released, as I don't have the equipment to measure such bodily functions, but there is a lot more at work, I am sure.
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"God is an imprecise name for the only thing in the universe that actually exists."
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Rin
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Re: Occult Jutsu - Hand Seal Magick

Post by Rin »

Haelos wrote:What you call "surging" is basic life-force empowerment, as taught by almost all magick traditions.

If you actually want to learn to do it right, read Initiation into Hermetics. It sounds like you're going through a ton of extra effort to do something *your way* that is very simple when done the right way.

It's also not merely adrenaline that's sent to your limbs when you perform this. I can't say for sure all the chemicals that are released, as I don't have the equipment to measure such bodily functions, but there is a lot more at work, I am sure.
Not really - while exercises which involve a large buildup of vital energy will have spillover effects on the nervous system, they aren't going to cause the kind of rapid stimulation of the sympathetic nervous system that the OP appears to be discussing. Things like that can happen as a result of taking these exercises well beyond the recommended intensity or duration, or if something otherwise goes very wrong (although except in certain specific cases, I would imagine you'd be hit by a psychological backlash long before such overt physical symptoms manifested), but what the OP is describing appears to be a primarily biological phenomenon - something akin to biofeedback where he's learned to stimulate the release of adrenaline manually. You certainly shouldn't, for example, see a massive leap in heart rate as a result of accumulating vital energy.

Regarding the whole "surging" thing - it sounds like an excellent way to cause strain on your nervous and cardiovascular systems, wear the body and mind down and trigger some kind of serious health problems if done regularly. The sympathetic nervous system is finely tuned to perform certain functions in the body vital to your health and survival, and allowing you to hold in your bong hits for longer isn't one of them :/

Not to mention that on an acute level, combining this "surging" with the use of drugs like weed which increase your heart rate by themselves, or with physical exertion or other factors which further stimulate the cardiovascular system, could potentially trigger a cardiovascular event.

So yeah, but you might want to read up on the cardiovascular and nervous systems and the effect of excess strain on them before you go around doing this kind of thing. Those functions of the body are not generally manually controllable for a good reason.

And find a new fucking doctor - any doctor who tells you it's ok to run around playing around with your heart rate and blood pressure like that is an idiot.
"The path of the Sage is called
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"

- DDJ, Verse 27

"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett

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RoseRed
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Re: Occult Jutsu - Hand Seal Magick

Post by RoseRed »

Excellent post, Rin. You bring up some excellent points.

I admit - I didn't read all the back and forth so you guys are most likely taking it to stupid and dangerous extremes.

I couldn't figure out at first what you two were so excited about. This 'surging' phenomena... I hate to burst your bubble boys, but it's just biofeedback techniques. If you're going to play and experiment regardless of warnings - at least google biofeedback and learn about it. Make a semi informed decision instead of a 'this is so cool!' until you give yourself a heart attack fun.

Biofeedback comes easy for some people. If you ever actually go for sessions - you'll learn the skills to do it properly and advance exponentially.

Yes, I know this is the fun part of magic and abilities but I'm just a Mama - don't hurt yourselves since you really don't need to.
When my wings get tired I grab my broom.

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Kami
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Re: Occult Jutsu - Hand Seal Magick

Post by Kami »

Rin wrote:
Haelos wrote:What you call "surging" is basic life-force empowerment, as taught by almost all magick traditions.

If you actually want to learn to do it right, read Initiation into Hermetics. It sounds like you're going through a ton of extra effort to do something *your way* that is very simple when done the right way.

It's also not merely adrenaline that's sent to your limbs when you perform this. I can't say for sure all the chemicals that are released, as I don't have the equipment to measure such bodily functions, but there is a lot more at work, I am sure.
Not really - while exercises which involve a large buildup of vital energy will have spillover effects on the nervous system, they aren't going to cause the kind of rapid stimulation of the sympathetic nervous system that the OP appears to be discussing. Things like that can happen as a result of taking these exercises well beyond the recommended intensity or duration, or if something otherwise goes very wrong (although except in certain specific cases, I would imagine you'd be hit by a psychological backlash long before such overt physical symptoms manifested), but what the OP is describing appears to be a primarily biological phenomenon - something akin to biofeedback where he's learned to stimulate the release of adrenaline manually. You certainly shouldn't, for example, see a massive leap in heart rate as a result of accumulating vital energy.

Regarding the whole "surging" thing - it sounds like an excellent way to cause strain on your nervous and cardiovascular systems, wear the body and mind down and trigger some kind of serious health problems if done regularly. The sympathetic nervous system is finely tuned to perform certain functions in the body vital to your health and survival, and allowing you to hold in your bong hits for longer isn't one of them :/

Not to mention that on an acute level, combining this "surging" with the use of drugs like weed which increase your heart rate by themselves, or with physical exertion or other factors which further stimulate the cardiovascular system, could potentially trigger a cardiovascular event.

So yeah, but you might want to read up on the cardiovascular and nervous systems and the effect of excess strain on them before you go around doing this kind of thing. Those functions of the body are not generally manually controllable for a good reason.

And find a new fucking doctor - any doctor who tells you it's ok to run around playing around with your heart rate and blood pressure like that is an idiot.
@Haelos, wonderful book, I am still trying to find an online book of it for free.

