Help with evil entity during Abramelin Ritual

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Help with evil entity during Abramelin Ritual

Post by Topper »

There might be a problem developing in my life.Short background to this is that I have started the ritual of Abramelin the Mage and I am now 2 months into it.Living almost like a monk I have followed the instructions to the letter.Nothing out of the ordinary had happened until last week after I went into the little room which is my secret Oratory.I had light the lamp and incense when I became aware of like someone was watching me.With no warning suddenly a kind of figure like a weird looking guy who seemed to be transparent but dressed in modern clothes,appeared in the corner of the room.

Obviously this spooked me but what was really scary was that he told me not to continue the ritual and not to take any notice of what my Angel tells me as the Angel is deceiving me.Anyway he then disappeared.Next time I went into the room it was all as normal so I continued as it says in the book you must finish what you started.All was well but then a few days ago I was lighting the incense when the man appeared again.This time he said he had more powers than my Angel and to prove it he would show me.Then it got really bizarre and scary as he said "Watch this" and pointed to a house which I could see through my window.As I looked,the roof tiles on the house started flying off until part of the roof was exposed.When I turned round he had disappeared but the roof was still damaged.

I finished that days ritual,then went outside quickly and went down the road to the house with the damaged roof.There were several people looking up at the damage and I asked one of them what happened and they said it must have been a gust of wind.I dont know why but my Inner Self made me say "Uh..no it was an evil spirit that did it".Obviously the people who heard that thought I was a nutter
I believe this man is an evil spirit taking on a human form but the problem is how to get rid of him.When he was not present I tried a LBRP to clear the room and that only made things worse as just after doing it he mocked me saying something like "Do you think silly names and gestures will have any effect on me?" Then he laughed with a sinister tone and went.

He came back yesterday and told me all the books concerning conjurations are a trick to trap people into eternal damnation and that God will punish those who use them for all eternity.He said God knew what I was doing and had sent him to help me wise up on who is who in the spirit world.
I dont like this at all so my question is do I continue what I started or should I abandon the whole thing?What might happen if I stop?Or can anyone think of a way to get rid of this man or more correctly,evil entity or has anyone any idea on who he may be? Any help would be much appreciated. [confused]

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Re: Help with evil entity during Abramelin Ritual

Post by Cerber »

I think, If I were you I would probably stop doing whatever you are doing right now. On the other hand, I probably wouldn't have even started.


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Re: Help with evil entity during Abramelin Ritual

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Hmm..catch 22.What do you think will happen if I ditch it?I have probably jumped in at the deep end so I guess I am looking for help from someone experienced in these things or who have had similar experiences.Ye I probably should not have started the ritual but isnt that what the ultimate goal is to have some control over our destiny?

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Re: Help with evil entity during Abramelin Ritual

Post by the_spiral »

The Abramelin ritual is one of the most intense rituals ever written down, you didn't expect a little challenge along the way? Sounds to me like your resolve is being tested. How you handle the test is up to you, but in general I take everything said by random unknown spirits with a grain of salt. And I don't think another person will be able to tell you what to do here, I've only met one person in my life who's done the ritual and he doesnt talk about it. Either way I admire your bravery.
"Follow the path of the radiant life force as she flashes upward like lightning through your body." - Vijanabhairava Tantra

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Re: Help with evil entity during Abramelin Ritual

Post by Topper »

the_spiral wrote:The Abramelin ritual is one of the most intense rituals ever written down, you didn't expect a little challenge along the way? Sounds to me like your resolve is being tested. How you handle the test is up to you, but in general I take everything said by random unknown spirits with a grain of salt. And I don't think another person will be able to tell you what to do here, I've only met one person in my life who's done the ritual and he doesnt talk about it. Either way I admire your bravery.
Thats why I am here to ask for help.I know you are right.I know its down to me.Sadly this is no run of the mill spirit but an evil(or however one defines it)force that can actually manifest changes in real time.Thank you for your reply,though I take the bravery medal in truth have to hand it back to you.I now admit I am becoming scared.

