Summoner Beginner; Help?

[Zephyr404]

I've been trying to contact Marbas to cure my friend's dad's cancer, but I've had no luck at all. I've meditated day in and day out, drew his sigil everywhere, dusted off my focusing crystals, lit my energy candle, but not even the slightest swing of the pendulum. I've read Ars Goetia cover to cover and still no luck. (Summon attempts somewhere in the 20s over the past month) I find dozens of threads where people invoke Goetic demons with no problem, but I seem to lack that magical 'x factor'. Do any of you veterans have any tips?

[Robin_Alexander]

What makes you think you've failed in summoning him, if it's okay to ask?

I'm thinking that curing cancer may be a little ambitious; I'm sure spirits can help, but some things are a lot more difficult for various reasons, and some things may even be outright impossible . . . if you've assumed failure based on result, it may be that you're expecting too much from your attempt at contact. It could be that he's helped in other ways; maybe eased the suffering, helped find contact with the right doctors, and put the father on the path to a cure, as opposed to outright curing him. It's worth looking at the 'results' from a wider perspective.

That being said . . . if nothing at all has changed, and you've felt no presence or made no contact, then it could be more a mental block or something wrong with your process itself. I might recommend starting off a lot smaller; meditating, visual exercises, learning to control yourself and your emotions and finding a sense of peace . . . by controlling these things, you'll learn to focus and concentrate and 'feel' for the spirits a lot better.

If you slowly work your way up to evocation, it might garner better results, because you'll be attuning your body and senses to recognise when spirits are near and find communication easier . . . if you can 'feel' the spirit, you can communicate with it, but if you can't feel them and assume they're not there -? You'll be talking to air.

I'd recommend smaller steps into bigger steps . . .

Crawl before you walk. Walk before you run.

If Marbas really won't respond to you, you could also try another demon that specialises in the area you need. If you still struggle, perhaps try a thought-form or summoning another type of spirit (like an angel or even a god, depending on your personal beliefs). We all have different strengths and abilities, so it could be that you're more prone to working with different types of entities. There's no shortcuts really; it's about trying all things, to see what works for you. If push comes to shove, you can always try spellwork to directly help your friend's father (as opposed to working through a spirit for them to work on your behalf).

[LoneWolf]

Fast 24 hours prior. Use sleep depravation wisely too. But most importantly try harder or give up.

[Zephyr404]

What makes you think you've failed in summoning him, if it's okay to ask?

I'm thinking that curing cancer may be a little ambitious; I'm sure spirits can help, but some things are a lot more difficult for various reasons, and some things may even be outright impossible . . . if you've assumed failure based on result, it may be that you're expecting too much from your attempt at contact. It could be that he's helped in other ways; maybe eased the suffering, helped find contact with the right doctors, and put the father on the path to a cure, as opposed to outright curing him. It's worth looking at the 'results' from a wider perspective.

That being said . . . if nothing at all has changed, and you've felt no presence or made no contact, then it could be more a mental block or something wrong with your process itself. I might recommend starting off a lot smaller; meditating, visual exercises, learning to control yourself and your emotions and finding a sense of peace . . . by controlling these things, you'll learn to focus and concentrate and 'feel' for the spirits a lot better.

If you slowly work your way up to evocation, it might garner better results, because you'll be attuning your body and senses to recognise when spirits are near and find communication easier . . . if you can 'feel' the spirit, you can communicate with it, but if you can't feel them and assume they're not there -? You'll be talking to air.

I'd recommend smaller steps into bigger steps . . .

Crawl before you walk. Walk before you run.

If Marbas really won't respond to you, you could also try another demon that specialises in the area you need. If you still struggle, perhaps try a thought-form or summoning another type of spirit (like an angel or even a god, depending on your personal beliefs). We all have different strengths and abilities, so it could be that you're more prone to working with different types of entities. There's no shortcuts really; it's about trying all things, to see what works for you. If push comes to shove, you can always try spellwork to directly help your friend's father (as opposed to working through a spirit for them to work on your behalf).

I felt like I failed because there was absolutely no change in the 'atmosphere' around me. I'm still a novice, but it felt like I was only talking to myself. I guess you're right that I achieved a small, indirect contact, as Mr. Anon isn't in pain every day anymore. Idk, I guess I expected at least a mental conversation. I don't even know what Marbas wants in return...This stuff is much harder than it seems.

