Can Occult be as Solid as Science?
Can Occult be as Solid as Science?
Well, I dont know how to put this but in order to start from somewhere I am going to tell you the whole problem. I am a dreamer. I mean you know, I love dreaming a lot about anything but especially Occult and Fantasy related issues. So when I first came across with the subject of Occult It really seemed cool to me and I had a desire to study it. And I wanted to be someone like King Solomon or Aleister Crowley. But thesedays I cant see the point in Occult. For example the facts that Science puts forward are as solid as rock and these facts are the cornerstones of reality. Occult on the other hand Occult is more like symbolism and not solid. And so the issues mentioned in Occult doesnt go beyond symbolism and metaphors. So, this doesnt make me pleased becouse I dont think Occult is more then a philosophical view anymore. What is the diffrance between Occult and Philosophy? They both cant go beyond thought and arguments that are not facts but views. So If occult doesnt grant you something special then looking to life diffrently then why it is not part of Philosphy? You guys talk about astral projections, Demon possessions, healing methods etc. but well how can people here believe each other since we all are guys from internet?
There is no Lucifer to folow, no God to obey
There is no Hell for punishment, no Heaven for reward
There are no Demons to fear, no Angels to listen
There is you and your fate
Wake up Alice
You are in Truthland.
There is no Hell for punishment, no Heaven for reward
There are no Demons to fear, no Angels to listen
There is you and your fate
Wake up Alice
You are in Truthland.
Re: Can Occult be as Solid as Science?
That depends, for practitioners, it's easy, because they already have experience and so they know there's at least some level of reality to these matters. Of course it's still the internet, so they can't take everything at face value (or they wouldn't be very good practitioners), but they can evaluate what someone is saying and how they're saying it and what else they've said and come to their own conclusion.You guys talk about astral projections, Demon possessions, healing methods etc. but well how can people here believe each other since we all are guys from internet?
For non-practitioners, or people just discovering the occult - well, you don't, generally. You can do the same as those who do have personal experience, but it's difficult, and you're having to take a leap of faith.
You're right, nothing can be proven on the internet - but nobody is here to prove anything to you. Believe it or not, forums about the occult don't exist to prove to people new to the subject that it is a real and valid phenomenon, they exist for people who already understand this to discuss the subject among themselves.
This is why I always advocate finding a personal teacher, or at least practicing a decent routine with an open mind for a year or two, to people who are having doubts about these matters. But that takes effort, and time, and the risk of putting yourself out there, and most people aren't willing to do that. They want proof now. But sadly that isn't going to happen. You either have to screw up at least enough courage and discipline to give it a serious shot yourself (and then you have your own experiences by which you can evaluate what other people say), or resign yourself to the illusion of materialism which engulfs modern society. It's up to you.
"The path of the Sage is called
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"
- DDJ, Verse 27
"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"
- DDJ, Verse 27
"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett
- manonthepath
- Benefactor
- Posts: 630
- Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 4:36 pm
Re: Can Occult be as Solid as Science?
Science is only solid when dealing with matter. Quantum physics and other disciplines do deal with energy, but don't understand the nature of energy. They are only able to observe behavioral manifestations of energy such as electrical dynamics and stuff like that. Metaphysics is just that META-physics. Beyond physics. There is a line between so called science and magick. Scientific data can be measured or "quantified." Matter can be quantified and qualified. energy can't be handled so simply. The more subtle and elusive the energy, the less hard measurable or "quantifiable" data can be gathered and agreed upon and shared by scientists, so they exclude it from their work. so the answer to your question is that at present it can't be as "Solid" as science as measured by the tools used by science due to the limitations of those tools. Science works only in relation to applications of Newtonian theories and concepts of physics. Beyond that it breaks down. an example of this is when mathematicians attempt to compute the gravitational force or vortex dynamics of a black hole. Math itself breaks down at a certain point in the equation. Now from my personal experience metaphysics is every bit as "solid" as anything else. Perhaps even more because it has no limitations except in the mind of man.
Re: Can Occult be as Solid as Science?