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Re: Help with evil entity during Abramelin Ritual

Post by the_spiral »

Topper wrote:
the_spiral wrote:The Abramelin ritual is one of the most intense rituals ever written down, you didn't expect a little challenge along the way? Sounds to me like your resolve is being tested. How you handle the test is up to you, but in general I take everything said by random unknown spirits with a grain of salt. And I don't think another person will be able to tell you what to do here, I've only met one person in my life who's done the ritual and he doesnt talk about it. Either way I admire your bravery.
Thats why I am here to ask for help.I know you are right.I know its down to me.Sadly this is no run of the mill spirit but an evil(or however one defines it)force that can actually manifest changes in real time.Thank you for your reply,though I take the bravery medal in truth have to hand it back to you.I now admit I am becoming scared.
From what I've heard, this is what the Abramelin Ritual is all about. Facing down manifestations of evil both within and without, facing down your own worst fears. So perhaps you should turn back around...but perhaps you're on the exact right path. Please keep us posted on your progress, whatever you decide. You may also want to try the Studio Arcanis forum, as I recall they used to have a few members who'd attempted this ritual.
"Follow the path of the radiant life force as she flashes upward like lightning through your body." - Vijanabhairava Tantra

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Re: Help with evil entity during Abramelin Ritual

Post by Shawn Blackwolf »

In Gematria :

Fear = 321

Scare = 321

Violet Flame = 321

All I will say for now , is use Violet Flame to counteract fear... [thumbup]

As well , I shall tell you this :

A Demon Person Will Tell You They Are Angel

Nuff Said...

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Re: Help with evil entity during Abramelin Ritual

Post by Topper »

Shawn Blackwolf wrote:In Gematria :

Fear = 321

Scare = 321

Violet Flame = 321

All I will say for now , is use Violet Flame to counteract fear... [thumbup]

As well , I shall tell you this :

A Demon Person Will Tell You They Are Angel

Nuff Said...
Quite frankly I understood nothing of that.

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Re: Help with evil entity during Abramelin Ritual

Post by Topper »

the_spiral wrote:
Topper wrote:
the_spiral wrote:The Abramelin ritual is one of the most intense rituals ever written down, you didn't expect a little challenge along the way? Sounds to me like your resolve is being tested. How you handle the test is up to you, but in general I take everything said by random unknown spirits with a grain of salt. And I don't think another person will be able to tell you what to do here, I've only met one person in my life who's done the ritual and he doesnt talk about it. Either way I admire your bravery.
Thats why I am here to ask for help.I know you are right.I know its down to me.Sadly this is no run of the mill spirit but an evil(or however one defines it)force that can actually manifest changes in real time.Thank you for your reply,though I take the bravery medal in truth have to hand it back to you.I now admit I am becoming scared.
From what I've heard, this is what the Abramelin Ritual is all about. Facing down manifestations of evil both within and without, facing down your own worst fears. So perhaps you should turn back around...but perhaps you're on the exact right path. Please keep us posted on your progress, whatever you decide. You may also want to try the Studio Arcanis forum, as I recall they used to have a few members who'd attempted this ritual.
Thank you for your kind and helpful reply.I may have over reacted to something inherent to the system.As you said earlier,one has to expect such phenomena at this level.The work itself warns of such manifestation or temptation though I dont feel my experience was pre-conceptual.I have some experience of evocation type ritual but the feeling of this is way different as your friend will know.

You will of course be aware that technically I should not even be talking about this but as Mathers pointed out,surely recreation of some kind is permitted to keep ons sanity.On that I guess part of the reason I came here for help was also to temporarily break my line of thought but without losing focus.If this makes sense,I find it encouraging that you ask to be informed of my progress.

I wanted to give members here chance to express their opinions but your suggestion of Studio Arcanis I will certainly consider though I am not familiar with forums generally.

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Re: Help with evil entity during Abramelin Ritual

Post by Shawn Blackwolf »

Topper wrote:
Shawn Blackwolf wrote:In Gematria :

Fear = 321

Scare = 321

Violet Flame = 321

All I will say for now , is use Violet Flame to counteract fear... [thumbup]

As well , I shall tell you this :

A Demon Person Will Tell You They Are Angel

Nuff Said...
Quite frankly I understood nothing of that.
You have not heard of Violet Flame or how to use it ?

You have not heard of Gematria ?

You have not heard a Demon person will deceive you , telling
you they are an Angel or were sent by "God" ?

