Do you believe in magickal life extension?

[Venefica]

Ok, just for fun and to get this new section started. Do you think magick can be used to halt or slow aging and thereby keeping a human being alive longer than the natural 80 plus minus some years? I think magick can prolong human life. For the first it can better ones health and therefore give a longer and fuller life. But I also think it is possible to use magick to halt aging. To me aging is an illness like any other, and it can be healed.

[Nahemah]

"Maybe, I do not know, but it can better ones health."

I answered this.I accept we can interfere with life/death processes magickally.I am interested in hearing more about this and transhumanism,I have an open mind,but I know very little about it all.

[Rikoshi]

I am going to say that it CAN, but not very effectively.

Magic often works through long scale series of coincidences. However this effect is accomplished, it likely uses ripple effects- making some tiny change to cause a cascade of other changes. For example, a small telepathic nudge may cause someone you would not have met otherwise to have a hankering for Chinese food at just the right time that you run into them. However, the aging process and death prevention would require a massive amount of small changes- for instance, every cell in your body would have to have the teleomeric regeneration gene activated to keep from naturally breaking down. In addition, some way to prevent these cells from going cancerous would have to be implemented across every cell in the body. Getting the first step to work would be impressive enough, but the second would almost assuredly require the growth of extra-human organs.

I would say it is possible for magick to cause changes that would increase one's health, lower incidence of illness, and such, allowing one to live a very long life- but immortality through magick, as magick operates currently, would be a monumental task, virtually impossible. This is, of course, speaking of biological immortality. Other forms of immortality seem far more practical.

[Venefica]

The way I see it one have to work with another Paradigm than the Western medicine one in mind to do this. Looking at the world through the eyes of for example Chinese medicine which sees the physical as just a representation of Energy this would be much more easy. After all in Chinese medicine aging is just a depletion of the body's pre natal Energy reserves, refilling these reserves would in theory prevent or even reverse aging. Several Taoist paths devote itself to searching for physical immortality and uses this as a basis, refilling the body's Energy reserves. I think that to work effective magick, changing what Paradigm one see the world though can be very useful.

[Rikoshi]

Perhaps, if one were to be secluded enough from the paradigms and energies of Western medicine, one might be able to totally escape the reality of DNA, chemicals, oxygen, etc. Perhaps. But, just as I've said that atheists make great counter magic, so does scientific thought. You might be able to abandon Western medicine, but unless the world moves with you, it will likely be your will versus the will of many more, in a process long pondered by mystics before you.

Alchemists and mystics from many traditions have tried to overcome death, achieve immortality, but if any have, we certainly do not meet them. Which I think might really prove the point- as reality currently stands, the achievement of physical immortality is either so difficult that few if any ever attain it, or so sensitive to the depredations of mankind's will, they must hide away from the world.

[Venefica]

The way I see it is that if one balance ones health and stay young with the Chinese system then that will show up if you have a health check by a Western doctor as having young cells and being a young person. I once watched my mother heal a microwave oven. It had not worked for months, but as she was learning Reiki she had been told she could try to heal machines, she tried and the microwave immediately started working and worked for years until she got a better one. Now my mother know little about machines, she just healed it. I have at times healed machines, especially computers, if I begin to think about programing and all the little wires and connections and what not and affecting each with magick, then I would be overwhelmed. I do it simply instead, sending Energy for the machine to just work. I know how a computer works, and I do not abandon that knowledge, but I do not focus on that and look at it though a different Paradigm when I heal the machines.

I do not know if any have ever attained physical immortality, but I know that if any have, they would most likely not be out on the Internet bragging about it or writing books about it or generally announcing it.

[Pyarun]

Certainly it can, i dont know if i would want to do it, and if i wanted to i dont know how successful i would, personally, be, but im pretty sure it can. One way to achieve this, closest to the way my mind currently works, would be to dissociate one's physical body from fixed time, i dont know if one could achieve COMPLETE separation in the current circumstances but even a partial dissociation would prolong one's life.

[awriterscorned]

I hope it's possible, but I don't know yet. I haven't really learned enough about magic to know yet.

[Philoneus Bosch]

Yes, I collect the techniques.

[Venefica]

Certainly it can, i dont know if i would want to do it, and if i wanted to i dont know how successful i would, personally, be, but im pretty sure it can. One way to achieve this, closest to the way my mind currently works, would be to dissociate one's physical body from fixed time, i dont know if one could achieve COMPLETE separation in the current circumstances but even a partial dissociation would prolong one's life.

Very interesting, do you have any idea of how to do this?

Yes, I collect the techniques.

Me to, or in other words, I will show you mine if you show me yours.

[Philoneus Bosch]

no

[Venefica]

Why not?

[Philoneus Bosch]

Because they're mine,mine mine, all mine! Mine, do you hear? Mine! Not yours, mine!

[Philoneus Bosch]

Only joking (honest). I'll dig a few out and post them,ok?