Well you say even science breaks down at some point but you forget something, Science always makes progress but issues like Phliosophy and Occult always clusters since knowledge about these issues are not facts but point of views. Even if Science breaks down at some point someone will solve the problem and science will continue to progress. But Religion, Occult and Philosophy will stay as the same. Knowledge of Occult today has no difference with the 100 year ago and will never progress.
There is no Lucifer to folow, no God to obey
There is no Hell for punishment, no Heaven for reward
There are no Demons to fear, no Angels to listen
There is you and your fate
Wake up Alice
You are in Truthland.
There is no Hell for punishment, no Heaven for reward
There are no Demons to fear, no Angels to listen
There is you and your fate
Wake up Alice
You are in Truthland.
Re: Can Occult be as Solid as Science?
You forget that 100 years is in historical sense even less then the blink of an eye. It is nothing. Religion and Philosophy developed as well and so did occultism.Atzmuth wrote:Well you say even science breaks down at some point but you forget something, Science always makes progress but issues like Phliosophy and Occult always clusters since knowledge about these issues are not facts but point of views. Even if Science breaks down at some point someone will solve the problem and science will continue to progress. But Religion, Occult and Philosophy will stay as the same. Knowledge of Occult today has no difference with the 100 year ago and will never progress.
From Rene Descartes to Ludwig Feuerbach is progress, from Aristoteles to Einstein is progress, from Echnaton to Pope Benedict the XVI is progress, from Paracelsus to Crowley is progress.
Please take your history lessons before you blurt!
Of course progress does not mean that it is necessarily better. The saying "never touch a running system" has its reasons. I think this especially applies for religion (just my humble opinion) but that does not mean that it does not develope. And don't fortget that there are times when development sprints forward like it now happens in science and there are times when it stagnates (like the crash when the roman empire collapsed).
Ramscha
bye bye
Re: Can Occult be as Solid as Science?
By using the word "progress" I meant getting better. But still you prooved my point. As I said it wont get any "better" it will just clustrate with new ideas and thats all. By the way I couldnt get the connection between Paracelsus and Crowley?
There is no Lucifer to folow, no God to obey
There is no Hell for punishment, no Heaven for reward
There are no Demons to fear, no Angels to listen
There is you and your fate
Wake up Alice
You are in Truthland.
There is no Hell for punishment, no Heaven for reward
There are no Demons to fear, no Angels to listen
There is you and your fate
Wake up Alice
You are in Truthland.
Re: Can Occult be as Solid as Science?
Then please define what you mean by "better" in the context of philosophy, religion and occultism!
Regarding Paracelsus:That was my occult analogy, Paracelsus also had an impact on the occult schools.
Happy you that got the others.
Regarding Paracelsus:That was my occult analogy, Paracelsus also had an impact on the occult schools.
Happy you that got the others.
bye bye
- manonthepath
- Benefactor
- Posts: 630
- Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 4:36 pm
Re: Can Occult be as Solid as Science?
How do you know occult matters "cluster?' What do you mean by the use of this term? It has many interpretations depending on the context. To cluster generally means to bunch together. One of the main principles behind many occult disciplines is that the cosmos is a living, changing Dynamic. I have forgotten nothing and wasn't seeking to argue any points. I was just trying to help you, not debate with you. But if you'd like to debate, let's begin with your assumption that occult matters are subject to "clustering. Please be specific and detailed in your terminology and when building the evidence for your arguments. Let's hear a cogent argument to support your point. A second challenge is regarding your belief that someone will always come along to solve an issue. Explain your hypothesis with regard to the failure of mathematics to solve computations of black holes specifically since that was the point I used to illustrate my argument. I look forward to a bit of intellectual play with you....if you're up to it. [yay]Atzmuth wrote:Well you say even science breaks down at some point but you forget something, Science always makes progress but issues like Phliosophy and Occult always clusters since knowledge about these issues are not facts but point of views. Even if Science breaks down at some point someone will solve the problem and science will continue to progress. But Religion, Occult and Philosophy will stay as the same. Knowledge of Occult today has no difference with the 100 year ago and will never progress.
Re: Can Occult be as Solid as Science?