A little research does wonders , Topper... [thumbup]

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Re: Help with evil entity during Abramelin Ritual

Post by Topper »

Shawn Blackwolf wrote:
Topper wrote:
Shawn Blackwolf wrote:In Gematria :

Fear = 321

Scare = 321

Violet Flame = 321

All I will say for now , is use Violet Flame to counteract fear... [thumbup]

As well , I shall tell you this :

A Demon Person Will Tell You They Are Angel

Nuff Said...
Quite frankly I understood nothing of that.
You have not heard of Violet Flame or how to use it ?

You have not heard of Gematria ?

You have not heard a Demon person will deceive you , telling
you they are an Angel or were sent by "God" ?

A little research does wonders , Topper... [thumbup]
I am well aware of Gematria both Hebrew and Greek and its application which is why I wondered how you felt it relevant to what I am discussing.The Violet Flame is useless at this level as it belongs to the New Age lines of thought.

Thanks for your replies but I am hoping for advice from those familiar with and or experienced in the Abramelin system.

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Re: Help with evil entity during Abramelin Ritual

Post by Topper »

the_spiral wrote:The Abramelin ritual is one of the most intense rituals ever written down, you didn't expect a little challenge along the way? Sounds to me like your resolve is being tested. How you handle the test is up to you, but in general I take everything said by random unknown spirits with a grain of salt. And I don't think another person will be able to tell you what to do here, I've only met one person in my life who's done the ritual and he doesnt talk about it. Either way I admire your bravery.
Would it be possible for you to ask the person you knew who contemplated this for their advice?If not dont worry.I looked around the index of Studio Arcanis but there are only 12 items on Abramelin mainly modern NAP ideas that are way off the mark.Someone mentioned Occult Corpus has some serious Occutists but it seems hard to join as I heard it takes aeons to get registered.

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Re: Help with evil entity during Abramelin Ritual

Post by Shawn Blackwolf »

Topper wrote: I am well aware of Gematria both Hebrew and Greek and its application which is why I wondered how you felt it relevant to what I am discussing.The Violet Flame is useless at this level as it belongs to the New Age lines of thought.

Thanks for your replies but I am hoping for advice from those familiar with and or experienced in the Abramelin system.
Violet Flame comes from Ancient Knowledge...Sufi , and other traditions have used it for healing and protection...

As far as Abramelin Ritual , and the book...let's just say I spent time on a mountain in my twenties ,
with this hardbound edition of the work...interesting year... [wink]

https://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Magic-Abr ... B000OTF12O

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Re: Help with evil entity during Abramelin Ritual

Post by the_spiral »

Topper wrote:
the_spiral wrote:The Abramelin ritual is one of the most intense rituals ever written down, you didn't expect a little challenge along the way? Sounds to me like your resolve is being tested. How you handle the test is up to you, but in general I take everything said by random unknown spirits with a grain of salt. And I don't think another person will be able to tell you what to do here, I've only met one person in my life who's done the ritual and he doesnt talk about it. Either way I admire your bravery.
Would it be possible for you to ask the person you knew who contemplated this for their advice?If not dont worry.I looked around the index of Studio Arcanis but there are only 12 items on Abramelin mainly modern NAP ideas that are way off the mark.Someone mentioned Occult Corpus has some serious Occutists but it seems hard to join as I heard it takes aeons to get registered.
I'm sorry, I haven't seen this person in some time. I've reached out to a few others in my circle and if I find anyone with the experience to help, I'll connect you. My intuition from reading parts of the text (and take this with a grain of salt since I've never attempted the ritual) is that this is an expected part of the trials it puts you through before meeting your HGA. But of course I could be wrong. And I wouldn't dismiss Shawn's insights either. But ultimately this is about you and up to YOU.
"Follow the path of the radiant life force as she flashes upward like lightning through your body." - Vijanabhairava Tantra

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Re: Help with evil entity during Abramelin Ritual

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Topper wrote:
the_spiral wrote:The Abramelin ritual is one of the most intense rituals ever written down, you didn't expect a little challenge along the way? Sounds to me like your resolve is being tested. How you handle the test is up to you, but in general I take everything said by random unknown spirits with a grain of salt. And I don't think another person will be able to tell you what to do here, I've only met one person in my life who's done the ritual and he doesnt talk about it. Either way I admire your bravery.
Thats why I am here to ask for help.I know you are right.I know its down to me.Sadly this is no run of the mill spirit but an evil(or however one defines it)force that can actually manifest changes in real time.Thank you for your reply,though I take the bravery medal in truth have to hand it back to you.I now admit I am becoming scared.
Hello Topper.I very rarely frequent this forum but your post was pointed out to me and I may be able to offer assistance in your present dilemma.
Firstly I see The Spiral has given some constructive advice and I do not want to interfere in your interaction with her.I can also echo her thoughts in that I too admire your bravery.Genuine undertaking of the Abramelin rite has always been incredibly rare,today more so.
Most Adepts will agree this undertaking to be one of the most testing and possibly dangerous that exists and as Spiral observes,there is from the onset a testing of your resolve,sincerity and strength.

