Lbrp help - questions and blinds

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Gate
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Lbrp help - questions and blinds

Post by Gate »

I have recently started lbrp and it feels great - really cleansing. I've modified it a bit because it feels like it's missing a steering wheel , and I'm looking for guidance on getting around the blinds. I'm working from kraigs modern magickal book. I'm also doing work with Dion's mystical qabalah and bota.

1. How do I identify and get around the blinds?
2. Why do I feel like this ritual is half evocation? I think it's silly to do banishing without evocation, so can this be used for both or do I need a seperate ritual. I've modified it to do evocation and banishing right now.

3. I'm thinking of doing middle pillar next, thoughts?

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chowderpope
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Re: Lbrp help - questions and blinds

Post by chowderpope »

I don't know about any blinds. LBRP is a decluttering ritual, to make room in your sphere by banishing the Earth element. It has to be done repeatedly, on a regular basis, for it to be transformative.

In addition to being a banishing, it is also an evocation of the archangels.

Yes, do the middle pillar next. Start the sequence with LBRP, then do MP.

If you are interested, Lyam Thomas Christopher's Kabbalah, Magic & the Great Work of Self Transformation has been a really helpful book for me concerning these rituals.
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Re: Lbrp help - questions and blinds

Post by blindwake »

If you think it's silly just to banish, banish, banish, that's because it kind of is.
There's another ritual called the Lesser Invoking Ritual of the Pentagram (LIRP) that goes with the LBRP.
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Re: Lbrp help - questions and blinds

Post by chowderpope »

blindwake wrote:If you think it's silly just to banish, banish, banish, that's because it kind of is.
There's another ritual called the Lesser Invoking Ritual of the Pentagram (LIRP) that goes with the LBRP.
If I understand right it was meant for the LIRP to follow after the student has been doing the LBRP for a good while, at least in the Golden Dawn system.
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Re: Lbrp help - questions and blinds

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If I understand right it was meant for the LIRP to follow after the student has been doing the LBRP for a good while, at least in the Golden Dawn system.
My understanding is quite the opposite. My understanding was that people following the Golden Dawn were told to do the LIRP in mornings (possibly preceded just before with an LBRP in order to prepare for the LIRP). This was to generate energy which would be used throughout the day. Then, before sleeping, the LBRP would be done instead of the LIRP so that students wouldn't be restless. It's my understanding that they were actually told to do the LIRP more often than the LBRP, and that somewhere throughout the years, people kind of just forgot about it.

I read somewhere that Golden Dawn students were given the LIRP and LBRP in the same instructions. But, I'm not exactly a history buff.
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Re: Lbrp help - questions and blinds

Post by Gate »

blindwake wrote:
If I understand right it was meant for the LIRP to follow after the student has been doing the LBRP for a good while, at least in the Golden Dawn system.
My understanding is quite the opposite. My understanding was that people following the Golden Dawn were told to do the LIRP in mornings (possibly preceded just before with an LBRP in order to prepare for the LIRP). This was to generate energy which would be used throughout the day. Then, before sleeping, the LBRP would be done instead of the LIRP so that students wouldn't be restless. It's my understanding that they were actually told to do the LIRP more often than the LBRP, and that somewhere throughout the years, people kind of just forgot about it.

I read somewhere that Golden Dawn students were given the LIRP and LBRP in the same instructions. But, I'm not exactly a history buff.
That makes sense to me. I don't want to banish everything from my life lol. Any good places to learn LIRP recommended?
I found this: https://www.scribd.com/doc/14881778/GOL ... -Pentagram

I think there are blinds in the LBRP as taught by Donald Kraig.
1. For instance, do the angels face towards or away from the practitioner while banishing? Kraigs says towards, but I feel if I'm truly to do a banish they should face outwards.
2. Also, why does he says to start the pentagram at the bottom left (earth)? Shouldn't I start at the top? Doesn't it make sense to start at the spirit?
3. Also he misses the 6-pointed start above and below and just says to put one within... misses the entire 32.