So let the Games Begin [eg]
There is no Lucifer to folow, no God to obey
There is no Hell for punishment, no Heaven for reward
There are no Demons to fear, no Angels to listen
There is you and your fate
Wake up Alice
You are in Truthland.
There is no Hell for punishment, no Heaven for reward
There are no Demons to fear, no Angels to listen
There is you and your fate
Wake up Alice
You are in Truthland.
- manonthepath
- Benefactor
- Posts: 630
- Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 4:36 pm
Re: Can Occult be as Solid as Science?
So I sense a bit rage I guess. And not to make you angry I will put this clearly.
In my point of view Occult is like a river with a waterfall. So lets think the water in the river is the Knowledge of Occult. So as long as the water flows nothing will change about the river and the water will fall from the waterfall and ultimately will clustrate(Accumulate). And thats all.
So what I am trying to mean in this methaphor is that even if new point of views come to Occult it wont change anything becouse subjects in Occult wont change. Becouse like philosophy Occult cant also go beyond methaphors and symbolism. And there are no such facts or rules as there are in science. Occult is cumulative like Philospohy but Science on the other hand is Progressive. So I dont think Occult will ever be as solid as Science. Since Occult is stuck in the past while Science goes beyond future. Let me also clerify this. Lets think a guy studies occult in the year 1900. Then lets take this guy and with time travel move his to 2014. I dont think he will be suprised with what he will see. Since the Occult studies the knowledge of the hidden and old magical practises. Which casuses Occult to go round and round in the past. For example there are books witten in the year of 1950 about kabbalah and book written about Kabbalah in the year of 2014. Would there be any changes in the practises of these books? Of couse no. But lets take a book about Medical studies written in 1950 and compare it to the Medical book written in 2014. Would we see a diffrenence? We would see a lot. So it is why Occult cumuliates and gets stuck in the past while Science keeps getting better.
By the way I watched the video and I really didnt Understand what did you wanted to proove with that?... If Einstein's theory was non-sense why do people recoginze him as the father of physics rather then seeing him as a mad man? And what is the wrong with infinitivity??? It is a fact that space gets larger everyday to infinitvity so why cant the black holes? And believe me if a plumber(Einstein) couldnt fully fix the problem, a better one will permanently finish the job.
Your Move Mein Freund [cool]
In my point of view Occult is like a river with a waterfall. So lets think the water in the river is the Knowledge of Occult. So as long as the water flows nothing will change about the river and the water will fall from the waterfall and ultimately will clustrate(Accumulate). And thats all.
So what I am trying to mean in this methaphor is that even if new point of views come to Occult it wont change anything becouse subjects in Occult wont change. Becouse like philosophy Occult cant also go beyond methaphors and symbolism. And there are no such facts or rules as there are in science. Occult is cumulative like Philospohy but Science on the other hand is Progressive. So I dont think Occult will ever be as solid as Science. Since Occult is stuck in the past while Science goes beyond future. Let me also clerify this. Lets think a guy studies occult in the year 1900. Then lets take this guy and with time travel move his to 2014. I dont think he will be suprised with what he will see. Since the Occult studies the knowledge of the hidden and old magical practises. Which casuses Occult to go round and round in the past. For example there are books witten in the year of 1950 about kabbalah and book written about Kabbalah in the year of 2014. Would there be any changes in the practises of these books? Of couse no. But lets take a book about Medical studies written in 1950 and compare it to the Medical book written in 2014. Would we see a diffrenence? We would see a lot. So it is why Occult cumuliates and gets stuck in the past while Science keeps getting better.
By the way I watched the video and I really didnt Understand what did you wanted to proove with that?... If Einstein's theory was non-sense why do people recoginze him as the father of physics rather then seeing him as a mad man? And what is the wrong with infinitivity??? It is a fact that space gets larger everyday to infinitvity so why cant the black holes? And believe me if a plumber(Einstein) couldnt fully fix the problem, a better one will permanently finish the job.
Your Move Mein Freund [cool]
There is no Lucifer to folow, no God to obey
There is no Hell for punishment, no Heaven for reward
There are no Demons to fear, no Angels to listen
There is you and your fate
Wake up Alice
You are in Truthland.