From your remarks on Mathers I assume you are using his version and if so this may indicate the root of your problem.Georg Dehn has edited a new revised version of the Abramelin system in which the mistakes and omissions Mathers made including the actual Magic Squares themselves,are resolved.Critics of that work argue how the mistakes are irrelevant considering the contemplation of e HGA will be ultimately down to the practitioner.However,many of those critics seem unaware the Abramelin system is in fact based upon earlier magical MSS and it is possible the answer to your problem is not within the Abramelin system but rather contained in the texts he drew from.

I am in a position to offer help from experts whose opinions have a solid foundation both empirically and scholarly.The former is crucial and combined with input at the highest level of academic analysis you have a formidable aid at hand.Though I am familiar with the Abramelin system,this is at a research level only and the only advice I can personally offer immediately is wholly based on input from a case history relayed to me in the past.
Therefore,based on that my advice is not to suddenly abandon your undertaking.By doing so you may face possible danger of later psychological damage caused through a subjective feeling of failure.

You should also be aware that Mathers-and Crowley more so,shortened the original eighteen month undertaking and this will be to your advantage in resolving the issue.Again,from that same case history and from genuine accounts I have seen,it seems fairly certain this entity you have encountered will dissipate by the start of the third month.The bad news is that this entity will also with equal certainty attempt to force you away from your obligations.Essentially it will be a battle of Wills within an arena where the concious confronts the sub-concious and where reason and logic are pitted against atavistic primordial suggestions hurled at it.

If you feel I can be of help then PM me and we can take it from there as for various reasons I am reluctant to discuss this any further here,
Woe if I reveal,Woe if I do not reveal...

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Re: Help with evil entity during Abramelin Ritual

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Thank you so much for this Violetstar.I would really appreciate your help as I can see from your remarks you have knowledge far in excess of my own.This has lifted me and restored my faith in the belief someone would be out there with sensible advice.You need not worry about my further participation on this forum where I met with hostility from a member here while talking to a guy about entheogens.He was helpful but suddenly I received an unwarranted attack from his partner who accused me of talking BS.I can only assume his partner was jealous of me talking to him for some childish reason.I hardly came here to break up couples but simply to ask for help as you can see.
Rather than risk further antagonism and having noted you run a blog,would it be possible to contact you there?I also note you are reluctant to add further remarks here and as I feel unwelcome here it would be preferable that way.
I will check back to see how I should proceed.

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Re: Help with evil entity during Abramelin Ritual

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Topper wrote:Thank you so much for this Violetstar.I would really appreciate your help as I can see from your remarks you have knowledge far in excess of my own.This has lifted me and restored my faith in the belief someone would be out there with sensible advice.You need not worry about my further participation on this forum where I met with hostility from a member here while talking to a guy about entheogens.He was helpful but suddenly I received an unwarranted attack from his partner who accused me of talking BS.I can only assume his partner was jealous of me talking to him for some childish reason.I hardly came here to break up couples but simply to ask for help as you can see.
Rather than risk further antagonism and having noted you run a blog,would it be possible to contact you there?I also note you are reluctant to add further remarks here and as I feel unwelcome here it would be preferable that way.
I will check back to see how I should proceed.
It makes no difference to me either way so if you would prefer to contact me there I will be pleased to hear from you.I also find it remarkably interesting to hear from someone in real time involvement in what most will agree is magic at its highest and most demanding level.
All I can say now is from a quick look at some of the replies to your previous posts my advice is to move on rather than attempting to defend yourself against ridicule from unenlightened and misinformed comments.

That said,in the meantime you should keep to your ritual observances until we can formulate steps to resolve your dilemma and help make a decision on your best course of action.
Woe if I reveal,Woe if I do not reveal...