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Re: Lbrp help - questions and blinds

Post by chowderpope »

LBRP is not a banishing of everything from your life, it's a banishing of the Earth element to allow the higher self to reflect in the lower selves. It's not simply a banishing, it's a preparatory rite that allows for transformation. Actually, I think the LBRP sweeps away the dirt and makes more room for spirit. If you want to flip it and banish spirit, that would have an opposite effect, I'd imagine.

The angels might face away if their purpose was strictly protection, but I think the evocation is more to bring their balanced energies into your sphere. So I picture them with their attention on me.
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Re: Lbrp help - questions and blinds

Post by Gate »

chowderpope wrote:LBRP is not a banishing of everything from your life, it's a banishing of the Earth element to allow the higher self to reflect in the lower selves. It's not simply a banishing, it's a preparatory rite that allows for transformation. Actually, I think the LBRP sweeps away the dirt and makes more room for spirit. If you want to flip it and banish spirit, that would have an opposite effect, I'd imagine.

The angels might face away if their purpose was strictly protection, but I think the evocation is more to bring their balanced energies into your sphere. So I picture them with their attention on me.
I found that super helpful thank you so much.


I stumbled across this image which people may find helpful. There is an obvious 5th element which could be added which ties into exactly what you said chowderpope.
Image

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Re: Lbrp help - questions and blinds

Post by blindwake »

That link looks alright. I didn't read all of it, but I read a bit.

1.

I don't think it actually matters what direction the angels are facing. It's the meaning that matters. When banishing, the energy is sent out, while when invoking, the energy goes in.
Whatever is most intuitive to you works. You could imagine that the angels are facing outward like guards (when banishing), or you could imagine them as being so strong that threats merely deflect off of their backs.

2.

Here is a bit of an explanation on the pentagrams: http://www.crystalwind.ca/find-your-way ... pentagrams
When you start at earth and go to spirit, it's earth over spirit. That means that you're basically forcing spirit away in order to "ground". You're getting rid of all the energy.
When you start at spirit and go to earth, it's spirit over earth. That means that you're forcing spirit despite earth.
The reason you use earth for both invoking and banishment, is because earth contains all the other elements within it, so it works as a generic rite. It's like taking a multivitamin instead of a bunch of single ones.
You don't actually erase anything ever. You just make one thing dominant.

3.

https://hermetic.com/osiris/nbrp (Look at "4. The Affirmation of the Circle")
Hopefully that can help clear that up, because I actually don't know.

I'm not very versed in the Golden Dawn or Qabbalah. I've just spent enough time studying the symbols so I have a basic understanding of the system.
I'm more of a chaos magickian. Your mileage will vary.

My advice regarding the specifics of the ritual, is to just stop caring if you do it exactly "how it's supposed to be done". It's a framework. That's all. Everyone does it a bit differently.
I don't think there are blinds, because it's not like harry potter where you just wave a knife and confetti comes out. It's not a scientific procedure. The ritual is just a tool to help focus the mage's power.
I don't actually believe in god or angels. I think the real power in comes from the feelings that the words of power evoke. It's the mage that has the power, not the ritual. The ritual just helps them get in the zone.
If imagining pink unicorns instead of angels gives you a greater feeling of power, then do it. Analyze the ritual in order to see what meanings the ritual has, and make it personal.
If you think the hexagram at the end is like an assertion of the mage's strength, I think it would be fair to replace it with something more meaningful like, "I AM GOD", rather than "The hexagram, blah, blah, blah."
If you feel like you're just reciting stuff, and you're not really understanding it, then you're probably not doing much. What's important is that you're visualizing something, and that it has a meaning.
When everything makes too much sense, that's when you know you've got none. It's this confidence in reality that makes me uneasy.

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Re: Lbrp help - questions and blinds

Post by Rin »

Regarding the Middle Pillar, I would just chime in with what I always say when people bring it up - it's an extremely powerful technique for the generation and circulation of vital energy, and I would highly recommend at least doing 3 - 6 months of the LBRP before starting it - ideally combined with some kind of basic meditation training (and even more ideally with some kind of moving meditation, like Yoga or Taiji) and with psychotherapy (which Regardie himself recommended).

You should also do a serious evaluation of your physical health - if you're in poor cardiovascular health or have major areas of muscular tension or unaligned posture, you should probably consider improving the situation before practicing the MP.