There is no Hell for punishment, no Heaven for reward
There are no Demons to fear, no Angels to listen
There is you and your fate
Wake up Alice
You are in Truthland.
- manonthepath
- Benefactor
- Posts: 630
- Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 4:36 pm
Re: Can Occult be as Solid as Science?
Atzmuth wrote:So I sense a bit rage I guess. And not to make you angry I will put this clearly.
In my point of view Occult is like a river with a waterfall. So lets think the water in the river is the Knowledge of Occult. So as long as the water flows nothing will change about the river and the water will fall from the waterfall and ultimately will clustrate(Accumulate). And thats all.
So what I am trying to mean in this methaphor is that even if new point of views come to Occult it wont change anything becouse subjects in Occult wont change. Becouse like philosophy Occult cant also go beyond methaphors and symbolism. And there are no such facts or rules as there are in science. Occult is cumulative like Philospohy but Science on the other hand is Progressive. So I dont think Occult will ever be as solid as Science. Since Occult is stuck in the past while Science goes beyond future. Let me also clerify this. Lets think a guy studies occult in the year 1900. Then lets take this guy and with time travel move his to 2014. I dont think he will be suprised with what he will see. Since the Occult studies the knowledge of the hidden and old magical practises. Which casuses Occult to go round and round in the past. For example there are books witten in the year of 1950 about kabbalah and book written about Kabbalah in the year of 2014. Would there be any changes in the practises of these books? Of couse no. But lets take a book about Medical studies written in 1950 and compare it to the Medical book written in 2014. Would we see a diffrenence? We would see a lot. So it is why Occult cumuliates and gets stuck in the past while Science keeps getting better.
By the way I watched the video and I really didnt Understand what did you wanted to proove with that?... If Einstein's theory was non-sense why do people recoginze him as the father of physics rather then seeing him as a mad man? And what is the wrong with infinitivity??? It is a fact that space gets larger everyday to infinitvity so why cant the black holes? And believe me if a plumber(Einstein) couldnt fully fix the problem, a better one will permanently finish the job.
Your Move Mein Freund [cool]
- manonthepath
- Benefactor
- Posts: 630
- Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 4:36 pm
Re: Can Occult be as Solid as Science?
It is common knowledge that rivers change their course as a natural phenomenon. It just takes time. Even when waterways become obstructed they change their course to continue to flow at a rate resulting from variables such as gravity related elevation gradients, aquifer depth and size, barometric pressure, humidity, temperature, wind speed and direction, and the list goes on. I disagree that subjects in the occult don't change. All variables are subject to change resulting as a reaction to stimuli. Occult matters have changed a great deal over the centuries as illustrated by the differences in the literature across cultures and the ages. Variables such as inter-cultural communication, the nature of communication itself, and the ever changing consciousness of the human dynamic all influence the areas of the occult which are ignored or explored. Science also influences the occult. So, your argument that the occult is not subject to the same charismatic dynamics as science and is not progressive are not cogent as illustrated by your poorly conceived and constructed metaphors. Perhaps you might want to ponder your position more deeply and give it another tryAtzmuth wrote:So I sense a bit rage I guess. And not to make you angry I will put this clearly.
In my point of view Occult is like a river with a waterfall. So lets think the water in the river is the Knowledge of Occult. So as long as the water flows nothing will change about the river and the water will fall from the waterfall and ultimately will clustrate(Accumulate). And thats all.
So what I am trying to mean in this methaphor is that even if new point of views come to Occult it wont change anything becouse subjects in Occult wont change. Becouse like philosophy Occult cant also go beyond methaphors and symbolism. And there are no such facts or rules as there are in science. Occult is cumulative like Philospohy but Science on the other hand is Progressive. So I dont think Occult will ever be as solid as Science. Since Occult is stuck in the past while Science goes beyond future. Let me also clerify this. Lets think a guy studies occult in the year 1900. Then lets take this guy and with time travel move his to 2014. I dont think he will be suprised with what he will see. Since the Occult studies the knowledge of the hidden and old magical practises. Which casuses Occult to go round and round in the past. For example there are books witten in the year of 1950 about kabbalah and book written about Kabbalah in the year of 2014. Would there be any changes in the practises of these books? Of couse no. But lets take a book about Medical studies written in 1950 and compare it to the Medical book written in 2014. Would we see a diffrenence? We would see a lot. So it is why Occult cumuliates and gets stuck in the past while Science keeps getting better.