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Re: Help with evil entity during Abramelin Ritual

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This is great news for me.Thank you for your quick reply and kind approach.As I said earlier I did not think Mathers was wrong to say that recreation would surely not cause problems by breaking up the intense isolation required inherent to the undertaking.I had planned to join into discussions on this forum for that reason aside from hoping for help.That help has materialised and there seems little benefit in my continuance here especially as I just saw a comment that suggested I was holding a lower level of spiritual awareness than others here.Of course,hey are all experts on everything.Of course they are.
You are correct in assuming I am using Mathers translation and I am keen to learn the differences from the original.I am nearing the third month so your remarks on that stage are heartening.From the start I have blended the incense.Perfume and Oil myself from the revised ingredients listed in an article that I deemed reliable but the Garments I had to buy though they are consecrated within the relevant process.I will tell you more on my background and experience in ritual magic over the last 25 or so years which seems irrelevant at this level.As I also said before soon after starting the undertaking you soon realise you are at a whole new ball game where previous magical thought goes out of the window.

I will get in touch as soon as I am able and will continue my obligations as you advise.Before I leave I would also like to express my thanks to The Spiral for her kind and considerate help.As they say. I'm out of here.

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Re: Help with evil entity during Abramelin Ritual

Post by the_spiral »

violetstar wrote:You should also be aware that Mathers-and Crowley more so,shortened the original eighteen month undertaking and this will be to your advantage in resolving the issue.Again,from that same case history and from genuine accounts I have seen,it seems fairly certain this entity you have encountered will dissipate by the start of the third month.The bad news is that this entity will also with equal certainty attempt to force you away from your obligations.Essentially it will be a battle of Wills within an arena where the concious confronts the sub-concious and where reason and logic are pitted against atavistic primordial suggestions hurled at it.
This was EXACTLY my intuition about what was going on, but I didn't want to speak presumptuously. It seems like the entity is testing him to see if his fear is stronger than his resolve. I think Topper is in good hands with your expertise.

Also, did either of you ever watch the recent horror movie "A Dark Song"? I was surprised to find it depicted a fairly straightforward account of the Abramelin Ritual. It's so rare to stumble across any references to this ritual in popular culture, and even rarer to meet people actively undergoing it.
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Re: Help with evil entity during Abramelin Ritual

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the_spiral wrote:
violetstar wrote:You should also be aware that Mathers-and Crowley more so,shortened the original eighteen month undertaking and this will be to your advantage in resolving the issue.Again,from that same case history and from genuine accounts I have seen,it seems fairly certain this entity you have encountered will dissipate by the start of the third month.The bad news is that this entity will also with equal certainty attempt to force you away from your obligations.Essentially it will be a battle of Wills within an arena where the concious confronts the sub-concious and where reason and logic are pitted against atavistic primordial suggestions hurled at it.
This was EXACTLY my intuition about what was going on, but I didn't want to speak presumptuously. It seems like the entity is testing him to see if his fear is stronger than his resolve. I think Topper is in good hands with your expertise.

Also, did either of you ever watch the recent horror movie "A Dark Song"? I was surprised to find it depicted a fairly straightforward account of the Abramelin Ritual. It's so rare to stumble across any references to this ritual in popular culture, and even rarer to meet people actively undergoing it.
Thank you for the added input.Sadly it looks like Topper has abandoned the forum though you may have seen his note of appreciation for your aid.I will pass him on to the relevant people whose expertise and scholarship is above my own levels of achievement.
On that,your film knowledge is greater than mine and I had no idea of the film you mention being out there.How fascinating and I will have to see this one!
I was pleased to find your level of comprehension was up to the mark in analysing Toppers predicament.As I reiterated to him,your advice was itself based on firm ground and in no way did I wish to intrude on your interaction with him.

Like the film,it is rare to come across someone actually attempting the Abramelin system which requires tremendous discipline and as you say,bravery.It is one thing to work within your own small ritual but to contemplate a face to face confrontation with vehement and malignant forces of evil is to go where angels fear-excluding the HGA of course..

That being said I can only encourage you on your own path and to build upon your own expertise within it.
Woe if I reveal,Woe if I do not reveal...

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Re: Help with evil entity during Abramelin Ritual

Post by Shawn Blackwolf »

Spiral said :

"It seems like the entity is testing him to see if his fear is stronger than his resolve."

