Marijuana?

[Muloc7253]

Anyone here ingest?

I'm a fairly regular smoker, good few times a week. I'm hoping to get involved with a local group or circle soon, but am not sure just how much it is frowned up (or not) amongst occultists. This might seem silly given some of the occult's most valued writers passtimes, but you'd be surprised at how many at least pagan/new age types stick their nose up at "drugs".

So do you smoke? Are you against it? Or do you just not give a rats ass.

[TheSeeker]

First thing I thought when I saw this topic was, "No thanks, got some! "
I smoke it pretty much daily.
Now what was the question?
Yeah, considering how many people here in Canada either smoke or don't care, it has really been quite surprising for me to have discovered over the years that most groups I've come in contact with frown on it's use.
I think it's ridiculous personally, considering how widely it's use is documented in the Literature, as they say...

[entropic]

Never liked it for some reason, alchohol seems to be the 'poison' I'm comfortable with.

But I of course dont mind others smoking, I'm not against it.

[Moth]

I don't smoke, so the one time I tried Marijuana I coughed myself blue and got no benefit out of it...

[Q789]

I think you will find that Magick and Thelema is not against drugs.

I suggest you don't bring it up with the local group you go to............best kept to yourself for various reasons- not to mention the legal one.

Personally, I don't drink or drug as i am alcoholic. However, if I could find LSD I would use it as it opens the clairvoyant senses tremendously. Pot too my very well do the same- in fact it does but not as strong.

I also suggest you keep the majority of your practical magick away from pot- as you should learn to deal with psychic issues without pot. Perhaps mix the tow when you know what you are doing.

Q

[TheSeeker]

I don't know, Man...
I have a couple of things to say on this subject.
First of all, with only a few responses Muloc, you can see how diverse the opinions are on this subject. I really don't know if there is a right answer to your query.
I think though, that you're going to find that most Groups/Coven/Guys-With-Lodge-Hats-And-Go-Karts do tend to frown on the use of drugs --at least within a Group Working context.

Groups that I have worked with in the past have for the most part been accepting or indifferent to people's personal habits outside of the Group activities. However, my understanding of this is that it is not so much a moral judgement as it is an emphasis on the importance of everyone being physically and psychically on the same page during a Working/Rite/Whatever. I've mentioned in other posts my involvement some time ago with a Dionysian Group. Our chalice could hold 2 litres of wine, and as a result the Group Workings were frequently out of control. However, smoking weed was verboten.
Probably a good thing too, in retrospect; I likely would have hurled...

Alternatively there is this to consider: in Georgia [USSR, not USA], archaeological excavations of Kurgans [mound burials], recovered a significant amount of weed from just one burial alone; you can likely Google it. In fact, the Internet is simply lousy with information on the use of entheogens in a ritual context.
Check this place out, if you haven't already: http://www.deoxy.org

And, don't forget: weed was sacred to Freya! [grin2]

So, as far as your personal habits are concerned I think the only thing that is really important for you to keep in mind is a wariness of becoming involved with any Group that would dictate how you should live your personal life outside of your involvement in ritual, study groups, etc. That there would be the kind of activity that by definition borders on cult-like. Which reminds me...

Many years ago the late Isaac Bonewitz published a papaer on the Net called "The Advanced Bonewits’ Cult Danger Evaluation Frame,". If you don't have a lot of experience with Groups it's worth a read. It'll provide you with food for thought when you're trying to discern between a legitimate group of occultists and people you really don't want to be involved with.
You can find that document here: http://www.neopagan.net/ABCDEF.html

[Nahemah]

Wot TheSeeker says x 1000. [thumbup]

Right now,it's the one thing stopping me from tearing at the weepy,soggy mess that is left of the skin on my hands.Seriously.

A severe acute flare of contact dermatitis and subsequent infection thereof,has left me in a lot of pain and with useless hands for the next wee while.It's also the main reason why I can type this post atm.[ That and cotton gloves,actually ]

The creams and treatments are healing the condition,[but they are very uncomfortable to use] the MJ is soothing my mind and helping me control the urge to scratch and the burning pains.

Alternatively there is this to consider: in Georgia [USSR, not USA], archaeological excavations of Kurgans [mound burials], recovered a significant amount of weed from just one burial alone; you can likely Google it. In fact, the Internet is simply lousy with information on the use of entheogens in a ritual context.
Check this place out, if you haven't already: http://www.deoxy.org

And, don't forget: weed was sacred to Freya! [grin2]

This especially.And the below,I agree with wholeheartedly too:

So, as far as your personal habits are concerned I think the only thing that is really important for you to keep in mind is a wariness of becoming involved with any Group that would dictate how you should live your personal life outside of your involvement in ritual, study groups, etc. That there would be the kind of activity that by definition borders on cult-like. Which reminds me...

Many years ago the late Isaac Bonewitz published a papaer on the Net called "The Advanced Bonewits’ Cult Danger Evaluation Frame,". If you don't have a lot of experience with Groups it's worth a read. It'll provide you with food for thought when you're trying to discern between a legitimate group of occultists and people you really don't want to be involved with.
You can find that document here: http://www.neopagan.net/ABCDEF.html

Bonewitz's Cult Frame.This is gold.I has it posted as a sticky on my old forum and I highly recommend everybody read it, at least once.