By the way I watched the video and I really didnt Understand what did you wanted to proove with that?... If Einstein's theory was non-sense why do people recoginze him as the father of physics rather then seeing him as a mad man? And what is the wrong with infinitivity??? It is a fact that space gets larger everyday to infinitvity so why cant the black holes? And believe me if a plumber(Einstein) couldnt fully fix the problem, a better one will permanently finish the job.
Your Move Mein Freund [cool]
Your second point that the occult can never be as "solid" as science also has flaws. I challenge the "solidity" of science as you put it. Science has always been influenced by the same variables as the occult , and in fact, all aspects of human knowledge as explained by cognitive processes. Scientific research has always been governed by cultural and socio-economic trends. Cancer research is an example. Although there is evidence that cures for cancer have existed for centuries, science refuses to include many natural remedies in their experimentations and, in fact, has ignored many. Scientists will not make themselves unemployed, at least the ones subject to normal human fears regarding unemployment for themselves and for fear of destabilizing the economy. DNA research and cloning are other examples of religious and cultural interference impacting the "solidity" of science. How many unpopular projects have gone unfunded and areas unexplored because of the above mentioned variables? I submit to you the video I've posted earlier, which you state clearly you don't understand. It comes from MIT and states that there are fundamental flaws in the scientific methods put forth by both Newton and Einstein, which they assert are clearly limited and only explain a fraction of what is going on in the cosmic dynamic. Even though you couldn't comprehend the point the video was trying to make or how it fits into my arguments, you challenge its validity with the silly assertion that people look up to Einstein and this is why his theories are profound. People looked up to Hitler and Jim Jones as well. When you assert that someone will come along to fix the black hole issue you sound like someone awaiting some messiah. Isn't that just as much based on faith as anything in the occult? Not so solid as you thought huh? All in all I really expected more of a challenge. You disappoint me.
Your comment that you sensed rage is pretty silly too my friend. To be enraged I would have to have a significant attachment to our interaction, which I don't. I'm just playing cognitive games with you for the fun of it. [lol]
Re: Can Occult be as Solid as Science?
My friend you know that the river was a metaphor and has no relation with the natural phenomenon. And everyone knows(I dont think you know it since your anti thesis about my statement is fully irrevelant.) that metaphors are to consolidate and to illustrate the statments and metaphors have no relation with natural phenomenons or etc. And My statement and answers are more deeper and intellectual then yours. Becouse you just try to change the focus of the topic by irrevelant statments and answers. You just keep repeting what you have said I hope you realize it. By the way I am not trying to cocky but you know... [cool2]It is common knowledge that rivers change their course as a natural phenomenon. It just takes time. Even when waterways become obstructed they change their course to continue to flow at a rate resulting from variables such as gravity related elevation gradients, aquifer depth and size, barometric pressure, humidity, temperature, wind speed and direction, and the list goes on.
There is no Lucifer to folow, no God to obey
There is no Hell for punishment, no Heaven for reward
There are no Demons to fear, no Angels to listen
There is you and your fate
Wake up Alice
You are in Truthland.
There is no Hell for punishment, no Heaven for reward
There are no Demons to fear, no Angels to listen
There is you and your fate
Wake up Alice
You are in Truthland.
- Nahemah
- Forum Member
- Posts: 5077
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:49 pm
- Location: Sunny Glasgow by the Clutha's side
Re: Can Occult be as Solid as Science?
Define Science,then define solid and for the purposes of this particular conversation,then again define the term 'solid science'.
Only then we can have a constructive discussion. [thumbup]
Only then we can have a constructive discussion. [thumbup]
"He lived his words, spoke his own actions and his story and the story of the world ran parallel."
Sartre speaking of Che Guevara.
Sartre speaking of Che Guevara.