And *this* is exactly why my first post , trying to help , when he mentioned being scared ,
was to suggest working with the Violet Flame , as that is a counter to fear , and the idea ,
concept , and practice is ancient...

( sometimes you try to help , but people just don't get it...oh well )

I am sure those two will work together well...they seem on similar frequencies... [wink]

I did find it amusing someone who made incorrect and insulting statements about witches ,
then told me I was Wiccan , and New Age , having *no idea* what my true tradition is ,
would feel insulted when I called him on his crap , and accuse me of being Spida's "partner"... [lol]

( Friends , yes , online , partners ? Uh , no I don't think so... [lol] )

Is this a normal mental occurrence when certain people attempt difficult ritual ?

And the Abramelin Working is not the only way of getting in contact with your Holy Guardian Angel...

Some of us used different techniques , and accomplished the same thing , because we don't
give our power over to some god , or follow that tradition of magic...and ours is just as valid ,
whether it is understood by others , or not...that has no bearing on our personal success... [thumbup]

However , I wish Topper well , on his path , and hope along the way , he awakens to his personal prejudice
and arrogance...as we say in the Old Goat tradition : "It Would Be Hoove One To Do So" , but that is a
Pan Pun , so some might not get it... [wink]

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Re: Help with evil entity during Abramelin Ritual

Post by the_spiral »

Shawn Blackwolf wrote:And *this* is exactly why my first post , trying to help , when he mentioned being scared ,
was to suggest working with the Violet Flame , as that is a counter to fear , and the idea ,
concept , and practice is ancient...

( sometimes you try to help , but people just don't get it...oh well )
I thought your Violet Flame suggestion was a good one. But I suspect the prejudices emerging now are normal to this stage of the ritual. As well as the evil entity manifesting and giving voice to his inner fears and uncertainties. He may think back on your advice at a later stage and find it usefuI. I think he came to the right place, at the right time, and heard the right things, and his quest will be successful [thumbup]
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Re: Help with evil entity during Abramelin Ritual

Post by Sypheara »

Pity I didn't see this one earlier.

Ive not done the Abramelin but ive done similar powerful transmutative works over long periods of time (years) that were directly given to me. Giving up in the middle of them is not really an option - they are very much 'do or die'. Stopping mid way could have serious consequences - once you begin you need to be resolved to see it through.

You need to have faith in both yourself, the process, and whatever it is that you work with guiding you infallibly (for me, Hecate and Co). As people above have said, this thing will be actively trying to make you fail.

It is to use a Christian metaphor no different than Satan in the desert trying to tempt Jesus in the desert.
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Cerber
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Re: Help with evil entity during Abramelin Ritual

Post by Cerber »

What a pitty, I was a bit curious of the progress [stare]
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violetstar
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Re: Help with evil entity during Abramelin Ritual

Post by violetstar »

Sypheara wrote:Pity I didn't see this one earlier.

Ive not done the Abramelin but ive done similar powerful transmutative works over long periods of time (years) that were directly given to me. Giving up in the middle of them is not really an option - they are very much 'do or die'. Stopping mid way could have serious consequences - once you begin you need to be resolved to see it through.

You need to have faith in both yourself, the process, and whatever it is that you work with guiding you infallibly (for me, Hecate and Co). As people above have said, this thing will be actively trying to make you fail.

It is to use a Christian metaphor no different than Satan in the desert trying to tempt Jesus in the desert.
I would like to hear any(sensible)ideas on who or what the entity actually is.Those familiar with the Abramelin system will have seen how near the start of the contemplation,a man appears to offer you great things etc.similar to Jesus with Satan as you say.
What I find is a parallel with the enigmatic Angel of the Lord,who sometimes acts as God but at other times works independently.In Biblical thought,the Devil(s)cannot do this but must first seek permission from God in order to act. cf Book of Job in OT

Bit too complex to recount here but those interested can see the problems encountered and some ideas in an article submitted to my blog entitled 'An Unexpected Visitor'.This Angel is ready to destroy or harm but also offers prophetic wisdom.In the same way,Topper watched as 'evil spirits' ripped tiles from a roof nearby.Perhaps as the onlookers suggested it was a freak gust of wind but even then how coincidental the entity knew it would happen.

Have you encountered anything similar within a ritual environment?Has anyone?
Woe if I reveal,Woe if I do not reveal...

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