Do you think anyone have done it? Do you think there exist immortals?

Post by **Venefica** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:01 pm

This might seam like a strange and flaky idea, but humor me. I have been interested in magickal life extension nearly all my life however at times when I am down I am thinking, who am I to think I can do something none else have done, the my mother and hubby usually say, how do you know? How do you know there are not immortal pepole in the world that just do not feel like announcing it. So the question is do you think there might be immortals in the world that we just do not know about?

I think it might be possible, I know that if I would a way to stop aging I sure as hell would not announce it to the world, I mean I have received death threats just because I am into life extension, not to mention that one would have one's doors run down by pepole wanting to learn. I do not know if there is immortals in the world, but I think it is possible that there is and I sure as hell hope that there is.

frozen0k · Post by **frozen0k** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:01 am

Yep, you're right about it, if any immortal people in the world, they will never tell anyone. Even if they will, they will be mocked and disregarded and considered crazy ... or worse, being taken to a secret lab.
There are a few legends about people who lived more than 200 years.
For example: http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/of ... d-man/1130

I'm amazed though that witches are down from time to time. Being down means to think about something that troubles you, without the possibility to take any action.
And thinking of "who am I to think I can do something none else have done" sounds to me like the voice of your ego whispering you're not good enough, you're not worthy.
Awareness without thinking, being totally in the moment, will make you soon realize that fear is just an illusion. As a witch you should be able to achieve that quite easy, since is just a simple switch from thinking to feeling.
After all, what is death? Only an idea in the mind, since the mind can not understand that there could be anything else without it, and that scares it the most.
As a child, the idea of death was terrifying me, thinking something like: "how can this be? i'm alive now and after death i will be no more? i cease to exists? just like that". That induced thought of non existence was scaring me the most, since it was impossible for me to reason it trough the mind.
Lately i'm being more and more in a state of: no past, no future ... only being me, here, now, feeling. From time to time thoughts pop up in my head, sometimes inducing the fear of death, but a simple switch of attention into my feelings is enough to make that disappear.
I can not tell what is the experience of death, but i can tell for sure that only the thinking mind is the one who fears death. If you focus on your inner field of energy, there's no such thing as death, is just an alert awareness which knows not death.

Post by **Venefica** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:32 am

You are right in much of your advice, but remember that no matter what we do, or what we practice occultists to are human, and with humanity comes emotions and doubts that might be detrimental or even silly. Off course one should try to control ones mind and eliminate doubts, but at times it is easier said than done.

I am quite sure there is life after death, that something live on. However that is not enough for me. I am a combination of mind, body and soul and I want that combination to survive, not just a part of it. Also for me the elimination of past and future do not work, being very aware of the now is great for rituals, however I am a practical person, it is not enough for me just to exist, I must also live and to live I must have a past to learn from and a future to dream about.

frozen0k · Post by **frozen0k** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:02 am

We try to understand something that is beyond the capacity of understanding of the human mind.
The mind is like the software of a computer, can analyze inputs and generate outputs according to it's initial programming. It can not go beyond that .
But the most beautiful thing is that it can be re-programmed, unfortunately most of us are unaware of that and thus we are prone to go with the default programming.
Anyway, my point here is that trying to understand with the mind things beyond its understanding is same as expecting a regular person to believe in magic. It is something they never experienced, and until they will,
they can only theorize about that idea. Just like writing 10 books about honey without ever tasting honey.
Therefor, my suggestion is: set up a goal from extending your life, but focus on your doings, not on the result, since the journey is the one that brings the joy, not the destination.
You will most likely succeed in your task, but remember, time is only in your mind (since is perceived differently in different situations), so is the quality of the journey, not its length which will make you happy.
Reducing every human desire to its basic ingredient, you'll find out that is the thrill of feeling alive what we're looking for, that makes us happy, even though we're deluded that we want something else.
After all, it is us who gives importance to anything that we do, and when we disregard small things we do in favor of "greater things", is just the delusion of the future, which promise a better quality and ignores the present.
As one said: "when you are enlightened, then every moment is the best moment", and you find pleasure and joy in everything that you do.
Pay attention to what you do and to your feelings, most of times is sufficient to change only the how you do, not what you do, to feel alive.
My second point here is that you desire the future, you want the outcome of extending the life at the expense of the present (which is the only real thing there is).
And that future is just an illusion that your mind holds for salvation. But ... there's no escape in the future.
As Bruce Lee said: "Well, here I am as a human being, how can I express myself totally and completely? Now, that way you won't create a style, because style is a crystallization. That way, it's a process of continuing growth. "

frozen0k · Post by **frozen0k** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:33 am