Also this:

http://www.chaosmatrix.org/library/magi ... ifton.html

[Rauðolfr]

used to love it, but found it totally blitzed my creativity fo about a week after a heavy session. and as creativity is my livelyhood and raison d'etre i didn't like it. shrooms are much nicer.
have absolutely no problem with others doing whatever they want as long as it doesnt turn them into jerks... and sometimes IMHO maryjane is the cure for acting like a jerk.

[Muloc7253]

Thanks very much for the responses.

I think whats strangest to me is how accepting occultists are of drinking. It can't possibly be conceived to be more useful in magical workings (or as a magicians pasttime) then marijuana, and any criticism one could give of using marijuana as a magician could be applied tenfold to those that drink. I think it really comes down to the stigma attatched, you'd expect occultists to be more open-minded and less susceptible to propaganda but I suppose not.

[entropic]

Thanks very much for the responses.

I think whats strangest to me is how accepting occultists are of drinking. It can't possibly be conceived to be more useful in magical workings (or as a magicians pasttime) then marijuana, and any criticism one could give of using marijuana as a magician could be applied tenfold to those that drink. I think it really comes down to the stigma attatched, you'd expect occultists to be more open-minded and less susceptible to propaganda but I suppose not.

I have no idea who says one cant be more useful than the other or that alchohol is "worse", since I never heard/paid attention to theories about this, just speaking from personal experience:
Any 'magical workings' when stoned is impossible since I just cant focus(?) on anything, not really sure what the problem is but cant make anything work. While judging by the results there are no such thing as 'too drunk'.

For some reason the same applies to drawing or painting, I cant do either while stoned.

[Muloc7253]

I suppose people respond differently. Alcohol makes me excitable, stupid and eventually sick. Marijuana makes me feel peaceful and creative.

[TheSeeker]

Thanks very much for the responses.
I think whats strangest to me is how accepting occultists are of drinking. It can't possibly be conceived to be more useful in magical workings (or as a magicians pasttime) then marijuana, and any criticism one could give of using marijuana as a magician could be applied tenfold to those that drink. I think it really comes down to the stigma attatched, you'd expect occultists to be more open-minded and less susceptible to propaganda but I suppose not.

That was kind of my point about the Dionysians, and why I said that there probably isn't a right answer to your question.
I think you'll find that, in spite of the air of liberality that hovers around the reputation of paganism in general, that there are still a huge number of people involved in the occult who are actually very conservative.
Personally, I make it a practice to simply respect the wishes of others and go with the consensus of the Group. I really don't think smoking weed matters. In fact I frequently --okay, almost always-- use an entheogenic component when I Cross Over, and have never had a bad experience.
Perhaps, the best way to approach it is to simply find out what a given Group's view of the subject is; and then, either twist one up or keep your mouth shut and wait until you get home. [lol]

I have no idea who says one cant be more useful than the other or that alchohol is "worse", since I never heard/paid attention to theories about this, just speaking from personal experience:
Any 'magical workings' when stoned is impossible since I just cant focus(?) on anything, not really sure what the problem is but cant make anything work. While judging by the results there are no such thing as 'too drunk'.
For some reason the same applies to drawing or painting, I cant do either while stoned.

I don't think I've ever actually heard anyone say that alcohol is 'worse'. I have however heard many 'non-users' claim that marijuana is worse because it affects one's ability to concentrate or focus.
I would, speaking from my own personal experience, hypothesize that the entire question comes down to one's physical constitution.
Some people can drink, some can smoke, some do neither, some do both.
I can't paint or draw when I'm drunk! [grin2]

Something else occurred to me just now, as well: I was considering whether or not the objections of 'non-users' originates from their own unfamiliarity with altered states of consciousness.
During my wilder days I had occasion to see some pretty weird shit, and so my personal base-line for what I think of as strange or frightening is perhaps considerably higher than it would be for someone who is more steadfastly anchored in this aspect of Reality to begin with, and perhaps somewhat less experienced with the magic fanged meat gnomes peaking out at them from their hidey holes in the trunks of the purple broccoli trees... [eek]

[Nahemah]

I think you'll find that, in spite of the air of liberality that hovers around the reputation of paganism in general, that there are still a huge number of people involved in the occult who are actually very conservative.

Can I get an amen on that,brother! Yep,I've found this to be so too. [thumbup]

I frequently --okay, almost always-- use an entheogenic component when I Cross Over, and have never had a bad experience.

Me too,I often add Absinthe and burn some mugwort too,for a fuller bodied experience,lol...but yeh. [greensmile]

I don't think I've ever actually heard anyone say that alcohol is 'worse'. I have however heard many 'non-users' claim that marijuana is worse because it affects one's ability to concentrate or focus.

That always gets me chuckling,so how can a 'non user' tell this,exactly...?

I find it helps me channel the flow of information in a more streamlined way,it helps me to focus more,not less.Odd that,eh?

Something else occurred to me just now, as well: I was considering whether or not the objections of 'non-users' originates from their own unfamiliarity with altered states of consciousness.
During my wilder days I had occasion to see some pretty weird shit, and so my personal base-line for what I think of as strange or frightening is perhaps considerably higher than it would be for someone who is more steadfastly anchored in this aspect of Reality to begin with, and perhaps somewhat less experienced with the magic fanged meat gnomes peaking out at them from their hidey holes in the trunks of the purple broccoli trees... [eek]

The above applies for me also.Allegedly,lol...