- manonthepath
- Benefactor
- Posts: 630
- Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 4:36 pm
Re: Can Occult be as Solid as Science?
This is an excellent idea. Let's begin at the beginning.Nahemah wrote:Define Science,then define solid and for the purposes of this particular conversation,then again define the term 'solid science'.
Only then we can have a constructive discussion. [thumbup]
- EternalReturn
- Forum Member
- Posts: 536
- Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:12 pm
Re: Can Occult be as Solid as Science?
Okay you could define Science, but to define it's solidity...it depends on your perspective and to what sciences are you referring to.
If you mean medicine, that shit's solid. Physics? Most of it. But sociology, pedagogy, and other humanies? For god's sakes no
What's the difference? Deductive and inductive reasoning. Deductive can be explained by logic, but with inductive you have a little problem. Namely, "is/ought" problem presented by William of Ockham.
If you'd like to save yourselves some time, start from this point. You'll finish quickly [rofl] [tongue]
If you mean medicine, that shit's solid. Physics? Most of it. But sociology, pedagogy, and other humanies? For god's sakes no
What's the difference? Deductive and inductive reasoning. Deductive can be explained by logic, but with inductive you have a little problem. Namely, "is/ought" problem presented by William of Ockham.
If you'd like to save yourselves some time, start from this point. You'll finish quickly [rofl] [tongue]
Re: Can Occult be as Solid as Science?
What I meant by Solidity was, you know it made an evokation in my mind. I am not going to define Solidity or Science. But what I meant with "Science is solid." was that Science doesnt contradict with logic but Occult does. Science can be prooven but Spirits cannot be or supernatural powers in Occult. And Science is reaching the future while Occult is stuck in the past. This is what I am stating.
There is no Lucifer to folow, no God to obey
There is no Hell for punishment, no Heaven for reward
There are no Demons to fear, no Angels to listen
There is you and your fate
Wake up Alice
You are in Truthland.
There is no Hell for punishment, no Heaven for reward
There are no Demons to fear, no Angels to listen
There is you and your fate
Wake up Alice
You are in Truthland.
Re: Can Occult be as Solid as Science?
No because I cannot read your mind. I am sorry but I am a mere mortal who does not have superpowers.Atzmuth wrote:What I meant by Solidity was, you know it made an evokation in my mind. .
That makes it difficult to make a solid discussion.I am not going to define Solidity or Science.
That is not true. Logic is a preset of implications set by somebody/someone. If something does not meet this implications it is not logical. This applies to every science, be it philosophy, the natural sciences as well as mathematics, business sciences and of course occult systems as well.was that Science doesnt contradict with logic but Occult does.
Yes... in the system set by its own parameters. Natural sciences (I guess this is what you refer to as "science") is mostly bound to matter and matter-energy-interaction. Everything beyond that is another matter and difficult to grasp from natural scientific perspective.Science can be prooven
And then there is of course the whole hypothetical part. And, let me remind you, a proof is not automatically a fact.
I cannot follow your thought. What are "supernatural" powers?supernatural powers in Occult
The development caused by names like Crowley, Hine, Lewi, Blavatsky and many others should tell you that I strongly disagree with you. I again suggest that you take your history lessons in occult matters first before proposing such obvious nonsense.And Science is reaching the future while Occult is stuck in the past.
Ramscha
bye bye
Re: Can Occult be as Solid as Science?
First of all, there are lot of 'sciences' so to speak of. You're not referring specifically to medicine, chemistry, physics or math. The same goes with occult. Everything is very generalized in your posts. If you say 'occult' is stuck in past then clearly, you're mistaking occult for a religion of some sorts (which it isn't).Atzmuth wrote:What I meant by Solidity was, you know it made an evokation in my mind. I am not going to define Solidity or Science. But what I meant with "Science is solid." was that Science doesnt contradict with logic but Occult does. Science can be prooven but Spirits cannot be or supernatural powers in Occult. And Science is reaching the future while Occult is stuck in the past. This is what I am stating.