[Philoneus Bosch]

Sorry to have taken so long to reply Venefica.I would like to offer the follwing.In herbal magic there are several plants which are (or were ) believed to offer life extension.To this end I submit the following. The Alchemilla mollis (Ladies mantle) whose name derives ultimately from the word 'alchemy'was believed in western Europe to be intrinsic to the creation of the Philosopher's Stone in that the beads of dew which gather at the heart of the leaves (especially on Midsummers Day) held the ability to not only give the user beauty if collected and used as a face wash at dawn of that day, but also could be employed as the water used to submerge the compounds created in the search for the Stone.Some believed that the water thus gathered would give immortality or at least a prolonged life if gathered at dawn on Midsummers day and drank.The leaves of the plant can also be usefully employed (at any time of year) in charms which need an element of secrecy or which indicate change occuring in secret.
Another plant which promises the same thing is the Inula helenium (Elecampane or Elfwort) which is ruled by both Mercury and the Sun, the leaves and roots of which if made into a drink supposedly gives eternal life. I must admit thought that I dont know exactly how to produce this drink and it may be extremely dangerous to try this without expert advice.I'll post more as I find them. I hope this was of some use or interest.

[Venefica]

Thank you for the information. And yes I knew you where joking I just have not had time to answer before now.

One methods I have been experimenting with lately is sympathetic magick with something which do not age, it can be something in fiction or something in nature. For now I have used something in fiction and then write up a spell saying that I want to be unaging like this thing. I think at least one of the keys to stop aging is to make oneself believing that one will not age. I believe that the mind control the body to a great degree, and pepole are told from birth that they will age and die, with that kind of attitude it is not strange that pepole do just that. I think that we can slow our own aging down allot if we stop believing that we will age.

[Philoneus Bosch]

Very true , I use very much the same thing and maybe it has worked. I still look about 38 and I'm nearly 50,cant afford botox or fillers, smoke (occasionally), drink, eat anything that stands still long enough.It is a matter of the right attitude,the right actions and the right DNA. Unfortunately my family all die before they reach 70 so I've either got about 20yrs left or a great challenge ahead of me. Being an optomist helps too.

[Venefica]

I have been lucky with my genes, my family are usually long lived and most have been healthy, and even those which where not healthy lived quite long for their condition. Being optimistic helps yes. I do not know if my efforts have worked yet. I am 28 years old. I do not know how old I look, but my hubby and my mother say it is hard to pin down exactly how old I look, I guess I will find out as I grow older if I can manage to stop or at least slow the aging process.

[Seth]

I don't think ill age. I have this innate feeling ill look young for a very long time. I think thats probably why, my beleif will create the reality, the reality of me not aging will create a psychic shock, sending it back to me in the past, giving me this nagging feeling im not going to age. Or maybe im delusional.

[Venefica]

I do not think that sound delusional at all. I think that belief is at least half the work, that if one do not believe one will age then that might very well make sure that one do not. I think that aging have been with the human kind for as long as it has due to pepole believing in it and all but creating a death cult. Look around you it is everywhere, in song texts, nursery rhymes, in everyday speech everywhere, and acceptance of aging and death. I think that if one step outside of that death cult and refuse to accept death by belief and by will that that might very well be key to avoiding it.

[Seth]

Thank you Venefica. In 10 years time, ill tell you how its turned out

I agree with you on the death cult idea. Its hard to pull yourselfs out of ideas and belief structures that seem only too real. But then what is really "real".

[Venefica]

Let me know how it works for you in ten years and I will let you know how it works for me.

I think that working with separation oneself from undesirable belief system begins with language. Avoiding such sayings as in my time, what do it matter in a hundred years, until death do us part and so on. If one believe one will live forever, perhaps one will, and the trick to making oneself believe that is not say the oposite all the time.

[Seth]

I completely agree. Those sayings are affirmations, but they have a lot more "oomph" behind them because we see the effects of these beliefs all around us. We give too much of our power to negative beliefs. Might as well swap them out for more positive, life affirming ideas.

[Venefica]

I agree. Also notice how many are aggressively against life extension, many would think you evil, selfish or silly for even wanting it. I have been threatened on my life twice by pepole when I tell them I am into life extension or trying to attain eternal life. And look at science, many scientists go out of their way to avoid life extension research. There was this article that I read about regeneration, basically many scientists is working on ways to make human being regrow lost limbs or organs just like some lizards and fish can do. At the end of the article the lady scientist said that the research could off course have possible use for life extension, however she had no interest in that. She was so afraid pepole would think her into life extension research she had to use tome in the article to explain in detail that she was not even if her research could be used for that purpose.

[Seth]

If people didn't die, we would simply run out of space and resources. Of course, that's only one side of it. I just don't think 90 years (average) is enough for me, so for me life and death is a choice (as it should be for everyone).

I had a conversation with someone once on the same subject. I had given them my opinion, and there response was "Your life here isn't suppose to be permanent, eventually you'll have to move on." I said "Well of course, but ill move on when I'm ready and I won't be ready within 100 or even 200 years". They said "How do you know that?" I said "Because its my choice, because I want the time"