If you imagine the energy body as a system of pipes (meridians/nadi's) through which water (energy/qi/prana) flows, the Middle Pillar has the effect (among others) a lot like cranking the pressure up by a factor of ten - which can present a problem if, like more or less every adult, you have areas of repressed and imbalanced emotion and physical health issues.

To carry the plumbing metaphor further, imagine if a section of the pipe had started to accumulate rust, which had then built up further gunk and mold (stagnated and repressed emotions) until the flow in that area had slowed to a trickle. Suddenly you crank the handle up to maximum and the massive increase in pressure blows all that built up gunk out at once, where it spreads into the entire system and starts seeping out. Where before the "gunk" was held down in a single location (although causing problems in that location), it's suddenly flooding the entire system.

Very quickly you can find yourself overwhelmed by emotions you've been holding down for years, or flooded by memories you'd forgotten. These can vary from mild flashbacks to descents into deep states of mental unwellness that can require serious treatment and take years to process and recover from (a phenomena which has been well documented in the East for millennia by practitioners of yoga and meditation, and within the last few years there's finally been some study on it within the fields of Western Psychology/Psychiatry).

In the long term, this process is generally healing and cleansing (as long as you don't damage yourself irreparably in the process), but if you push too far too fast (which can happen very easily with the Middle Pillar, especially given how pleasurable the energy flow is and how widespread it's effects are), you can cause too much of the "gunk" to come loose at once and start seeping out into the wider body.

Or imagine if a part of the piping has become bent and disarrayed over time - the increased water pressure would be unable to flow and start to cause strain on the piping. This can spill over and start causing physical health issues, sometimes severe ones.

So please, head the advice Israel Regardie gave (and read his work on the ritual before performing it, don't just use the instructions you find on some random website!). You'll be much safer, healthier and, by the end of it, much more successful as a magician, if you do so:
I t is my confirmed belief that several weeks at the very least of
patient application to the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram
should precede any effort to perform the Middle Pillar.
For one thing, it will have trained the student in several little tricks
of routine and magical technique quite apart from the intrinsic
virtues of the exercise, which is to purify and cleanse the entire
sphere of personality to the end that the higher self may manifest
through a purified body and mind. If the exercise has been labored
at for two or three months, performing it two or three times during
the course of each day, the student will approach the further stages
of magic well-prepared, quite able to cope with and accommodate
the increased vitality and power which will pour through him.
It will be realized how necessary analysis is as a preliminary routine
to magic. The student should have arrived at a fair understanding
of himself, his motives, and the mechanism of hs mind, and
integrated himself more or less thoroughly so that no dissociation or
serious neurosis exists wih the psyche. For the presence of a powerful
complex of associated ideas in the unconscious, or a marked dissociation
splitting off one part of the psyche from the other, will have
the effect of short-circuiting the flow of energy generated or released
by the Middle Pillar. An explosion in the form of a complete nervous
breakdown, or even of the destruction of mental stability will be a
likely result. Many instances have been known of unprepared students
contracting fatal physical illnesses through attempting work of
this nature, though hs is more true where Eastern exercises have
been unwisely attempted. Some of these unfortunates, when the dissociation
was rendered complete, have succumbed to chronic melancholia
or taken their own lives. These warnings are not intended to
be portentous or terrifying, but only to impress upon the student the
solemnity of these undertakings, a journey of self-conquest than
which nothing could compare in importance or seriousness - Regardie, The Middle Pillar p. 69
"The path of the Sage is called
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"

- DDJ, Verse 27

"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett

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Re: Lbrp help - questions and blinds

Post by Gate »

Rin wrote: So please, head the advice Israel Regardie gave (and read his work on the ritual before performing it, don't just use the instructions you find on some random website!). You'll be much safer, healthier and, by the end of it, much more successful as a magician...
So learning it from Modern Magick by Donald Kraig is a bad idea? Which is Regardie's book?

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Re: Lbrp help - questions and blinds

Post by Gate »

Okay - this is the best there is so far: https://hermetic.com/osiris/nbrp#

The blinds are real.

On top of this, I think the elemental positions of everything are wrong.

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