@Rin... I am getting a new one. ;)

I wasn't happy with her anyways.

But although she may have said it was okay, I didn't say the whole story,
She too was at first like you Rin,
She was concerned and told my auntie to NOT let me do that at all anymore.
But little did my doctor know that I have never had anything bad happen to me because of it.
I only use it to study it on occasion or to help keep myself out of danger and alive.

I told her that it reduces my pain,
Helps fight off sickness quicker,
Brings me back from the verge of passing out,
Gives me an extra boost to stay conscious,
It helps me warm up when I otherwise cannot,
And it helps me get of drug toxins in my system so much faster than waiting a whole day and a half.

And there is so much more,

Here are two more,
Whenever the sun blinds that hell out of my eye's; If I "surge" my eye's CAN handle the blinding light of the sun that usually impairs my ability to see straight, but it only lasts for about 30 seconds because I can't hold any further than that duration.
Also here is another one - whenever any part of my body becomes numb do to poor blood circulation or falls asleep... if I "surge" while moving that numb body part... it loses numbness so much quicker than by just moving that numb body part without surging along with moving.

I had to beat her verbally with all these good benefits of "surging"... and finally she had agreed with me and said "Okay so long as you don't do it anymore unless you absolutely need to, according to those so called benefits." - so technically she really does not want me doing it but I was stubborn and wanted her to be on my side...

So don't worry brother... she is an okay doctor and I am finely healthy and my heart as well.

So that is why I said that she said that she is okay with it and that no danger could come of it.

Sorry for not being 100% honest on my part. ~

But it is not like I "surge" every second of every day of every week of every month of every year of every decade....

But if both you and Rose disagree with doing this then perhaps I should find another way to combat sickness and those other things I mentioned. :/
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I'd rather get buzzed off of some alcohol with a chimpanzee whom also took a shot of some alcohol and go bananas inside of a bounce house while we're both listening to this song:
Over arguing with a fool. ~

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RoseRed
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Re: Occult Jutsu - Hand Seal Magick

Post by RoseRed »

Actually, I suggested studying biofeedback.
When my wings get tired I grab my broom.

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Rin
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Re: Occult Jutsu - Hand Seal Magick

Post by Rin »

Rose's advice about studying biofeedback properly is solid - look into the science behind what you're doing instead of just winging it. And study the systems you're working with so you gain a better understanding of what you're doing to your body and mind when you do this.

It's called the "fight or flight" response for a good reason - it's only supposed to kick in (especially at the absurd levels you're sending it to - those heart rate and blood pressure numbers are not safe, and would be considered severe tachycardia and hypertension in medical terms) when a person is in serious danger, as a protective method - on an evolutionary level, think "oh shit those glowing things in the bushes are the eyes of a lion" type situations.

And I'm gonna be honest, none of the reasons you mentioned you use it for (fighting off sickness, decreasing pain, recovering from the effects of drugs faster etc.) are things you can't deal with properly instead of overriding them by stimulating excess adrenaline - and by doing this instead of dealing with them properly, you ignore the root cause and so worsen the problem in the long run.

If you're in pain, it's there as a signal that something is wrong, and should be used as an opportunity to explore what that something is and fix it, if you're sick, you should rest and let your body recover, if you're suffering the aftereffects of drug use, you should take it easy and live healthy for a while, and reconsider your pattern of substance use, etc. None of these situations are important enough to be triggering the SNS to the degree you are - or they would already do it automatically, in everyone.

You might feel fine now but I feel pretty comfortable guaranteeing that continuing this pattern of behavior will take both a direct (by the wearing down of the cardiovascular and nervous systems, and possibly by leading to higher SNS stimulation even when you aren't "surging" - although I'm not sure about the latter) and indirect (by the buildup of health problems as they're overriden with adrenaline instead of reacted to normally) toll on your health. You're messing with millions of years of evolutionary design and a delicately balanced homeostasis. If you want some similar examples, look up the health problems caused by excess stress (which is effectively the same excessive triggering of the SNS, albeit at a lower level for prolonged periods of time due to lifestyle problems, as opposed to an extreme level at irregular intervals due to biofeedback-style manual triggering) or the frequent use of stimulant drugs like meth/amphetamine and cocaine (which again, release high levels of adrenaline - although even they don't drive the HR/BP that high except in overdose situations).

Do some research and seriously consider what effect this practice is having on you. I'd also suggest looking into techniques which have the opposite effect (reduce the release of adrenaline and activate the para-sympathetic nervous system) like mindfulness and other forms of meditation, basic breathing exercises, etc (which also have all sorts of spiritual and magical benefits). Or again just by using similar biofeedback techniques.

I know it might seem like what you're doing is just a cool trick which can help you deal with inconvenient situations, but in the long run it will wear you down, much as overuse of stimulant drugs like amphetamines or cocaine would. I imagine the reason you can't sustain it for longer than 30 seconds is that your body recognizes that those levels of stimulation are dangerous and works to counteract it - so I'd highly suggest not attempting to push even further beyond that barrier.

Please consider your health and the possible long term consequences of what you're doing.
"The path of the Sage is called
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"

- DDJ, Verse 27

"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett

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