Venefica wrote:I must also live and to live I must have a past to learn from and a future to dream about

Mmmm, i used to think that way too, but from my current perspective i realized that to live you need nor a past neither a future.
You can make use of past experiences, no doubt, but you don't need the past. Regard it as information stored on a computer which you can access anytime you want just when you need it, since that's all that past is.
If you make a living reality out of your past, you lose the present and relive the past again and again.
As for future, as i previously said, set up goals and work your way towards them, but don't get obsessed with the result.
That's all that future is, an idea in your mind that you want to manifest as reality, nothing more, nothing less.
Once more, if you dream of the future more than needed, you again lose the present, and that future you dream of will never manifest as a living experience.
The mind loves to think either about the past or future because it got so used to it and because it gets a sort of identity out of it: who would you be without your past?
But is only an illusion and you are not even aware of it since this is your current reality.
Just think a little: before getting in contact with magic, what did your rational mind told you about it? What are your thoughts about magic now? Mind can't understand magic, it only knows that it works because you experienced it, and that's all.
Same goes with the present, the mind can not understand the present moment, you can only experience it trough practicing of being aware from moment to moment.

Post by **Venefica** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:57 am

Many regular pepole believe in magick, some who have experienced and some who have not. Our minds might be like that of a computer, but I think that computer is vastly more advanced than you give it credit for. I agree however that in any task it is the doing one should focus on not the result, once a focus on result get into it there will come doubts or nervousness on whatever or not one is doing it well enough, all one can do is do ones best and try to better oneself, and yet the goal still have to be firmly in place before one can begin any magick, before one can direct Energy one need to know where to direct it.

I do not however agree that every desire save feeling alive is deluding oneself, there is far much variety between pepole than that. In addition what makes one person feel alive do nothing for another, we are not machines who all want the same thing, we are individuals with individual needs and desires. While the ability to find joy and fulfillment in all things is both useful and a blessing, that do not mean sitting on one's butt, if you excuse the term, and being content is enough for every person. I think like I said we all have different needs, different desires, different paths to walk. I think it makes for a more happy person if one can stop and smell the roses along that path and enjoy the walk, however some pepole are naturally of a more questing nature, seeking that which they as of yet do not have, and mere contentedness will then not fulfill their life's purpose.

Now my past shaped me, made me into who I am, I would not be who I am in the present without my past, I am not saying one should not move on, seek new things, nor am I saying one should live in the past, but to now acknowledge the past is to not acknowledge a part of who you are, the events that shaped you into the person you are at this moment.

I have always been in contact with magick, I was two when I became a Transhumanist, and my mother being a healer I grew up with magick all around me, but off course my experience of it now is different from my experience of it when I was a child, or just a year ago, I am not the same person as I was a year ago so neither is my understanding, however I am who I am because my experiences have lead me to these changes therefore I say the past is no illusion, we learn as long as we exist, the past is the lessons we have already learned which have shaped us for lessons that is to come.

frozen0k · Post by **frozen0k** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:56 pm

I agree and yet disagree.
From the point of view regarding the knowledge and experiences (personality if you like), yes, you're not the same person as you were one year ago. Life is in a continuous flow and it forces us to get in different situations, to get new skills and so on.
From the point of view regarding the self, who you truly are, you are the same person as 20 years ago.
What you acquire along the journey is just shaping your sense of self, the way you perceive yourself through your eyes or through the eyes of other.
You are not who you are because of the experiences, the experiences just shape the sense of self, but at the very core of your being, you are the same as you been. Only forms have changed, your physical form, the environment, your thinking etc...
The only difference between a regular person and one who practice magic is that the last one knows how to do it, yet both of them have the potential to practice magic.
Same goes with the sense of self and enlightenment, the only true difference between an enlightened person and a regular person is that the enlightened one knows it's true nature and potential while the other doesn't even dream about it.
I'm not expecting for you to understand this since a year ago i couldn't understand that either and even now i can barely grasp it trough what i experience. Just as in magic and any other area of life, is all about practice and personal experience.