[Robin_Alexander]

I felt like I failed because there was absolutely no change in the 'atmosphere' around me. I'm still a novice, but it felt like I was only talking to myself. I guess you're right that I achieved a small, indirect contact, as Mr. Anon isn't in pain every day anymore. Idk, I guess I expected at least a mental conversation. I don't even know what Marbas wants in return...This stuff is much harder than it seems.

At least there was some small improvement

If the above advice - including that of LoneWolf - doesn't help, I would also recommend maybe trying a different spirit. It could be that you have a stronger rapport or connection to another, as they all have very different personality types and abilities and reactions to various summoners . . . Valefar also helps with healing, although he's primarily known for less ethical pursuits (such as thievery). I've heard he's less reliable, but it's worth a try if you get nowhere with Marbas.

Do keep trying, though, but try not to burn yourself out or stress too much.

The more frustrated you get, the harder it'll be.

Edit: Meditation might help with sensing changes in atmosphere, especially with mental communication, and it's definitely something to try . . . breathing exercises, meditation, and visualisation can work wonders in helping invocation/evocation, I find, as it opens you up and makes you more sensitive to what's around you.

[Rin]

I'm not a veteran, certainly not with evocation, but:

I've been trying to contact Marbas to cure my friend's dad's cancer, but I've had no luck at all. I've meditated day in and day out, drew his sigil everywhere, dusted off my focusing crystals, lit my energy candle, but not even the slightest swing of the pendulum. I've read Ars Goetia cover to cover and still no luck. (Summon attempts somewhere in the 20s over the past month) I find dozens of threads where people invoke Goetic demons with no problem, but I seem to lack that magical 'x factor'. Do any of you veterans have any tips?

How much of that is the actual methodology laid out in the text? Goetia was never a massive interest of mine, but as I recall there are some fairly complicated rituals involving magical tools, the drawing of circles and whatnot. If you aren't following the recommended methodology, then I don't think you should be surprised if you don't attain the described results.

[Zephyr404]

I felt like I failed because there was absolutely no change in the 'atmosphere' around me. I'm still a novice, but it felt like I was only talking to myself. I guess you're right that I achieved a small, indirect contact, as Mr. Anon isn't in pain every day anymore. Idk, I guess I expected at least a mental conversation. I don't even know what Marbas wants in return...This stuff is much harder than it seems.

At least there was some small improvement

If the above advice - including that of LoneWolf - doesn't help, I would also recommend maybe trying a different spirit. It could be that you have a stronger rapport or connection to another, as they all have very different personality types and abilities and reactions to various summoners . . . Valefar also helps with healing, although he's primarily known for less ethical pursuits (such as thievery). I've heard he's less reliable, but it's worth a try if you get nowhere with Marbas.

Do keep trying, though, but try not to burn yourself out or stress too much.

The more frustrated you get, the harder it'll be.

Edit: Meditation might help with sensing changes in atmosphere, especially with mental communication, and it's definitely something to try . . . breathing exercises, meditation, and visualisation can work wonders in helping invocation/evocation, I find, as it opens you up and makes you more sensitive to what's around you.

Thank you for your help and advice!

[Zephyr404]

I'm not a veteran, certainly not with evocation, but:

I've been trying to contact Marbas to cure my friend's dad's cancer, but I've had no luck at all. I've meditated day in and day out, drew his sigil everywhere, dusted off my focusing crystals, lit my energy candle, but not even the slightest swing of the pendulum. I've read Ars Goetia cover to cover and still no luck. (Summon attempts somewhere in the 20s over the past month) I find dozens of threads where people invoke Goetic demons with no problem, but I seem to lack that magical 'x factor'. Do any of you veterans have any tips?

How much of that is the actual methodology laid out in the text? Goetia was never a massive interest of mine, but as I recall there are some fairly complicated rituals involving magical tools, the drawing of circles and whatnot. If you aren't following the recommended methodology, then I don't think you should be surprised if you don't attain the described results.

The only bits that I didn't use from Goetia were the techniques that are a little off-limits/inaccessible (no knives, iron obelisks, etc)

[Rin]

Fair enough, but that stuff is in there for a reason - rituals are generally not composed arbitrarily, each piece has an important role. If you alter the composition without an in-depth understanding of why it was designed the way it was, chances are you'll weaken or completely invalidate the working.

More generally speaking, evocation is an advanced magical practice. Traditionally it was something taught after someone had undergone years of philosophical training and psycho-spiritual development. If, for example, you haven't developed clairvoyance and clairaudience, how would you perceive and interact with the spirit, even if it did appear?