But ok, for the sake of argument. You say science is solid, and you tried to explain what you mean by that. When you say science is solid, you say you can give me numbers. Measures for something, right? You can (or scientists) repeat a certain experiment in lab to prove it works/doesn't work. This and much more leads to your thinking that 'science can be proven' and that 'science is solid'. You can even share some links using huge database of internet to prove your point, right?
So, can you tell me, from science viewpoint, what is consciousness?
Re: Can Occult be as Solid as Science?
What do you mean? Occult is itself defined "the knowledge of paranormal". Did you eat your mind??? Of course Occult is the study of paranormal powers. And I am really bored to repeat it again. What Crowley did was to contribute a new view from his point of view. He didnt change any ritual method in Occult. He just added a new point of view, He made his own Philosophy. If you name this as progression then anyone who adds a new point of view makes Occult progress? Thats funny becouse It is not progress it is being cumulated.I cannot follow your thought. What are "supernatural" powers?
There is no Lucifer to folow, no God to obey
There is no Hell for punishment, no Heaven for reward
There are no Demons to fear, no Angels to listen
There is you and your fate
Wake up Alice
You are in Truthland.
There is no Hell for punishment, no Heaven for reward
There are no Demons to fear, no Angels to listen
There is you and your fate
Wake up Alice
You are in Truthland.
Re: Can Occult be as Solid as Science?
No, the occult is simply the knowledge of the hidden. The root was "occultus" from latin, if I am not mistaken, meaning "hidden" or "in secret". It is a term used for a whole bunch of different systems.Atzmuth wrote:What do you mean? Occult is itself defined "the knowledge of paranormal". Did you eat your mind??? Of course Occult is the study of paranormal powers. And I am really bored to repeat it again. What Crowley did was to contribute a new view from his point of view. He didnt change any ritual method in Occult. He just added a new point of view, He made his own Philosophy. If you name this as progression then anyone who adds a new point of view makes Occult progress? Thats funny becouse It is not progress it is being cumulated.I cannot follow your thought. What are "supernatural" powers?
http://www.latin-dictionary.net/search/latin/occultus
Nothing regarding "supernatural" or "paranormal".
It might be easier if I clearify why I am so strongly opposed to those phrases: The thing is, I regard everything, each thing in existence which can be experienced by an individual as a part of nature. It is part of one cosmos, one closed system, one existence. It does not matter if you need to get into sleep to experience dreams or need to drink wine to experience being drunk, it is still natural, nothing exceptional about it.
Anyway, I am still waiting for your breaching illumination why you thing "science" (whatever you mean specifically by that term) is the most badass thing on this world while the occult stuff is like the old granny sitting mumbling in her dark corner...
It seems to me like we are stumbling into secondary theatres of war here to avoid painful discussions about the OP-topic. And generalizations in an absurd mess like my poster above already mentioned.
Ramscha
bye bye
- manonthepath
- Benefactor
- Posts: 630
- Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 4:36 pm
Re: Can Occult be as Solid as Science?
Then why are you a member of this forum?Atzmuth wrote:What I meant by Solidity was, you know it made an evokation in my mind. I am not going to define Solidity or Science. But what I meant with "Science is solid." was that Science doesnt contradict with logic but Occult does. Science can be prooven but Spirits cannot be or supernatural powers in Occult. And Science is reaching the future while Occult is stuck in the past. This is what I am stating.
Re: Can Occult be as Solid as Science?
Becouse there is something in Occult that attracts me. And I dont know what is that?Then why are you a member of this forum?
There is no Lucifer to folow, no God to obey
There is no Hell for punishment, no Heaven for reward
There are no Demons to fear, no Angels to listen
There is you and your fate
Wake up Alice
You are in Truthland.
There is no Hell for punishment, no Heaven for reward
There are no Demons to fear, no Angels to listen
There is you and your fate
Wake up Alice
You are in Truthland.
- manonthepath
- Benefactor
- Posts: 630
- Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 4:36 pm
Re: Can Occult be as Solid as Science?
You need to look within yourself to find your answers. You try to convince others about thing that you're confused about. Take a deep breathe and grow. Remember! Your life is about YOU, not others or what others think. The whole world can be wrong and that's okay. You need to worry about YOU!