And for sure is not just about believing, is about making it a reality for you which leads to actually know it. Believing implies doubt, knowing leaves no room for doubt.
You can believe in magic as much as you want, you can read countless books about it and fantasize about it, but until you experience the actual reality of magic, it will be merely an idea in your mind, only a potential seed.
From my point of view believing is a miss concept; people need to believe in order to start to do something, they need to believe that it's possible, otherwise they will not even consider to set a goal in which they don't believe, even if it would be perfectly achievable.
But rather than believing, wouldn't it be far better to know what you are capable of? thus to know yourself and allow yourself to fully manifest in this physical form, without the limitations imposed by the programming of your mind.
I now realize that we don't actually improve ourselves, on the contrary, we get to discover ourselves and our potential. We already are who we are, we just don't know that and so, the self imposed limitations govern our lives.
We don't make ourselves better, we just learn how to better express ourselves.
This could be compared to the case when one tries to use a machine of which he knows little. The machine is there, it already has its full potential, only he doesn't know what it is capable of.

Does that make any sense to you? Whatever the answer is, then you still have to shape your sense of self.
And you can do that in every day action, without changing anything from what you do now, but merely by paying attention to all that you do and to what you feel about it. To know from moment to moment your inner state without criticizing or making mental commentaries about it. Just to be the aware without thinking. The more you practice, the more you realize who you truly are and the benefits are worthy. You can even make use of magic in this direction

You will be able to measure your progress by the degree of peace that you feel within. Just remember, this is not something you achieve, this is something you discover, so don't attach yourself to the result of self discovery.

Damn i wrote too much :p

Rayvenwulf · Post by **Rayvenwulf** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:53 am

Okay I'm not sure if i have the right to comment or not. I consider myself more of a spiritualist than anything, but I do know I have seen some weirdness in this life. And it seems interesting to me that people have thought immortality isn't real. There are a few documented cases of seeing a person centuries apart. But most would think that they are seeing a relative of the original. Which is feasible, I just like to believe that maybe there is more to it than that.

Post by **Belial** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:35 am

Your goal is one that is perfectly obtainable yet a fair bit more unpleasant than you may think.Immortality casts some fairly dark shadows but you could manage to extend your life span without resorting to such methods.As opposed to most common ways of thinking time is not relative.It has no actual effect on anything and exists only in perception.What brings death is the body being worn down until pushed beyond a functionable condition.Time does not make you look older.It's exposure to the elements and repeated use of your body.If you aim at using methods to reduce the effects of these forces working at wearing your body down you can in fact prolong your body's working condition.It has been done before and with varied levels of success.Doing so will in fact allow your body to function longer but even this has limitations.No matter how much you slow down the erosion it will eventually be worn down.

That brings us to the next aspect.This is where things begin to get unpleasant.I admit this seems to be stepping outside of the realm of magic but it is still an area regarded by many as taboo.If your entire body fails you at once you obviously cannot correct it as you would be unable to function it to accomplish any solutions you may have available.However in other aspects you can work to correct this carefully one piece at a time.A person's teeth are only good for so many miles.Eventually they will be worn away and damaged beyond repair.What does one do when they no longer possess teeth?Why naturally they find a replacement.This is all well and good but what happens when something more important fails?Why you find a suitable replacement for that as well.All parts of a living body can be replaced with suitable substitutes.Actually replacing them will certainly require you to have an accomplish that is very skilled.There is no part that you cannot replace.It is a machine and you are it's operator.Naturally this has extremely negative implications and is regarded with great disdain.This may sound like an awful mix of science and necromancy but that is what real necromancy is.It is the science of defiling death.Many modern medical practices were derived from older century necromantic studies.While most tend to disregard science and the supernatural as incompatible and unrelated they actually touch bases in some areas.Necromancy still stands shoulders above modern medical science due to it's lack of obligation to morality or ethics.Unfortunately the areas of necromantic studies rarely get to congregate and tend to be far less structured a community than medical practitioners.This is thanks to the overwhelming stigma necromancy carries with it.Any who practice it will have attempts made on their lives.It's a secret that can only be concealed for just so long.In necromancy being exposed means almost certain death.

Necromancy brings more solutions to the table than simply the methods outlined in my previous paragraph.Necromancy has also derived methods of prolonging and overriding the normal processes required to make one's body function.To bypass these processes means that one would be able to sustain structural damages that would otherwise cut off those processes rendering the body non functioning and still be operational.The crucial point of this practice is that one would later repair said damages.When it comes to cheating death there is no better art than necromancy.There is nothing pretty about the art and nothing pleasant to be found within it.

Moving down the line there are even more sinister and effective methods than even necromancy.You would have to be exceedingly self centered and lacking of any traces of humanity or guilt to perform such rituals though.Any who walk that path can truly be considered monsters.I sincerely hope to never find you on this path.Should you ever find yourself tempted to set foot upon a path as dark as this one ask yourself beforehand if you feel it worth it to give yourself eternal existence if you lose yourself in the process.I can condone necromancy , acts of vengeance , even unprovoked acts of violence and destruction.This one art however is one I cannot justify or condone.It violates too much to be acceptable even by my standards.If you seek this path , you are on your own , and should you go through with it you shall always be so.

When it comes down to it your options are reduced to that which involve slowing the decay of your form as long as possible or stealing your life from others.You can only slow it for so long before it crashes but then again you cannot rob forever without being caught either.The path to immortality is not a pleasant one and you cannot walk it unscathed.Buying immortality will cost you part of yourself.You can cheat death , you can even subjugate it.Ultimately though all things come at a price.How much you are willing to pay is up to you.

alex nero · Post by **alex nero** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:15 am

I don't believe any physical life form can be immortal,perhaps have a long life-span,but not be immortal.Now on a non-physical sense,perhaps immortality exists.I know Satan was not born and will never die,but is that the definition of immortal? Would you really want to live forever? Having seen it all and lived it all,what would be left? With no surprises and no end,it might be torture.

Post by **Belial** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:01 am

Nero has a point but what I was outlining is there are certain unpleasant ways to cheat the system.Nothing's free though , you pay for it in the end.

Immortal is a term I shy away from because even that which will not die from age can still be killed by other means even if it is not a physical being as it most likely isn't.

That being said which Satan do you refer to Nero?Don't just give the metaphorical answer either.

frozen0k · Post by **frozen0k** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:46 am

alex nero wrote:I don't believe any physical life form can be immortal,perhaps have a long life-span,but not be immortal.Now on a non-physical sense,perhaps immortality exists.I know Satan was not born and will never die,but is that the definition of immortal? Would you really want to live forever? Having seen it all and lived it all,what would be left? With no surprises and no end,it might be torture.

why not wanting to live forever? you got bored already with living? For the thinking mind, immortality is indeed a torture.
In fact, human beings are so incredible leading themselves to self destruction that one would be amazed. The thinking mind is never satisfied with the present situations and always want either the past or the imagined future. When people are children they are eager to grow up to do teenagers things, when they are teenagers they are eager to grow to be able to do adult things ... and when they are adults they want to go back to childhood ... lool. They don't want immortality because it scares them and yet, they don't want to die either, because they're afraid as well. Don't we have a beautiful antagonistic mind?
In such conditions, when you always expect the future, of course immortality is a torture. Eventually you will get bored and will want to die, eager to see what's beyond this life. Such a pitiful condition when one is constantly living in a psychological time stream.
Break that barrier, start to live in the present moment and then you'll realize that being bored, being stressed or being depressed are coming only from the thinking mind. Once in the present moment, being mortal or immortal is irrelevant, you no longer get attached to the end results.

Post by **Belial** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:15 pm

Any can conquer time for such a thing lives only in perception.It's the erosion of space you must withstand to last forever.The issue is , even if your body can last forever , can your will?

Alice Milton · Post by **Alice Milton** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:21 pm

Disclaimer<<<Im Pretty intoxicated right now>>>

Yes i do believe there are some lifeforms who are like a Volkswagen, who go on and on and on and on and on and on and on....

i mean its not in the realm of scientific imposibilities. So why not. How this "go on ing" might functions might be beyond our scope of what is live or not, but certainly the result is the same.

I have some therories but i aint gonna share hehe^^

wraith · Post by **wraith** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:28 pm

Belial wrote:Any can conquer time for such a thing lives only in perception.It's the erosion of space you must withstand to last forever.The issue is , even if your body can last forever , can your will?

forever is such a long time,i'd start with a few centuries and see then
i find it harder to watch my body decay than to wonder about my will

wraith · Post by **wraith** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:36 pm

Belial wrote:Your goal is one that is perfectly obtainable yet a fair bit more unpleasant than you may think.Immortality casts some fairly dark shadows but you could manage to extend your life span without resorting to such methods.As opposed to most common ways of thinking time is not relative.It has no actual effect on anything and exists only in perception.What brings death is the body being worn down until pushed beyond a functionable condition.Time does not make you look older.It's exposure to the elements and repeated use of your body.If you aim at using methods to reduce the effects of these forces working at wearing your body down you can in fact prolong your body's working condition.It has been done before and with varied levels of success.Doing so will in fact allow your body to function longer but even this has limitations.No matter how much you slow down the erosion it will eventually be worn down.

That brings us to the next aspect.This is where things begin to get unpleasant.I admit this seems to be stepping outside of the realm of magic but it is still an area regarded by many as taboo.If your entire body fails you at once you obviously cannot correct it as you would be unable to function it to accomplish any solutions you may have available.However in other aspects you can work to correct this carefully one piece at a time.A person's teeth are only good for so many miles.Eventually they will be worn away and damaged beyond repair.What does one do when they no longer possess teeth?Why naturally they find a replacement.This is all well and good but what happens when something more important fails?Why you find a suitable replacement for that as well.All parts of a living body can be replaced with suitable substitutes.Actually replacing them will certainly require you to have an accomplish that is very skilled.There is no part that you cannot replace.It is a machine and you are it's operator.Naturally this has extremely negative implications and is regarded with great disdain.This may sound like an awful mix of science and necromancy but that is what real necromancy is.It is the science of defiling death.Many modern medical practices were derived from older century necromantic studies.While most tend to disregard science and the supernatural as incompatible and unrelated they actually touch bases in some areas.Necromancy still stands shoulders above modern medical science due to it's lack of obligation to morality or ethics.Unfortunately the areas of necromantic studies rarely get to congregate and tend to be far less structured a community than medical practitioners.This is thanks to the overwhelming stigma necromancy carries with it.Any who practice it will have attempts made on their lives.It's a secret that can only be concealed for just so long.In necromancy being exposed means almost certain death.

Necromancy brings more solutions to the table than simply the methods outlined in my previous paragraph.Necromancy has also derived methods of prolonging and overriding the normal processes required to make one's body function.To bypass these processes means that one would be able to sustain structural damages that would otherwise cut off those processes rendering the body non functioning and still be operational.The crucial point of this practice is that one would later repair said damages.When it comes to cheating death there is no better art than necromancy.There is nothing pretty about the art and nothing pleasant to be found within it.

Moving down the line there are even more sinister and effective methods than even necromancy.You would have to be exceedingly self centered and lacking of any traces of humanity or guilt to perform such rituals though.Any who walk that path can truly be considered monsters.I sincerely hope to never find you on this path.Should you ever find yourself tempted to set foot upon a path as dark as this one ask yourself beforehand if you feel it worth it to give yourself eternal existence if you lose yourself in the process.I can condone necromancy , acts of vengeance , even unprovoked acts of violence and destruction.This one art however is one I cannot justify or condone.It violates too much to be acceptable even by my standards.If you seek this path , you are on your own , and should you go through with it you shall always be so.

When it comes down to it your options are reduced to that which involve slowing the decay of your form as long as possible or stealing your life from others.You can only slow it for so long before it crashes but then again you cannot rob forever without being caught either.The path to immortality is not a pleasant one and you cannot walk it unscathed.Buying immortality will cost you part of yourself.You can cheat death , you can even subjugate it.Ultimately though all things come at a price.How much you are willing to pay is up to you.

What about reversing the process ? I saw that some british scientist managed to extend the life span of some worms 4 times by manipulating some genes [geek2]

Another option would be to steal the body of somebodyelse...if possible

aoz · Post by **aoz** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:55 pm

There may be people who have, can, and will live for a ridiculously long time........but does anyone truly think immortality is possible? Can any human out there survive a point blank shotgun blast to the cerebral cortex?

zard · Post by **zard** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:24 am

Yes, I am an immortal written of in books before I was supposedly born doing work that will span at least another thousand years. You, and others here it appears, have the wrong idea about what it is to be immortal. I am presently doing a website on the subject along with the 3D presentation of Achad's concept. You think of immortal as a continuation of all aspects of yourself that are mortal. Nope.

Gaeus · Post by **Gaeus** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:56 am

Where is your birth certificate Mr. Immortal? Summon a demon and ask him. Demons have all the answers lol. It's just a matter of how you get the information from them :/. Not to mention, the demon I dealt with was untrustworthy to say the least. Yeah it's certainly possible. Many ways to achieve it I'd imagine. From the philosophers stone to ritual energy gathering and harmonizing. Maybe even a little demonic pact and some murderous human sacrifices. Of course in the skeleton key, some slaves essentially achieved immortality by body hoping with voodoo. Many Many ways, both benevolently and malevolently. This I'd also coming from a guy that wants to learn how to cast fireballs and learn telekinesis lol.

Gaeus · Post by **Gaeus** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:03 am

Sorry for my abrasiveness Zard, but I'm not a fan of past lives, even though I know they exist. Yeah many teachings the world over speak of reincarnation but let me be frank, it's all hippy talk that doesn't help people that want to remember all their time on earth. Honestly, how many times in your past lives, did you know about your past lives? Your memories shape your personality, and even if it's the same soul, you could be totally different people from your last life.

Jack-o-diamonds · Post by **Jack-o-diamonds** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:50 pm

back to the original point... i personally think it's totally possible that there are immortal people out there. why the hell not? aging is just a disease anyway. but like someone previously said... does that mean if you get impaled by truck that you will live? would you WANT to live if you get impaled by a truck? what if a chimp tears off your face or someone who snorted too many bath salts eats most of your head? and you have to go the rest of your immortal life with no face, waiting for someone to create the technology to give you a face transplant at a cheaper price? would you want to live with someone else's face? or say that you actually are unable to be physically harmed (because lets face it, the odds of you getting permanently disfigured with an IMMORTAL life are like 98%), what happens when the sun starts to get too close to the earth and all the water dries up (if life is still even happening by then, because that's what is gonna happen), so you have no water, no food, no life around you, it's getting hotter because the sun is like RIGHT there, and then what happens when the sun finally does destroy the earth? will you just float out in space? do you need O2?

i'm not trolling, i'm bringing up these things because you say you are a practical thinker but i don't think you are thinking practically enough. everything has to end and even the immortal people who might be walking around on earth will have to END at some point. and it's good that they will, too, because death is important for the survival of others. and not to mention, for the above reasons i gave, if all the physical things don't kill them they will pray to whatever god they will to finally take their sad excuse for a life when they are floating around in space twiddling their thumbs.

i think your strong desire to live forever is beautiful.

but i'll throw in my other two cents because... i do that. ignore it if you want because i'm sure other people have said the exact same thing.

living for a tiny fraction of a moment in the vast history of this or all the universes is also beautiful. being a small blip, a total accident (depending on your views), that somehow formed and deteriorated is a miracle. the cecropia moth when it is no longer a caterpillar lives for only two weeks where it does nothing, doesn't even eat because it has no mouth, but spends all of its short life looking to find a mate and then it falls to the dirt and dies, that is beautiful.

i am not telling you to change your views of immortality, i just think it would be beneficial for you to think it out a little more thoroughly. immortality in the physical sense is still impermanent, ending is a byproduct of beginning.

Daegon · Post by **Daegon** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:41 pm

Personally, I think we are already immortal. We are not our bodies, we are not the car we drive, we are not our bowel cancer (Fight Club, couldn't help it). This shell will pass and transmute into myraid other forms as all things do, but our self continues. We find new mediums through which to experience and interact with the rest of creation, and why would anyone want to be bound to one body for all eternity? It seems far too limiting to me, but again, this is my personal view and I certainly don't object to anyone thinking differently on the matter.
I admit that I myself am afraid of death, but only because I am culturally conditioned to be so. I have been dead in a dream, it was terrifying, sad, and cathartic all at once. I can only hope that when my time comes, I can accept it without regret or fear and move forward into whatever comes next.

Evander · Post by **Evander** » Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:39 pm

Amorte Belial!

Belial wrote: That brings us to the next aspect.This is where things begin to get unpleasant.I admit this seems to be stepping outside of the realm of magic but it is still an area regarded by many as taboo.If your entire body fails you at once you obviously cannot correct it as you would be unable to function it to accomplish any solutions you may have available.However in other aspects you can work to correct this carefully one piece at a time.A person's teeth are only good for so many miles.Eventually they will be worn away and damaged beyond repair.What does one do when they no longer possess teeth?Why naturally they find a replacement.This is all well and good but what happens when something more important fails?Why you find a suitable replacement for that as well.All parts of a living body can be replaced with suitable substitutes.Actually replacing them will certainly require you to have an accomplish that is very skilled.There is no part that you cannot replace.It is a machine and you are it's operator.Naturally this has extremely negative implications and is regarded with great disdain.This may sound like an awful mix of science and necromancy but that is what real necromancy is.It is the science of defiling death.Many modern medical practices were derived from older century necromantic studies.While most tend to disregard science and the supernatural as incompatible and unrelated they actually touch bases in some areas.Necromancy still stands shoulders above modern medical science due to it's lack of obligation to morality or ethics.Unfortunately the areas of necromantic studies rarely get to congregate and tend to be far less structured a community than medical practitioners.This is thanks to the overwhelming stigma necromancy carries with it.Any who practice it will have attempts made on their lives.It's a secret that can only be concealed for just so long.In necromancy being exposed means almost certain death.

Necromancy brings more solutions to the table than simply the methods outlined in my previous paragraph.Necromancy has also derived methods of prolonging and overriding the normal processes required to make one's body function.To bypass these processes means that one would be able to sustain structural damages that would otherwise cut off those processes rendering the body non functioning and still be operational.The crucial point of this practice is that one would later repair said damages.When it comes to cheating death there is no better art than necromancy.There is nothing pretty about the art and nothing pleasant to be found within it.

Moving down the line there are even more sinister and effective methods than even necromancy.You would have to be exceedingly self centered and lacking of any traces of humanity or guilt to perform such rituals though.Any who walk that path can truly be considered monsters.I sincerely hope to never find you on this path.Should you ever find yourself tempted to set foot upon a path as dark as this one ask yourself beforehand if you feel it worth it to give yourself eternal existence if you lose yourself in the process.I can condone necromancy , acts of vengeance , even unprovoked acts of violence and destruction.This one art however is one I cannot justify or condone.It violates too much to be acceptable even by my standards.If you seek this path , you are on your own , and should you go through with it you shall always be so.

When it comes down to it your options are reduced to that which involve slowing the decay of your form as long as possible or stealing your life from others.You can only slow it for so long before it crashes but then again you cannot rob forever without being caught either.The path to immortality is not a pleasant one and you cannot walk it unscathed.Buying immortality will cost you part of yourself.You can cheat death , you can even subjugate it.Ultimately though all things come at a price.How much you are willing to pay is up to you.

I like the way you think, even tho parts of it look like some rpg fantasy necromancy to me, I still like that idea.

But tell me something. Cannot we go further and directly combine necromantic and scientific knowledge?

There are these cells in human body. They are named 'stem cells'. They have this incredible ability, that they do not really age and they can replicate and differentiate in every type of the cell in your body.

Instead of replacing your damaged organs or feeding upon life force of another, wouldn't it be more prudent to attain control of these cells and force them to reproduce in high numbers, repair and replace damaged bits before they fail completely? Wouldn't it be better to just grown immortality from those tiny seeds we already posses?

Regards,

Ramscha · Post by **Ramscha** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:47 am

force them to reproduce in high numbers

That is called cancer.
Biological and medical research is already on this topic, problem is to take control over those cells, since cell physiology is a rather complicated topic, to say the least.

Ramscha

Asurendra · Post by **Asurendra** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:09 am

The physical world: no.

But, the key is to avoid the Second Death on the Astral Plane. This is what they are talking about when they refer to immortality.

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